View Full Version : Windows Vista vs Windows XP
edyzmedieval
11-27-2007, 08:38
This thread was fueled by the fact that Vista has increasing problems for me over the past 2 weeks. Internet Explorer keeps blocking, and it takes a lot of time for Vista to load at startup, and I have 3.5GB.
Choose, which do you think is a better OS.
Vista.
Ditch IE in favour of firefox, by the way - it's a horrible browser...
:cheerleader: Go Vista, go, give XP the last blow! :cheerleader:
It's working fine here, but then I got most Windows OSs working fine usually, only 98 and Me were a bit harder and would inevitably start to crash after a while. XP and Vista are about the same for me. My dad always says that's because I have nothing but games on my Pc but maybe that's just it, I don't have a virus scanner except Defender and my PC runs just fine, I guess all the hackers keep it stable so they won't lose access. ~:)
That reminds me I wanted to sell some old games which I never play anymore. :sweatdrop:
It's obviously a matter of personal preference, I tried MTW again a while ago and I just couldn't stand the graphics anymore, after a while I usually decide to keep games in good memory, that negates most compatibility issues for me. But it's not like those issues never existed when XP was released, some day we get yet a new one and everybody will proclaim to stay with Vista because it's so good and superior and more compatible etc. ~;)
Omanes Alexandrapolites
11-27-2007, 18:05
I actually, despite popular acclaim, find Vista much more stable that XP - XP has done some fairly random things for me before. The most significant of this included the system ignoring my user profile and creating a new one to replace it. It was very frustrating to have to resort my entire start menu, documents folder, and personalised options such as desktop wallpaper.
For me though, despite Vista's seeming superiority over XP, I do find that the old 9x generation of Windows were faster and more stable than the next generation OSes. I remember my upgrade from 98 to XP, and was disappointed when my overall speed of boot slowed by a rather noticeable amount. If I remember rightly 95 certainly was the fastest of the batch, followed closely by 98 and 98 SE. Windows Me was something I was strongly advised never to upgrade to, so I can't really comment on it.
Ah, the old days of Win95, 98, 2000. 2000 Pro was very good.
Nowadays XP is just good. Since I use certain music software and since it seems there are people complaining about Vista I will not go for it yet. What I severely dislike about Vista is that it seems to hog down one's memory and that the interface is too different from XP. Then again, I have not really experienced Vista that much personally and am relying on anecdotal evidence. THEN AGAIN, why the hell would people lie about it? The time that I will finally utilize Vista shall arrive, but it is not soon enough.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
11-27-2007, 23:21
I'm still using XP PRO SP2, though next year I'll probably get Vista.
Pharnakes
11-27-2007, 23:35
Me too, I'm sticking with xp for all the ussual reasons, but will probably go for vista fairely soon.
Indeed, I ordered 4gigs of ram with my new comp, against the day that I upgrade to vista.
As another Orgah wrote, I'm gonna ride XP 'till the wheels fall off. Besides, good things are coming (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20071126/tc_nf/56872) for the old school.
After pronouncing Windows Vista SP1 a "performance dud" two weeks ago, Devil Mountain Software, a Florida-based software development firm, reported that an upcoming update for Windows XP will offer substantial performance gains.
Running an Office productivity test suite on a preview version of Service Pack 3 for Windows XP, Devil Mountain discovered a 10 percent performance boost over the current version of Windows XP, the company reported on its blog.
I read about that today Lemur and the source I read it from also said the testers are a bit biased towards XP (sorry, no nickel for you).
Of course in this office benchmark XP was twice as fast as Vista anyway which isn't really what my personal experience shows. :sweatdrop:
Mouzafphaerre
11-28-2007, 04:30
.
A few ORGahs aside, I've yet to hear anything good about Vista.
XP Pro all the way. The fist OS MS have ever done nearly good. :yes:
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A few ORGahs aside, I've yet to hear anything good about Vista.
XP Pro all the way. The fist OS MS have ever done nearly good. :yes:
.
With respect, I'm yet to hear anything bad about Vista from anyone who's actually used it :grin2:
Mikeus Caesar
11-28-2007, 11:05
Nevermind riding it till the wheels fall off, i'm going to sit on the burnt-out chassis hoping i can make it go through the power of...
http://www.yourpostcardsite.com/images/2323/imagination_border1_thumb.gif
Imagination!
Tragically, i probably don't stand a chance. I imagine trying to stick with it that long would just be inefficient.
Here's my problems with Vista:
1)There's no need for it. I build my own PCs, so I won't be getting it pre-loaded for "free" on a new machine. Since I already have a perfectly good copy of XP pro, what possible reason could I have to purchase Vista? It offers nothing I want.
2)It's still comparatively untested. XP has been running for years in the enterprise and it's features and, more importantly, limitations are well known. While Vista doesn't offer any new must-have features, it has a big question mark when it comes to limitations, bugs, compatibility issues, ect. Why would I sign up for that?
As another Orgah wrote, I'm gonna ride XP 'till the wheels fall off.Was that me? Sounds like something I would say. Regardless, it's sound advice. :beam:
While Vista doesn't offer any new must-have features, it has a big question mark when it comes to limitations, bugs, compatibility issues, ect. Why would I sign up for that?
No must-have features? What about AeroGlass? :clown:
It's actually true there are none, but once you get used to the new interface, XP starts to look rather boring. :sweatdrop:
Let me get this straight: Vista has no must-have features AND on a computer that runs XP flawlessly and fast it will run slower AND professionally audio-wise Vista lacks superiority over XP AND XP SP3 owns or will own Vista SP1 and XP SP2? If the answer is yes then to hell with Vista. I is gun' stay wi' mah'XP. Don't need no DX10 anyway. I was planning on riding XP, like some others too, until it falls apart which hopefully won't happen.
I am not impressed how new OSs require more and more resources. If they would actually make them consume LESS resources then I would be impressed :laugh4:
Goddamn Microsoft, wretched company. And don't tell me with current hardware prices it's "okay", HELL NO. That's lazy. "Yeah yeah, let's make a resource hog. RAM and other hardware getting cheaper anyway: they can just buy some more and better hardware." Hheheheh >:)
I am not impressed how new OSs require more and more resources. If they would actually make them consume LESS resources then I would be impressed :laugh4:
You know, most DOs games ran fine on a 200MHz CPU, would you say we should have stopped development at that point?
Or maybe they should've made Crysis less of a ressource hog than Far Cry, I mean lower texture resolutions, less polygons, less scripts, less AI, smaller world......
What's the point of getting 200fps instead of 60?
And to come get to the original topic, what is Office performance anyway?
If my Core 2 Duo starts choking when I write a letter in Vista, I'll probably go back to DOS. :dizzy2:
Reminds me of this new benchmark from Futuremark that tested whether my PC could show a HD-video, convert another one, upload yet another one and encode a fourth one at the same time or something useless like that. :sweatdrop:
That said, until I get my next paycheck from Microsoft (it's overdue :furious3: ) I'll advise you not to get Vista, doesn't really offer anything important over XP.
By the way, can they sue me for trying to appear like their employee when I'm not? :sweatdrop:
Mouzafphaerre
11-28-2007, 16:13
With respect, I'm yet to hear anything bad about Vista from anyone who's actually used it :grin2:
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One of those few ORGahs spake. :grin2:
Well, it seems MS won't get any damnation unless [backroom talk] and will keep monopolying until [backroom talk] but we Troians shall resist as long as possible. :knight: ~D
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Yes, Husar, they can sue you. They can sue everyone: they are Microsoft. But they're not wearing any dunce caps like you would see ghost images from on certain political figures >:) If you want to know about sueing, then take a look at Monster Cable. I put it in spoiler tags 'cause I suspect if any of their employees detects this writing I will get sued, so you can understand how bad they are, heheheh.
And about the development and such... What justifies the fact that Vista would run slower than XP on the same machine, if this is a fact? What is their goddamn problem that this new.... "mighty" OS requires so much power? I don't care about their marketing talks and tricks and rubbish like that: just give me the goddamn truth! I want the truth! And don't tell me like Jack Nicholson that I can't HANDLE the truth! :laugh4:
It's all money. Money I tell ya. Find another reason for the people to consume.
[/rant]
You know, most DOs games ran fine on a 200MHz CPU, would you say we should have stopped development at that point?
Or maybe they should've made Crysis less of a ressource hog than Far Cry, I mean lower texture resolutions, less polygons, less scripts, less AI, smaller world......
What's the point of getting 200fps instead of 60?
And to come get to the original topic, what is Office performance anyway?
If my Core 2 Duo starts choking when I write a letter in Vista, I'll probably go back to DOS. :dizzy2:
I think you may be missing the point. The fact is that M$ have always filled up the UI with extra bloat that is simply not needed. Just because an OS GUI looks visually better, doesn't necessarily mean that the OS is better in how it runs programs - which what an OS is supposed to do after all.
Here's my problems with Vista:
1)There's no need for it. I build my own PCs, so I won't be getting it pre-loaded for "free" on a new machine. Since I already have a perfectly good copy of XP pro, what possible reason could I have to purchase Vista? It offers nothing I want.
2)It's still comparatively untested. XP has been running for years in the enterprise and it's features and, more importantly, limitations are well known. While Vista doesn't offer any new must-have features, it has a big question mark when it comes to limitations, bugs, compatibility issues, ect. Why would I sign up for that?
Was that me? Sounds like something I would say. Regardless, it's sound advice. :beam:
That's exactly my viewpoint. New PCs with Vista OEM preloaded are a different matter. My point is that I wouldn't rush out and pay £200 or so for a retail box of an OS that as far as I can see has nothing much to offer me over XP Professional SP2 or an up to date Linux distro such as Fedora Core 8 or Ubuntu 7.10.
With respect, I'm yet to hear anything bad about Vista from anyone who's actually used it :grin2:
I'll bite. I work for one of the largest fortune 500 companies in the group that oversees IT security, standards and process, and business controls. I was very recently indirectly involved with the team that's evaluating Vista for internal client rollout, and I helped a friend on that team "test drive" the OS for a few days, and I've read several of the reports and recommendations they've produced.
I've never seen anything more bloated or incompatible than Vista. Not only does about 1/3 of our deployed machines not meet the Vista specs, but those ranges of platforms it was tested on barely worked as needed. It used more RAM than our current client platform based on XP SP2 for doing what tasks it could. Half of our applications would not work on it, and will need to be updated (insanely high cost). It crashed much more frequently than our XP clients, which was NOT due to lack of knowledge or bad programming for our in-house applications. My friend and several other testers whom I know are also gamers and have been trying Vista at home, their universal response to my question on this was that they still use XP and will keep using it for quite some time, mostly due to stability and compatability.
Of course I am not at liberty to specifically cite any figures or details due to confidentiality, so people can disregard this as they will. I will state however that my employer will NOT be spending any large sums on Vista or rolling it out anytime in the near or foreseeable future whatsoever.
This is also in regards to an enterprise setting. My and other's experiences that I can account for are all in line, that Vista is heavily bloated and unstable by people who actually understand the OS and are "power users". Normal daily users like Husar will often have different experiences, however I would equate this to someone buying a Ferrari Enzo with some severe mechanical problems, and then driving it like a Honda Civic and claiming that it's perfectly fine. :rolleyes: :laugh4:
Cheers all
:balloon2:
Blodrast
11-29-2007, 04:18
No must-have features? What about AeroGlass? :clown:
It's actually true there are none, but once you get used to the new interface, XP starts to look rather boring. :sweatdrop:
While only half-joking, Husar touched the sweet spot why the people who like Vista, like it: it looks nice.
Sure, there's not just one factor, there's lots of them, but when it comes down to it, this is the one that I heard most consistently brought up by Vista's supporters.
Of course it makes a huge difference as to what everybody expects from their OS to give them (as Whacker well pointed out): if all you ever do is use Office and a browser and a multimedia player, ANY OS will be equally "performant".
One of the reasons for M$'s current near-monopoly is that people seem content to shell out cash every time a new windows version comes up, and they don't seem to see anything wrong with having to buy new hardware just because the OS is new (forget that it doesn't bring anything useful). The fact that you have a richness of hardware resources doesn't mean that the OS is supposed to be a hog...
As long as people are happily coughing up the cash to get no additional features or performance, things will remain as they are now.
Now let me go back to my nice looking, fully customizable, < 10MB window manager, and GET OFF MY LAWN! ~D
It's all money. Money I tell ya.
It usually is, before it was all about money, it was all about pottery and meat. :shrug:
I think you may be missing the point. The fact is that M$ have always filled up the UI with extra bloat that is simply not needed. Just because an OS GUI looks visually better, doesn't necessarily mean that the OS is better in how it runs programs - which what an OS is supposed to do after all.
So Linux and Mac OS X look exactly like they did 10 years back? :inquisitive:
Yeah, i know, Linux can actually be used in console mode and actually has to be used like that in some cases and that's exactly why I don't use it, I'm not a typing whirlwind. :sweatdrop:
While only half-joking, Husar touched the sweet spot why the people who like Vista, like it: it looks nice.
Sure, there's not just one factor, there's lots of them, but when it comes down to it, this is the one that I heard most consistently brought up by Vista's supporters.
And because it looks better and has those few small improvements on top of that, I don't see why one would choose XP for a new computer over Vista except if compatibility with old stuff is a concern.
Of course it makes a huge difference as to what everybody expects from their OS to give them (as Whacker well pointed out): if all you ever do is use Office and a browser and a multimedia player, ANY OS will be equally "performant".
Yes, and when you lose 3% performance in games I dare say that you will hardly notice it.
edyzmedieval
11-29-2007, 21:21
Vista is faster when it comes to games, I can guarantee on that. M2TW works like a charm with Vista.
So Linux and Mac OS X look exactly like they did 10 years back? :inquisitive:
Yeah, i know, Linux can actually be used in console mode and actually has to be used like that in some cases and that's exactly why I don't use it, I'm not a typing whirlwind. :sweatdrop:
Linux looks as good as whichever desktop manager you choose to use, from over the top 3D accelerated effects and eye candy galore with Compiz/Beryl to the simplistic icewm, or if you prefer it, no desktop manager at all and simply use the terminal. You don't need to be a "typing whirlwind", I myself am a useless typist. The bash terminal is much more user friendly than M$ cmd or command terminal.
And because it looks better and has those few small improvements on top of that, I don't see why one would choose XP for a new computer over Vista except if compatibility with old stuff is a concern.
Compatibility with "old stuff" is always a concern. If a company cannot run vital software on vista, they cannot upgrade simple as that. Just because M$ decides to break backwards compatibility doesn't mean that every company should slavishly follow to shell out millions and rush out to upgrade all of it's bespoke systems.
Yes, and when you lose 3% performance in games I dare say that you will hardly notice it.
That's exactly what M$ are banking on. People that won't notice losing "3% of performance" and will be distracted by the revamped cosmetics.
I have resolved myself to act in a civilized and helpful manner in this forum, that I may contribute to the glorious reign of the Lemur. However, sometimes one has to let go just a bit.
Vista is faster when it comes to games, I can guarantee on that. M2TW works like a charm with Vista.
Your "guarantee" stands in stark contrast to every single test/benchmark I've EVER seen that was conducted in an impartial, objective, and methodical manner. Pro tip: Tom's Hardware and a few of the other "major" hardware sites aren't remotely impartial or objective. Thanks for playing anyway, we have some nice parting gifts for you.
:balloon2:
Blodrast
11-30-2007, 00:19
So Linux and Mac OS X look exactly like they did 10 years back? :inquisitive:
Yeah, i know, Linux can actually be used in console mode and actually has to be used like that in some cases and that's exactly why I don't use it, I'm not a typing whirlwind. :sweatdrop:
As Caravel pointed out, you have a bazillion window/desktop managers to make it look however you want, from very lightweight to all the bells and whistles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_window_manager
As for the typing whirlwind part, please, this is not the 90's anymore. You have GUI's for everything you're doing, you won't need the command line for 99% of what you'll be doing. For the remainder of 1%, you _might_ need it.
Also, you need to realize one thing: people who use the command line do not do that because there is no other way around it, but because it's FASTER.
Yes, I can load up that GUI, and click on 5 buttons, and it will do something, showing me a nice thermometer/meter bar, and at the end it will make another window that will let me know that the task is finished, OR I can just type one command and achieve the same effect in less time (and most of the time, you don't even need to type the whole command - you can use the history, auto-completion, etc).
Why do you think that the keyboard shortcuts are called shortcuts ?
Because typing something is always gonna be faster than clicking through menus, icons and buttons.
We use the command line because we like it, and because it's faster, not because we _have to_.
For someone with more than 4200 posts here, I don't think you need to worry about typing skills.
Yes, and when you lose 3% performance in games I dare say that you will hardly notice it.
So you find it acceptable to buy a new thing that is actually worse than a previous version ?! But it's okay 'cause it's shinier ?
I'm curious, do you apply the same principle in any other aspect of your life, i.e. with any other purchases ?
I have resolved myself to act in a civilized and helpful manner in this forum, that I may contribute to the glorious reign of the Lemur. However, sometimes one has to let go just a bit.
I know what you're saying, I managed to keep myself from posting in this thread for so long, and I wish I had. But yeah, I know exactly what you're saying...
I have to concur with Blodrast, who has put over the argument better than I could have. :bow:
The command line is surprisingly faster than a GUI. I don't claim to be anything like a UNIX/Linux pro myself but when it comes down to it, using a terminal is easier than using the GUI almost every time. If I was to go to an official forum for a given distro for technical assistance with any issue, then the solution is often a cut and paste terminal command. Basically I can study the command and see what the poster is trying to do, and learn from that, or I can take it as read cut and paste it into my terminal and hit enter. This is a hell of a lot easier and faster than trying to to tell a user to: "click here, click there, click that, click the something tab, right click properties, uncheck the something box, click apply now reboot"... etc, etc. Basically you'll only find yourself using the terminal if something needs fixing, configuring or if the X server is broken (rare). Otherwise you'll spend most of your time at the GUI.
So adding to the argument: The terminal isn't used because it's overly technical and makes us feel as if we look clever by knowing seemingly complex commands, it's there because it's faster, more expedient and is much better for user support.
So you find it acceptable to buy a new thing that is actually worse than a previous version ?! But it's okay 'cause it's shinier ?
I'm curious, do you apply the same principle in any other aspect of your life, i.e. with any other purchases ?
Yes, games. ~:rolleyes:
You know, MTW ran slower than STW, yet it was shinier. :dizzy2:
Blodrast
11-30-2007, 21:44
Yes, games. ~:rolleyes:
You know, MTW ran slower than STW, yet it was shinier. :dizzy2:
Nope, comparing apples and oranges here, MTW had new features, improved stability, etc. With Vista it is the other way around over XP, for example.
I personally do not consider MTW to have been worse than STW, which is what I was asking about. If you liked STW better, that's a different story, we weren't talking about _liking_, but about _worse_.
Real men use the command line!
~:cheers: to Blodrast and Caravel!
I personally do not consider MTW to have been worse than STW, which is what I was asking about.
I personally do not consider Vista to be worse than XP either, for me it runs stable, has more features and looks better. Before I just mentioned that it may be slower, but my point was that slower does not necessarily equal worse.
I'm sorry if it doesn't work for someone but I am not going to run around screaming that it crashes when it doesn't for me. :shrug:
When a game or demo crashes it also seems to handle that better than XP in my experience. Maybe I magically acquired a fixed version or it's the tradeoff for me having no girlfriend, but my experience with Vista is that it's better than XP except for the compatibility. ~;)
I'll bite. I work for one of the largest fortune 500 companies in the group that oversees IT security, standards and process, and business controls. I was very recently indirectly involved with the team that's evaluating Vista for internal client rollout, and I helped a friend on that team "test drive" the OS for a few days, and I've read several of the reports and recommendations they've produced.
I've never seen anything more bloated or incompatible than Vista. Not only does about 1/3 of our deployed machines not meet the Vista specs, but those ranges of platforms it was tested on barely worked as needed. It used more RAM than our current client platform based on XP SP2 for doing what tasks it could. Half of our applications would not work on it, and will need to be updated (insanely high cost). It crashed much more frequently than our XP clients, which was NOT due to lack of knowledge or bad programming for our in-house applications. My friend and several other testers whom I know are also gamers and have been trying Vista at home, their universal response to my question on this was that they still use XP and will keep using it for quite some time, mostly due to stability and compatability.
Of course I am not at liberty to specifically cite any figures or details due to confidentiality, so people can disregard this as they will. I will state however that my employer will NOT be spending any large sums on Vista or rolling it out anytime in the near or foreseeable future whatsoever.
This is also in regards to an enterprise setting. My and other's experiences that I can account for are all in line, that Vista is heavily bloated and unstable by people who actually understand the OS and are "power users". Normal daily users like Husar will often have different experiences, however I would equate this to someone buying a Ferrari Enzo with some severe mechanical problems, and then driving it like a Honda Civic and claiming that it's perfectly fine. :rolleyes: :laugh4:
Cheers all
:balloon2:
Well, that does conflict with what I've seen, both personally and on other forums; but I'd expect that for an enterprise environment ~:)
From a consumer standpoint, the only main problem I have with vista is that it's a fair bit slower in some games (the only ones I've really noticed it in are those based on the source engine, but it's a significant hit there).
Oh, and IIS7. If you think that the office 2007 interface was a mistake, take one look at that, and vomit. Better yet, try using it :wall:
Otherwise, vista is simply a better OS, imho. It's more stable, and I've yet to find a program that won't run (not even using compatibility mode). Note, this is with consumer software, not business software, which, as you say, is a whole different beast.
Oh, and the search feature is a godsend. For that alone, I won't go back to XP. I'm very much a text-based person, as with the rest of you command line freaks; and being able to click start, type 'winw', 'indes', 'phot' etc and hit enter to launch something is fantastic. It even works with document names :thumbsup:
Every application should be like that.
Kekvit Irae
12-01-2007, 14:15
If I had partitioning software, I'd dump Vista faster than an ex with syphilis and dual-boot to XP.
If I had partitioning software, I'd dump Vista faster than an ex with syphilis and dual-boot to XP.
foolish, but... (http://gparted.sourceforge.net/)
edyzmedieval
12-02-2007, 14:28
Otherwise, vista is simply a better OS, imho. It's more stable, and I've yet to find a program that won't run (not even using compatibility mode). Note, this is with consumer software, not business software, which, as you say, is a whole different beast.
MTW doesn't work at all with Vista, even with compatibility mode. STW works though. :inquisitive:
MTW doesn't work at all with Vista, even with compatibility mode. STW works though. :inquisitive:
You sure that's the OS, and not the graphics card?
I seem to recall a problem with the geforce 8 series cards and MTW even under XP...
Otherwise, vista is simply a better OS, imho. It's more stable, and I've yet to find a program that won't run (not even using compatibility mode).
I've always found XP and 2K to be very stable in general. In what way is Vista "more stable"?
:bow:
I've always found XP and 2K to be very stable in general. In what way is Vista "more stable"?
That's true, but more stable in my experience when a game crashes, I've had games and demos crash in XP and then the Task Manager wouldn't come up, the game window would be on top omitting the Task Manager and especially with background programs running it would be hard to close the game without restarting the whole Pc, at least for me. In Vista I do not recall that happening, when you press Ctrl+Alt+Del Vista opens a completely new screen that allows you to lock the PC, change the user etc and also to call up the Task Manager which, IIRC, has never been behind another program so far and the whole process seems "cleaner" to me than pressing the hardware reset button to restart the whole PC.
It's not just that, I think Vista overall and that includes visuals and other things like this, makes a more polished impression on me so far. You may be entirely right that it's not that polished underneath, but at least for me that doesn't shine through. :shrug:
And in the end we all just want to be happy,don't we? :sweatdrop:
That's true, but more stable in my experience when a game crashes, I've had games and demos crash in XP and then the Task Manager wouldn't come up, the game window would be on top omitting the Task Manager and especially with background programs running it would be hard to close the game without restarting the whole Pc, at least for me.
In NT/2K/XP the Task Manager should always appear on top, the only reason why it wouldn't is if you've unchecked the "Always On Top" option which is if I may add very unwise as it causes exactly the problem you're referring to.
In Vista I do not recall that happening, when you press Ctrl+Alt+Del Vista opens a completely new screen that allows you to lock the PC, change the user etc and also to call up the Task Manager which, IIRC, has never been behind another program so far and the whole process seems "cleaner" to me than pressing the hardware reset button to restart the whole PC.
The same is true for XP and 2K - just disable the welcome screen and by pressing CTRL+ALT+DEL you will bring up the same screen that allows you to carry out exactly the actions you've mentioned above.
This is a screenshot of the dialogue box from the screen you mentioned. It hasn't actually changed at all since NT4 except cosmetically:
http://www.md.chalmers.se/Support/Howtos/images/metaframe-change-passwd-3.jpg
This is the same thing in 2K:
http://www.smc.edu/password/password_images/windows-security-screen-3.gif
And in XP:
http://www.wfu.edu/is/thinkpad/guide/r40/ctrlaltdelsmall.jpg
The Vista version is quite a departure from those visually, but if you disable the themes and revert to the classic appearance it may in some way resemble those above. Either way, underneath the gloss it's the same thing, with the same functionality.
It's not just that, I think Vista overall and that includes visuals and other things like this, makes a more polished impression on me so far. You may be entirely right that it's not that polished underneath, but at least for me that doesn't shine through. :shrug:
And in the end we all just want to be happy,don't we? :sweatdrop:
So overall you've admitted that you're mainly impressed by the visuals and Vista gives you the "impression" of being more stable, mainly because it appears more polished (the themes service) and because CTRL+ALT+DEL doesn't open only the task manager by default but instead goes to a "completely new screen" (which first appeared in Windows NT and has also been in 2000, XP and Server 2003)? Even if this were a new feature of some sort, I still wouldn't view it as any kind of indication of "improved stability" in the NT family.
:bow:
Blodrast
12-03-2007, 00:07
Oh, and the search feature is a godsend. For that alone, I won't go back to XP. I'm very much a text-based person, as with the rest of you command line freaks; and being able to click start, type 'winw', 'indes', 'phot' etc and hit enter to launch something is fantastic. It even works with document names :thumbsup:
Every application should be like that.
You do know that us command line freaks (:laugh4:) had something like that for, oh, I dunno, some 20 years now, in *nix shells - it's called auto-completion. :2thumbsup:
No malice intended, but I do find it ironic that you prefer Vista for offering exactly what a lot of the other supporters blame *nix for, and want to run away from: using the command line!:2thumbsup:
(Husar, confess now, are you secretly using that feature ? 'cause if you are, you know, it's almost like you're using *nix, and have given in to the dark side...~:yin-yang: )
Real men use the command line!
~:cheers: to Blodrast and Caravel!
Aye, cheers to the command line freaks! ~:cheers:
In NT/2K/XP the Task Manager should always appear on top, the only reason why it wouldn't is if you've unchecked the "Always On Top" option which is if I may add very unwise as it causes exactly the problem you're referring to.
I've never unchecked any box, it usually did appear on top but some games or demos caused it to be in the background or flicker weirdly nonetheless, something to do with the games forcing themselves into the foreground I guess(Gothic 2 for example, you cannot even alt-tab out of that, it will come right up again :sweatdrop: ). It didn't happen that often, but it did happen.
The same is true for XP and 2K - just disable the welcome screen and by pressing CTRL+ALT+DEL you will bring up the same screen that allows you to carry out exactly the actions you've mentioned above.
Ah, yeah, I've seen that screen before, think it's default in NT but in XP I always got the Task Manager, probably because I never disabled the welcome screen, had only one user so it never showed anyway(yesyes, I know, very dangerous, gives me a thrill everytime ~;) ).
So overall you've admitted that you're mainly impressed by the visuals and Vista gives you the "impression" of being more stable, mainly because it appears more polished (the themes service) and because CTRL+ALT+DEL doesn't open only the task manager by default but instead goes to a "completely new screen" (which first appeared in Windows NT and has also been in 2000, XP and Server 2003)? Even if this were a new feature of some sort, I still wouldn't view it as any kind of indication of "improved stability" in the NT family.
Well, you're right, the screen isn't new, I just forgot about seeing it before. Oh and I like graphics, I can't help it, I installed RTW again some days ago and after M2TW I couldn't help but think that RTW looks completely boring, especially the terrain, once I'm spoiled graphically I have a hard time going back with a few exceptions. :sweatdrop:
Main reason I use Vista is because I got it for free anyway, never made a secret out of that, I never ever bought an OS, got several from my dad and now I get them from MSDNAA. :shrug:
So while the improvements may be minor I still don't see why I should avoid Vista as long as it runs fine and I like it and it makes me happy. ~;)
For the same reason I do not see why a gamer similar to me would choose XP over Vista with a new PC unless she/he wants to play certain old games that may not run in Vista.
I wouldn't even be surprised if Businesses used Win 2k, though I avoided that when I saw all those Win 2k patches for games after the release of 2k, didn't really have the best compatibility either.
(Husar, confess now, are you secretly using that feature ? 'cause if you are, you know, it's almost like you're using *nix, and have given in to the dark side...~:yin-yang: )
Yes, sometimes I do, it just proves that Vista is about as good as whatever the heck you're talking about. ~;) :laugh4:
I've always found XP and 2K to be very stable in general. In what way is Vista "more stable"?
:bow:
I just find it useful to have it cleanly recover from driver crashes within a session, for example. Instead of receiving a BSOD or other error screen, vista will simply do a clean restart of the driver, and a few seconds later you can keep using it as if there was no problem at all, thanks to the new (and admittedly irritating for developers) driver model.
You do know that us command line freaks () had something like that for, oh, I dunno, some 20 years now, in *nix shells - it's called auto-completion.
No malice intended, but I do find it ironic that you prefer Vista for offering exactly what a lot of the other supporters blame *nix for, and want to run away from: using the command line!If *nix had decent support for games, I'd run it :laugh4:
In NT/2K/XP the Task Manager should always appear on top, the only reason why it wouldn't is if you've unchecked the "Always On Top" option which is if I may add very unwise as it causes exactly the problem you're referring to.Both the XP and Vista task managers have a lot of problems with popping up on top of fullscreen games; indeed one of the main irritations that I have with Vista is that, while it will pull you out to a different desktop for the ctrl+alt+del menu screen, it'll dump you back to the active one when using the task manager. Things would be a lot easier for the user (if a lot harder to code) if it ran in a isolated desktop as well.
edyzmedieval
12-03-2007, 10:39
You sure that's the OS, and not the graphics card?
I seem to recall a problem with the geforce 8 series cards and MTW even under XP...
I have a nVIDIA 7900GS. That isn't the GeForce 8, is it? :inquisitive:
I have a nVIDIA 7900GS. That isn't the GeForce 8, is it? :inquisitive:
No, that's the 7xxx series.
Here's an interesting statistic: Microsoft claims that Vista is being pirated at half the rate of Windows XP (http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/04/vista-pirated-half-as-much-as-xp-microsoft-rejoices/). MSoft is spinning this as evidence that their validation scheme is working as intended.
Seeing as Vista is readily available for illegal download from the usual suspects, I think this means pirates don't much want Vista. But that's just my take.
Mouzafphaerre
12-06-2007, 04:32
.
MSoft is spinning this as evidence that their validation scheme is working as intended.
Seeing as Vista is readily available for illegal download from the usual suspects, I think this means pirates don't much want Vista. But that's just my take.
Mine too! :yes:
.
Here's an interesting statistic: Microsoft claims that Vista is being pirated at half the rate of Windows XP (http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/04/vista-pirated-half-as-much-as-xp-microsoft-rejoices/). MSoft is spinning this as evidence that their validation scheme is working as intended.
Seeing as Vista is readily available for illegal download from the usual suspects, I think this means pirates don't much want Vista. But that's just my take.
Yep, pirate copies of Vista are easier to get and use than those of XP (thanks to the volume licensing loophole actually working with WGA), so I don't think you can read that statistic any other way :laugh4:
If *nix had decent support for games, I'd run it :laugh4:
Heard of Wine (http://appdb.winehq.org/)?:beam:
Anything rated "Platinum" or "Gold" should run well under Linux...
Platinum (http://appdb.winehq.org/browse_by_rating.php?sRating=Platinum)- Applications which install and run flawlessly on an out-of-the-box Wine installation
Gold (http://appdb.winehq.org/browse_by_rating.php?sRating=Gold) - Applications that work flawlessly with some special configuration
Last I heard Wine still had serious problems running modern directx applications (performance, not compatibility, wise)?
Last I heard Wine still had serious problems running modern directx applications (performance, not compatibility, wise)?
Oh it's definitely not perfect by a long shot. But apps that work under Wine generally work well. All you can do is search the appDB and see what experience others have had running a game. Obviously it's not likely to ever support games designed for Windows as well as Windows itself, but it's nice to know that if I ever make the switch, I won't have to give up all my Windows games. :sweatdrop:
Cedega is better for running games than Wine. TW games don't run too well however. I think RTW and M2TW can be got to a barely working state in some cases but STW/MTW don't seem to work at all.
I wonder how well virtualisation would work?
I know VMware server (free) can run using unix as a host OS, and the reports I've read on that sort of software indicates that the performance hit isn't really that bad (maybe ~10%).
Unfortunately, unless I'm mistaken (I'll check), they were only testing desktop performance, so didn't stress the graphics subsystem. Do any of you folks know what the overhead on 3d would be with virtualisation?
Else I might have to have a look into whether you can simultaneously have an image bootable and virtualise-able (to save space and simplify things, so that I could virtualise windows from *nix using the same install as was bootable on its own).
Any ideas, or is this off-topic rant getting a bit boring? ~;)
I just found out that PC Magazine's Vista Death Watch (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2209837,00.asp) is its most popular column. Dissent within the ranks, eh?
Microsoft has extended the life of Windows XP because Vista has simply not shown any life in the market. We have to begin to ask ourselves if we are really looking at Windows Me/2007, destined to be a disdained flop. By all estimates the number of Vista installations hovers around the number of Macs in use.
How did this happen? And what’s going to happen next? Does Microsoft have a Plan B?
Great article, Lemur. I think he's really nailed it- especially the suggested fixes. :bow:
I also liked his article on Shrink-Wrap Software vs. Hosted Service (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2236628,00.asp)
The biggest factor is the cost, and the number of variants, at the end of the day people want an OS that works and they want to pay something reasonable for it, i.e. less than £90.00. The cost of Vista is nothing short of daylight robbery and it has nothing much to offer over XP apart from DirectX 10 and some fancy eye candy. It clearly isn't what Longhorn was supposed to be. With Vista sales going they way they are it looks increasingly feasible that DX10 may somehow make it into XP possibly as part of SP3.
I'd prefer Win XP rather than other, there is no need of Vista. Until they force me.
But seriously, I miss Win98. It was different all the way.
Nice articles, but sounds like nothing new to me. I don't think DX10 will become a part of SP3, though, even though I'd like it (even if I don't play games). Vista must perish and XP must continue. Instead of making new OSs that don't offer much important new functionality, they should upgrade XP as much as possible and make it more ultimate. If there's to be a next Windows OS, it'll have to be something TRULY significant. Vista is not it. Maybe that one I heard about -- Windows 7 or something -- will be the bomb.
I don't think DX10 will become a part of SP3, though, even though I'd like it (even if I don't play games).
If Vista carries on selling like it has been then M$ will have to offer DX10 to XP users because the gaming industry is not interested in M$'s selfish goal of forcing gamers on to Vista, they want to sell games.
If Vista carries on selling like it has been then M$ will have to offer DX10 to XP users because the gaming industry is not interested in M$'s selfish goal of forcing gamers on to Vista, they want to sell games.
If what they've been saying about the architecture is correct that shouldn't be possible ~:)
Everybody raise your hand if you think Microsoft is being completely honest about it.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-07-2008, 03:26
Wasn't there somebody who linked an article about someone who managed to mod XP to include DX10?
That was me. A group of modders realized there was no technical reason why DX10 couldn't be ported to XP, so they started work on it.
Here's a little more info (http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2007/07/11/dx10-is-do-able-on-windows-xp). Verdict? There is no technical reason XP cannot support DX10. It's just Microsoft trying to force us to upgrade to Windows Me 2.
There's also a group that's trying to produce commercial virtualizations of DX10 and DX9 for other platforms, which is pretty nifty. Here's their download page (http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/compatibility/).
If what they've been saying about the architecture is correct that shouldn't be possible ~:)
That was me. A group of modders realized there was no technical reason why DX10 couldn't be ported to XP, so they started work on it.
Here's a little more info (http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2007/07/11/dx10-is-do-able-on-windows-xp). Verdict? There is no technical reason XP cannot support DX10. It's just Microsoft trying to force us to upgrade to Windows Me 2.
There's also a group that's trying to produce commercial virtualizations of DX10 and DX9 for other platforms, which is pretty nifty. Here's their download page (http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/compatibility/).
You took the words right out of my mouth. There is no technical reason why DirectX cannot run on XP, it is simply M$ that don't want it to. :yes:
I remember reading something a few weeks ago about something called the "alky project", I can't check out Lemur's second link as it blocked at my workplace by their content filters.
My link is to the download page of the Alky project. They're trying to go commercial with it, which is fine by me.
My link is to the download page of the Alky project. They're trying to go commercial with it, which is fine by me.
Uh oh....
Welcome to the Falling Leaf Systems website. Unfortunately, we have ceased business operations. However, we have decided to Open Source all code created to this point for both the Alky Converter and the Alky Compatibility libraries. Also provided is an archived copy of Alky for Applications 1.0 (formerly Project VAIO).
At least they open-sourced their work. :shrug:
That just proves the superiority of Microsoft's business model. :laugh4:
That just proves the brutality superiority of Microsoft's business model. :laugh4:
Looks like M$ might have sent their lawyers in. :deal2:
Fixed the quote for you, though we don't know for sure if M$ were involved as yet.
Why do you hate capitalism? :inquisitive:
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