Emperor Burakuku
12-02-2007, 10:09
First of all. Since I registered on this forum I have often seen people focused more on offending others than on arguing their own ideas. Some of us tend to forget quite often that they communicate with an actual person, not with an image, not with a nickname.The lack of respect on this forum is very often the result of some people not reading all the posts of a person and this time I am the victim. As I consider myself moral person with strong principles and I always try to be polite, even when offended, I demand the right to respond and I demand an apology. This time, I was offended, for the first time, and I would add sadly, by a person for whom I have great respect, The Persian Cataphract. I will add here the entire quote of The Persian Cataphract, followed by my explanations:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Burakuku
"I think he was cloned. Hitler that is. And now he's just a boy. Think about an iranian or greek Hitler. Now wouldn't that be strange? Or even a romanian Hitler. Damn, that would be strange. "
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract
"Iranians and Greek damped the soils of their homelands for over a thousand years. No other rivals in the history of this world have fought against each one and another so intensively. Greeks had their triumphs. So did the Iranians. Both had their moments of humiliation. In that war, spanning more than a milennium, projected from the early days of the Medeans and the Greek-influenced Mermnads of Lydia, through the heyday of the Greek city-states against the Achaemenians, through Alexander and Darius of the Codomannus, through the dust of the Parthians and the successors of Seleucus and Diodotus, through the open fields of dead legions and slain cataphracts, and finally the last Persian-Byzantine wars, no victor emerged. Only the screams of men, women and children who only heard legends and myths of previous achievements. Greeks at this stage had the Alexandrian and Roman opulence as the dim light to pave their future, while Iranians longed for the days when the Achaemenians ruled the world. Only a few moments past the last drops of shed blood, was there a brief moment of reconciliation, and the most unlikely enemy helped to trigger this sudden moment of mutual dependency.
There may be Greek and Iranian nationalists today, true, but these nationalists live in two very different cultural spheres also. Greek nationalists live in a country today honed as the founder of democracy and western philosophy. Such men are looked down upon, as a reminder of fascism that cost Europe millions, upon millions of lives. In Iran, my esteemed gentlemen, the situation is different. I do not excuse the behaviour of Kambiz. I know him. He is a passionate and enthusiastic young man, far more curious than the bulk of his countrymen, and a lover of Europa Barbarorum. Most Iranians do not even know who the Pahlavân were. Those who do, shrug them away as Scythic barbarian invaders. Kambiz fails to understand a few very elementary things of historiography, true, he displays a shameless behaviour that may downrightly tarnish my reputation as an Iranian in this team. I will not make any excuses for him. He suffers from misconceptions of Seleucids that still plagues Iranology, and he suffers from preconceived notions about the Parthians. True. It's all very true.
But I'd rather have him nationalistic than the bulk of my countrymen who through their inaction support a regime who proactively seeks to accomplish what the invading muslims failed after the last documented destruction of literati. To Iranians, nationalism is merely patriotism, the other echelon to religious allegiance. That is what you have failed, miserably if I needed to add it, to comprehend. If Kambiz is undisciplined in his ways, so be it, but the man who begins to even insinuate that Kambiz by any means is a fascist, or god forbid if I say it, a Nazist, has clearly reached rock-bottom in the scale of failure.
Kambiz lives in a land that mourns foreigner mass-murderers and religious fanatics by a regular basis, all the while he bears witness to true forces of evil, who in the name of religion deems the heritage of "Iran, during her period of ignorance" unfit to exist. Indeed, during the very Islamic Revolution itself, the clergy prepared to bulldoze Persepolis; Not even Alexander would have done something so vile. Even the bard of the national epic, Ferdôwsî was able to forgive Eskandar. I too can forgive the drunkard's rage, as I can forgive the men of reputation who are able to feel regret; It is not in my place to judge. It is rude. What I can do is observe, and whatever happened has happened. We must set the distinction between acceptance and approval. History, after all, is the study of facts in a past reality. Kambiz lives in a country where he is forced to witness the decay of his homeland; He clearly finds solace in the times of greatness, and less so in times of humiliation. It does not excuse his behaviour. But attempting to play with the idea of a "Persian Hitler", is not only a childish notion, but a highly striking irony when Iran today already holds the title as a den of religious fascism. Do some of you think there are too many Iranian patriots in this world, let alone those who do not shrug their arms in ignorance when it comes to the Arsacids, let alone the Seleucids? I'd beg to differ. We need to applaud these human beings who realize the inanity of self-scourge for the sake of religion, and show admiration to Iranian history. This is nothing that is encouraged by the current regime.
Sarcasm and Abou are my friends and colleagues. We have argued in the past, but the discipline that we hold in acceptance and respect of different schools of thought brands the very beauty of history itself. Within Europa Barbarorum, people from all around the world collaborate in an attempt of bringing history as accessibly as possible to the computers of the common man. I bring what little I know about the Ancient Iranians. That is it. Kambiz is also my friend, and an enthusiastic one at that. I may not always have time for his questions at the times that he PMs me, but it always brings a smile to my face knowing that I give fuel to a fire thirsting for knowledge. He has his short-comings, sometimes misunderstandings erupt, things happen... But his curiosity should be envied by all of his countrymen. All of them. All students blunder. This isn't the first time Kambiz blunders through wrong or inadequate selection of words, but then again, in a country where the English language hardly is reared, I feel the need to step forward. Taking what he says at face value is about as good as constructing a straw-man. A man of proper intellect will see through it. One of my best friends in this team, Keravnos, a native of Greece, is a true paragon of dignity. He takes great pains in exploring his admiration for even the most obscure cultures. He carries today most of the credit in rearing the forgotten Greeks of India.
Show some respect even if others don't. If you want an Iranian Nazi, I'll only point at the puppet president of Iran. If you want a Greek Nazi, I'll point to the Chrysi Avyi organization.
To whomever with the ability, close this thread. It has no use anymore. By the gods of Jägermeister, I think even Tellos finds Heineken to be infinitely more pleasurable than reading through this thread full of tripe, and he loves that beverage as much as I admire the Ebola virus. "
I. You, dear sir, have completely misunderstood me. True. It's all very true.
First of all, in a previous post on that thread I am taking Kambiz's side, but you didn't have the time to read it I presume. And I am also asking some of the guys offending him to be more polite, as without respect we're simple animals.
II. You said:
"Show some respect even if others don't. If you want an Iranian Nazi, I'll only point at the puppet president of Iran. If you want a Greek Nazi, I'll point to the Chrysi Avyi organization."
Regarding me calling a persian a "fascist" or a "nazi": It's a matter of fact that my father works on an oil rig in the Persian Gulf and from him I got to know of persians as he has many PERSIAN (not arabian) friends in Iran. True, very true. I also know about Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini and his islamic revolution. And I know how sick and tired are iranians of their fundamentalist leaders. True. So please, before making assumptions regarding my remarks maybe try to understand what I really mean. Here it is, explanation:
III. I said: "I think he was cloned. Hitler that is. And now he's just a boy. Think about an iranian or greek Hitler. Now wouldn't that be strange? Or even a romanian Hitler. Damn, that would be strange."
What I mean here is that Hitler (not Kambiz) could be of any nationality/ethnicity including romanian. And this statement came as a answer to some of our fellow forumers sarcastic remarks about Kambiz, who wasn't that polite himself as you said yourself. It's true, it can be interpreted the way you did, dear sir, but not if you have read my previous posts.
IV. I don't demand an apology as you were very polite and I did like your tone. I just wanted to make things as clear as possible as I hate it when I am accused of thing I don't do or even intend. You misunderstood my remark and it's ok. Not all of us have time reading an entire post. Like I said, just wanted to make myself clear.
V. About being polite and showing respect on forums. I think that some people have it, others don't. I am sick and tired of people insulting themselves in situations when noone has claim. "Romans were killers, Persians were little girls, Celts were simpletons, Greeks were gay, etc". Some of these ancient people are our actual ancestors and calling them names actually offends some of us. Is that simple. Maybe Roman were indeed cruel and yes, Persians were conquered by Alexander, some of the Greeks were indeed homosexual. So what? Why do we judge an individual by general facts? Not all Romans were cruel, some Persians, like Cyrus the Great for example were brilliant leaders, and is nothing wrong with being gay! And no, barbarians were not stupid, they conquered Rome eventually.
VI. To all of you who think insulting is not that much of a deal: don't say on a forum what you don't have the guts to say in real life and don't hide behind a computer. It's not manly. Not the case with The Persian Cataphract, I am not suggesting that. Far from it. Like I said, I have great respect for your posts and for your manner of dealing with offences.
VII. That's all I wanted to say about respect and I hope (repeating myself) that I made myself clear. Sorry for my bad english as I am not a native speaker so I assume I have some mistakes, but I tried my best. If any of you have any questions please ask as I assume this thread will be closed very soon. I would have sent a PM to TPC but I wanted people to know I had no intention of insulting anyone. Like I said, I hate it when I'm accused of things I don't intend. Peace be with you.
P.S The thread I mention it's called :Antiochos the Great" and was locked due to lack of respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Burakuku
"I think he was cloned. Hitler that is. And now he's just a boy. Think about an iranian or greek Hitler. Now wouldn't that be strange? Or even a romanian Hitler. Damn, that would be strange. "
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Persian Cataphract
"Iranians and Greek damped the soils of their homelands for over a thousand years. No other rivals in the history of this world have fought against each one and another so intensively. Greeks had their triumphs. So did the Iranians. Both had their moments of humiliation. In that war, spanning more than a milennium, projected from the early days of the Medeans and the Greek-influenced Mermnads of Lydia, through the heyday of the Greek city-states against the Achaemenians, through Alexander and Darius of the Codomannus, through the dust of the Parthians and the successors of Seleucus and Diodotus, through the open fields of dead legions and slain cataphracts, and finally the last Persian-Byzantine wars, no victor emerged. Only the screams of men, women and children who only heard legends and myths of previous achievements. Greeks at this stage had the Alexandrian and Roman opulence as the dim light to pave their future, while Iranians longed for the days when the Achaemenians ruled the world. Only a few moments past the last drops of shed blood, was there a brief moment of reconciliation, and the most unlikely enemy helped to trigger this sudden moment of mutual dependency.
There may be Greek and Iranian nationalists today, true, but these nationalists live in two very different cultural spheres also. Greek nationalists live in a country today honed as the founder of democracy and western philosophy. Such men are looked down upon, as a reminder of fascism that cost Europe millions, upon millions of lives. In Iran, my esteemed gentlemen, the situation is different. I do not excuse the behaviour of Kambiz. I know him. He is a passionate and enthusiastic young man, far more curious than the bulk of his countrymen, and a lover of Europa Barbarorum. Most Iranians do not even know who the Pahlavân were. Those who do, shrug them away as Scythic barbarian invaders. Kambiz fails to understand a few very elementary things of historiography, true, he displays a shameless behaviour that may downrightly tarnish my reputation as an Iranian in this team. I will not make any excuses for him. He suffers from misconceptions of Seleucids that still plagues Iranology, and he suffers from preconceived notions about the Parthians. True. It's all very true.
But I'd rather have him nationalistic than the bulk of my countrymen who through their inaction support a regime who proactively seeks to accomplish what the invading muslims failed after the last documented destruction of literati. To Iranians, nationalism is merely patriotism, the other echelon to religious allegiance. That is what you have failed, miserably if I needed to add it, to comprehend. If Kambiz is undisciplined in his ways, so be it, but the man who begins to even insinuate that Kambiz by any means is a fascist, or god forbid if I say it, a Nazist, has clearly reached rock-bottom in the scale of failure.
Kambiz lives in a land that mourns foreigner mass-murderers and religious fanatics by a regular basis, all the while he bears witness to true forces of evil, who in the name of religion deems the heritage of "Iran, during her period of ignorance" unfit to exist. Indeed, during the very Islamic Revolution itself, the clergy prepared to bulldoze Persepolis; Not even Alexander would have done something so vile. Even the bard of the national epic, Ferdôwsî was able to forgive Eskandar. I too can forgive the drunkard's rage, as I can forgive the men of reputation who are able to feel regret; It is not in my place to judge. It is rude. What I can do is observe, and whatever happened has happened. We must set the distinction between acceptance and approval. History, after all, is the study of facts in a past reality. Kambiz lives in a country where he is forced to witness the decay of his homeland; He clearly finds solace in the times of greatness, and less so in times of humiliation. It does not excuse his behaviour. But attempting to play with the idea of a "Persian Hitler", is not only a childish notion, but a highly striking irony when Iran today already holds the title as a den of religious fascism. Do some of you think there are too many Iranian patriots in this world, let alone those who do not shrug their arms in ignorance when it comes to the Arsacids, let alone the Seleucids? I'd beg to differ. We need to applaud these human beings who realize the inanity of self-scourge for the sake of religion, and show admiration to Iranian history. This is nothing that is encouraged by the current regime.
Sarcasm and Abou are my friends and colleagues. We have argued in the past, but the discipline that we hold in acceptance and respect of different schools of thought brands the very beauty of history itself. Within Europa Barbarorum, people from all around the world collaborate in an attempt of bringing history as accessibly as possible to the computers of the common man. I bring what little I know about the Ancient Iranians. That is it. Kambiz is also my friend, and an enthusiastic one at that. I may not always have time for his questions at the times that he PMs me, but it always brings a smile to my face knowing that I give fuel to a fire thirsting for knowledge. He has his short-comings, sometimes misunderstandings erupt, things happen... But his curiosity should be envied by all of his countrymen. All of them. All students blunder. This isn't the first time Kambiz blunders through wrong or inadequate selection of words, but then again, in a country where the English language hardly is reared, I feel the need to step forward. Taking what he says at face value is about as good as constructing a straw-man. A man of proper intellect will see through it. One of my best friends in this team, Keravnos, a native of Greece, is a true paragon of dignity. He takes great pains in exploring his admiration for even the most obscure cultures. He carries today most of the credit in rearing the forgotten Greeks of India.
Show some respect even if others don't. If you want an Iranian Nazi, I'll only point at the puppet president of Iran. If you want a Greek Nazi, I'll point to the Chrysi Avyi organization.
To whomever with the ability, close this thread. It has no use anymore. By the gods of Jägermeister, I think even Tellos finds Heineken to be infinitely more pleasurable than reading through this thread full of tripe, and he loves that beverage as much as I admire the Ebola virus. "
I. You, dear sir, have completely misunderstood me. True. It's all very true.
First of all, in a previous post on that thread I am taking Kambiz's side, but you didn't have the time to read it I presume. And I am also asking some of the guys offending him to be more polite, as without respect we're simple animals.
II. You said:
"Show some respect even if others don't. If you want an Iranian Nazi, I'll only point at the puppet president of Iran. If you want a Greek Nazi, I'll point to the Chrysi Avyi organization."
Regarding me calling a persian a "fascist" or a "nazi": It's a matter of fact that my father works on an oil rig in the Persian Gulf and from him I got to know of persians as he has many PERSIAN (not arabian) friends in Iran. True, very true. I also know about Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini and his islamic revolution. And I know how sick and tired are iranians of their fundamentalist leaders. True. So please, before making assumptions regarding my remarks maybe try to understand what I really mean. Here it is, explanation:
III. I said: "I think he was cloned. Hitler that is. And now he's just a boy. Think about an iranian or greek Hitler. Now wouldn't that be strange? Or even a romanian Hitler. Damn, that would be strange."
What I mean here is that Hitler (not Kambiz) could be of any nationality/ethnicity including romanian. And this statement came as a answer to some of our fellow forumers sarcastic remarks about Kambiz, who wasn't that polite himself as you said yourself. It's true, it can be interpreted the way you did, dear sir, but not if you have read my previous posts.
IV. I don't demand an apology as you were very polite and I did like your tone. I just wanted to make things as clear as possible as I hate it when I am accused of thing I don't do or even intend. You misunderstood my remark and it's ok. Not all of us have time reading an entire post. Like I said, just wanted to make myself clear.
V. About being polite and showing respect on forums. I think that some people have it, others don't. I am sick and tired of people insulting themselves in situations when noone has claim. "Romans were killers, Persians were little girls, Celts were simpletons, Greeks were gay, etc". Some of these ancient people are our actual ancestors and calling them names actually offends some of us. Is that simple. Maybe Roman were indeed cruel and yes, Persians were conquered by Alexander, some of the Greeks were indeed homosexual. So what? Why do we judge an individual by general facts? Not all Romans were cruel, some Persians, like Cyrus the Great for example were brilliant leaders, and is nothing wrong with being gay! And no, barbarians were not stupid, they conquered Rome eventually.
VI. To all of you who think insulting is not that much of a deal: don't say on a forum what you don't have the guts to say in real life and don't hide behind a computer. It's not manly. Not the case with The Persian Cataphract, I am not suggesting that. Far from it. Like I said, I have great respect for your posts and for your manner of dealing with offences.
VII. That's all I wanted to say about respect and I hope (repeating myself) that I made myself clear. Sorry for my bad english as I am not a native speaker so I assume I have some mistakes, but I tried my best. If any of you have any questions please ask as I assume this thread will be closed very soon. I would have sent a PM to TPC but I wanted people to know I had no intention of insulting anyone. Like I said, I hate it when I'm accused of things I don't intend. Peace be with you.
P.S The thread I mention it's called :Antiochos the Great" and was locked due to lack of respect.