MTW First Impressions

[Didz]

I’m back, not that I’ve ever been away, I just found I had nothing more to say on STW even though I am still playing it. It’s still my favourite wargame. But last weekend I bought MTW and spent a very frustrating couple of days trying to familiarise myself with the game whilst still doing essential chores (like sleeping). Grrrr!

I had no idea what to expect from MTW but certainly didn’t expect what I got. At first glance it looks like STW and seems to work the same way but I soon realised this was a ‘Red Herring’ and that game play is nothing like STW. As has been said elsewhere on this forum ‘rushing’ doesn’t work and for a while I began to despair of ever getting into battle at all. When you do get into battle that’s different too, armoured units seem to bang away at each other far longer than in STW and there is far more need to micro management. My old tactics of group drag and drop don’t work in MTW and unit formations seem to have far more impact.

Financial management and diplomacy have far more depth in MTW and begin to make your brain ache. Not to mention unmarriageable daughters, deciding whom to make Lord Chancellor and dealing with the General who has just got a taste for young boys. In short there’s too much to think about especially at 2am and its going to take time for me to get my head round all the implications and potential strategies.

Do I have any criticisms?

Yes! I have two so far.

a) I was disappointed that MTW does not come with the little video clips that existed in STW. I know I never watch them anymore but they were great fun when I first got the game and I still haven’t seen some of the Catholic Emissary ones.

b) Sieges: I feel there is a need to make besieging a castle more important than it is at present. At the minute it is too easy just to sit back and starve the enemy out. In STW it wasn’t so important but I think there should be more of an incentive for assaulting a castle in MTW perhaps by having both the besieger and the besieged suffer attrition. That way besiegers would have more incentive to attack and get it over with. After all the English suffered thousands of casualties from disease alone whilst besieging Harfleur.

Minor quibbles really, looking forward to the weekend when I can get back to my English Campaign.


(Hi Obake if your hiding here under a new identity)

[+DOC+]

Hello again Didz.

Many folk have been inquiring about improving the castles and sieging part of the strategy map and as a result we managed to get an official comment from "eat cold steel" of CA...:

Quote Originally posted by eat cold steel:
The castle siege time have been increased for the patch, the number of turn it shows you at the start is an estimate, we have delibratly made the number we give you inaccrucate, the number you get once the siege starts is accurate. Triple their normal upkeep cost sounds like a good idea, that can go in the patch no problem.

Beseiger getting income is a bug.

Attrition requre treaking to the AI and further balancing, add on pack maybe. Destorying building pushed forward to after the siege ends, and no building destory if you assault can be done, but not for the patch.[/QUOTE]

You can read more about it on the thread: http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001481.html


http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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=MizuDoc Otomo=

[This message has been edited by +DOC+ (edited 09-10-2002).]

[NinjaKilla]

Didz I seen your name on the Napoleonic Wargaming Club members list. You still play? I just joined and am getting training in the French army. Great fun!

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)

[Stevie D]

Quote Originally posted by Didz:
b) Sieges: I feel there is a need to make besieging a castle more important than it is at present. At the minute it is too easy just to sit back and starve the enemy out.[/QUOTE]Hi, folks,

This is my first post at these boards, so I await with trepidation the usual mixed barrage of welcomes and accusations of being someone else's multi-login! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I've played my first few hours of MTW and as a STW veteran of many months, I can say it's Medieval cousin is looking and playing superbly.

Didz, if you're a Catholic realm and want to stay on the good side of the Pope, it seems to me that if you want to play aggressively against your Catholic neighbours that you have to plan your campaigns in order that they're fully resolved and it's objectives captured within the two years that His Holiness usually gives you in order to avoid getting excommed.

So my campaign plan goes something like this:

Turn 1: Attack neighbour with massively overwhelming army.

End turn: Pope says, "Oi! Pack it in and get your arse back home!"

Turn 2: Forced to press home seige, trebuchets a-go-go, and capture fortification before Papal dead-line is up.

Admittedly, I haven't tried this strategy out, yet. The last time I attacked France as England, I submitted to the Papal will after he got angry at my sacking Flanders. So, I don't know if the Holy See would give you grief if you've managed to capture the target province lock-stock and barrel.

Steve http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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A fact, alone and tumbling through infospace: without help, it could vanish forever, because only THIS (http://www.koekie.org.uk/funnel/) can make it a News.

[Didz]

Quote Originally posted by NinjaKilla:
Didz I seen your name on the Napoleonic Wargaming Club members list. You still play? I just joined and am getting training in the French army. Great fun!

[/QUOTE]

Hi NinjaKilla,

Yes! Tis I Lt Hatch of the Kings German Legion.

Unfortunately, I have more or less given up with the NWC as the Talonsoft Programs are so open to unhistoric tactical expliotation that I found it almost impossible to get a decent game. I ended up with a set of House Rules that was about three pages long and nobody willing to adhere to them.

The NWHC is much better in terms of realistic play but you have to be willing to accept the decisions of a moderator who makes all your moves for you.

Looking forward the NTW (Napoleonic Total War). That really will be something.

My favourite custom battle in STW was to set up two armies of nothing but musketeers and a few Yari and Heavy Cavalry and fight mock Napoleonic Battles. Just loved all the clouds of musket smoke.

Good luck with your training.

[Didz]

Quote
Didz, if you're a Catholic realm and want to stay on the good side of the Pope, it seems to me that if you want to play aggressively against your Catholic neighbours that you have to plan your campaigns in order that they're fully resolved and it's objectives captured within the two years that His Holiness usually gives you in order to avoid getting excommed.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes! my son warned me about the pope. (He got excommed in his first game.) So I've been treading lightly in my second game (English, Normal) I the Moors had captured most of Spain and I managed a seabourne landing in Leon which was lightly guarded.

Worked great and Leon fell. I was planning to burn, rape and pillage and then jump back on my ships and return to England but suddenly realised I couldn't re-embark because there was no port. Aaaah!

After panicking and praying for divine assistance (e.g. studying the strategy guide) for a few minutes (mostly panicking) I noticed that Castile was completely unguarded and had a large castle. So next year I marched into Castile and captured that narrowly avoiding the Moorish army that descended on Leon.

I burned, raped and pillaged Castile and then next year marched into Navarre meeting up with a relief force from my French Provinces (Aquitain I think). Smashed the Moorish army in Navarre just as the Moors moved to retake the smouldering remains of Castile. I was now about 4,000 florins better off, had saved my army and was feeling pretty cocky. I decided to keep Navarre and made my general the King of Navarre.

Big mistake! Next year the Moors bypassed Navarre and descended upon Aquitain which had been stripped of defenders to provide the relief force. The Duke fought bravely with the small force he had left but the Moors captured the province destroying lots of valuable buildings and cutting my main army off in Navarre. Which was sandwiched between the main Moorish Army in Castile and the invasion force in France.

Ho! Hum! Time to reboot and start again. Hopefully a little bit wiser.

Didz

[NinjaKilla]

Quote Originally posted by Didz:
Unfortunately, I have more or less given up with the NWC as the Talonsoft Programs are so open to unhistoric tactical expliotation that I found it almost impossible to get a decent game[/QUOTE]

I havent played the game much, what do you mean by this?

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)

[Didz]

Quote Originally posted by NinjaKilla:
I havent played the game much, what do you mean by this?

[/QUOTE]

There are numerous aspects of the Talonsoft system that can be exploited by players with more interest in gamesmanship than wargaming.

For instance skirmishers can be explioted to launch SAS style raids on enemy artillery.

Likewise Generals can be used as scouts and Wagons can be used as mobile obsticals to block cavalry charges.

Artillery can fire cannister over the heads of its own troops and infantry can fire through their own skirmishers. (Something that STW and MTW allows but only at the price of freindly casualties)

And thats without getting onto the total lack of understanding within the game mechanism of the subtle tactical factors that make Napoleonic Warfare so unique.

In short if you come from a wargaming background like me the Talonsift system is a constant source of frustration and disappointment.

Personally I'm pinning my hopes on Napoleonic TotalWar in a few years time.

[Soapyfrog]

Napoleonic Total War!! That would be awesome!!

Could probably Mod MTW to get something of the desired effect...

The most important addition would be Square formation (they really should have it anyway... pikeman and spearmen employed all around defence against cavalry in the medieval period as well, a good example was the Scottish schiltrons at Bannockburn). That might be a bit tricky...