Is this the end for ID cards? [Archive]

View Full Version : Is this the end for ID cards?

InsaneApache

11-20-2007, 21:20

FactionHeir

11-20-2007, 21:38

Always nice of the government to provide a 0845 number when they lose your data and you rightfully want to know more about it.

Pannonian

11-20-2007, 22:37

As Ollie used to say "Another fine mess......".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7103566.stm

What do you expect when you have a combination of Inspector Clueso and the Keystone Cops running the country?

I'm really reassured that the government can keep my particulars secure on the ID card issue. Errr...no I'm not! This bunch of tossers couldn't run a whelk stall.

It's fascinating watching the slow train wreck called the McBroon government meander on. If they carry on like this Labour will be out on it's ear for another twenty years, and deservedly so.
Erm, how is this particular debacle the fault of the elected government, rather than a civil servant who'd be doing his job whatever party was in power? Would a Tory government have meant that this particular idiot would have observed proicedures any more than he did here?

InsaneApache

11-20-2007, 22:39

Erm, how is this particular debacle the fault of the elected government, rather than a civil servant who'd be doing his job whatever party was in power? Would a Tory government have meant that this particular idiot would have observed proicedures any more than he did here?

One word. Brown.

Geoffrey S

11-20-2007, 22:40

Not perhaps the fault of elected government, but it doesn't reflect well on the system required for ID card policies to be established fully, which would be rather more extensive with a greater risk for (damaging) mistakes.

Papewaio

11-21-2007, 00:41

Sounds like a problem with the civil service and at the junior end of the scale.

Procedures for transferring data should be more stringent. If it was on CDs couldn't they have just used a secure WAN connection or if it was that important and had to travel then armoured car (after all it has the bank account details for upto 7 million people).

macsen rufus

11-21-2007, 10:36

Quite, I don't see how changing the govt would make any difference whatsoever here - it's a desk-jockey who wasn't working to procedure. I can't really see anyone going to work and thinking "Hmm, goodie, we have a Tory administration, I'll stop being lazy and start following my job description now..."

So, IA, as far as "It's all Brown's fault" goes, then I say b****x! But when it comes to the initial title - I quite agree it's a terrible portent for ID cards (yippee :2thumbsup: )

But I'm sure glad I'm not on those discs, and fingers crossed for those who are...

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

11-21-2007, 12:05

Well:

1) Brown is a notorious control freak.

2) The Tories are against ID cards anyway.

InsaneApache

11-21-2007, 12:07

So, IA, as far as "It's all Brown's fault" goes, then I say b****x! But when it comes to the initial title - I quite agree it's a terrible portent for ID cards (yippee :2thumbsup: )

But I'm sure glad I'm not on those discs, and fingers crossed for those who are...

His fingerprints are all over it. He was the man who merged the two departments for efficiency. This isn't the first time this has happened, in fact it's the fourth.

It seems the hallmark of Mc Broons' administration is incompetence and deception. What was he doing for 10 years? He doesn't seem to have a clue what's going on or what to do.

Pannonian

11-21-2007, 12:37

His fingerprints are all over it. He was the man who merged the two departments for efficiency. This isn't the first time this has happened, in fact it's the fourth.

It seems the hallmark of Mc Broons' administration is incompetence and deception. What was he doing for 10 years? He doesn't seem to have a clue what's going on or what to do.
I don't see much of an argument here, beyond "It's quite typical of Brown that this should happen under him". Was this error due to strains brought on by merging the departments? Was it down to anything else that the elected government has done?

IA, if it rained continuously for the next 3 months you'd blame Brown for causing the bad weather.

Pharnakes

11-21-2007, 12:48

Always nice of the government to provide a 0845 number when they lose your data and you rightfully want to know more about it.

OT I know, but this (http://www.saynoto0870.com/)is a nice site for cheapskates like myself :wink:

Kaidonni

11-21-2007, 13:17

Well, when our government/civil service/whatever loses the records of over 25,000,000 benefit claimants, you know you don't want ID Cards. That thing just SHOULD NOT happen. There isn't even a 'sh*t happens* clause in this - it isn't acceptable at all. Otherwise, terrorists getting their hands on nukes while the USA is over-seeing the whole operation would have to be acceptable, and it isn't (and Jack Bauer would effectively remove the kneecaps of the guilty, incompetent overseers too :laugh4:...Jack! We need you now! :help:). So, would I trust anyone in our civil service or government with my data, with ID cards, or DNA? No.

The whole ID card thing to stop terrorism was a farce anyway. It didn't stop it in Spain. And I'm assuming to get an ID card, you have to prove who you are in the first place...so, er, I'm assuming it wouldn't be hard for terrorists to get them, then. There's this thing called deception...don't know if our government have heard of it (they do it all the time, but not very well, seemingly...). So, ID cards would be useless...the only way they could be of any use would be if the moment you applied, you were found out to be a terrorist - and then, it'd still be pointless because...why don't they just run those checks normally, instead of on such a special occasion? Would they really need to waste billions on a piece of paper when they could find the bad guys out without all that malarky?

I mean, the whole having to prove who you are to get an ID in the first place...LOL...if someone can get one, then there's NOTHING stopping them from committing a terrorist attack. They got the ID...so, this system is useless anyway. Anyway, like I said...one word - Spain.

Husar

11-21-2007, 14:52

I don't really see the connection to ID cards, there's no bank information on my ID card and to give me benefits the government will still need to store my bank details even if I have no ID card. :dizzy2:
What I do find weird are:
1. electronic ID cards
2. that bank accounts can be charged without a proper PIN, TAN or written allowance from the account owner, makes you wonder why I, being the owner of the account have to type in all that stuff while criminals can just go and say "hey, give us money" and get it :dizzy2:
3. if 2 isn't as I said then why are people worried about losing money?
4. 3 does not mean that I'd like criminals to have all my data
5. I'm in the telephone book, who is not? :clown:

Kaidonni

11-21-2007, 16:35

What I meant was, would you trust the same establishment with running an ID card scheme if they screw up so monumentally as to lose the records of 25m benefit claimants, while blatantly violating the Data Protection Act? You just don't violate it unless it's either deliberate, or you need shooting, and everyone who employed you the same. A real business would go under and be ripped apart, the managers and other high-up individuals finding their butts on a platter in front of a very serious, unimpressed judge (well...not in the UK, maybe a country with judges who aren't idiots who hand out lenient sentences to murderers, rapists, etc etc...and proceed to harp on about the Human Rights of the criminals).

In days past, those guilty would have been lined up against the wall and shot at dawn by firing squad, or tortured in the most horific way and then executed...:laugh4::2thumbsup:

macsen rufus

11-21-2007, 17:04

5. I'm in the telephone book, who is not?

Me, for one... ~D

Husar

11-21-2007, 18:50

In days past, those guilty would have been lined up against the wall and shot at dawn by firing squad, or tortured in the most horific way and then executed...:laugh4::2thumbsup:
In days past you might have had a hard time finding 25 million people in Britain or trying to get a medium to hold all that data that didn't require several trucks to transport around. :sweatdrop:
Maybe they'll soon save the data on disks that are so small they're invisible that will certainly help since the bad guys won't even see it lying around. :dizzy2:

Me, for one... ~D
I knew there would be at least one, I have a few more suspects but in the end it's a matter of preference, if you hate the bureaucracy and the state and some companies having your data for this and that, there are always those good old ways of handling government and stuff as practised in certain third world countries where noone really cares whether or not you exist, much less what you bank data is. :sweatdrop:

Ronin

11-21-2007, 22:51

Papewaio

11-22-2007, 07:22

Rule of Blame:
Never assign maliciousness where stupidity will do.

Rule of Bureaucracy:
Never hire a burecrat who isn't stupid.

AntiochusIII

11-22-2007, 07:41

Rule of Blame:
Never assign maliciousness where stupidity will do.

Rule of Bureaucracy:
Never hire a burecrat who isn't stupid.Unfortunately stupidity is dangerous...and very much exploitable by malice. :dizzy2:

English assassin

11-25-2007, 16:49

Sounds like a problem with the civil service and at the junior end of the scale.

Nope http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article2937217.ece

REVENUE officials have been routinely posting out people’s confidential data in bulk and without proper security, a Sunday Times investigation has found. It undermines Gordon Brown’s claim that the loss of 25m child benefit records was the fault of a lone junior official.

The prime minister last week blamed the junior civil servant for the loss of two computer discs containing the personal and financial details of the claimants. He said they had been posted out in a clear breach of rules that all sensitive data in transit should be encrypted.

Revenue officials have admitted that similar personal data for hundreds of thousands of people have routinely been put on CD and sent by post without encryption. The practice has now been quietly stopped.

As for why this is Brown's fault, that would be merging the depts and demanding big cost savings. According to the media the reason the entite database was sent, when the NAO had only asked for NI numbers, was that it would have been too expensive to strip out the rest of the data.

Sounds to me like government underresourcing made the debacle possible, at a minimum.

A real business would go under and be ripped apart

This is what is twisting my nipples. If I lost the data of all of my clients, my firm would go bust. No question. Just another instance of how its one rule fopr those of us that actually make UK PLCs money, and another rule for the bloated parasites who feed on it.

Slug For A Butt

11-25-2007, 19:33

This is a governmental failure, did anyone ever buy that crap Brown sold us about a 23 yr old junior being the guy responsible And now it has been proved that more senior officials were involved, great to see Browns new open, cross party, honest politics are in full swing. Brown and Blair invented this New Labour experiment between them, why does anybody think anything is going to change just because 50% of the crooks have gone to pasture?
I'm one of the few people in this country that can be proud to say that i was never fooled and never voted for them.
Not much consolation on a day to day basis. I still pay their stealth taxes, live under their fascism and listen to their spin, but at least I'm not responsible.

InsaneApache

11-25-2007, 19:40

I'm one of the few people in this country that can be proud to say that i was never fooled and never voted for them.

Well they had me hook line and sinker. :laugh4:

Tart

11-25-2007, 23:20

I'm one of the few people in this country that can be proud to say that i was never fooled and never voted for them.

They had me in 97 when I wanted the other crooks out, but I believed the whole 'Things Can Only Get Better' mantra. In recent years I've felt like sending back the TCOGB video the Labour Party sent me with a note attached asking 'WTF happened?'

This is just another event to add to all the other examples of startling incompetence we've seen over the last 10 sorry years. *sigh*

Louis VI the Fat

11-26-2007, 01:50

This is a governmental failure, did anyone ever buy that crap Brown sold us about a 23 yr old junior being the guy responsible.Ministers are responsible. That is the whole point of a democracy. You can kick hold them responsible and kick them out.

If a 23 yr old junior manages to wreak this much havoc, the people who entrusted a 23 yr old junior with the power to do so are responsible.

I think InsaneApache's description in his opening post about the physical hobbies of the cabinet members involved is correct. ~;)

macsen rufus

11-26-2007, 18:56

Well, I've been convinced the error goes further up the tree than I initially thought :oops:

Still, I too take solace that I never welcomed our New Octosquid Overlords at the ballot box. Didn't do any bleeding good though, did it?

But appalling bureaucratic blunders brought about by government cost-cutting? That other Mr Blair (you know, Eric) had a line or two about that: "And they looked from the men to the pigs and back again, and could no longer tell the difference."

InsaneApache

11-26-2007, 19:25

It pains me to say it.

but....

I told you so! :wink:

Slug For A Butt

11-27-2007, 21:04

And now we hear that the Government has been taking illegal funding, Gordon Brown has said sorry and we will pay it back.
Isn't that like a burglar robbing your house and then saying I'll give it back because I've been caught? Does that make him innocent? NO!
Why should the Labour party be treat any different. This shower of shit are no less corrupt than the party they followed (worse I'd say).
Instead of "Things Can Only Get Better" shouldn't we all be singing "We Don't Get Fooled Again"?

Give me the Conservatives every day of the week because at least the taxes were lower.

InsaneApache

11-27-2007, 21:19

And now we hear that the Government has been taking illegal funding, Gordon Brown has said sorry and we will pay it back.
Isn't that like a burglar robbing your house and then saying I'll give it back because I've been caught? Does that make him innocent? NO!
Why should the Labour party be treat any different. This shower of shit are no less corrupt than the party they followed (worse I'd say).
Instead of "Things Can Only Get Better" shouldn't we all be singing "We wont get fooled again (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6-wG5LLqE)"?

Give me the Conservatives every day of the week because at least the taxes were lower.

Fixed it for you me old Tyke compatriot. :wink:

PS I'd forgotten what an awe it is to watch Entwhistle on the ol' four string. :bow:

Slug For A Butt

11-27-2007, 21:24

Ta for that mate. :balloon2: