View Full Version : Creative Assembly MP patch work
GilJaysmith
09-12-2002, 03:57
There are plenty of other fixes, this is just my list for your excitement and edification.
Please comment on anything you see which looks like it falls into my areas - see credits for details.
Already done
Menus
CD key text prompts clarified, format validated, o's automatically changed to 0's.
Improved messages for GameSpy logon failures.
GameSpy login and logout slightly faster... logout now with popup saying "Logging off" to suggest it hasn't crashed.
Redirect people to a nice URL after they finish registering at GameSpy after clicking on the Register menu option.
Improved performance on chatroom menu.
Correctly handle multiple MP games with the same server name.
Remember selected player name in chatrooms (won't reset to 'Room' every time someone joins or leaves).
Correctly reset 'playing' status for players after they finish an MP game.
Players no longer disappear from the player list even though they're still in the room.
Turned off keyboard typing and player join/leave sounds in MP menus.
Console commands: #ignore, #unignore, #afk
Text warning added to MP Hosting menu about how firewalls and routers affect whether the game will be visible.
Notification whenever someone hosts a game (X has hosted a game called 'name')
Battlemap
One cause of crashouts fixed in MP game startup.
Don't rout a player's army if they get dropped from an MP game.
Battle radar no longer shows troops which weren't visible on the battlemap.
Various fixes for MP and reinforcement-heavy replays.
Artillery 'footprint' not left on battlemap if recycled as reinforcement.
Enemy armies are no longer visible after you and they have deployed but before battle commences.
Mousing over enemy artillery no longer tells you how its reload cycle is going.
A host who presses Escape in MP battle will get a quit dialog warning them that everyone else will be dropped from the game.
Things I'm looking at, or hoping to look at
(Feedback encouraged for the non-bugfix items here)
Menus
Fix crashes on Join Game / Host Game.
Problems with game list not showing games.
The font.
Spurious "player is cheating" messages. (I followed the instructions someone posted me and can't reproduce this.)
Try to remove those 10-digit numbers on people's names.
Sort internet game list by clicking on column headings.
Console commands #buddy and #unbuddy, which will give you "X has entered" and "X has left" messages for anyone on your buddy list.
Console command to ban a named player from joining any game you host.
Console command to join a named player in whichever game he's in.
Battlemap
Maybe change MP deployment zones so they don't overlap.
I can also tell you that, thanks to Target, 'T' is now 'Send To All' and 'Y' is 'Send To Allies', so no need for mouse movement there. Target is now hard at work on the 'two players with the same faction' feature.
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Gil ~ CA
quote:
MagyarKhans Cham:
jeeez what brilliant mind programmed that?
Great to hear it. Thanks, one suggestion.
It would be really nice if there was some way to differentiate text that was said to the whole room, only to the game you are in, and only to your game allies.
Such as having them be different colors. It's really hard to notice allies etc talking to you some times unless you filter public chat. All the text looks really similar.
Also the message that someone is hosting a game should be a different color from normal chat.
[This message has been edited by Action (edited 09-11-2002).]
TenkiSoratoti
09-12-2002, 04:13
i think alot would agree that crashing to desktop when joining and hosting is the one to get done ASAP.
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"The good fighters of the old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an oppurtunity to defeat the enemy."
Goedfroy
09-12-2002, 04:18
Great news Gil !!!
Can't wait for the #ignore .... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Good to know indeed, thanks! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Some of them are obvious fixes, but others will make many well happy!
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Kraellin
09-12-2002, 04:39
that's quite a list, gil. i particularly like the last few.
a couple i dont remember seeing:
private chat sometimes drops out back to public chat.
game map is only displayed to host and not other joined players.
extra hidden florins for anyone named Kraellin.
-10% florins for anyone from CA.
remove games in progress from the game listing. no reason to have them up there, or perhaps they could be moved to the bottom of the list and new games just now starting could be moved to the top.
make all cav unavailable for magyarkhan.
i think yuuki (puzz3d) also suggested changing the stat file compability check to after the game launches, but before deployment is done.
it would also be nice if the host name was displayed in one of those top fields. server names like 'join my game!' are ok, but it's nice to be able to find a particular person's game, especially for clan players.
add "crack brain" v&v to monsta's general in all of his games.
i think that's about it :)
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
GilJaysmith
09-12-2002, 04:41
Quote Originally posted by Action:
It would be really nice if there was some way to differentiate text that was said to the whole room, only to the game you are in, and only to your game allies.
[This message has been edited by Action (edited 09-11-2002).][/QUOTE]
It's true, in the game lobbies there's no way to tell whether a message is to you, the team, the game, or the room at large - unless you filter out messages to the room.
Colour is a possibility, but if I can't figure out how to do that satisfactorily, I'll change the format of the 'from' label to clarify things, e.g.:
--> Gil has hosted a battle called 'Panda'
[Gil] Join my game called 'Panda' for a lollipop.
[RoomUser] iz there a CRACK? i am downloadin this of kazaa right now
--> You are now ignoring RoomUser
[Gil->Game] Is everyone happy with factions?
[Action->Game] Yep.
[Action->Gil] These fixes are amazing - what a legend you are Gil.
[Gil->Action] Nice of you to say so, squire.
[n00B->Game] Host press ACCEPT already!
[Gil->Allies] What's everyone bringing?
[Action->Allies] Tanks. (Nice new unit BTW, but did the Elmos really have them?)
... etc ...
Gil ~ CA
Yeah , ignore and the 'y', those are good, not counting all the bugs.
When will we perhaps see it?
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You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Major Robert Dump
09-12-2002, 04:48
Thanks Giljay I apppreciate the prompt work considereing the game hasnt been out very long. You boys already have me bought over the last varmints.
GL on the patch
GilJaysmith
09-12-2002, 04:53
Quote Originally posted by Kraellin:
private chat sometimes drops out back to public chat.[/QUOTE]
That's this one:
Remember selected player name in chatrooms (won't reset to 'Room' every time someone joins or leaves).
Quote
game map is only displayed to host and not other joined players.
[/QUOTE]
I'll try to add a popup or something for that.
Quote
extra hidden florins for anyone named Kraellin.
-10% florins for anyone from CA.
[/QUOTE]
Uh huh.
Quote
remove games in progress from the game listing. no reason to have them up there, or perhaps they could be moved to the bottom of the list and new games just now starting could be moved to the top.
[/QUOTE]
The latter I think.
Quote
make all cav unavailable for magyarkhan.
[/QUOTE]
Retro me, Satanus...
Quote
i think yuuki (puzz3d) also suggested changing the stat file compability check to after the game launches, but before deployment is done.
[/QUOTE]
I didn't mention that because it has somewhat limited relevance... but yes, I'm hoping to do that.
Quote
it would also be nice if the host name was displayed in one of those top fields. server names like 'join my game!' are ok, but it's nice to be able to find a particular person's game, especially for clan players.
[/QUOTE]
Considering what to do about that. My assessment of chatroom messages by relative volume is:
1) " more needed in "
2) That Herman guy
3) "Which game are you in?" / "I'm in game "
4) Everything else
So I guess cutting out the need for that third type of message would be useful.
Quote
add "crack brain" v&v to monsta's general in all of his games.
[/QUOTE]
I suppose you'd want me to take it off your general while I'm at it :)
Gil ~ CA
MagyarKhans Cham
09-12-2002, 05:01
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If you hide units in the woods they are also invisible for u on teh minimap, why isnt that chanced?
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why is this changed?
"Mousing over enemy artillery no longer tells you how its reload cycle is going."
btw we noticed that artillery range cannot be checked with teh red arrow like bowmen can.
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can u try to find the annoying scroll lock bug?
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Thanks Target
"Target is now hard at work on the 'two players with the same faction' feature."
btw some fractions have the same bannercolors, its a bit confusing.
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Highly agree with tenki
"i think alot would agree that crashing to desktop when joining and hosting is the one to get done ASAP"
so skip the "hoping" part here...
"Things I'm looking at, or hoping to look at"
that sentence should be.....
"Guys to make u all love me in eternity i will fix all whats in my unlimited power. Only an act of God almighty can stop me solving the bugs."
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Finally we have a reason to hunt the Mizus, their family and offspring http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
"make all cav unavailable for magyarkhan"
our Khan will be pleased
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And my Khan did allow me to say that if u release the patch before the Dutch meeting and u actually appear in TheHague u get a moment for free talking to his principal wife.
Go Gil, get debugging teh stuff and we will raise a statue for u, Target and Longjohn1-2
RageMonsta
09-12-2002, 05:04
What happened to-
Instant cup of tea for old Monsta and his tired limbs?
or
Instant replay of Magyar's General doing a diving header of a rock in 2v2.
'goooooooallll but he is dead in 1.2 seconds!'
oh ok...what you got will do for now http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by RageMonsta (edited 09-11-2002).]
1dread1lahll
09-12-2002, 05:06
Thx gil...your work is appreciated.. what about the little battle map preview that was in shogun? Really do hate getting into some silly bridge map and not knowing till game starts.....
GilJaysmith
09-12-2002, 05:19
Quote why is this changed?
"Mousing over enemy artillery no longer tells you how its reload cycle is going."
[/QUOTE]
It's privileged information... you don't get to see whether enemy archers are out of arrows, or what morale/exhaustion they have. You'll still see that they're "Firing".
Quote
If you hide units in the woods they are also invisible for u on teh minimap, why isnt that chanced?
[/QUOTE]
Evidently because no-one's ever noticed it before. Now on list.
Quote
btw we noticed that artillery range cannot be checked with teh red arrow like bowmen can.
[/QUOTE]
Annoying isn't it? Now on list.
Quote
can u try to find the annoying scroll lock bug?
[/QUOTE]
Is this the way the Num 1 and Num 3 keys sometimes stick until you tap them again, or something else?
Quote
And my Khan did allow me to say that if u release the patch before the Dutch meeting and u actually appear in TheHague u get a moment for free talking to his principal wife.
[/QUOTE]
Bad news there: none of us can make it to The Hague after all. (In any case the patch won't be released by then.) Maybe next time...
Gil ~ CA
GilJaysmith
09-12-2002, 05:29
Quote Originally posted by 1dread1lahll:
Thx gil...your work is appreciated.. what about the little battle map preview that was in shogun? Really do hate getting into some silly bridge map and not knowing till game starts.....[/QUOTE]
I took out that screen because no-one had the time to write 370 accurate map descriptions. But it's been suggested to us that we could reinstate the menu and display a custom description provided by you lot if a suitable text file can be found. This menu would also be a handy opportunity to show the host's options in detail, and to show off the scrolling panoramic image for the map.
So it's a good idea but I don't think we've got time to get it done this time. I'll probably only have time to bodge in some kind of reminder on the Army Select screen.
Gil ~ CA
MagyarKhans Cham
09-12-2002, 05:33
ho sorry i misread it, it said enemy artillery.. pfeeew
no the scroll bars (in chat and mapselection), many people find them locking up after a while. in old shog there was a nice "workaround" where u start hosting a game, move the mapselectionscrollbar and this stopped also teh chatbar from being stuck.
but now we are robbed of this workaround i thought, what the heck lets mention it again...
yeah monsta that rock-heading was nice.
sorry to hear Gil u couldnt make it. promise us that u will come to the meeting in London early next year.
those are nice changes, good job!
feedback:
"Fix crashes on Join Game / Host Game."
i think its a graphice problem, coz the error.log shows d3d_surfacelost when it happens.
"The font."
the chat room should use standard font like the in game chat. the fansy font is good for menu and stuff, but for chat, clarity is the priority.
"Maybe change MP deployment zones so they don't overlap."
please fix that in some coastal maps, the players on the inland edge get their deploy zone cut in half by the map edge.
suggestions:
a refresh button in the foyer that updates the game and player list, just in case some game or player doesnt show up for some reason.
make the games that are full or in progress grey.
for in game chat, public, private, and system messages have different colors.
have a free-for-all game mode, no team, most kills win.
give the host a rematch option after the game. so players go back to the join game screen instead of the foyer. this saves the trouble of making another game, joining again, and asking the plyers who wasn't in last game to leave.
allow us to merge same type of units on battlefieled. units with a few men left are very easy to rout, if we merge them into a single unit, they can hold longer.
oh and maybe give calvery the ablility to toll seige engine. and soldiers can set fire in woods to burn the campers. just some crazy thoughts http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Nice work Gil. Many thanks. Appreciate the new [T] and [Y] for msg to different parties. The font for chat has to be improved to a neat one, not too fanciful. How about the below if its not too troublesome to change?
1. Unit recall key - change from ctrl+num to just num, while the current formation keys go elsewhere? or make that configurable by end-users. The principle is that the most frequently used key-stroke should be as simple as possible (as Kocmoc said).
2. Introduction a new mechanism, if none exist now, for selecting a group by clicking a unit of that group in the main battlescreen (not the icon/groupbar). E.g. ctrl+right_click on a unit will select the group it belongs, but will popup the command menu. So a key-stroke(s) to do the same thing but w/o the menu coming up.
3. Setting fire to woods, I like that idea (u r serious right Polar?).
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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
loyal roach of Clan S.G. (http://thesilvergazwa.tripod.com)
'Pa Si Buay Chao! Si Liao Ka Song!'
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Here's one:
When the chat window is scrolling by pretty fast and you want to read a message you missed, you grab the scrollbar with the mouse cursor and if someone sends a new message to chat, it bumps it back to the bottom. Can it be made so that the scrollbar's position in a window is fixed and isn't automatically bumped to the bottom by a new message?
Another:
Add another digit to the florin limit in Multiplayer and also in Custom Game so it maxes at 999,999.
Quote Don't rout a player's army if they get dropped from an MP game.
[/QUOTE]
Odd, I thought most of us liked it the way it is. Routing their army is logical... unless the AI is going to ACTIVELY PLAY the army, it's just going to sit there and be more nuisance than use.
[This message has been edited by JRock (edited 09-12-2002).]
ElmarkOFear
09-12-2002, 09:52
[Gil->Allies] What's everyone bringing?
[Action->Allies] Tanks. (Nice new unit BTW, but did the Elmos really have them?)
OoOoOoOoOoOH The new ElmoHead tank unit!! I can't wait!!! LOL Elmo puts in order for 16 units with armor upgrades.
Sounds good Gil, Target and LongJohn. I am very glad to receive this info. on the patch status and you have covered all of my concerns once ole Target finds a way to allow more than one player to play the same faction in the same game!! wooohooo Then we can host faction wars!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Quote Originally posted by Polar:
have a free-for-all game mode, no team, most kills win.
[/QUOTE]
That would be SO cool, and in that vein, so would being able to have more than 2 teams fielded - an option for 2, 3, or 4 teams would be awesome, but then all the maps would have to be coded to have different start spot layouts depending on number of teams, otherwise people would start too close to enemies, etc, with the current starts. =\
Kraellin
09-12-2002, 10:03
"I suppose you'd want me to take it off your general while I'm at it :)
Gil ~ CA"
cant, it's hardcoded beyond even your talents.
i think i shld have been british. ;)
nice changes, gil.
jrock,
it's better to leave the dropped army there. one team is now a player short and at a severe disadvantage. the short team can at least use the dropped army as a diversion or shield and somewhat even up the sides by doing so. true, it would be nice if the ai took over, but that's not gonna happen in a patch, i would think.
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
WOW ..... this is great.
Gil, I have been a player of Shogun then Mongol for quit some time, but in the last 6 months could hac it no longer (you know what I mean) and while I uninstalled the game (I only ever played online), I swore never to buy a TotalWar product again.
You presence here makes it evident that things are going to be different this time round, its great to have you here. Thankyou for restoring my faith, I shall go right now and buy it and only swear not to but a game with EA on it.
Cheers
Hi Mist. Long time since we played together. Still remember old goldfish?
One more.. maybe a text-2-speech for the battlechat? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
hmmm,
good this menu changes!
but on the battlemap?!?
i think there are things left wich was important! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
the droped army dont rout now! lol
this was 1 of the big good improvement imo!
i know some of us dont like it but think twice and u will see that this is the best!
1 opponent just stay back and dont fight!
if its 1v1 game is over anyway..... but if the droped player stay, u still will lose vs a good team, so better play it without the droped army and 1 enemy draw back!
the unitflags are not solved!
the colours are not solved!
what is with some better controll-keys?
what is with filter the units? like the nonchasing h2hunits?
fatique?
startposition of the factions?
it still seems, that just a few member of our comunity have an opinion about a matter and than it changed like they want! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
if u want i can show u how bad it is if they enemy army DONT ROUT!
but ok, i have to accept this, but i pray for this guys that they have some allys wich drop and i can rout theyr droped ally where they will hide! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
than its stupid to play such games on, coz in the middle of hte field there is an army wich do nothing u cant move, u will become shoot....and the other guy hasnt not a chance its just waste time of 3 or 5 players!
but it seems my ideas are stupid or at least bad/shit or whatever. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
so go on change ur things and make a minority happy. if the units get changed too and this boys get theyr stats we wil lface the same probs like in MI than the majority will arque again ..... good times ahead ...lol
i will just stop with my input coz i dont see any of my ideas accepted ...
koc
Thanks for the info Gil, and all the work on the bug fixes and features.
I do agree with Kocmoc, that the dropped army leaving the battlefield allows you to continue with a normal game, and everyone in the game knows immediately that someone has left or dropped. I've actually been in many STW and WE/MI battles where players faked dropping to trick their enemies into thinking they were gone. That wouldn't be possible in a real battle. With the dropped army leaving, one player on the other team can just hold back or withdraw and you have a normal game again. I don't understand why people want to continue the battle with one of these dropped armies present. It's an artifical situation requiring specialized tactics that doesn't do much to help improve your standard game.
However, the biggest surprise to me is that you've changed it. Where is the large number of people wanting this changed? Do most players actually want dropped armies to stand around doing nothing? I hope players will give some serious thought to whether they want a dropped army to stay or leave.
I have seen the scroll lock quite a few times. It happens when I come back from a battle to the foyer. The scroll bars for text can get frozen. A restart of the game is required to fix it. Also, my crashes to desktop when hosting seem to happen after returning fron a game, host another and seeing the standard hosting screen with no faction shields or other info displayed.
i agree, a dropped player's army should withdraw off the battlefield, not rout though as that might affect morale?
do you have any information on the intended SP changes done and awaiting to be done?
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by +DOC+ (edited 09-12-2002).]
GilJaysmith
09-12-2002, 18:34
Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
However, the biggest surprise to me is that you've changed it. Where is the large number of people wanting this changed? Do most players actually want dropped armies to stand around doing nothing? I hope players will give some serious thought to whether they want a dropped army to stay or leave.
[/QUOTE]
That's why I posted the list... so I could find out what a wider range of people thought about things. Longjohn doesn't like "rout-when-dropped", but I do. So I want some external input, all of which thusfar (half a dozen or fewer) has been in favour of not routing. Changing it one way or the other is trivial enough by itself, but if, for example, you wanted it selectable by the host, that's much more work. So I'd rather fix it one way or the other.
Another option would be to rout the army if the player deliberately quits out but not if they drop for some reason.
Gil ~ CA
Well lets face it, playing a 3v3 and half way through the battle you realise someone's not there (i.e. dropped) means the battle is heavily one-sided and often unsatisfying. At least if the missing player's army leavesa at the start everybody is aware of the situation and can carry on taking this into account (i.e. no-one is relying on the dropped player's troops for support only to find it's not coming).
By the way wouldn't it be better if the dropped player's army withdrew rather than routed, thereby negating any negative morale effects a rout might cause to his allies?
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=MizuDoc Otomo=
Konnichiwa,
Just to keep this discussion 'clean':
STW did not tell when a player dropped/quited: MTW gives a server message when a player 'leaves'. The player is also greyed out in the F1 status window.
Allow me to make a step ahead, please. What will we do when comp games are introduced? What if the host is an attacker and 1 of the defenders drops? The defenders are (rankwise, in the hands and mercy of the attackers). The defenders can't escape without losing rankingpoints, the attackers can go for the easy victory and attack with full force. Not that I care, not at all, as comp games are not my thing. The problem for me starts when these players return to the foyer.
I would ask comp players to think about this too, before speaking.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
However, the biggest surprise to me is that you've changed it. Where is the large number of people wanting this changed? Do most players actually want dropped armies to stand around doing nothing? I hope players will give some serious thought to whether they want a dropped army to stay or leave.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I just said that a few posts above yours.
good point tosa!
but guys who do this are fools and this guys i wont play again!
for me its more important what happand in battles vs guys i know well and its fun to play!
so many guys escaped me in comp games and i nearly always joined other, so i personal dont care about this.
yes, this will hapend too, but imo its better to fight 1v2 thsi guys who want to play on and just take an easy win as to play with an droped ally and an inaktiv army, i already mentioned this! ::::
it is extrem easy to kick this droped army out and with this all-directon-routing its much more dangerous for u. its better to play this guys 1v2 as have such an army nearby....if they go slow and make this guy rout u have some probs....
u cant move in this direction, u need to move to an other place, hiding in an army wich is droped is stupid...so at all its better this army isnt on the field and u have all options to beat this guys 1v2!
but let us face the normal situation....normaly we play friendlys and play mostly with friend and guys we know well....so theyr will always be a good solution for all...at least in an 3v3 4 players can play a 2v2 without an army wich is stuck in the middle of the battlefield.
i thougth that this routing army dont effeckt ur army, if im wrong yes...a draw back would be better.
koc
In MI and STW only the host knew that a player dropped + army was still there. These created problems as described by Yuuki and Tosa but I will describe more.
Sometimes the host didn't inform that a player was dropped - accidentally or not doesn't matter. Many continued fighting and realised their allies / enemies were dropped only when it was too late. I like the new feature that all players are informed and they're greyed out of the F1 panel. Another problem was that the army stayed there and one could make use of it by hiding his troops in them ...leading to a useless, boring and really dishonourable battle. I agree 100% that when a player is dropped his army either routs (that would cause a morale penalty for allies) or else it dissapears without giving any morale penalty which would penalise the dropped player's side even more.
Tera
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
[This message has been edited by Terazawa Tokugawa (edited 09-12-2002).]
Vinsitor
09-12-2002, 21:51
Agree with Tera.
I suggest also to make the army disappear when a player push "ESC" button.
In this case when one drops (and so his army disappears from the battelfield), one of the opponent can esc himself from the game, leaving his friends to play a 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 game.
ElmarkOFear
09-12-2002, 22:39
The only problem I had with the partner's army routing off the field was that it often takes you with it. In close fought battles, even a partner with only 2 units left, when he routs by escaping out, he could rout your whole army. I have had it happen several times and it is definitely NOT fun.
The players who want to leave the rout in, do not normally rush into hand to hand battle, it is understandable that your partner routing when escaping is not a big deal to you. I am of the opposite style normally and committ my whole army to the battle and it effects me greatly.
SOLUTION: Removing the army of the escaper or person who dropped from server is fine by me and probably most others. The hit to morale the routing does is the problem. If you can remove the morale hit for escaped and dropped players this would solve the problem. Or maybe it would be easier to just make the dropped person's army dissapear immediately off the battlefield as if they were ghosts. That would probably be the better solution anyways.
I vote for removal of dropped person's army immediately from the battlefied and not routing. Also make sure any effects to morale are eliminated be a partners dropped army.
MagyarKhans Cham
09-12-2002, 22:57
but why not let the units fight to the death?
let the units attack all most closeby enemy units like an uncontrolled madman. when we talk about having ballanced games this comes most close within its programming limits for thge devs.
we know that this can be done since in old shog armies kept on fighting, where u could hide in the dropped players army
ElmarkOFear
09-12-2002, 23:11
I do not think that Kocmoc agrees with you on this Magya. Anyways I spoke with him today to get clarification on what he was trying to say. I will help to translate it since I think something was lost in his post do to the language barrier.
Kocmoc would like to see the dropped player's army either withdraw or rout off map, but with no morale penalty for those partners still in the game.
The thing he doesnt like about the army staying around is: In most cases the battle is lost by the dropped partner's allies and it makes for a boring game to have to go hunt down one unit hiding amongst all the dropped player's units. Since experienced players know how to win against a dropped army, but it takes a long time.
If I am wrong I apologize to Kocmoc, but that is how I understand his thoughts to be from his previous post and speaking with him in the lobby just now.
Another possible option: give dropped armies to the AI ...at least he will continue fighting. Would it be possible?
As I suggested in my post, army dissapearing when players is dropped OR withdrawing (not routing) would be a great option...rather than routing with all the morale penalties related to it.
Tera
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
[This message has been edited by Terazawa Tokugawa (edited 09-12-2002).]
Summary of the thread:
Either have the AI take over and actively fight the dropped player's army or have it rout off the field without a morale penalty to the routed army's teammate armies.
I was wondering why there so much discussion over a dropped player. When player drop from the start, 99.9% peep will restart the game. if halfway, either ways the game is not gonna be enjoyable anymore, because things become so artificial,e.g. one from the other side has to holdback, gone-player armies rout thru u/stay where he is..
There are more important aspect to be improved. I see the above discussion as leading no where, as we are talking about improving the gameplay of games that arent gonnabe fun 90% of them. So brainstorm on other aspects.
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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
loyal roach of Clan S.G. (http://thesilvergazwa.tripod.com)
'Pa Si Buay Chao! Si Liao Ka Song!'
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Just to post a counter-point to that - everytime I've been in a 3vs3 or 4vs4 where one player drops, the rest of us just keep on playing because we know it's so darn hard to actually get a game started and working we just enjoy any game we can even get running.
My experience is that in pickup games people play on even with drops. In clan games, you'll usually go back and fetch someone who dropped because you know they'll be waiting, and you want to play with the full lineup to develop your team game skills. I was in a 3v3 where the enemy center guy escaped because he didn't like the team's strategic battle plan, and my team still lost. The game wasn't ruined at all, and was a valuable learning experience for regular games.
Vinsitor
09-13-2002, 00:44
For me the best is dissapearing units (I said also about "ESC") but is best to see a withdrawing unit, not routing (apart the morale problem) in all direction, but all the army in the same as they was going back home http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Yuuki is right, but I'll add to it. People dropping from games (especially with crash to desktops / battle crashes) are very common right now in the early stages of the game. And the problem of dropped players' armies is evident because it's so common (even in the relatevely stable STW/MI it was evident)- big or small I would like it to be fixed and I believe we all would like that.
How to be fixed is the discussion now...
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Kraellin
09-13-2002, 01:06
well, i was one of those that originally posted to put it back like it was in stw/we/mi, but after reading this discussion again, i can see a good point for leaving it with units withdrawing. after all, isnt that more realistic. a general quits the field and takes his army with him. but, what i dont agree with is that you ALSO want no morale penalty given, but, wouldnt there be one, if we're keeping to reality here? wouldnt 4 armies losing 1 whole army and still facing 4 other armies, go, 'whoa! i dont know about this now?'. so, to me, if yer gonna ask for it to be kept with the armies withdrawing, then you have no business asking for it to also not take a morale hit. sounds like a case of wanting your cake and eating it too, to me.
and, just as another point here, if someone quits on purpose, isnt that also somewhat realistic? you've just been betrayed...take the morale hit of betrayal and live with it. sure it stinks that some do that, but hey, what do you want, grapefruit? (sorry, old joke :)
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
Quote Originally posted by Kraellin:
what i dont agree with is that you ALSO want no morale penalty given, but, wouldnt there be one, if we're keeping to reality here? [/QUOTE]
But this is the part where we break with reality, because in reality generals don't lose connection with reality the way players lose connection with the game.
See the withdrawal from battle in reality is translated into withdrawal from battle in the game. There is no way that a general would suddenly phase out of existence as a human being in the middle of battle (unless mortality rates among human beings suddenly skyrocketed) so there is no comparison in reality to a player being disconnected from the game. See what I'm saying? So because it's a game-only occurance, there should not be a real-world penalty added to the occurance.
Er, it's kinda hard to explain this. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
GilJaysmith
09-13-2002, 04:05
It hadn't actually occurred to me to withdraw the army... probably because it's not a command I use very often.
It sounds like withdrawing the dropped player's army in good order might be the best approach. This would remove them from the battlefield without looking like mass teleportation on the one hand or causing allies to panic on the other.
Any significantly strong opinions in favour of one of the alternatives? If not then it seems that this would at least not dissatisfy anyone.
Gil ~ CA
Withdrawing would be probably the best option - no morale penalty and a 'clean' way to clear off the army of a dropped player.
Question: Does withdrawing work like routing...(ie. units won't withdraw through enemy lines?) I hadn't the opportunity to test it. Mass withdrawing into the battle brawl would be the only bad side of a very good solution to this problem..
That apart, thanks and thumbs up!
Tera.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
[This message has been edited by Terazawa Tokugawa (edited 09-12-2002).]
Well if you in a 2v2 or 3v3 etc... and a player drops ... I have found from playing shogun that you need to use all the elements to your advantage no matter what the situation, computer problems just add a new dynamic to the game which we all have to live with at times.
So I think best to leave them on the field .... they can be used as cover ... and there missiles are still useful ... you can emerse yourself in there .... protect your general ... etc... Just getting creamed by 2v1 or ther is not my idea of fun ... If poss...I vote that it would be good if the AI kicked in and took over.
However, there still should be some notification that the player has dropped and not keep it a mystery.
Actually what would be really cool is if the drop player could re-enter ...... Reinforcements have arrived !!!!!!! LOL
KukriKhan
09-13-2002, 07:20
Oustanding list of fixes GJSimth.
On the removal of dropped player armies: I like Kraellin's approach of staying realistic, were possible.
A drop for tech reasons is like an army showing up without it's pants or weapons. Big oops - gonna march back to the (off-screen) rear and suit up. Withdrawal without allie penalty sounds right there.
A drop because the player "Esc"'d is a bit trickier: in real life one would chose one's allies carefully, and a penalty assessed because an ally quit would seem appropriate. But in our TW situation, we only pick our side (attack/defend), not our allies, per se. So (to me) diverging from reality is right here: withdraw w/o penalty.
In STW, I have 'stepped aside' when my side had the advantage from a drop. Got to watch (cool in itself) and usually the victor wanted to take me on later. If not, I'd rout myself at the end of their battle. No prob, all happy.
Finally: love the 'T' and 'Y' key thing; switching from keyboard to mouse sucked.
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https://jimcee.homestead.com/files/bowman2_k_5.gif
Elrich of Gaul
09-13-2002, 08:41
Gil.. you mentioned how while in game, you would use something similar to this:
Action--->Gil: what are you bringing.?
Is that a direction arrow to specify whom is talking to whom.?
If so... how cluttered will the screen look when you get a situation like this.?:
Wingawongnumber--->MajesticalImAllAloneKokeno
see what I mean.? Some peeps will have huge names.. doesn't leave much room for the actual typing.
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"I will follow you anywhere my brother, my captain, my King"
Elrich
Dionysus9
09-13-2002, 09:51
The best possible scenario is that the AI controls the troops until the old player links back up with the game. Thats not gonna happen.
A well ordered withdrawal is probably the easiest for you to do right now, and as you say, it would probably not make you any enemies.
I would prefer that the AI takeover the army, though, to help ameliorate the loss of a human ally. even if it is just a beginner AI, its better than static troops who just sit there facing the wrong way....
If troops could Withdraw with as much sense as they Rout, you WOULD be using the Withdraw command more Gil!
Like i said earlier, withdrawal without a negative morale hit is the only fair way for the person who's dropped and their allies. Then it's up to the rest who are playing to decide whether it's worthwhile continuing under the circumstances.
Even if someone presses the ESC when it's going badly it should still be a withdrawal as the opposition can still turn his withdrawal into a rout by pressing home their current advantage. Furthermore, if someone were to drop and qnother player from the other team decide to leave to even it up then his ESCaping would only result in a withdrawal as it should.
After all, in real time gameplay he could actually press ctrl W for the same effect, just ESC is quicker. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Simple http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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=MizuDoc Otomo=
[This message has been edited by +DOC+ (edited 09-13-2002).]
7bear7Blade
09-13-2002, 15:07
And where can i get that patch?
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Ehre heisst treue
Alles hat ein Ende,Nur die Wurst hat Zwei
MagyarKhans Cham
09-13-2002, 16:01
i hope this wont focus to much on a dropped player cuz there are other major things to be fixed.... the bugs
GilJaysmith
09-13-2002, 16:03
Quote Originally posted by Elrich of Gaul:
see what I mean.? Some peeps will have huge names.. doesn't leave much room for the actual typing.
[/QUOTE]
Don't worry, I'm going to try to use colours before I fall back upon the arrow solution.
Having investigated this a bit further, I might have been a bit optimistic... I can tell whether a message is private or not, but I can't tell who else it was to, so figuring out whether it was to Game or Allies may prove impossible.
Oh well; at least system messages will be distinctive.
Gil ~ CA
NinjaKilla
09-13-2002, 16:29
Any news on fatigue?
While I appreciate that we should look beyond MTW in STW term, I just find that games at the moment are longer than they need to be because at the end you find two battered armies sat looking at one another accross the map while they recover from fatigue.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
MagyarKhans Cham
09-13-2002, 16:47
perhaps thats realistic as well http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Vinsitor
09-13-2002, 17:03
Another "fix": LAG http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Too lag, friends... the game run in a decent way only on big machines, it don't reflect the hw requirements shown in the manual.
Also reducing resolution the problem still remains, especially for nVidia's cards owners.
Many players have a GeForce4 and PIV, but other still have GeForce2 MX and PII/III.
I speak only about SP big battles, not about multy, I don't know how the game runs in multiplayer...
PLS help player to have fun playng this fantastic game, say that you are working also on the "compatibility" and the support!
I have an Athlon XP 1800+ with 256mb pc2700 ddr ram but only a TNT2 32mb. It runs fine...these are some things that help:
1. turn off fauna and smoke
2. run 800x600 resolution or lower
3. defrag drives
4. turn sound quality to low or turn it off
5. get the latest drivers for your hardware
That aside, I think there is an almost totally mutual agreement that a dropped player's army should be withdrawn cleanly without any morale penalties.
Apart from that the list is excellent.
More bugs?
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Vinsitor
09-13-2002, 19:24
Grazie Tera, and sorry for my last post, but I realise at last it was a bit "offtopic" http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif, I'll stop this discussion here.
I have already done all this things (and many friends of mine), but for me this game is still to "laggy" in SP with many units, how it could be possible?
(I have a PIII 1GHz, GeForce 32MB DDR and, 512MB SDRAM)
Kraellin
09-13-2002, 19:27
gil,
doesnt it reference the team assignments like it did in stw/we/mi? reference assignments, assign channel, double linked list or whatever, and chat?
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
People with high-end systems shouldn't have to run the game in 800x600. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif
Anyway, THAT is the issue I've been consistently forgetting to ask to be patched:
When you are in a game chatroom and send a message only to Game Allies, your allies can't tell the difference b/w it and a message to the whole Room or the whole Game. Would be nice to have a distinction made, but I think you just said you don't know how to pull that off. =\
NinjaKilla
09-13-2002, 22:39
Gil also is it possible to make it so that when you drag multiple units into position they always deploy in the same number of ranks.
Its annoying when ur trying to deploy archers that have taken some casualties and like 2 units will be in 3 ranks while the third stands in 5 ranks.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
NinjaKilla,
Right click while you have the group selected and it will reform the depth of the formation. It actually seems to be a toggle so you can go back an forth between two possible configurations.
I think LongJohn has made it clear that the current level of fatigue is intended to make the battlefield seem like a bigger place than it did in Shogun. Large 3v3 and 4v4 MTW battle will take longer to play out than they did in Shogun.
Dionysus9
09-13-2002, 23:51
Quote Originally posted by 7bear7Blade:
And where can i get that patch?
[/QUOTE]
They are still working on it Blade, he says "already done" meaning that part of the patch is complete, but still more to do before release.
Must be soon now tho.
GAH!
Vanya sez... leave absent player troops on field. Allies can hide in their midst if need be. It was how Shoggy was. Why not MTW?
If youz want to keep things square... if one player drops, youz could withdraw his men AND the weakest non-host from the other side too.
GAH!
But, the first is the easiest and the best.
GAH!
Vinsitor
09-14-2002, 00:06
I'm not shure, but another tip can be to save a particular combination of units/valour/armour/ecc and its particular deployment in the battlefield, to re-use it the next times...
Pussiecat
09-14-2002, 02:37
Hi
I agree with Ninjakiller that it is annoying when you drag multiple units and some have very deep formations, whilst others have only a couple of ranks.
One other thing I would like to see would be an identifier on the unit icons to distinuish whether that unit is fighting against a unit which is actually fighting back, or chasing a routing unit. I would find this especially useful now that routers run in every direction and it an sometimes be hard to keepo your army together and organised - Its annoying to see your units with standard fight icons then to see them at the other end of the map.
Regards
Steve
Quote Originally posted by Vanya:
GAH!
Vanya sez... leave absent player troops on field. Allies can hide in their midst if need be. It was how Shoggy was. Why not MTW?
If youz want to keep things square... if one player drops, youz could withdraw his men AND the weakest non-host from the other side too.
GAH!
But, the first is the easiest and the best.
GAH![/QUOTE]
Nah, neither of your suggestions is any good. It's fine the way it is, although it should be Withdraw, not Rout, so it doesn't hurt the morale of teammates.
CaPeFeAr
09-14-2002, 07:45
i apoligise for not having joined this topic earlier and im afraid that not as many will see this 70 posts into this thread ....but there are some Major things i havent seen at all...
Each players ping to host should be displayed on the nation select screen as well as the player join screen....
chatroom command "blackmark" should be turned on... from the txt files i can see it is still coded into the chatroom.
the host of a game should have a kick player command during player join screen.
timer info needs to be displayed in the main foyer.
clan tags need to be protected
a random nation option during game setup would be nice.
the option to choose start position would be nice instead of linking them to nation... as it is now the turks will never be in the center and the almoheads will never be on the flank...
my thoughts on drops during game.... let me remind every1 that if units are withdrawing and they are engaged by enemy troops, they rout. imho the best possible fix is allowing the ai on host machine to take over dropped troops... if this is not possible... i like magyars idea of making them charge... this would be similar to real life and the death of a general.
one game variant ( currently only last man standing)that i believe would be used if available is unlimited reinforcments... only allow each player 16 units at once on field... but we should be allowed (in a varient only) to choose as many as we can with alloted florin... some might just bring 16 units of upgraded units.... some might bring 50 units of pesants.... just make sure that a player wins by routing all units on the field... this would almost be like a war instead of a battle... the possibilites are endless... but i think this feature would be of great help in a mp campaign....
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I think that CA should fix the money cheating in multiplayer.
MagyarKhans Cham
09-14-2002, 13:54
i suppose the long awaited logfile option will u there.
The taking over by the AI option wasn't considered by Gil yet (maybe it's not possible) but I like the idea of making an army charge when the player drops.
Otherwise a clean withdrawal is good, Cape said it would be bad if it brawls into enemy units; that's why imo it should work like rout and avoid getting in the circle of fighting of the enemy units.
Tera
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
MagyarKhans Cham
09-14-2002, 14:58
why do every topic u join turns into a topic about circles? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif plz stay on topic, and even dont think of it to reply this topic.
GilJaysmith
09-14-2002, 15:28
Update / comments:
I've added #ignore, #unignore, #buddy, #unbuddy, and #afk. The buddy commands let you mark players for special attention; when they join or leave you'll get a message and a sound. (It used to make the 'player join' sound every time someone joined; now only for buddies.) Ignore and unignore will suppress messages from an individual.
JRock:
Frontend running in a fixed 800x600... that annoys me too. I'd also like to widen all the parchments and get rid of that 'shadow movie' in the background, but that's not my decision and I expect plenty of people think the movie & parchment look is stylish. I'm a philistine in these matters and would rather have more room for the UI :)
CapeFear:
Blackmark command would need server support. In Shogun we had an active server which could track these things; with GameSpy we have no serverside support, so we can't do that. This is also why we can't currently kick players from the main chatroom.
On the other hand we can let the host kick players from a game, which I'll think about if I've got time. Alongside this would be a #ban command to let you permanently prevent a player from joining any game you host.
We can't do anything about protecting clan tags.
Start positions: the patch will let you choose army banners (unique) and faction for troop selection (not unique). The army banners will determine who gets deployed in the middle, so if the team's best player chooses Turkish troops he can deploy in the middle by choosing Almohad banners.
Dropped players: we'll see whether the AI can take over, but I suspect we'll just end up with an ordered withdrawal.
Magyar:
Target has indeed added logfiles.
Xer0:
I still can't reproduce the money cheating and haven't had it happen to me although two of the QA boys had it in games online. I'm presuming it must be a bug, because if someone edits the costs in the unit production spreadsheet, there should be a version conflict message which will stop them joining the game. So I'm a bit confused, but will carry on looking into it. If any group of you can find a way to reproduce the message in a guaranteed fashion, that would be absolutely fantastic.
Gil ~ CA
Ok maybe a bit late to join in but hey http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
I think dropped player's armies should stay on the field. Quitters armies rout.
I've had plenty of games on both stw and mi where i'd be the more fast or offensive player of my team, seriously damaging both enemies before running into army trouble. If an ally would drop, the battered opponents would then both go on, as they were damaged. It;d give me a chance at winning the game cuz i could put my ranged with my ally's, as usualy u have range left after h2h. Some may call it camping but it ain't free choice, no-one likes it when his ally gets dropped. Should you suffer a defeat cuz of that? As i have been playing since stw came out i know out of experience that by far not all players are as noble as the ones here on the board. I've had my fair share of lamers spoiling fun in games by using foul tactics one way or the other. Let's not give em another point to work with. Far from all players will keep to the noble rule kocmoc suggests, pulling back when an enemy drops. If that enemy was beyond help you'll get whining after the game that he routed cuz of the drop rather than that he was already routing cuz u flanked him hard.. there are enough reasons not to rout the men.
Well thats my two cents.
Tata.
Konncihiwa GilJaysmith sama,
I still can't reproduce the money cheating and haven't had it happen to me although two of the QA boys had it in games online. I'm presuming it must be a bug, because if someone edits the costs in the unit production spreadsheet, there should be a version conflict message which will stop them joining the game. So I'm a bit confused, but will carry on looking into it. If any group of you can find a way to reproduce the message in a guaranteed fashion, that would be absolutely fantastic.
You might be a bit less confused if you recall a chat we had. I haven't touched the money thing myself, but I see a similairity. Will test and report.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
MagyarKhans Cham
09-14-2002, 19:20
wasnt it wolf_macajor who knows how to rproduce this?
Quote Originally posted by GilJaysmith:
Start positions: the patch will let you choose army banners (unique) and faction for troop selection (not unique). The army banners will determine who gets deployed in the middle, so if the team's best player chooses Turkish troops he can deploy in the middle by choosing Almohad banners.
Dropped players: we'll see whether the AI can take over, but I suspect we'll just end up with an ordered withdrawal.
Gil ~ CA[/QUOTE]
Excellent on both items. One question: How do you tell which team will start in the center for each team and which will start on which edge of the map for each team? I've never bothered to figure it out yet in mulitplayer.
khan, maybe you could ask him http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
do you remember how many games you had delayed because some ****** wouldn't leave your game that you didn't want him in? a boot command would be really nice http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
if we think about it surely the AI taking over would be the best option but this really isn't that important
thinking about the fatique, maybe it is more historically correct and gives a "bigger picture" of how immense a battle really was, but, imo for online play who wants to stand there waiting for your troops to rest? It is an online game where action is supposed to take place! Waiting for your troops is a waste of time! If when i go online i can play 5 games instaed of 4 then i want fatique changed!
any news on the replay feature i heard that it is a little buggy? this is a great feature! It is a great loss to not have this working properly
thanks for listening or **** ya if ya didn't http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
ps i haven't myself been online for mtw but have heard extensively from my clan about these issues
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previously BarryNoDachi - KenchiBND
Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
MagyarKhans Cham
09-15-2002, 08:52
the devs shouldnt think that 1 or maybe 2 patches would be enough to satisfy our needs
1 patch we need very fast to solve the most annoying bugs, 1-2 unitbalances and add logfiles feature
1 patch after 1 month to solve the most annoying misbalances (some units) and other shortcomings (replay file)
1 patch in reserve
GilJaysmith
09-15-2002, 14:46
Quote Originally posted by JRock:
Excellent on both items. One question: How do you tell which team will start in the center for each team and which will start on which edge of the map for each team? I've never bothered to figure it out yet in mulitplayer.
[/QUOTE]
The faction with the 'first' flag gets to deploy in the centre. E.g. Someone playing Almohads will always deploy in the centre; if no Almohads then Byzantines will get it, etc. This applies per team.
It took me a while to figure this out myself, and I've got the code :)
Gil ~ CA
Hey Gil,
I ended up not actually buying the game yet.... I now have major concern about online gaming, with the many posts in regards to crashing etc.. and this is even before we get to the other issues mentioned in this thread.
I can see you are making major efforts, and thats fantastic. But 1 question. When is a patch going to be released to resolve the issues causing the crashes. If this is going to be another soggy shoggy then I'm not interested in going through the torment again.
Release Date ??????
cheers
I think that the army banner fix sucks. Very unrealistic to see spanish troopers marching with the Danish flag
MagyarKhans Cham
09-15-2002, 18:49
yup that would be weird but if thats teh only "workaround" they can create to ensure we can choose same factions in a battle than so be it.
soggy shoggy? is that teh same as shaggy maggy?
we should get an indication when teh first patch is going to be released.
Just an idea, but im not sure if its been posted already, scanned threw the posts but didnt see anything. Soz if it has.
Would it not be possible to make the army that routs from the player who disconnects, be shared between the other player(s) as reinforcements?.
So if it was a 4v4 and 1 player timed out, it would share the reinforcements out between the allies?. Prolly be hard to code like http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Mas (edited 09-15-2002).]
Darn, I was just about to post the reinforcements. That would be a good idea. If you were to lose a unit, then a random unit of the dropped players army would come back onto the field as one of yours. It sounds like something that would be hard to do, but hey, it would be a nice surprise. Although, if they have a 16 man army, it would replenish your entire army eventually
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What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby? Maybe we'll never know.
[This message has been edited by NARF (edited 09-15-2002).]
[This message has been edited by NARF (edited 09-15-2002).]
BomilkarDate
09-16-2002, 01:36
"Improved performance on chatroom menu."
Hope this means there is no more lag in foyer. Cause right now I really can't MP, because of the lag issue, I even can't use the mouse properly, chat actually is impossible. Only possibility is to use only the gamespy thing for chatting, but that way its nearly impossible to play. I had two games in 2 days.
Heard of clanmembers they experienced the same thing. Checked tech forum didn't find any topics about that. Is there anything we can do ourselves to improve the performance in MP Chat? And how do other people play. I mean at least some guys seem to have no probs with lag? Actually I don't understand that?
anymapkoku
09-16-2002, 02:06
Why not just give control of the dropped player's units to the nearest allied player?
I also personally think recovering fatigue should be taken out of the game. Add some more exhaustion levels to reward the player that conserves energy. This would be no different than the current system of fatigue except that you no longer need to rest 20 minutes before attacking someone. It wouldn't effect the battle or strategical system in any way. I know no one will like this idea because it's not "realistic" enough. Apparently people like the realism of hour long battles where you sit around doing nothing. Why not add a button where every player can click it and everyone instantly gets +3 bars of energy? (Provided it is recoverable that is, this wouldnt be allowed in sandstorms or blizzards.)
--reaverlisk
Two more issues:
*Chat buffer "lag" in the game. If people send a lot of messages, the buffer doesn't clear fast enough and the new messages aren't shown on screen for a while. This can be very bad if in an 8player game, your three teammates are all discussing strategy and you have to warn one of them of a flank or whatever. Can it be made so the chat buffer either clears faster or new messages force the chat buffer to clear a line and reset the timer for the next line to clear?
Other issue is that Gamespy's server is incredibly lagged right now. It's disconnecting some of us repeatedly just from the main Room. This is again why it concerns us that you rely solely on Gamespy to provide all multiplayer content. It would be nice to be able to connect directly to an IP address so when GameSpy is down (which will undoubtedly happen) or goes out of business or whatever, clans can still meet up for matches and players can still get together and play games.
Quote Originally posted by anymapkoku:
Why not just give control of the dropped player's units to the nearest allied player?[/QUOTE]
Because you can't control more than 16 units at a time, genius. Having them withdraw orderly off the field is the best solution.
anymapkoku
09-16-2002, 02:51
I know you can't control more than 16 at a time, that's why I'm suggesting that they allow you to. Genius.
--reaverlisk
GilJaysmith
09-16-2002, 02:55
Quote Originally posted by BomilkarDate:
Hope this means there is no more lag in foyer. Cause right now I really can't MP, because of the lag issue, I even can't use the mouse properly, chat actually is impossible. Only possibility is to use only the gamespy thing for chatting, but that way its nearly impossible to play. I had two games in 2 days.[/QUOTE]
It's because of an inefficient piece of code in the game list; the more games there are in the list, the jerkier the forum gets. But a fast machine with a fast hard drive and a big disk cache suffers a lot less lag.
JRock: the battle chat now scrolls the other way, i.e. like every other game. The reason some messages don't appear quickly enough is that we didn't want people to be able to spam important text off the end of the list. Of course that causes the other problem, that they can spam it off the beginning ;-) So each message has a lifetime of several seconds, and only after the first message dies will the list move down and later messages become visible.
We could get rid of that delay but it might be misused. Any opinions on that?
Gil ~ CA
GilJaysmith
09-16-2002, 02:58
Quote Originally posted by JRock:
Other issue is that Gamespy's server is incredibly lagged right now. It's disconnecting some of us repeatedly just from the main Room. This is again why it concerns us that you rely solely on Gamespy to provide all multiplayer content. It would be nice to be able to connect directly to an IP address so when GameSpy is down (which will undoubtedly happen) or goes out of business or whatever, clans can still meet up for matches and players can still get together and play games.[/QUOTE]
All the problems I know about are our fault, not GameSpy's. We'll see how it looks after the patch fixes those problems. I reiterate, we don't see GameSpy filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy anytime soon.
If GameSpy is temporarily down then your CD key can't be validated, which is something we like doing. A direct IP option wouldn't work either in that circumstance.
Gil ~ CA
I understand you guys aren't exactly id Software so you can't afford a master dedicated to validate your own CD keys upon clicking Multiplayer, although that would be preferable to GameSpy. Maybe after another game or two when you guys start raking in lots of profits. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Anyway, I can't seem to play ANY multiplayer today because the stupid GameSpy server keeps giving me "disconnected from server" messages. I think you saw me try to join your 3v3 game, Gil and MagyarKhan, but the server disconnected me so I couldn't play. So annoying. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
[This message has been edited by JRock (edited 09-15-2002).]
soggy shoggy ........... I was refering to Shogun and the problems we had that never got resolved. Online gaming is an issue for the totalwar label .... I am concerned that Medievil will fall to the same fate. This occuring again could also tarnish the total war label. Shogun could have been so much more.
I dont want to bring up the past .... but hope that mistakes dont get repeated ....
I am just a consumer wishing to purchase a product. I feel its natural to have concern about this issue.
Could you just tell us the anticipated, realistic release date for the patch that will end this continuing online gaming issue. And please give us some reassurance that times have changed.
cheers
[This message has been edited by mist88 (edited 09-16-2002).]
BomilkarDate
09-16-2002, 22:10
Quote Originally posted by GilJaysmith:
It's because of an inefficient piece of code in the game list; the more games there are in the list, the jerkier the forum gets. But a fast machine with a fast hard drive and a big disk cache suffers a lot less lag.
[/QUOTE]
Thx for the info, but what do you call a fast machine?
I got a Athlon 1600xp, 256 DDR, 60 GB Harddrive. Its not brandnew, but it's not really a slow thing.
...and actually as I said before. I really can't use the foyer to chat or play. So do other guys that can use the foyer have a P4 with more than 2GH, 512 DDR and 120GB RAID?
Well, I guess I just got to wait. THX anyway, the game is really great.
Red Inquisition
09-16-2002, 22:20
Quote Originally posted by GilJaysmith:
JRock: the battle chat now scrolls the other way, i.e. like every other game. The reason some messages don't appear quickly enough is that we didn't want people to be able to spam important text off the end of the list. Of course that causes the other problem, that they can spam it off the beginning ;-) So each message has a lifetime of several seconds, and only after the first message dies will the list move down and later messages become visible.
We could get rid of that delay but it might be misused. Any opinions on that?
Gil ~ CA[/QUOTE]
What about having the General Chat show up on the left side of the screen and the Team chat show up on the right. This way the other team cannot spam the chat and scroll the team chat out.
MagyarKhans Cham
09-17-2002, 04:29
just delete the ongoing games from teh list
GilJaysmith
09-17-2002, 04:34
Quote Originally posted by MagyarKhans Cham:
just delete the ongoing games from teh list[/QUOTE]
The inefficient piece of code referred to has been improved.
I'm now sorting games so that open ones appear at the top.
I'm reluctant to remove games from the list if you can't join them, because they make people feel the game is popular :)
Gil ~ CA
Quote Originally posted by GilJaysmith:
The inefficient piece of code referred to has been improved.
I'm now sorting games so that open ones appear at the top.
I'm reluctant to remove games from the list if you can't join them, because they make people feel the game is popular http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Gil ~ CA[/QUOTE]
In Shogun ongoing games didn't appear in the list. When I first entered MTW I thought I was seeing only games that were full. Was weird http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif - I guess it's only a problem of getting used to. It won't harm to boast how many games are being played...but maybe I'm positive because it's one of those rare things in the current foyer that work ... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif Hopefully they'll all be fixed soon, thanks. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Tera
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
[This message has been edited by Terazawa Tokugawa (edited 09-16-2002).]
Would it be possible to put the Room, Game, and Game Allies texts in different colors or shades so your allies can tell if you're talking to just them, everyone in the game room, or everyone in the lobby/foyer/Room?
Shumeisan
09-17-2002, 13:49
I've got the same problem as Bomilkar... Almost the same config... I will wait trying sometimes to got my mouse on the right place to join a game, not crying as I see Magyar or Amp having good games http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
(already waiting such a game since I stopped playing no laggy STW 18 month ago http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif)
And I've bought the game only for on-line games as like in STW the AI is really poor...
MagyarKhans Cham
09-17-2002, 15:36
Hi linkshum
Shumeisan
09-17-2002, 16:24
Hi mighty Mag http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I was a little desesperate yesterday evening as I could not join a single game nor create one (I tried during 3 hours...)But the hope came back this morning with my first game !
I hope to see you soon on the battlefield along with the Masked Terror... (I will bring back home a scsi config just to see if it's lessen the chat's lag)
Quote Originally posted by Shumeisan:
Hi mighty Mag http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I was a little desesperate yesterday evening as I could not join a single game nor create one (I tried during 3 hours...)But the hope came back this morning with my first game !
I hope to see you soon on the battlefield along with the Masked Terror... (I will bring back home a scsi config just to see if it's lessen the chat's lag)[/QUOTE]
The little wonder boy left the community long ago - now he's playing CS. Hope he gets MTW. I speak to him occasionally on IRC and msn.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
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