Wedge Formation

[Timoleon]

Does wedge formation have any use at all?
Is there some hidden charge bonus?
It seems to me that it makes charges less effective.

Moreover, what's the recommended depth for a cavalry unit to maximize the charge effect?

:charge:

[CirdanDharix]

It depends on what you are trying to achieve. With a wedge formation, heavy cavalry can actually break through a line of light or even medium infantry--if you're to lazy to march them all the way around the enemy flank, it can be a good way to get behind the enemy. It may also give a charge bonus, though I couldn't swear it does.


The ideal depth of a cavalry formation depends on what you want to achieve. If you want to maximise kills during the charge itself, line them up en haye, one or two deep. If you want to push a unit out of formation, or if you plan on engaging in a melee after the charge, your cavalry should be at least four deep, or in a wedge.

[Maeran]

In M:TW it was the absolute quickest way to get rid of a useless FM.

Which kind of put me off learning to use it properly.

[TWFanatic]

In vanilla RTW multiplayer, it is superior. All the best players use wedge with only a few exceptions. In EB, however, due to the low attack of cavalry, the charge simply falters with the first man and collapses on itself rather than busting through the enemy line. So unfortunately, wedge is almost useless.:whip:

[Intranetusa]

In vanilla RTW multiplayer, it is superior. All the best players use wedge with only a few exceptions. In EB, however, due to the low attack of cavalry, the charge simply falters with the first man and collapses on itself rather than busting through the enemy line. So unfortunately, wedge is almost useless.:whip:

:( ... Why is the attack so low? Maybe there could be a balance between charge bonus and attack...

I don't like it when my elite general's cavalry gets slaughtered by levy spearmen just because they have spears :(

[Pharnakes]

:( ... Why is the attack so low? Maybe there could be a balance between charge bonus and attack...

I don't like it when my elite general's cavalry gets slaughtered by levy spearmen just because they have spears :(


Get used to it. It happened often enough IRL.

And there already is a ballance. Not being a fanboy here, but the cav in eb is pretty good, and way, way better than vannila.

[Intranetusa]

Get used to it. It happened often enough IRL.

And there already is a ballance. Not being a fanboy here, but the cav in eb is pretty good, and way, way better than vannila.

Obviously it's better than vanillas. I'm just asking if there is a way to make the wedge more effective by slightly increasing the attack values and lower charge bonuses.

[TWFanatic]

For the money, EB cavalry are definately not as good as vanilla. They have a much lower attack and much higher defense.


I don't like it when my elite general's cavalry gets slaughtered by levy spearmen just because they have spears
Woah! You must be charging head on into them, because I know that my Companions are invincible on the battlefield. All I need is a unit--any unit--to pin the enemy, and they're dead. Charge and recharge over and over again until they break.

[Intranetusa]

For the money, EB cavalry are definately not as good as vanilla. They have a much lower attack and much higher defense.


Woah! You must be charging head on into them, because I know that my Companions are invincible on the battlefield. All I need is a unit--any unit--to pin the enemy, and they're dead. Charge and recharge over and over again until they break.


Well, I pin them down with my infantry, and charge over and over at them until my cavalry gets tired, then I engage in melee. But I'm Romanii, and their cavalry sucks...so that might be the reason...

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Cavalry charges have saved my Lusotannan arse more then once. They are for that: Well adjusted charges. Except maybe for katanks and obviously horse archers, chasing down routers notwithstanding.

:charge:
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[Intranetusa]

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Cavalry charges have saved my Lusotannan arse more then once. They are for that: Well adjusted charges. Except maybe for katanks and obviously horse archers, chasing down routers notwithstanding.

:charge:
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Roman citizen cavalry is so crappy that when fighting veteran rebels in the Alps (with 3+ chevrons), my cavalry either kills 0 enemies, or actually loses troops on the charge.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Yeah, that one has excessively low charge. I use it against exhausted units from the rear to do the final breaking and indeed router gathering.
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[Thaatu]

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Cavalry charges have saved my Lusotannan arse more then once.
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Hey nice, you took the city, huh? How did Carthage react?



Just waiting for someone to notice the joke...

[Pharnakes]

:smartass:

[Mouzafphaerre]

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:inquisitive:
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[Pharnakes]

:shrug:

[TWFanatic]

I must admit, I took it at face value first...

I find equites to be quite valuable. They're not great for ramming in the rear (no pun intended), but they aren't bad either.

[beatoangelico]

I remeber the old times of Shogun and the first Medieval...in that games the wedge formation was available for all units and it was crazy. Some two handed sword bearers in MTW like some Irish guys (can't remeber the name) in wedge formations were exceptionally good for assault roles.

[Pharnakes]

Galowglasses.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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:yes: Them and Vikings. :viking:
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[Senatus Populusque Romanus]

As far as i know, it give you +1 charge bonus.

Even if it doesn't wedge formation is really effective when you want to break Light infantry line or peltests line.

I often use wedge not to attack the line, but to disrupt enemy battle line.

[Pharnakes]

+1 charge when typical eb cav has 30+?


Pfff.

[Puupertti Ruma]

I read from somewhere (probably the unofficial EDU guide) that Wedge gives bonus mass to the point of the wedge.

[Thaatu]

:inquisitive:

:shrug:
Noobs. But I still won't explain the joke. My dignity doesn't allow it.

[Pharnakes]

Well, its pretty obvious is it not?

Its just not funny.

Hence my use of :smartass:


I was shruging at Mouzafphaerre in amused sympathy for being inflicted with such an apaling almost joke.

Sorry :shame:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The wedge is superior to the line in terms of control, which is why (probably) Philip II introduced it. Move in Wedge, charge in line; unless you are trying to break light troops in shallow depth.

[Thaatu]

Its just not funny.
I agree. I beg Mouzafphaerre for forgiveness.

[Kολοσσός]

The wedge formation is primarily a maneuver formation. If a line of enemy is heading towards you and you want to outflank them with cavalry you want your horses to advance in a wedge formation so they can pass through the enemy line without making contact and becoming tangled up in battle unnecessarily. Imagine trying to insert a drinking into a cup of Coke-you wouldn't hold the straw horizontally because it will never pass through the little hole in the lid. Once you're behind the enemy lines you revert back to normal formation. I've never used wedge to actually engage.

[Mouzafphaerre]

I agree. I beg Mouzafphaerre for forgiveness.
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3 red balloons in advance and 1 blue balloon per turn in tribute for a year please. :coffeenews:
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[CirdanDharix]

But in RTW, the wedge actually slows your manoeuvering.

That said, I've just had a great victory over the accursed Roman scum thanks to my cavalry. But all my charges (well, almost all) were en haye and I didn't use wedge even once. They ended up routing my infantry thanks to their superior numbers, but my elephants rampaging through their ranks held them up and it took them long enough for my cavalry to annihilated their flanks. Then, my victorious, but depleted, cavalry regrouped at one edge of the field and their victorious heavy infantry at the other...the game kept telling me it was hopeless but I knew better. I occupied a good position, slightly higher than the Romans, but with open and relatively level ground all around, so my horsemen to manoeuvre. Then I waited and rested my horses, while the Romans marched against me...I charged their units as they came up, attacking from every direction but always keeping part of my cavalry at rest, charging and retreating until they broke and were slaughtered. They tried to receive my charges on spear-points, but I halted the cavalry facing them while other squadrons slammed into their flanks. In the end they brough up four mostly-intact battalions as a single body, a force that could defeat me if it wasn't rapidly routed. But their generals were fallen, they were exhausted and my cavalry charged them from all directions at once, routing their allied spearmen first to cause a chain rout. My squadron of Carthaginian citizen cavalry were the real heroes of the battle, killing 750 Romans; but the Numidian nobles also did well, claiming 534 kills!

Sorry, just wanted to share the glory.

[Pharnakes]

Sounds pretty good.