Archers and Spearmen

[hach]

Just wondering what everyones preferred relationship is between these 2 units when using them?

Archers in front or behind the Spearmen?

I prefer the Spears behind as this allows my Archers to fire Sooner as the enemy comes in Range.

Also if i did it the other way round then his Archers could Pepper my Spearmen and get no reply as my own Archers would be out of Range.

This also still allows me to charge my Spearmen/Melee units thru my Archers when the enemy attack.

Argued with someone Online the other day who preferred his Spears in front of the Archers to protect them.

So my argument is

Can fire sooner.
Means my H2H units are protected from enemy missile fire.
My H2H units can charge thru my Archers to protect them if needs be.

Thanks

[Kraxis]

You can also argue that by having spears behind your archers they will not recieve much fire and thus you don't lose much melee power. As opposed to the enemy on who I suppose you target his expensive units. I too have my archers in front, though at times I have them behind the Spears. If the incline is great then it is better I think.

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

[oZoNeLaYeR]

I like my spears in front, but if i hold the high ground, archers are in front.

depends on situation as well. u dont want u archers get charged by those knights

[Oda Matsu]

Why not put the archers in front, but leave them on skirmish? That way, the archers retreat through the spears automatically.

Personally, I put my archers in front, and have them "stand fast". Archers behind tear up my spear line - although if I'm weak on melee units/strong on missiles I sometimes double up my archer line, and put a single rank (thin and long) sword or spear unit between them. When the enemy approaches too close I charge that thin line forward to pin the enemy, and let the archers finish their deadly work.

Especially nice with longbowmen. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Alrowan]

yep, thats what i do, nothing beats the skirmish option, always have my arcers in front, in loose formation for skirmish, when thier knights come, you can use them to screen for your spearmen even, especially when amo is low

[DaCount]

I guess i'm the only one who puts is spears on the side:

S=spear
B=Bow
.=nothing

SSS..BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB..SSS
SSS..BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB..SSS
SSS.......................................SSS
SSS.......................................SSS
SSS.......................................SSS
SSS.......................................SSS
SSS.......................................SSS
SSS.......................................SSS

Now if there is an attack, i can still redirect the spears where neccesary, but mostly they just crush the incoming guys between them by charging to the front (where ofcourse they will widen their formation).

But this is against AI ofcourse, dunno how i would do online http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by DaCount (edited 09-16-2002).]

[Didz]

Spears in front for me.

If the archers are on higher ground they fire farther anyway and so the range difference is negated. Plus the archers don't waste time withdrawing through the spearmen.

The spearmen have better armour and shields and so take fewer casualties from the return fire.

And I put both the spearmen and archers on hold formation and let the enemy come to me.

Any outflanking moves get down by peasants or other expendable units that cause a morale penalty but don't matter if they get drawn out of position.

The spearmen are just there to protect the archers.

[Vanya]

GAH!

Vanya just gets 16 handgunners and charges them down hill into the enemy in wedgies during a rainstorm with lots of lightning and a pair of culvies dropping lead over their heads from behind. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Works like me lucky charms!

GAH!

[Kraxis]

I have so little respect for the normal Archers that infact I sometimes let the Archers soak up charges from heavy infantry (not cavalry), then I send in my spears (others too) and withdraw the Archers.
Normally the Archers will have lost 20 men, but in a mostly melee battle I would rather give 20 Archers for 10 melee men.
Also, this way the Archers normally get that last volley in. It is deadly! I have seen a unit of Archer in three ranks fire only the front rank (they do that at close range) and kill no less than 11 enemy Feudal Sergeants. Almost the same as the total losses they had inflicted on them until then.

------------------
BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

[DrNo]

Quote Originally posted by DaCount:
[B]I guess i'm the only one who puts is spears on the side:

[B][/QUOTE]


Yes it's a very good tatic to pull the enemy in then flank attack. Just have to be careful your timing is right otherwise you are prone to fake attacks if you move too soon. Of course too late and your archers are history.

I think if you did this in MP then your opponent would choose to have his ranged units out wide and target your spearmen, forcing you to move your ranged units further forward to engage or across out of the centre. So you would end up with Spearmen either in front or behind your archers.

[Dionysus9]

There is no hard and fast rule.

If its late in the battle and your archers/arqs/xbows are wavering, throw some infantry in front of them and watch them calm down.

If its early in the battle, I normally keep ranged units out in front. Only when the enemy has a lot of fast cavalry close by will I pull my spears up to the front ranged-line. Skirmish works okay, but against light-cav the archers break too late and get cut up. So If I see a cav charge coming I just order them to run back and spears to run forward. That usually convinces the enemy not to charge afterall.