View Full Version : Fav. Religion and Faction
So far I've played as the Germans, Danes and currently the English.
I wanted to use the English because of:
1. Longbows, I can't wait to spam these bad boys. Nothing beats these in the archers department IMHO
and 2. They can make Crusades. As a side benefit, they are also quite far from the Muslim provinces so any crusade I build can pick up people from a bunch of other catholic factions between me and the target province.
It was a tough choice for me thoughas there were many others I wanted to try.
What are your fav. factions and why? Do you prefer Catholics, Muslims or Orthodox factions?
r johnson
11-28-2007, 21:55
I find myself always chosing the English mostly because I get to fight the French:beam:. I like Orthodox factions but tend to go for Catholics simply because I prefer fighting European factions which interest me more than Muslim factions which I treat as a distraction from fighting Europeans :smg: :painting: :hmg: :drama3:
Mouzafphaerre
11-28-2007, 22:24
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Muslim factions are depicted excessively stupidly. Turkish names look like Zerg ones from Starcraft. :stare: (Not even touching the fact that there was no 'Turks' faction, or 'Egypt'.) Almos, despite their stupidly westo-bastardized name and all, were the only feasible one and I believe I completed a campaign with them. :sultan:
Orthodox factions are challenging. My first campaign was with the Byzies and one of the handful completed ones with Novgorod. Few things feel better than pinning down the Horde. :knight:
Caths are the most powerful due to crusading and the irresistible fun of prying the Pope with your GIs when necessary. :laugh4: With the English, the Sicilians (with Scots names ~D) and the Danes I have seen glory. A Spanish and a Polish campaign are waiting attention from my EB-addicted gaming time. :computer:
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Sicilian leaders and militaries were Normans in middle age, they may have Viking names.
Annie
ps: forgot: fav religion is atheist :D
ps2: I would rather take Ottoman or even Fatimid if I want to play with bows. English bowmen was given superstats (understandable, CA was a brit company) but they are quite boring. After all, you can't construct an all-shooter English army, while you could with Ottoman. I mean, all-shooters and still can fight decently hand-to-hand and have cavs...
Mouzafphaerre
11-29-2007, 01:07
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Sicilians with Scotts Gaelic (nowhere near Norman) names and Italian surnames is a well known buglet in MTW-VI. Actually a single number in a text file misplaced. I remember KekvitIrae was the one to post the solution at the ORG.
Norman kings of Sicilia were crowned with the Italian versions of their names, such as Ruggerio etc.
:2cents: for your retirement funds ~;p
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Muslim factions and Orthodox factions are my joint favourites, but as mentioned the implimentation of Muslim factions into MTW was severely botched. Only some of the individual units really save them from being a complete disaster. The north african, eastern and anatolian provinces are badly positioned and overly large, the naming is all wrong and many of the units are too generic and assigned to the wrong factions. Examples being Muwahid Foot Soldiers which should be "Almohad" (hispanicised form of Al-Muwahhid) faction only and others such as Ghulams and Ghazis which should be Turkish (Seljuk/Osmani etc) only.
Mouzafphaerre
11-29-2007, 03:05
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Ghulam simply means slave. Can apply to a soldier, an errand rider or a dishwasher. Ghazi means one who has participated in a Ghazwë (war for a holy reason). May be a military unit, an errand rider or a dishwasher. :grin: Most of the time, Ottoman sultans and emperors were styled Gāzī, just for being on the throne and ordering a campaign. :sultan:
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Hound of Ulster
11-29-2007, 03:43
Byzantium in Early, Egypt in Early, England in High, Germans in Late, and Turkish in Late.
The Turks are easily my favourite faction.
Catholic factions are good fun because of the quality of your heavy cav and foot units, and because of the added complication of dealing with the Pope....Orthodox factions are good because of the variety of mounted archers...I will confess that even when playing as a Catholic faction I use Turcopoles/mtd Xbows whenever possible...I will confess I have never tried my hand at a muslim faction (though I have often been tempted to try the Turks/Seljuks).
Faourite factions....hmmm....don't know. each that I have played has had its own appeal. Some of my personal faves:
Sicily - location (access to trade etc), ILI....
Denmark - location again, vikings, longboats
England - billmen. Longbows are okay, but I far prefer arbs
Aragon - location, jinetes...didn't go far enough to get Lancers
Byzantines - some great units, and a "meat in the sandwich" position
Serbs (XL 3.0) - threatening start pos, access to all manner of mounted missile units (HA's, mtd Xbows, Carska Garda, Serb Cav...)
Decisions, decisions! :dizzy2:
gregori99
11-29-2007, 12:48
Byzantines - interesting roster and geographical position, easy in Early but harder in High/Late.
Castillians/Aragonese/Almoheads for the geography.
HRE - when I want a lot of wars.
Turks - for the most varied roster.
As for religion, Catholic is the most poweful because of crusades, which can gain you special units as well as being hammer blows against the Muslim factions. But Orthodox factions can also use the crusades as a way of tenderising the Muslims without having them strip your lands of manpower.
macsen rufus
11-29-2007, 15:44
the naming is all wrong and many of the units are too generic and assigned to the wrong factions
:yes: Can I add my favourite :daisy:-up to this list? Nizaris, by definition, can only belong to a rebel faction in an Egyptian civil war ~D
That aside, I do like the "Turkish" faction - lots of excellent hybrids, interesting range of cavalry, end up with Yeni Cheri / Janisseries, and some interesting nieghbours to crush. But they can be a bit too easy ~D
After that I like the smaller XL factions, for a challenge :2thumbsup:
:yes: Can I add my favourite :daisy:-up to this list? Nizaris, by definition, can only belong to a rebel faction in an Egyptian civil war ~D
Don't forget the Hashishin with their cloaking devices. They are basically the same thing as the Nizaris. The cult of the assassins were the followers of Nizari Islam. That camel general (namely Hassan ibn al Sabah) you get in Syria as the Turks in early should be their leader. The valour bonus for assassins in Syria is also supposed to represent this (the "old man of the mountain" mentioned in the historic event info parchment is also the very same al Sabah).
In the pocket mod I renamed the Hashishin as Nizari Fedayeen (minus the stealth ability) and Nizari as Nizari Foot soldiers, and made them available only in Damascus, Aleppo and Mosul (without the valour bonuses). Ideally I would have made them merc only units but that would have been pointless as the AI can't recruit them. In the end I settled for them as muslim rebel and jihad only units. I also removed the assassin valour bonus.
Sounds like I should try a non catholic faction next time. I'm thinkning either Byzantines or Turkish. I am tempted to try out the Hungarians or Polish as well. So many options!!
I'm not sure I can resist the lure of the Hungarian Szekely though. those guys kick some serious rump as both decent shock light cavalry and a Horse Archer in one unit.
Bregil the Bowman
11-30-2007, 00:53
English bowmen was given superstats (understandable, CA was a brit company)
Yawn...
Ask the cream of French chivalry whether the stats for English longbows were over-rated - based on their experiences at Crecy, Calais, Poitiers, Agincourt etc etc. I don't think CA's British connections are at all relevant though it is written in this forum with boring regularity. :Zzzz:
The complex relationship between Catholic kings and the pope means that, for me, you can't play the full scope of MTW unless you are playing a Catholic faction. That said I have thoroughly enjoyed the campaigns I have fought as the Almohads - though the stats for the AUM surely suggest that someone at CA had a Moroccan grandmother. :laugh4:
Mouzafphaerre
11-30-2007, 01:48
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though the stats for the AUM surely suggest that someone at CA had a Moroccan grandmother. :laugh4:
:laugh4:
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AUM ahve very healthy stats for their cost and building requirements, not to mention Granada I think produces them with +1 Valour as well!
These guys have to be the backbone of many an army.
Longbowmen performed better than expected in those battles, doesn't mean the weapon was. Example: it was shown that the longbow arrow couldn't pierce the armor of the day at Agincourt; most killing done by longbowmen there was with secondary weapon such as hammer and dagger, the bows certainly didn't kill as much as the MTW unit iscapable. The bowmen was expected by the french to run away at the sight of CMAA charge, and they remarkably didn't. That was modeled in MTW as better morale for the bowmen.
In MTW, playing England is easy :D
Annie
fav religion is atheist
No more command of French armies for you La Pucelle.
seireikhaan
11-30-2007, 13:54
Well...I'm not quite sure. In vanilla VI, I'd say its probably the Hungarians and catholicism. In XL, the mod I most frequently play, it generally is Pagan.(Mongols, Cumans, Lithuanians) Mongols being my favs, of course.:sweatdrop: However, probably the most fun campaign I've EVER had was as the Israelites, in Macsen's Ancient Total War mod. The first 120 years was the biggest, funnest roller coaster I've ever been on.
Hound of Ulster
11-30-2007, 17:35
The Mongol heavy cav are devastating. The XL mod, along with the PandM mod, drastically changed my faction selection. I'l play in XL as the Papal States, Ireland, Norway, the Fatimids, Sweden, England, HRE, and Byzantium. I save my Ottoman jones for PandM. Playing those single region factions leaves you no room for error at all.
No more command of French armies for you La Pucelle.
Heresy! But I still take pleasure to fight against English armies.
Annie
Well it's no secret that my two favorite factions are the Spanish and Egyptians (Castillans and Fatamids in Caravel's Pocket Mod) -- they always have been and probably always will be. :yes:
As for religions, that's a little tougher to call. As they're currently implemented, then I'll admit that overall playing as the Catholic factions are generally more fun than Muslim or Orthodox. It's hard to make a true comparison, though, as 10 out of the 15 playable factions (assuming you have VI) are Catholic; only 2 are Orthodox and 3 Muslim. If there were more playable factions with the latter two religions, it might make a difference. Of course, we'll never really know. :book:
In XL, which is what I play most it is Serbia, an they are Orthodox.
Always playing in the Early Period:
Usual favorites:
Sicilian (+: location, money, crusades/ -: no specific unit)
Danes (location, vikings, trade/ -: no crusade, too sad in 1205)
English (location, billmen, crusades/ -: rather too easy once the French are out)
French (GA Goals/ -: rather too easy once the English are out)
Turks (+: must kill the bizz very fast/ -: bizz tend to resist)
German (+:almost always close to total bankruptcy, enemies on all sides - really difficult start but good fun/ - IA gets silly and any fool with a border with you immediately attacks you - 3 battles a turn)
Aragon: let start from scrap ...
Never could finish the game:
Italians ... (location not that great, all crusades crossing your land)
Byz .... way too easy
Still need to try (and I got the game when it came out ...)
Almo
Egyptian
Russian
Hungarian
Others (Spanish, Poles) are ok but nothing to sing about IMHO
Wow, I'm playing as the English on the hardest difficulty High age campaign at present and carving up europe in a big way. Mercia is a killer province. +1 valor Billmen, plus Iron means that producing +2 Valor Billmen with +1 weapons and armour is pretty easy to do.
Combine with +1 Valor Longbows, Highland Clansmen and Gallowglasses and you have covered almost all the bases you need for a great army. You also get Hobilars from just a Horse farmer, giving access to light cavalry from even basic settlements and while you develop the necessary infrastructure to create heavier options.
Money is a bit of a problem, and getting your sea power going can be very hard, but aside from that England brings a lot to the table.
Has anyone played the Russian or People of Novgorod? I'd like to try them for the challenge value.
Has anyone played the Russian or People of Novgorod? I'd like to try them for the challenge value.
I do all the time, Boyars are very good.
Poland is a good challenge.
Annie
sharpshooter
12-05-2007, 21:23
I'm currently playing MTW VI vanilla, though have done mods on the previous computer. I've played a lot, so now I'm looking for the challenges and differences. I like all the factions for one reason or another, but if it's about favourites, then these are mine, and why and a quick recommendation about playing them.
Poland High - take out the Hungarians straight away, and grab everything from Pomerania, to Constantinople to Lithuania before the Horde arrive. After fending them off a couple of times show them the Halbs and the Arbs.
Watch your back - yes, the HRE will attack Silesia despite your alliance, and the Sicilians or Italians will pounce on Greece or Serbia when most inconvenient.
Polish Retainers are excellent at the start, good for munching Mongol Warriors, and you get Mounted XBows, and Bulgarian Brigands once MB to boot.
A shame no crusades. Religion isn't such a factor unless you go West first, and fight other catholics. Poland Early is just too easy - expand east, take all the Steppes, knock out Hungary and you'll trounce the Horde if you spin it out for their arrival.
Turkish Early and High
These are just a favourite - lots of fast units, lots of regional valour bonuses, (the AHC from Armenia are a steal and should be +2 as a priority), and a fluid style of battle. Then, after a while - yes, the JHI, undisputed heavyweight infantry champions, and fast as well. From early you can have JHI for 1205 with a fairly straight build in Constantinople. I use Rum in High.
Take out the Egyptians first, and you're rolling in money before you start trading. Take Constantinople, confine the Byz to their islands, turn them neutral, and the trade from them alone will keep you in profit if you're a non-Drinker lean army type. Do the Byz first for more of a challenge.
On Early, expand into the Steppes, rake in the cash for years, and take out the Horde in 3 or 4 turns with JHI, Xbows, and AHC+2 (should be gold topped by now). In High, play tit for tat with the Mongols over Georgia until they're committed to the Russians. If you leave single unit garrisons as far back as Constantinople for the arrival they're highly unlikely to arrive in Armenia or Syria.
Maybe they're too easy - but I really enjoy the play style, and the sheer range of units - Desert Archers and Camels are a bonus. After 30 turns in Early they're the hardest thing around. The battle style is different, with the emphasis on bows and speed, and that is the fun.
If you want more action keep assassinating those pesky bishops converting your population. Then the Pope will arrange for a more or less continuous stream of crusades for your enjoyment.
Religion isn't such a factor internally, as there's no Pope. However, it does make alliances problematic, as crusades will see your catholic allies break with you when it comes to a choice. Jihads are interesting, cheaper and quicker than crusades to build, and you can have more than one at the same time. The major issue is loyalty - watch out for generals and princes with the blackmailer vice.
The Byzantines Early
All those great cavalry units, and Varangian Guards. Crap spears, but who needs them. Lots of money. Religion not such a factor, unless you're being crusaded against. Ok, it's easy too. A fun faction to play, and maybe the one to do first if you've only played catholics before.
Aragon Late
In a word: "Lancers". Challenging to get started, but with strong agents (Spies and a Grand Inquisitor immediately available), and good units, including the Jinettes. More emphasis on strategic play early, especially fun with fleets (expect lots of pressure from the Italians).
Get the rebel territories - Valencia, Navarre, Sardinia and Malta first - maybe Tunisia. Knock the French out of Toulouse. Build crusades in Navarre, and use them to beat the Spanish to North Africa.
With a straight build you can have Lancers out of Aragon for 1389 - 78 turns into the game. Resist the urge to build anything else in Aragon - including Arbs. CMAA and Halbs come from Valencia, and you can do the Arbs in Navarre. XBows are fine to begin with.
English Late and HRE Late
It's all been said above. The English have the Longbows and Billmen, with single metalsmith bonuses from the start.
I do like the Gothic troops for the HRE - but such a long build that the game is often effectively over before they're deployed. I also like the Mounted XBows from them. The Italians are similar for units, but don't have the metalsmith bonuses. Easier trade money with the Italians, though.
Both have the usual catholic religious considerations, but my impression is that as the HRE you have to work harder to be friends with the Pope. Maybe it's just the knowledge of history, and the start size of the HRE that produces this - but maybe not.
I like playing Russia on High for the challenge, but find the choice of units limited after a while. The Boyars are excellent, though, but expensive to maintain. The Danes early are fun for the viking units, and the single province start means slower development.
Work your way through them all is my advice - then you can pick factions to fit the mood you're in.
:D
Hound of Ulster
12-05-2007, 22:59
My thoughts on factions in MTW (and XL)...
Catholic...you do have crusades, which are a cheap way not only to raise large armies, but also weaken your rivals as their soldiers flock to the standard of Christendom. Beware the Pope, for his power to take you to the theological cleaners with excommunication makes fighting other Catholic factions very difficult.
Orthodox...Byzantium may look like they are easy in Early, but if you go long enough in a campaign, even if you knock them out, the Turks keep coming back for more like zombies in a horror movie. Catholic factions may screw you over by Crusading against you instead of the Muslims. The Russians (and related XL factions) have a differant problem, especially in High: the Golden Horde. You may unite all of the Russias under your standard, but before you can really use these very lucrative territories as a base for further expansion, the Golden Horde come at you hammer and tongs with at least 5 full stacks of elite units.
Muslim...easy to play, but hard to control. As your generals are fairly easy to bribe, rebellions are always a problem. Not having princesses to marry into other factions is also a huge drawback, but you do get lots of elite bodyguard units instead. Once one or two Catholic factions deciede to Crusade, you'll have a lot of difficulty keeping control of your territories for an extended period.
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