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View Full Version : Creative Assembly Plz stop pestering the devs



Kalt
09-17-2002, 05:19
Look guys, if youve been active with any other games, you have to know what a rare and special treat it is to have CA coming to these boards and posting as often as they do.

I think things have been mutually beneficial so far, but you see, if people keep pestering them, asking for this and that, wanting XYZ game changes, (as opposed to just offering ideas/suggestions) the developers will see that a source of ideas and information will have devolved into a morass of lobbyists who bother them for game changes that the *individuals* want. CA Im sure wants to make the game more enjoyable for everyone, not just the people posting on these boards.

So please guys, take it easy on them or you risk scaring them off. I have seen it happen before with other games. If you throw out well-reasoned ideas and opinions, maybe it will be picked up by them and theyll see if it flies, or maybe its just something they never thought of before...... but I think the indirect approach will lead to everyone being happier in the end than posts like:

"ECS plz read!" and "ECS why is XYZ not in?!?!?!?!" or "CA devs! Thx for ruining game!"

When people post things like that, it really ruins things for all of us. I might have my own gripes with the game sometimes, but it is only because I like it so much and can sometimes hold it to an unrealistically high standard (Im sure many of you share with me in this). Even for those who are very unhappy, it would be best to just wait for the first patch: no game is released in perfect shape, and I think everyone can agree MTW was released in far better shape than most.

The End http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

09-17-2002, 05:28
You are right, when you ask something to the devs back it up with facts, screenshots, several examples and mutual agreement by the majority.

Most veterans of the old game are putting forward their observations backed up by weeks of play, facts, screenshots etc - Gil is regularly on the MP foyer so he can see by himself the bugs found out. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif That's excellent, thanks.

They made up a long list of bugs etc which we reported and agreed mutually to fix - it is very satisfying - they're here and listening. I think one of the most important points is that they play regularly the games they make!

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

Dwimmerlaik
09-17-2002, 08:43
Oh wa wa waaah... the devs can take care of themselves, I myself see no reason for you to go off on poor Kraxis and his crusade for a Danish crusade..his thread is one of the most well thought out AND researched request threads on here, so just cool it..

On the other hand the preponderance of other hasty bug threads needs to slow down..

See? I give with one hand and bitch slap with the other :-D

Kalt
09-17-2002, 11:13
Quote Originally posted by Dwimmerlaik:
Oh wa wa waaah... the devs can take care of themselves, I myself see no reason for you to go off on poor Kraxis and his crusade for a Danish crusade..his thread is one of the most well thought out AND researched request threads on here, so just cool it..
[/QUOTE]

While Kraxis may have had a point in some way, the way he went about it was juvenile, especially after the devs took the time to answer. His series of posts is not the only thing Im referring to though, but the fact that someone mentioned in his thread "see! bumping works!" or somesuch leads me to believe that the wrong lessons are being learned. It would have been far better for Kraxis to have made his case upfront without demanding attention from the devs, instead of whining till he got their attention and _then_ starting to make his historical case.

If that kind of thread becomes typical on here, I wouldnt be overjoyed to come visit if I were a dev either.

cihset
09-17-2002, 13:37
Fact is, bumping do work, in a way.

The louder you scream, the bigger chance it will be corrected. A fact I've experienced from countless of games and mod's.

andrewt
09-17-2002, 13:40
Studying business class, businesses only please their customers if the marginal benefit is greater than the marginal cost. Customers who are too whiney and don't watch their language are given much less priority than the polite ones. That's why I'm always polite when asking for something.

spmetla
09-17-2002, 14:04
Quite right ol' chap!!!

Cheerio!!!

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If the world were a cake I would have ruined my appetite eating it
Luftwaffle@mad.scientist.com
http://www.boomspeed.com/luftwaffle/NewSig2.jpg

Mr Durian
09-17-2002, 14:54
cheerio my ass.....


http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Kraxis
09-17-2002, 15:51
Kalt this is what I started writing:

Quote Well, I'm sorry to tell you that your are historically incorrect in not including the Danes as being possible for Crusades.

We actually got our present flag (white cross on red background, the opposite of the English), the oldest serving national flag, during a Crusade.

Where did it go? I'll tell you.
It went to Estonia (Livonia) and it succeded. There the king (but mostly Danish traders) helped a certain town prosper. Which one? Tallin, the current capital of Estonia.

Lastly, you have even included Livonia as a part of the Danish kingdom in Late period (fits well enough as the Crusade went out in the 1220's)... So I must say I was VERY surprised to see it was not possible for me to launch a Crusade.

And I can't possibly think it has something to do with balance, as the Danes are pressed for land in the early game and a Crusade could help that by getting land in the Pagan east.
The same is true about the Polish.
[/QUOTE]

Is that juvenile? I think not, if it is I think I could need a good deal of help.
Further, I have recognized that the headline is perhaps not the best that could have been put out.
I sort of bumped the thread three times until I got an answer. And I did say that I would continue, but I did that out of frustration.
Then I got the post from ECS I think saying I had a free go to convince Fishpants. So naturally I try to convince him.
Strangely it is only when I post my best posts that you come after me. I think you should have done that before.
I'm in the clear because I was told I only needed to convince Fishpants. Right now it doesn't seem so 'only' anymore though. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

GilJaysmith
09-17-2002, 16:44
My position:

There is no "tactic" which will persuade us to add a feature to the game for any reason other than that it's a good idea. This includes bumping, referring to us by name, putting "devs please read" in the subject line, and so forth.

A good case generally requires highlighting of a bug or problem or omission, requiring work which only we could do, accompanied by a general feeling that it would be a Good Thing(TM), and the agreement on our part that we can afford to do it without breaking what's already there.

If you haven't made a good case we don't always say so. We're pretty busy, and we're on these forums out of a sense of personal obligation, not because we have time or part of our job description set aside for it. So although we probably read every thread between us, we don't reply to many.

If a short simple "no" would reassure people that we had read their posts, then we can try to oblige with more of those. But we don't have the time to go into detail about our reasons for every single decision we take.

In the specific case of Danish crusades, I would assume that our designer hasn't been convinced by the argument and that therefore we won't be adding this ourselves. Over to a custom mod, therefore...

Gil ~ CA

Kraxis
09-17-2002, 17:04
Though it hurts, thank you for clearing this up.

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

Vanya
09-17-2002, 20:23
"Cast onto CA that which is CA's."
-- Vanya

Its their game, we just play it. They nurtured it, gave it life, and made it a hit. They know the game best, and if they want to change it, they will do so in a manner that makes it better, not worse.

Vanya enjoys the game as is, and is thus thankful to CA for bringing it to Him.

"Speek onto a wall, and some words will still get through to those listening on the other side."
-- Vanya

Offer your suggestions. That is all you have the power to do.

You never saw Vanya flame CA for not including His suggested Mexican Flamethrower unit in the fray, or its upgrade, the Spicy Beaneater Mexican Flamethrower, or its cav equivalent, the Gothic Mexican Flamethrower Royal Burritos... did ya?

GAH!

Kraxis
09-17-2002, 20:48
Vanya, I love the game as much as anybody. I was just completely taken off guard by 'that'. I wished that 'it' would be corrected.

I never flamed them, and never had the wish to. I don't hope anybody feel that way about me.

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

Stu35
09-17-2002, 21:44
Amen Vanya.

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Stu35s MTW Site - Hints,Lists,Facts,And Porn (http://www.angelfire.com/games4/mtw) (one of those is a lie)

http://www.geocities.com/wolflord_uk/stu35

Alba Gu Bragh

Paladin
09-17-2002, 21:55
Hey, those devs owe me. They owe me for all the time I spent being tortured by this satanic game. Tortured? Satanic? Yes, you heard me right.

This game has "retard bugs". That is, bugs that make the game retarded. So just trying to finish a game has been a greatly exhuasting experience.

Starting off, installing was a nightmare. I had to go back and forth to the computer store a couple of times and deal with the Returns dept. because the game would not install. Eventually I got a copy that would install. Who's going to pay me for my gas and my valuable time I wasted? I want compensation.

I mean, how the hell does a province rebel and build troops in it that are better than anything that province could build when you owned it? WTF?!!

Why the hell would a faction continue to refuse a ceasefire even when they started the war, are beaten down to one province, and have just the king left? What kind of logic is this? WTF?!!

And how about the way ships keep running away from sea battles even though you have faster ships, more numerous, and more powerful? WTF?!!

How about on the battlefield when only the king is left alive and you have 200 guys beating on him and he won't die? I don't recall any history lessons mentioning superhuman kings, do you? WTF?!!

Do you want me to go on?

I demand that CA give me an apology for all the game testing I've been doing for them and I expect some kind of financial compensation for my time.

Thoughts?

+DOC+
09-17-2002, 22:03
Paladin, the name you've assigned yourself is such a misnomer...

Keep it pleasant please.

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Arkatreides
09-17-2002, 22:12
Paladin, why don't YOU write a game? Surely your enhanced wisdom in this field will make it an immediate success.

Kraxis
09-17-2002, 22:17
And that was the end of my listening to Paladin in this thread...

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

Paladin
09-17-2002, 22:36
Ah, the ostriches have raised their heads out of the er... sand long enough to make a comment.

+DOC+:

Quote Paladin, the name you've assigned yourself is such a misnomer...[/QUOTE]

So is yours. Whatever the heck it means.


Quote Keep it pleasant please.[/QUOTE]

I got your "pleasant" right here. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif


Arkatreides:

Quote Paladin, why don't YOU write a game? Surely your enhanced wisdom in this field will make it an immediate success.[/QUOTE]

I did write a game. It's called, "Let's kick Arkatreides around 'till he begs for mercy". Thanks for the inspiration. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif


Kraxis:

Quote And that was the end of my listening to Paladin in this thread...[/QUOTE]

Thanks. That makes it one less person for me to have to respond to.


So instead of addressing my concerns about the bugs in the game, you zanies decided to take seriously the humorous comments I added? Anyone dense enough not to realize that my outrage was phony needs to chill out because I do LOVE this game so!!

But seriously, those are problems that need to be addressed and asking people not to raise these as an issue does a disservice to everyone involved.

So now you may either stick your heads back where they came from or join me in pointing out problems that need to be worked out.

P.S. CA, thanks for this game.

+DOC+
09-17-2002, 22:51
Quote Originally posted by Paladin:
Ah, the ostriches have raised their heads out of the er... sand long enough to make a comment.

+DOC+:

So is yours. Whatever the heck it means.
[/QUOTE]

Judging by the standard of your post i'm not surprised you don't understand.

Let me clarify, DOC is short for Doctor, of which i am one as i have a PhD and the standard symbol for medical aid is a "+". I think i'll let you put the puzzle together now. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif



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=MizuDoc=

DrD
09-17-2002, 22:52
I can only comment on the rebellions: Please understand that under feudalism the king didn't "own" a province, he had certain rights is all. A province often had large numbers of troops that were loyal to local lords only. I just finished reading another medieval history book (Oxford History of the Middle Ages) and again I was struck by how common "revolts" when loosely defined as resistance to the king were. Even in England with a relatively strong monarchy the king usually spent much more time and energy keeping his own nobles in check than he did in foreign wars. Often it was just one noble who resisted, i.e failed to live up to his feudal obligations. Sometimes it was a whole group (i.e. civil war). Often the king let it slide for awhile (a rebel province in your country that's not hurting you or helping you) and sometimes he'd have to go with an army and kill/capture the noble. The rebellious noble in question usually got support from all his vassals so it was quite possible that his army was as good as or better than the king's (of course in this time large battles in the field were much less common than seiges, an aspect that is very innaccurately portrayed in MTW but then the game's gotta be fun after all.)
Now I relaize that in MTW there are many kinds of rebellions only a subset of which are considered feudal, but I think this is innaccurate. If you just think of all rebellions as more or less feudal in nature i.e. disagreement over rights to land, hunting, feudal obligations etc. you'll realize that the amount and level is VERY realistic. It was a rare medieval king who could consistently control most of his country.

Paladin
09-17-2002, 22:58
That's not the standard abbreviation for doctor. It's "Dr." For all I know, "DOC" could mean, "Drugged Out Chimpanzee".

And since you had trouble reading and comprehending my post, who did you bribe to get your PhD? Or was it something you bought off the internet from one of those phoney colleges? Be honest now, we won't judge you.

The depth of your ability to enjoy humor is now being tested. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

09-17-2002, 23:00
Your conceited attitude isn't nice Paladin. This is a forum where we constructively critise the game and help it make it better. Asking for financial compensation isn't really that beneficial for the game. Neither creating a flame in a constructive post is. Plus these matters must be handled privately.

Give out what you found out, back it up with facts + screenshots. I'm not asking you to be meek, just control it...

Thank you.

------------------
Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[This message has been edited by Terazawa Tokugawa (edited 09-17-2002).]

Paladin
09-17-2002, 23:03
Quote Originally posted by DrD:
I can only comment on the rebellions: Please understand that under feudalism the king didn't "own" a province, he had certain rights is all. A province often had large numbers of troops that were loyal to local lords only. I just finished reading another medieval history book (Oxford History of the Middle Ages) and again I was struck by how common "revolts" when loosely defined as resistance to the king were. Even in England with a relatively strong monarchy the king usually spent much more time and energy keeping his own nobles in check than he did in foreign wars. Often it was just one noble who resisted, i.e failed to live up to his feudal obligations. Sometimes it was a whole group (i.e. civil war). Often the king let it slide for awhile (a rebel province in your country that's not hurting you or helping you) and sometimes he'd have to go with an army and kill/capture the noble. The rebellious noble in question usually got support from all his vassals so it was quite possible that his army was as good as or better than the king's (of course in this time large battles in the field were much less common than seiges, an aspect that is very innaccurately portrayed in MTW but then the game's gotta be fun after all.)
Now I relaize that in MTW there are many kinds of rebellions only a subset of which are considered feudal, but I think this is innaccurate. If you just think of all rebellions as more or less feudal in nature i.e. disagreement over rights to land, hunting, feudal obligations etc. you'll realize that the amount and level is VERY realistic. It was a rare medieval king who could consistently control most of his country.[/QUOTE]

Excellent points. That really helps to put rebellions in a better perspective.

As I mentioned, I think rebellions are just fine in helping achieve game balance but I do have problems with it when the troops raised in a rebellion are better equipped than anything available in that province under normal conditions. I would love to see an explanation on that.

Arkatreides
09-17-2002, 23:04
Paladin: One friendly piece of advice. You cannot do on the internet what you do in real life and that is getting sarcasm across. Whether your original post was meant to be sarcastic or not is very hard to tell. If I knew you better or could see your face while reading it, I could probably get it, but they way it stands now it is just a 'rude post'. Try putting in a few more smiley's next time if you want to be sarcastic.

Oh and btw: Make sure you send me a copy of that game when it is done. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Paladin
09-17-2002, 23:09
Terazawa Tokugawa
Administrator (Site)

Quote Your conceited attitude isn't nice Paladin. This is a forum where we constructively critise the game and help it make it better. Asking for financial compensation isn't really that beneficial for the game. Plus this matters must be handled privately.
Give out what you found out, back it up with facts + screenshots. I'm not asking you to be meek, just control it...

Thank you.[/QUOTE]

Hey, bro, I'm just using a bit of humor to get my concern about some of these bugs across. I don't mean to come across as conceited or anything. My apology if I have done so. In the meantime, I would appreciate some words in the direction of the people that decided to make this personal by attacking me instead of addressing my concerns.

Plus, these are not just my issues, these are issues I've collected from all over this website.

*** NOTE TO ALL: OK, who called in the Administrator on me? CONFESS!!! ***




[This message has been edited by Paladin (edited 09-17-2002).]

Paladin
09-17-2002, 23:14
Arkatreides:

Quote Paladin: One friendly piece of advice. You cannot do on the internet what you do in real life and that is getting sarcasm across. Whether your original post was meant to be sarcastic or not is very hard to tell. If I knew you better or could see your face while reading it, I could probably get it, but they way it stands now it is just a 'rude post'. Try putting in a few more smiley's next time if you want to be sarcastic.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. I was going for the shock value at first but I didn't think people would get personal about it since I wasn't aiming it at any one person in particular.


Quote Oh and btw: Make sure you send me a copy of that game when it is done.[/QUOTE]

It's on its' way. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

I'm working on a follow-up game. It's called, "Creative Assembly owes me money for torturing me". What do you think? Catchy title? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

09-17-2002, 23:22
It's ok, I just wish a more civilised discussion rather than personal naphta throwing. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif Keep personal clashes on a private level - an email and clear it up.

Let the discussion continue in a pleasant way, debate bugs, mutually agree on something and then post a new topic or reply in an appropriate "list the bugs" thread.

Tera.

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif