Armour Upgrades

[mir]

Can someone explain how armour upgrades work?

When I right-click on them, some of my units have a line saying "Next armour upgrade: Splint Mail". Does this mean thay can only upgrade to that level and no further?

For example:

If I send my Peasants to an Armour Factory, they will only be upgraded to the next level of armour, e.g. padded (bronze shield icon) but not all the way to heavy mail (gold shield icon)?

(Sorry, everyone, I can't remember the exact stats and names of the armour etc.)

[Shahed]

Yeap that's right. There's a max armor level for each unit e.g peasants can only upgrade to padded armor. Different units have different levels e.g Gothich Knights can go Gothic Plate (the best armor), English KNights can go Full Plate, Sipahi can go heavy mail, Turcomen => Light Mail, Janissary Archers => Heavy Mail(or was it light?)... and so on. I think the armor upgrades are in one of the stickies. Bottom line is whatever they can upgrade to , it's usually worth it. Try a custom battle Padded Peasants vs Longbows, and then another one normal Peasants vs Longbows. You'll see the difference.

[DVX BELLORVM]

When I right-click on them, some of my units have a line saying "Next armour upgrade: Splint Mail". Does this mean thay can only upgrade to that level and no further?


That depends on a unit. Some of them can be upgraded more times (max 3 upgrades). The text you are refering to shows only the next upgrade, not the maximum that can be reached.

As sinan said, the armor upgrade does make a difference.
For example, unupgraded spear militia is pretty much worthless, but with three upgrades (up to the heavy mail), they become a very useful, especially early on.

[Shahed]

Thanks DVX, had forgotten to mention next upgrade level clearly. Though I thought I was trying to mumble something along those lines. (lol)

[Guru]

It's a shame I cant upgrade my peasants to have gothic armour...

[Shahed]

Truly a disaster. ;)

You know what was funny in MTW: VI, I'd have those peasants running around in gold armor. BUHAHAHA !!!

[phonicsmonkey]

Plus they look much cooler on the battle map when they're armoured-up

[mir]

Plus they look much cooler on the battle map when they're armoured-up

Phonicsmonkey, you mean the graphics in battle actually change to represent their armour?

If so, wow! That's brilliant!

But imagine if we *could* upgrade Peasants to wear Advanced Plate, and hence on the battlefield, you'd see a square of armoured knights instead of grubby peasants with pithforks and sickles. Hahaha!

Thanks for the info Sinan and DVX - so we can only upgrade each unit a certain number of times... Hmmm.

Which begs the question - what do the Shield icons on a unit represent? Bronze, Silver and Gold right? So this refers to the number of times they've been upgraded? E.g. Bronze for first level, Silver for second?

As opposed to each Shield representing a specific type of armour. E.g. Bronze for Chainmail, Silver for Splint Mail?

[phonicsmonkey]

Phonicsmonkey, you mean the graphics in battle actually change to represent their armour?

Yep - although some units are bugged. For example, out-of-the-box Venetian archers wear full plate on the battle map, but upgrade them once and they revert to light chain...

[Guru]

Which begs the question - what do the Shield icons on a unit represent? Bronze, Silver and Gold right? So this refers to the number of times they've been upgraded? E.g. Bronze for first level, Silver for second?

As opposed to each Shield representing a specific type of armour. E.g. Bronze for Chainmail, Silver for Splint Mail?

Yeep, the shields tell how many times the armour has been upgraded. Upgrading feudal knights to partial plate will get them the bronze shield icon. The same goes for peasants, for example, but for padded leather armour. Thus only the units that can be upgraded three times can reach the gold shield.
If I remember correctly some units also "skip" armour upgrades and go from light mail straight to plate etc. An unit which starts with no armour could have heavy mail or full plate after its been upgraded three times.
Someone correct me if I got something wrong here..

- Guru

[Flavius Merobaudes]

You're correct GURU, some late era units skip the padded leather upgrade, for example musketeers or tercio pikemen. It's no armour -> breast plate -> half plate for them.
To make things even more complicated, late era units get other upgrades than early units. This is to reflect technological advances that took place, but their armour value is the same. Breast plate is armour level 2 and half plate is level 4 - when no armour is level 0.
The battle model is broken for retinue longbows, too. They start with heavy mail, then go back to leather and light mail. You can repair this in the EDU by simply changing their order in the battle_model line.

[DVX BELLORVM]

some late era units skip the padded leather upgrade, for example musketeers or tercio pikemen. It's no armour -> breast plate -> half plate for them.
Funny, I never noticed this before. Do you know if any other unit has such a non-linear upgrade?


phonicsmonkey and Flavius Merobaudes, are the bugs you mentioned only graphical, or does it also reflect in the unit's stats?

[Flavius Merobaudes]

I'm not sure about other units. Probably there are some.

I think the bug is only graphical, at least I haven't noticed any impact on unit performance.

[Shahed]

That's only graphical. The numbers for armor simply represent the armor status i.e padded, light mail, heavy mail, etc.. The number does not represent absolute armor value like it used to in MTW:VI.

I'm playing a Turkish campaign in Darth Mod: The Last Episode, in this the armor upgrades look better. Darth has changed swapped some of the skins, gives some variety.

[DVX BELLORVM]

That's only graphical. The numbers for armor simply represent the armor status i.e padded, light mail, heavy mail, etc.. The number does not represent absolute armor value like it used to in MTW:VI.


Yes, that's another "issue" in M2TW. It took me a long time to realize that padded armor actually gives +4, not +1 armor, as stated in the unit description. This fact makes the leather tanner my top priority military building early in campaign.

[Shahed]

I remember in the beginning everyone thought that. Yeap, I go for leather tanner early as well, but I focus on getting the units first then the tanner. What this does is it allows the units to march and gain exp, then they go back and rearmor. Could be done the other way also e.g before building stables (Turks), you build the leather tanner, then you get HA with padded armor right from the start which improves their survivability. I guess what's best depends on the situation, in Darth Mod you actually do have to race for creating a firm empire in the first 15 turns, because if you don't the other nations usually do and take settlements which come under your sphere. If there's no rush it's better to build the tanner before the unit production building.

[Flavius Merobaudes]

With Kingdoms and the retrofit mod the leather tanner gives only +2. It continues 3, 5, 6, 7, 8. All units fit to this scheme. So there are larger steps from (no armour -> padded/leather) and (light mail -> heavy mail).
So the maximum available armour is (armour level 6, advanced full-plate, protection rating 8). This applies to upgraded Famiglia Ducale or upgraded Broken Lances.
The only unit that does not fit in is the Lancers - they've got 9 armour protection. Upgraded Famiglia Ducale already has the stylish renaissance armour, so what do they have? It seems as if the French had discovered some early form of Chobham armour.:inquisitive:

[DVX BELLORVM]

That's right, Kingdoms lowered the armor stats (-2), and raised defensive skill and shield values.

I also noticed that some units have stronger advanced plate then the rest (French and Spanish Gendarmes, Lancers...). Maybe the French have some technological advances that enable them to produce better armor ~D

[Anonymous II]

So, is there a file where I can check out what is the highest level of armour? Or do I have to learn by playing? By just seeing next level and not highest level, I don't know how many times the particular unit can be upgraded.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

So, is there a file where I can check out what is the highest level of armour? Or do I have to learn by playing? By just seeing next level and not highest level, I don't know how many times the particular unit can be upgraded.

EDU = export_descr_units. You can read the starting armor and the amor upgrades.

[mir]

Thanks again for the input and feedback everyone!

To re-confirm graphics-wise:

I zoomed into a battle where I had several units of Sipahi, some with and some without armour upgrades. The Sipahi with the upgrade can be visibly distinguished from their unarmoured counterparts - they are wearing chainmail armour. The poor luckless unarmoured Sipahi only have their leather vests (but are still able to look cool!). :2thumbsup:

[Shahed]

Wait till you play France, Britain or HRE. They have really done a good job on those skins, specially the later units with awesome armor detail. The Broken Crescent mod will much much improve the Eastern factions skins. It will be about 600-700 Megs download btw, just letting you know as I rememeber about your net connection. Disgruntled Goats Byzantine textures are really GREAT as well, also available at twcenter.net. Stainless Steel has a also done a great job on Western armor.

EDIT: Screen from Broken Crescent.

Image courtesy of AlphaDelta (twcenter)http://brokencrescent.com/Images/khwarezm/khwarezm_vs_ghazni_02.jpg