the pilum? the wage?

[ross1025]

first question: IIRC,i found pilum's range is shorter than vanilla?

my principes always suffer the enemy's charge from front before they can throw their pilums, but they still manage to throw their pilums out even when they are already in the melee combat with the enemy, and what's confused me most is that their pilums still can cause enemy's casualty but the principes who're suffering the enemy's charge, very few were killed?

is that a bit weird? i think once they come into melee combat, their pilums should not be useful at all, and the front line of principes should be slaughtered if they're still in the throwing action.


another question, what exactly is the "wages" used for? i thought it's only for the client rulers but i still bear more than 2000 wages when i have no client ruler.


thanks in advance!:yes:

[Callicles]

Wages are for all your family members, generals, and client rulers.

[ross1025]

isnt my FM free? as their upkeep's already zero.

and i dont have any generals(= client ruler?) now.

[Pharnakes]

Pilum range has been set to what is (presumably) the histroical range. As to the throwing in melle thing, yes, it looks and is stupid, but it is very deffinetly hard coded, so...

[ross1025]

so ther're almost unhurtable when in the throwing action?


anyway, if the range is historically true, then is the enemy running too fast than historical speed? otherwise how could this happen?


and, whom is the wage sent to?

thanks again~

[BerkeleyBoi]

Actually they can be hurt just as easily when they are throwing as when they are in combat, at least from what I've seen.

[tapanojum]

Wages are what you pay to each Family Member, to each Diplomat, to each Spy, and Client Ruler. (Did I miss anything?)

Your FM's bodygaurds are free upkeep, but the FM itself cost I think 250 per turn.

[gosam]

anyway, if the range is historically true, then is the enemy running too fast than historical speed? otherwise how could this happen?


I think it's because the throwing animation is slow and doesn't start until the enemy comes in range. While you'd normally start preparing yourself to throw your javelins as soon as possible to avoid this.

[CirdanDharix]

The trhowing action is unhistorically slow. It takes a rather large ammount of seconds, because your soldiers take their sweet time getting their javelins out, then they, for some unknowable reason, spend several seconds contemplating the nature of life and the universe, before taking a meticulous aim, and then finally hurling the weapon. In reality, there would have been at most 2-3 seconds between the time the centurion shouted to the men to throw their pilae, and the javelins being thrown; and it would take less than one second for an idnvidual javelineer the grab a weapon held in his shield hand and hurl it towards the enemy line.

[Pharnakes]

The trhowing action is unhistorically slow. It takes a rather large ammount of seconds, because your soldiers take their sweet time getting their javelins out, then they, for some unknowable reason, spend several seconds contemplating the nature of life and the universe, before taking a meticulous aim, and then finally hurling the weapon. In reality, there would have been at most 2-3 seconds between the time the centurion shouted to the men to throw their pilae, and the javelins being thrown; and it would take less than one second for an idnvidual javelineer the grab a weapon held in his shield hand and hurl it towards the enemy line.


Less than one second?

I can't really agree with that, but the point stands.

[iberus_generalis]

well, considering that in the heat of battle the adrenaline rush will make you work faster, or make you crack in panick, i can most definatly believe that you can just get it and throw it in less then a second, as for efficiency of the throw with aim and strengh enough to actually puncture flesh and armor killing the foe, im not that convinced....but considering the human factor i would certainly believe in 2 to 3 seconds to get it ready, aim and throw it.... besides with the adrenaline pumping in your veins, you get, faster, stronger, and more acute senses that make you more effective in battle, or simply make you poo your pants and run(like some people in Rollercoasters). and taking into consideration that some generals would give whine and ale to their soldiers on the eve of battle so their sense of pain, and fear be dulled, so they could fight better( and im not talking about raging drunkness...more about little tipsy states), wich would lower slightly their physical responsiveness and coordination, i would maybe lower the threshold for a pila thow to about 4 seconds IMHO, which is still quite fast if you think about it.

[bovi]

I imagine they wouldn't halt, think for a bit and then fiddle out their javelins no. I imagine they would run at the enemy and throw them, like in... the javelin throw sports event. Perhaps the first to hit the enemy shields from a greater distance and make them cumbersome, the next at closer range to actually try to kill someone.

This is for skirmishers and most other javelin-toting units though, I think the roman legions may be somewhat precisely modeled with the current moving slowly in order against the enemy, then throwing before getting ready to fight in closer order. But I agree the wait is too long. If they stand ready and the enemy march on them they seem to throw pretty quickly in the game though.

[Pharnakes]

Yes, the problem is with all missile unit, really, the like to be perfectly neat and symetrical before they will fire, and also seem to need to stand still for a few seconds before firing.


So if the unit is stationary in the first place, there isn't really a problem.

It does make it very hard to use skirmishers as anything but flankers for pinned units, though.

[CirdanDharix]

Less than one second?

I can't really agree with that, but the point stands.
You can practice by taking something like a broom handle in your left hand, then grabbing it with your right and hurling it as fast as possible towards something large, like the broad side of a barn. Quite possible in a second or less. If you want to aim for a specific target or co-ordinate with your fellows to throw a volley, it takes slightly longer; but not as long as in RTW.

[pezhetairoi]

and let me guess: the missile barrage timing in EB and RTW is hardcoded. X_x

[Pharnakes]

There is a possibilty that it isn't acctualy. I might be possible to do somethingby writing a new animation.


However, I doubt it, and who has the time to do that, anyway?

[Strategos Alexandros]

I



:laugh4:

[Pharnakes]

Whoops, I meant it.


And before people start asking me to do animations, no I can't. I have 0% talent with any form of graphical manipulation.

[Elthore]

after one of the patches, units actually were invincible for a short amount of time while switching or throwing missile weapons. I cant recall if this was in 1.5 though.

[Pharnakes]

Pretty sure it isn't.

[Chris1959]

As for throwing speed, work it backwards. The range of a pilum on the game cards is 35m, which seems reasonable.

An Olympic sprinter covers 100m in 10 secs, so lets sat 40m in 4secs, given you are looking at people in armour with shields etc it would take at least 5secs to cover the ground.

Your average legionary has 5 seconds at worst to throw a pilum draw his sword and be ready to receive a charge!

[Pharnakes]

Yeah, the problem is that ingame, distances are shorter than that.

[Elthore]

its a tricky balance, i mean if they extend the range of the pilum to ensure they are thrown at the right distance, then the rear units would actually be throwing at longer than historical distances.

like Pharnakes said, the only solution is probably to speed up the throw animation, which might look wierd, because they'll still have to order the ranks, pause, switch weapons, THEN the quick animation would be executed.