Building *Academic* short debate

[Maksimus]

First of all .. I have been very, very, very, disapointed when I found out that academic building's have no law, trade, moral, population or other bonuses at all... :whip: As for me, Academies were always engines of the development and a large armiy and empire could not ever do much epic without them (or people that went through it, like engineer's, generals, historians or geographers, or agriculturalist's or cartographers... all these educated people in one city - make a city better, safer, wealthier and biger place to live in ) .. In EB - There is no use of Academy in the game as it is.. they should have bonuses on law, trade, mining, army and health ... especially it should make people happy..

Ok..

This is the part in exp_descr_buildings.txt where academic building's are represented
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
}
building academic
{
levels academy scriptorium ludus_magnus
{
academy requires factions { romans_brutii, egypt, romans_scipii, carthage, parthia, numidia, thrace, greek_cities, macedon, romans_julii, seleucid, britons, gauls, scythia, saba, } and building_present_min_level market market and building_present_min_level government gov4
{
capability
{
}
construction 6
cost 3200
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
scriptorium
}
}
scriptorium requires factions { romans_brutii, egypt, romans_scipii, carthage, parthia, numidia, thrace, greek_cities, macedon, romans_julii, seleucid, britons, gauls, scythia, saba, } and building_present_min_level market forum and building_present_min_level government gov3
{
capability
{
}
construction 10
cost 6400
settlement_min large_town
upgrades
{
ludus_magnus
}
}
ludus_magnus requires factions { romans_brutii, egypt, romans_scipii, carthage, parthia, numidia, thrace, greek_cities, macedon, romans_julii, seleucid, britons, gauls, scythia, } and building_present_min_level market forum and building_present_min_level government gov2
{
capability
{
}
construction 12
cost 12800
settlement_min city
upgrades
{
}
}
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
My.. question .. as it is empty .. Is there a plan to make some bonusses for 1.1?? And is this so (--no bonuses for academy--) just that the Barbs would not be underpowerd?? Or is it something else.. For me, and I am sure for all of us with University dergee - academic value is quite clear.. And as far as the army -- the impact of academy on millitray research and development is quite big .. so.. what du you think?

[konny]

When you leave a young character (in particular someone who is considered to be "sharp") for two or more years in a city with academy and he is not the govenor, you'll see what they are good for....


For my Hellenic youngbloods the programm is:

4 years Agoge in Sparta (16 to 20)
4 years study in Athens (20 to 24)
6 years military service or administrative service in a smaller settlement (24 to 30)

Most of them are really allround talents after that.

[Maksimus]

Yes.. but one character can not represent the 'maga' impact of one academy or school in one city or town.. The fact that academy gives nice traits to some generals does not mean that that is the only role it plays in a settlement.. If one academy can redone some bad and very negative traits for a governor - it should be good.. But we know that it is very less likely (and even if it's not - it makes no bariers for adding as much as possible bonusses to academic buildings)

[tapanojum]

When you leave a young character (in particular someone who is considered to be "sharp") for two or more years in a city with academy and he is not the govenor, you'll see what they are good for....


For my Hellenic youngbloods the programm is:

4 years Agoge in Sparta (16 to 20)
4 years study in Athens (20 to 24)
6 years military service or administrative service in a smaller settlement (24 to 30)

Most of them are really allround talents after that.

Looks like you got things pretty much worked out there

[Pharnakes]

Acadamies are fine as they are. Maybe 5-10% law for the maximum level, but no more than that is really needed. Afterall, they were very exculisve instatutions.

[konny]

Yes.. but one character can not represent the 'maga' impact of one academy or school in one city or town..

The question is, did an academy really have any impact on the town itself? Who did attend it? I think, only the nobility had the means to do so. And if you make it a rule that every young character has at least to stay two years in a town with an academy, the building will have a hughe positive effect on your entire empire.

Factions that are able to build academies usually also have large access to other law/happiness buildings, that I don't see an urgent need to upgrade the academy in that direction.

[TWFanatic]

I used to get all kinds of ancillaries from the academy. But now, all the sudden, it seems to have gone dry.

Good system Konny. Mine is similar, except after they finish studying in Athens, they're sent strait to govern a settlement if they're best as administrators or receive a secondary command position if they're best as military commanders. As the governors improve, they get to move to bigger and bigger settlements, and as the commanders improve, they get to command larger and larger armies (as the overall commander). If I get an utter idiot who is good for nothing, I'll usually send him to the front line for the most dangerous tasks.

I have one idiot who, after decades of risking his neck, has a 9 exp bodyguard and many morale-increasing traits (including "Famously Courageous"). He just wouldn't die, and now his bodyguard unit is pretty much the best military force in the known world.:whip: Oh the irony.

[mcantu]

The law bonuses for academy buildings was mistakenly left out of RTW1.5 by CA (its in the release notes though). There is a post on the RTW forums telling how to add it in.

Most mods have included the law bonus but EB for some reason chose not to...

[J.Alco]

When you leave a young character (in particular someone who is considered to be "sharp") for two or more years in a city with academy and he is not the govenor, you'll see what they are good for....


For my Hellenic youngbloods the programm is:

4 years Agoge in Sparta (16 to 20)
4 years study in Athens (20 to 24)
6 years military service or administrative service in a smaller settlement (24 to 30)

Most of them are really allround talents after that.


That's actually a really good system. Is there any equivalent anyone can recommend for a Romani player?

[konny]

That's actually a really good system. Is there any equivalent anyone can recommend for a Romani player?

With the Romans I use

4 years of academy (Rome and later often Athens)
10 years of puplic service (that is either as legate in a smaller provincial settlement or military service)



Mine is similar, except after they finish studying in Athens, they're sent strait to govern a settlement if they're best as administrators or receive a secondary command position if they're best as military commanders.

In fact the military service for them is 10 years, from 20 to 30. That means they can be called to arms when still on the academy or when governing a smaller settlement. I do try to limit it to characters that have finished studies and that have been "mustered fit" for military service (no reduced hitpoints, no bad traits concerning troop moral). Administrative geniusses are sometimes exemted when a larger Polis needs a governor that is missing a real leader, for example no one with the appropiate ethnicty is available.

[Callicles]

Also, avoid putting someone less than 35 in command of a legion. Instead, they should serve as military tribunes - manning a guard post in the alps, leading few cohorts against rebels, or leading the cavalry of a legion that is commanded by a consul or senior legate.

Because Rome and other republican/citizen focused factions have citizen armies, the officers should have "careers." Compare with the "Royal" factions, like Makedon, Epeiros, Pontos, or Armenia. There, the Princes lead "household cavalry" in a manner similar to medieval knights. This creates a much less-professional career. Instead, the family members sit around in the capital creating the Royal Court, unless given a specific task by the King.

Compare then with the Barbarian factions. The family members represent small tribal chieftains occasionally brought together for long and large raids by influential warlords.

When playing as the Koinon Hellenon, the family members should be "roleplayed" to further the interest of their polis. Lakedaimonians stay in Sparta, Athenians stay in Athens, and Rhodesians stay in Rhodes, etc.

In conclusion, Romans/Carthaginians should have professional careers. Royal Knights should have "courtly" assignments through which they seek to gain the favor of their King. Chieftains seek personal glory through raiding and pillaging. Hellenes seek the maximize the status and influence of their polis.

Of course, this is just the general rule. Events or characters may create circumstances where other arrangements are demanded (e.g., one of my most enjoyable Roman campaigns involved losing a series of battles and being forced to evacuate Italy; a new "Latin Royal Government" sprung up on the Balearic Islands eventually with colonies on the eastern shore of Iberia).

[konny]

For a faction like the Sweboz you can use the traits that indicate personal bravery/high fighting skills as an indicator for their position in the (noble) society of their tribe: experince of the bodyguard, the "brave" traits, additional hitpoints etc. I would do the same for the Nomads and to find a new governor for Sparte.

With the Makedonians I had used plus in troop moral as an indicator for their popularity within the army, that had let in some cases to a character different from the natural heir as next king (beeing a decedent of Alexander the Great was still required).

For Greek cities others than Sparta I also use the accumulated minus in unrest and plus in trade to find the character that is most supported both by the people and by the ruling class of their Polis.


But in any case, influence is most important (that give the laurells a "job" after all).

[tapanojum]

My poor Armenia, so far only a few cities conquered defending myself against hordes of Gray Death. I managed to build a school quite early in my capital and have been putting all the young ones through a few years of that and then having them either govern nearby settlements or leading the near suicidal defenses/raids on gray death.

Makes or breaks a man really!