Give overlooked historical figures their due! [Archive]

J.Alco

12-02-2007, 11:49

Right. Now that I've caught your attention with the title :laugh4: , I'd like to pose a little question to anyone who feels like contributing:

What historical figure, less well-known than most, merits at the very least a better place in history, and maybe even a nice movie or two?

In my opinion, the figures who deserve more are:

Scipio Africanus - This is the man who beat Hannibal for Gods' sake! And if the books, and the wiki article, I've read are telling the truth, he was an unbeaten general who didn't use his great popularity with the masses to his own advantage i.e by naming himself dictator-for-life, as a certain Gaius Julius did... (And I know there was a film made about him, but given that it was done by Fascists in the 30's, I'm discounting it)

Darius III - By some of the more interesting accounts I've read this is a man who was a more competent ruler than has been made out to be and who, well, gained everything and lost everything. Maybe a story from the loser's side, for once?

Xerxes I - Forget the dark-skinned half-naked brazilian covered in piercings from 300. Under this man, the Persian empire arguably reached its zenith, the greco-persian war notwithstanding. How about rehabilitating this man into a role that doesn't have him at the head of an army 'of barbarians, drawn from the four corners of the empire' (to once again use 300)

And just for variety...

Agustina de Aragón - The Maid of Aragón. A Spanish heroine of the napoleonic war and arguably my country's first female war-time heroine :2thumbsup: . This is a woman who fired a cannon at point-blank range into charging frenchmen, was decorated for bravery (Twice!!), was actually given the position of an artillery seargent, was captured, then released (or escaped, details are hazy), met Wellington, participated in three famous battles (the first and second sieges of Zaragoza and the battle of Vitoria), was married twice, had a child die in a French prison, and after the war spent the rest of her life a respectable woman married to a doctor who still wore her war-time medals. Surely a life that colouful merits so much more?? Besides, if nothing else she's remarkable for scoring extremely well on the uneven playing field of the sexes of the nineteenth century. (P.S if you're skeptical, check Wikipedia. If you understand Spanish, check out this link, which is obviously better http://www.1808-1814.org/frames/frambios.html)

So what's YOUR favourite historical character(s) which you feel merit more than they've been given?

MarcusAureliusAntoninus

12-02-2007, 11:58

Pyrrhos

Emperor Burakuku

12-02-2007, 12:00

Pyrrhos

Phirus :2thumbsup: .

mrtwisties

12-02-2007, 12:14

John Curtin. Fantastic wartime Prime Minister for Australia - managed to put the Australian economy onto a total war footing, effected greater independence from Britain, shaped a lasting alliance with the United States and profoundly altered the character of Australian federalism.

Darius III comes a close second :)

glouch

12-02-2007, 13:16

wow, i'm glad someone brought this up.

1) timoleon. from what i know he was a corinthian that went to sicily and expelled the tyrant of syracuse, as well as some other greek cities there, and managed to repel a massive(relative to his own troops, i hear he was outnumbered 2-1) carthaginian invasion.

2) menander. i mean the king of indo-greeks... he seemed to be one hell of a leader. :)

3) bactria in general. i've actually never seen anything about this kingdom other than when i read about the history of afghanistan... and, well, EB of course.

4) hayasdan in general. first time i heard about this kingdom was in EB.

5) pergamum. from what i've read in the EB texts, they were quite instrumental in the rise of roman power in asia minor.

6) massilia. well... they're located on a very interesting place, plus, first time i heard of a celto-hellenic city. :P

7) the indians. almost nothing's written about... how did these people fight exactly? because we really need to know... did they bring alexander's mighty phalanxes and hetairoi to their knees with just their elephants, or did they also have some kind of military organization?

8) the greek cities located on the cimmerian bosporus. interesting location and mix of scythians and hellenes.

9) sauromatae. i'm not buying into the "king arthur" shits that some movie starring clive owen was selling. although from what i know there did seem to be some sarmatian cavalry units under the control of the roman army... what i want to know is did they ever really threaten anyone other than the scythians? were they ever a great big military force that frightened the fishes out of some soldier's mouth?

10) the chinese. i've never read about anything about how they fought their battles, how they organized their men, etc. well, other than the so-called 'arrow storms' of the qin, i've never really heard of any chinese battlefield tactics or maneuvering, encirclement, cavalry charges... nada.

peace! :)

Long lost Caesar

12-02-2007, 13:16

me :laugh4:

Jaywalker-Jack

12-02-2007, 14:28

I think a film about the Galatian migration would make a great historical epic. It could follow several families through several generations, starting in Gaul and finishing with mercenaries settling in Egypt. Along the way you could have the raid on Delphi and battles with the Macedonians, and the defeat at the hands of Seleucid elephants in Asia Minor.

Admetos

12-02-2007, 14:52

I'll second that Galatian film. :beam:

Philippus Flavius Homovallumus

12-02-2007, 14:56

Xenophon, barely heard of outside academic circles. Ditto for Parmenion, though we don't know a lot about him.

Horst Nordfink

12-02-2007, 15:07

Themistocles - Athenian general and statesman.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla - Roman general and dictator.

James Connolly - Commander in Chief of Easter Rising of 1916.

NeoSpartan

12-02-2007, 16:11

I'll second that Galatian film. :beam:

I put a 3rd on that Galatian film.

Justiciar

12-02-2007, 16:24

A film about the Galatians? Nah. A game? Hells yes.

Pharnakes

12-02-2007, 16:24

:gah2:

I think Antigonis Gonatas.

Geoffrey S

12-02-2007, 16:35

Well... Sertorius, Xenophon, Viriathus, Jacob van Artevelde, Sergei Witte, and Pyotr Stolypin for a start.

mrtwisties

12-02-2007, 16:46

I hear ya on Witte.

Basileus Seleukeia

12-02-2007, 17:19

The Galatian movie sounds awesome, makes me the fourth:2thumbsup:
I'm a bit confused that nobody mentioned Seleukos Nikator or Antiochos III Megas, or any of the Diadochi kings. Hell, I'd even like a movie about those damn yellow, inbred corpse stealers!:laugh4:
And of course a movie about the Persian Shahanshahs, especially Cyrus, Xerxes and Darius III.

CirdanDharix

12-02-2007, 17:47

I'll be the fifth to clamour for a Galatian movie. And game, book(s), TV series, and assorted promotional products (Galatian T-shirts, Galatian dolls action figures, plastic Galatian swords, Galatian mugs, etc). I'm sure that we could actually prove that a movie can be historically accurate and successful both with the critics and the unwashed masses. We could even release an uncesored "director's cut" version on DVD afterwards, with the brutal rape scenes that couldn't be shown in theatres.

Basileus Seleukeia

12-02-2007, 18:22

Spoofa

12-02-2007, 18:28

Ptolemies really, really need an historic movie about them that doesnt portray them as the old egyptians, plus a movie about the diadochi wars would be suh- weet!

Pharnakes

12-02-2007, 18:57

What movie has the Ptolomies in it?

Basileus Seleukeia

12-02-2007, 19:17

I think there is no movie that is all about the Ptolemaic Dynasty. There are some that have one Ptolemaic king or queen as a side character ("Alexander" and a few movies about Gaius Julius Caesar being examples), but that's it.
And in all Caesar movies that I've seen, the Ptolemies are represented as Egyptian Pharaohs, and nobody that doesn't know anything on the subject would ever think that they were in fact greeks (macedonians to be exact), not native Egyptians.

lobf

12-02-2007, 19:45

Sargon, and Hammurabi, maybe. Gilgamesh perhaps. Other Mesopotamian rulers from when rome was a cultural backwater.

I'm way into ancient mesopotamian history. I think a great mod would be one set in about 2000-1100 BC in mesopotamia, recounting the struggles to unite the plains. And huge unit settings could just about be a 1:1 person representation of many of those battles.

Callicles

12-02-2007, 19:55

Mithridates VI Eupator Dionysos

anubis88

12-02-2007, 20:02

How about Sulla? He vas the first "emperor", but doesn't get even the smallest amount of publicity if you compare him to caesar

Intranetusa

12-02-2007, 20:21

How about Sulla? He vas the first "emperor", but doesn't get even the smallest amount of publicity if you compare him to caesar

Sulla marched on Rome twice, declared himself "dictator for an indefinite period" and later gave up rule to the Senate when he got old. He was a contemporary of Marius - Marian reforms ftw!

Sulla > Caesar

Horst Nordfink

12-02-2007, 21:09

Definitely Sulla. Already mentioned him! He would make a very interesting film.

Constantine the Great

12-02-2007, 21:14

John Hyundi, and Alcibiades.

Horst Nordfink

12-02-2007, 21:16

Did John Hyundi invent cars?

Constantine the Great

12-02-2007, 21:18

Did John Hyundi invent cars?
No, he kept the Ottomans from conquering Austria.

Horst Nordfink

12-02-2007, 21:20

I've never heard of him before!

Do you mean John Sobieski, King of Poland?

CaesarAugustus

12-02-2007, 21:37

Qin Shi Huang deserves a movie, IMO. And I'll sixth to ask, no, demand a galatian movie is made. Anybody on these forums a wealthy film director looking for a new project?

TWFanatic

12-02-2007, 21:53

Great thread!

A film on Galatians...why hasn't Pharnakes delivered his rant yet? On a more serious note, it is a good idea. I seventh the imaginary petition.

But back to the main subject. One of the most overlooked figures in Roman history is without doubt Marcus Tullius Cicero.

It annoys me that only the violent figures in history ever get their due. it must be said of Cicero that his climb up the political chain and the ultimate imperium of consulship he at last gained in 63 BC was achieved entirely without violence, bribery, or contravention of law, and generally he abhorred such behavior. That said, his conduct as Consul and suppression of the Catiline conspiracy were a different matter, and, he was not above defending a guilty man or prosecuting an innocent, so long as the political reward was sufficient.

There is, however, one noticeable distinction between him and other such famous Romans as Sulla and Marius; Julius Caesar and Pompey; and Anthony and Octavion. He became great not through violence, but his oratory. While Sulla overcame odds by prescriptions (death lists) and Marius through his army, Cicero achieved equally remarkable feats with nothing but his voice and cunning.

There is a line in Homer’s Iliad, in which Glaucus says to Diomedes that he still hears his father’s urgings ringing in his ears:

Always be the best, my boy, the bravest,
And hold your head high above the others.

This was a text which once inspired Alexander the Great. Centuries later, it would do the same for Cicero. He once told his brother that the lines had expressed his “childhood dream.” He destiny, however, lie not on the battlefield, but in the forum. In this sacred center of the city of Rome and the entire Republic, Cicero would make his voice the most famous in the world.

It is a shame that Cicero has fallen out of study, and it is time to give him his proper recognition in the pantheon of our common past.

Sorry for the lecture, I got carried away.:smash:

Horst Nordfink

12-02-2007, 21:56

YES!! DEFINITELY!!

I've been looking for a biography on Cicero for ages! The closest I got was Imperium by Robert Harris. But it stopped far too early in his career!

Superb idea.

I still think that Sulla would be a great film too though!

MiniMe

12-02-2007, 22:08

Noone would ever launch a movie about Sulla. The story is completely immoral according to modern black/white simpleton standards.
My man.

Horst Nordfink

12-02-2007, 22:13

TWFanatic

12-02-2007, 22:32

There are many more immoral stars of films. Except for his proscription lists, I don't think he was that bad by the standards of the day. I truly believe that he was doing what he thought was needed to heal the Republic. Which is why he stepped down from the dictatorship once he thought his job was done. Not like Caesar.
Sulla broke the mold. He crossed Rome's sacred boundry that no army was allowed to cross. So in an argument over who was worst, Caesar could always crook his finger at Sulla and cry "He did it first!"

Caesar is (and was) also much more likeable. He was popular with the plebs and equestrian classes, he was charming, he was magnimous, and he used clemency where Sulla used prescriptions.

If you're looking for a biography of Cicero, read Plutarch. There also exist about 800 letters to and fro Cicero (hey I made a rhyme:clown:), mainly in corrospondence his brother Quitus and friend Atticus, but some to and from (again:clown: :clown:) other such famous Romans such as Julius Caesar. Not to mention his many great philosophical works and speaches.

Horst Nordfink

12-02-2007, 22:40

Caesar was definitely much more likeable, a Popularis. Some of the most important politicians haven't necessarily been all that popular, but sometimes you need to break a few eggs to make an omlette.

Margaret Thatcher did a job in Britain that needed doing, however unpalatable it was, and however much I hate her for it.

J.Alco

12-02-2007, 22:41

Well then, I'm pleased how all of this is going!

Keep it up people, but let's try and see a bit more of the fairer sex listed as well!

P.S TW Fanatic, your minimod stuff is bloody amazing. It's a shame you got rid of the Praetorian Cavalry, but everything else makes up for it in bags. :2thumbsup:

Constantine the Great

12-02-2007, 22:46

I've never heard of him before!

Do you mean John Sobieski, King of Poland?
I think I spelled the name wrong. It's actually John Hunyadi, I was way off.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hunyadi

TWFanatic

12-02-2007, 22:50

Well then, I'm pleased how all of this is going!

Keep it up people, but let's try and see a bit more of the fairer sex listed as well!
Nero's mother? Hilary Clinton?

Try as I may, all the woman I can think of are evil.

Sorry, sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

P.S TW Fanatic, your minimod stuff is bloody amazing. It's a shame you got rid of the Praetorian Cavalry, but everything else makes up for it in bags. :2thumbsup:
I guess they work for some people. They made my game go crazy and CTD. Glad you like everything else though.:smash:

Caesar was definitely much more likeable, a Popularis. Some of the most important politicians haven't necessarily been all that popular, but sometimes you need to break a few eggs to make an omlette.
True. Sulla did give the Republic some much needed reform, though much of it was the wrong kind of reform IMHO. Still, the ends doesn't justify the means. You never march on Rome. Had I been a supporter of Caesar, the second he turned my beloved Republic (for all it's faults) into a monarchy (albeit a desguised one), I'd join the conspirators.

Horst Nordfink

12-02-2007, 22:59

I completely agree. The Republic is above everything!!

MarcusAureliusAntoninus

12-03-2007, 00:05

konny

12-03-2007, 01:08

Pyrrhos

Would be my favorite for this timeline too. A similar "tragical hero" who's life would make a fine movie would be Karl XII of Sweden.

MiniMe

12-03-2007, 01:12

Well, Pyrrhos is not exactly an overlooked figure. Everybody heard of "Pyrrhos victory", me thinks, though not many know about the rest of his deeds.
Bettersay would be that his actions were wrongly understood (sorry me english, me drunk).

TWFanatic

12-03-2007, 01:16

Nobody seconded Pyrrhos?
Most of the people listed here are not too unknown. People like Antigonos and Scipio Africanus are usually mentioned in courses as low as a World History survey course, but nobody ever talks about Pyrrhos. He was inches from changing the entire course of history.

I mentioned Pyrrhos the other day to some friends and they had no idea what I was talking about. One guy thought I was refering to Alexander the Great, since I mentioned him in my explaination of who Pyrrhos was.
My bad, I overlooked your post. I completely agree. Very good point on how he's never mentioned on courses, that's something I've never really thought about. I guess that most people generally just aren't interested in pre-Second Punic War Roman history. And Epirus, phh, you never hear a thing about the nation outside of selected material.

quackingduck

12-03-2007, 01:17

is everyone here a history prof or somthing?
i know more history than most people i know, but i seem to know a very small ammount compared to the people on this forum

cmacq

12-03-2007, 01:23

These guys are history-gods. And...
by posting herein you've caught their eye.

Morte66

12-03-2007, 01:31

Epaminondas of Thebes - fine general, largely unknown

Vespasian - pulled the fat out of the fire for the Principate

Alcibiades - just fun, now there'd be a movie

I'd like to mention the East Roman emperor who personally led his troops to very nearly settle Persia's hash, only to get clobbered by the rise of Islam at the last minute. But I've forgotten his name...

cmacq

12-03-2007, 02:00

My pick would be Lucius Septimius Severus; well educated, rich, charismatic, brilliant, brutal, a builder, a non-Roman, and a man of family values. He also was a very good military leader and he actually died in office of natural causes.

My second pick would be Lucius' son; Septimius Bassanius aka Marcus Aurelius Severus Antoninus Augustus or nicknamed Caracalla. He was similar to his father, did the Constitutio Antoniniana, killed his brother, and was assassinated while taking a shit aboard a ship. There, he has his due.

Constantine the Great

12-03-2007, 03:37

Flavius Claudius Iulianus, known as Julian the Apostate. If he'd lived, he'd probably have put an end to the Sassanids, pushed Christianity back, and changed the world as we know it.

antisocialmunky

12-03-2007, 04:36

The man who discovered fermented beverages. You can't argue with that - he HAS to be the greatest historical figure ever.

Ypoknons

12-03-2007, 06:16

Qin Shi Huang deserves a movie, IMO.
You mean, other than Hero?

phoenixemperor

12-03-2007, 06:35

Flavius Belisarius

iwwtf_az

12-03-2007, 06:41

george w. bush :skull:

cmacq

12-03-2007, 06:47

Historical...

GW does not yet belong to the ages.

Intranetusa

12-03-2007, 06:47

Qin Shi Huang deserves a movie, IMO. And I'll sixth to ask, no, demand a galatian movie is made. Anybody on these forums a wealthy film director looking for a new project?

I think we're just talking about western conquerors, not the far east. :)

NeoSpartan

12-03-2007, 07:17

My number 2 choice AFTER the Galatians movie/mini-series is a movie about:

Sun Tzu
:yes:

mrtwisties

12-03-2007, 07:27

I think we're just talking about western conquerors, not the far east. :)

I dunno. The far east was mentioned five times in the first five posts. And I'm pretty sure we're not just talking about conquerors, either.

Or were you joking, so that I now look silly?

Kham

12-03-2007, 13:33

I absolutely second Xenophon. The Anabasis would be a great story to be told. But maybe better in a mini-series than in a movie.

Also Phyrros. Everybody knows the term "phyrric victory", but hardly anybody much more (including myself).

And I second Alcibiades, that must have been a fascinating character! Also something to learn about potential nasty outcomes of real grassroots decision making.

Intranetusa

12-03-2007, 14:43

I dunno. The far east was mentioned five times in the first five posts. And I'm pretty sure we're not just talking about conquerors, either.

Or were you joking, so that I now look silly?

lol, nevermind then. I only saw the far east mentioned once before your post - and since this is an EB forum I assumed this also relates to western history.

Well in that case, Genghis Khan FTW!!! Nothing beats the Mongol composite reflex recurved bow that is:
1. more powerful than an English longbow with far less draw length
2. can shoot targets accurately up to 500 meters away

:D

CirdanDharix

12-03-2007, 14:43

Oh my god, now I'M really confused about whether you support the idea or not:sweatdrop:
I do. I was being facetious, but my post was still mostly serious. I seriously believe that a Galatian epic could be historically accurate, deep, and still have popular appeal.

Jaywalker-Jack

12-03-2007, 16:17

Mithradates VI

12-03-2007, 17:22

Flavius Belisarius

Oh yes. And Heraklios. That would make for an awesome book/film.

As would Basil II, really.

And a film version of the Alexiad...

Also, I'll 48798357984th the Galations movie. Has anyone read the novel "Roma", by Steven Saylor? Similar concept. Though much less in the way of battles.

CirdanDharix

12-03-2007, 17:29

Wow, glad to see so many people agreed about the Galatian migration. Im actualy trying to write a story based on it when I have time. Its got to be one of the most colourful events in history, and so few people know about it.

It's not just that they're colourful events; they would also adapt well to the screen. Barechested, muscular, Gallic warriors with huge swords can make "OMFG T0t411y 4w35uM" battle scenes and still be historically accurate, which doesn't seem to be the case with Greek phalanxes. Really, I'm mildly surprised no-one has tried a Galatian epic film yet.

Sarkiss

12-03-2007, 20:14

Mithridates VI Eupator Dionysos
yep, along with Tigran II the Great
also Hamilcar Barca, Phillip II, Alexandr Suvorov

Spoofa

12-04-2007, 00:17

It's not just that they're colourful events; they would also adapt well to the screen. Barechested, muscular, Gallic warriors with huge swords can make "OMFG T0t411y 4w35uM" battle scenes and still be historically accurate, which doesn't seem to be the case with Greek phalanxes. Really, I'm mildly surprised no-one has tried a Galatian epic film yet.

I dunno, seeing the "barbarians" as the main characters could be a turn off for moviegoer's :skull:

Jaywalker-Jack

12-04-2007, 01:08

It's not just that they're colourful events; they would also adapt well to the screen. Barechested, muscular, Gallic warriors with huge swords can make "OMFG T0t411y 4w35uM" battle scenes and still be historically accurate, which doesn't seem to be the case with Greek phalanxes. Really, I'm mildly surprised no-one has tried a Galatian epic film yet.

Exactly, no need to contruct some massive tolkienesque universe when this stuff actualy happened!

tapanojum

12-04-2007, 01:11

Simba! He survived as a child and came back to reclaim his throne from his evil uncil.

Tigran II isn't mentioned much at all and even in my ancient history course his name isn't even brought up once. Considering all the fronts he had to fight including the Roman Legions, I'd say he did a pretty good job!

Jaywalker-Jack

12-04-2007, 01:11

I dunno, seeing the "barbarians" as the main characters could be a turn off for moviegoer's :skull:

Conan anyone? :beam:

Intranetusa

12-04-2007, 01:12

They need a movie about Crasss, Surena, and the battle of Carrahe. :D

Tellos Athenaios

12-04-2007, 01:17

I dunno, seeing the "barbarians" as the main characters could be a turn off for moviegoer's :skull:

Why? They'd claim "based on the true story", "a tale about love, romance..." "... courage and honour" etc. etc. "Join the Galatians as they undertook one of the most daring campaigns ever to find a new home" "travel with people from all over Europe, to find a new life in Ankyra" "See how they battled their way through unforgiving conditions and hostile peoples" "... will they make it?" "The first major motion picture about one of the most influential mass migrations of all time. [Insert Date Here]"

"What do you mean: 'Mongol Horde'? This is the real deal." - The Galatians.

Horst Nordfink

12-04-2007, 02:21

Tiberius Sempronis Gracchus and his brother Gaius Sempronius Gracchus.

CaesarAugustus

12-04-2007, 02:22

Flavius Claudius Iulianus, known as Julian the Apostate. If he'd lived, he'd probably have put an end to the Sassanids, pushed Christianity back, and changed the world as we know it.

Seconded! I forgot to mention this the first time. The life of Julian the Apostate would make an excellent (and probably highly controversial) film, he is like a failed Alexander :shame: .

tapanojum

12-04-2007, 02:27

I still think Simba is the most overlooked historical figure reclaiming his throne as the Lion King in the feudalist animal kingdom.

Has any other historical figure faced a stampede of thousands of Buffallos or have a small force of female warriors under his command to forge an empire?

I rest my case

CirdanDharix

12-06-2007, 18:51

Why? They'd claim "based on the true story", "a tale about love, romance..." "... courage and honour" etc. etc. "Join the Galatians as they undertook one of the most daring campaigns ever to find a new home" "travel with people from all over Europe, to find a new life in Ankyra" "See how they battled their way through unforgiving conditions and hostile peoples" "... will they make it?" "The first major motion picture about one of the most influential mass migrations of all time. [Insert Date Here]"

"What do you mean: 'Mongol Horde'? This is the real deal." - The Galatians.

Let's make it! Anyone know a filthy fucking rich producer?

delablake

12-09-2007, 13:35

Dom Pedro II, Emperor of Brazil 1841-1889
Abolished slavery and modernized the country, created a huge economic and cultural boom. He was a scholar and connoisseur of art and music, built roads and railroads, encouraged the immigration of Europeans to Brazil, and is commonly associated with Brazil's most fortunate period of government throughout the country's history.
Was dethroned by latifundia owners and generals in a coup d'etat aiming at installing a "republic", died in Paris in 1891.

Memento Mori

12-09-2007, 14:15

A movie about Harald Håråde would have been great; anyone who gets the title "hard ruler" from manly vikings deserve their own movie :clown:

Seriously though, he was'nt just messing up York in 1066.

He participated in his first battle at 15 and sustaining severe injury, he then joined the Varagnian Guard a few years later, and eventually become their leader.
Campaigning with them throughout the Mediterranean he conquered many muslim fortresses and got the title "Devastator of Bulgaria" after the Bulgarian riot of 1040.
He is also supposed to have had an affair with the Byzantine empress :2thumbsup:

Other than that some of the norse sagas would have been awesome, there are one-liners in 'em that would make John McClane look as a small girl :laugh4:

Also like the idea of a Galatian movie, would have been very ,very awsome indeed.

Horst Nordfink

12-09-2007, 14:20

Got his arse kicked when he tried to mess with the English though didn't he?

bovi

12-09-2007, 14:29

A movie about Harald Håråde would have been great; anyone who gets the title "hard ruler" from manly vikings deserve their own movie :clown:
Actually, there's one being planned (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/troms_og_finnmark/1.4052123). Don't know if it will come to fruition, and it will likely be in Norwegian if it does. You misspelled his name by the way, it's Hardråde.

Memento Mori

12-09-2007, 14:37

You misspelled his name by the way, it's Hardråde.

*Host* Det der va litt flaut *Host*

Great news by the way, ought to have heard though since I live in that very commune :beam:

Hmm... Perhaps I should line up for a small role? :clown:

Rodion Romanovich

12-09-2007, 14:49

Most overlooked historical figures are Gah-Agh-Grr, the first pre-stone age human who invented the war axe, Agh-Gah-Grr who first invented farming, and Grr-Agh-Gah who was the first to invent religion.

BerkeleyBoi

12-09-2007, 15:57

Deng Xiaoping.

He lifted millions of people out of poverty and brought the most populous country back from isolation. Then he ordered the massacre at Tiananmen. A very complex character.

Intranetusa

12-09-2007, 19:43

The man who discovered fermented beverages. You can't argue with that - he HAS to be the greatest historical figure ever.

Probably some stone age guy... lol

Or for the first beer - the Egyptians/Mesopotamians ftw!

unreal_uk

12-09-2007, 20:35

Xenophon, for one.

Currently writing a feature script based on his Anabasis - not quite the Galatian epic you're hoping for, but we'll see if I can't bring that same level of excitement out of it xD

Cybvep

12-09-2007, 20:41

Pyrrhos - when I mentioned him to some guys with mediocre historical knowledge, they thought that I have mistaken him with Hannibal (elephants...).

Sulla - most people know Caesar, but not Sulla.

Vercingetorix - people either don't know him or think that he was another stupid loser who was defeated by Romans!

Chinese Empire - in European schools it is not even mentioned.

Indian Empire - come on...

Other Greeks (besides the Spartans) who were killed in the battle of Thermopylae...

Cyclops

12-09-2007, 22:46

Cyrus the great. He built a mighty empire, and went down swinging. Epic story, a noble and cultured character who succumbed to ambition at the end. And he's from Persia. After the rough handling they got in 300, the Achaemenids deserve a decent movie.

Massively important figure from a cultural point of view: broadened the cultural horizon for Persian culture the way Alexander did for Hellenic culture.

A positive movie about Iran? Hollywood should love that... :wall:

Has Hannibal had a film version made? I know he's not an overlooked figure but seriously he's one of the three great captains of History along with Alexander and Panda, I mean Napoleon and should be remembered for his greatness.

What a film it'd be: at least 2 mighty battles (Cannae and Zama), many other battle opportunities, elephants, wily opponents (esp Fabius and those pesky Scipii), treachery, and a sidekick called "the Gladiator". IIRC this bloke proposed Hannibal train his men to eat human flesh, and allegedly Hannibal thought about it before knocking the idea back. Could've been the best combination of all time, Hannibal and his Cannibals.

The character is screaming to be represented: cruel disciplinarian, superb leader, descended from Phoenecians...a positive movie about a middle-easterner? Hollywood should love that... :wall:

Dunno about Xenephon, wasn't the Anabasis all "me me me, it was me" when in fact he wasn't the supreme commander until they got back to Greece? I felt he sounded like a big-noting try-hard. Lot of the Romans are full of it too.

CaesarAugustus

12-09-2007, 23:55

A movie about Hannibal is being planned, starring Vin Diesel :inquisitive: .:wall:

unreal_uk

12-10-2007, 03:24

Dunno about Xenephon, wasn't the Anabasis all "me me me, it was me" when in fact he wasn't the supreme commander until they got back to Greece? I felt he sounded like a big-noting try-hard. Lot of the Romans are full of it too.

I don't think he was 'me, me, me'. Certainly, we have to be wary of trusting his word 100% since it's just that, his word, but he does give dues to the other generals. I'm certainly NOT going to portray him as the supreme leader in my script. The fact that he was a 'try-hard' actually makes him a damn sight more interesting than the usual all-powerful super-general characters we see in historical movies.

Tonally, I'm trying to move away from this very bombastic, theatrical style that has wriggled into historical movies. Troy was the worst for it - the dialogue is a perfect example of this strange faux-shakesperian constructed English that passes for 'ancient' speech. The way I see it, the use of English is an utter anachronism anyway, so we might aswell make it an English that people are actually familiar with, instead of trying to add frills to it to try and fool an audience.

I imagine the tone to be closer to that of a Vietnam movie. Indeed, the parallels are very interesting. Guerilla warfare in an ancient epic? Could be bloody interesting.

Maksimus

12-10-2007, 03:41

I would say Velizar Belisarius Flavius (the Goth)- one that saved East Roman Empire form Persian's, Slav's, Arab's, Hun's and Goth's, One that Retook Carthage, Rome and Ravena, He destroyed the Vandal and West Goth's state... And died in peace

Comparatively less well-known than other famed military leaders such as Hannibal, Julius Caesar, or Alexander the Great, his skills and accomplishments were matched by very few other military commanders in history. In 530 he beat the Persians in what is now in All Military Academies in the World!
https://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1118/800pxjustinianbyzanzqf4.png (https://imageshack.us)
He Entered Rome 9 december 536! And Made Roman Empire as 'One' once more in (while he was in the East - Rome fell, but then again, Belisarius took it again in 547AD)! He was responsible for Nika revolt supression and the most loyal Justinianus general..
At age 77 (in 559AD) he managed to defend Constantinopolios against Huns with only 300 soldiers and 1000 armed citizen's..

https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1858/belisariusbyfrancoisandkm3.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Bélisaire, by François André Vincent, 1776. Belisarius, blinded, a beggar, is recognised by one of his former soldiers - This picture is reconstruction of 12 century poetry by Jovan Cеsеs that made-up a legend by wich Justinian blinded Velizar after an atempt of some officer's to kill the Emperor.

He died in the third month of 565 at age 83, just a few month's before his master

Sanctimonius

12-10-2007, 08:00

There was a short two-part mini-series on the life of Hannibal made by the BBC. It had Alexander Siddig (Julian Bashir in Deep Space Nine, the 'good' muslim in KIngdom of Heaven, the Westernised Prince in Syriana) as Hannibal. Unfortunately it only really concentrated on his campaign into Italy, and little else.

Xenophon - Now there's a good story waiting to be told.

I second Vergingetorix and The Apostate, two very strong historical characters who, with a little more luck, may have changed history.

One person who I'm surprised to see not mentioned is Justinian, the man who tried to recreate the Roman Empire pretty much single handedly. I think any film on the Varangian Guard would be a great watch, and a good historical exercise.

One character I'm amazed I haven't seen a film on is the Prophet Muhammed. I guess there would be too much religious argy-bargy....

mrtwisties

12-10-2007, 08:09

John Cleese. Funniest guy *ever*.

SaFe

12-10-2007, 14:00

For the EB timeframe definately Ariovist(us), war-king and chieftain of the suebian condeferation, a very cunning and charismatic man, who achieved to carve a realm for him not only by the battle strenght of his troops but also by marrying the right princesses and playing his opponents against each other.

delablake

12-10-2007, 17:03

[QUOTE=Sanctimonius]There was a short two-part mini-series on the life of Hannibal made by the BBC. It had Alexander Siddig (Julian Bashir in Deep Space Nine, the 'good' muslim in KIngdom of Heaven, the Westernised Prince in Syriana) as Hannibal. Unfortunately it only really concentrated on his campaign into Italy, and little else.

and the suicidal German ex-officer in Vilsmaier's "Stalingrad" of 1993.
I liked the BBC movie, plus the DVD had a very nice documentary on Rome vs. Carthage, and one thing that strikes me over and over again: What incredible history-buffs the Anglo-Saxons are! I like that! Most European broadcasters seems to eschew history at all...

Maksimus

12-10-2007, 19:30

One person who I'm surprised to see not mentioned is Justinian, the man who tried to recreate the Roman Empire pretty much single handedly.

Velizar Belisarius Flavius was the one that did that - Justinian never fought a battle in his life.. And even if you can say Justinian payed and master-mined the ideo of reteaking Rome - he did not:no: It was Belisarius and one of his Goth general's.

Belisarius even paied for maintenance of 80% of the troop's in Italy when he took Rome and when Rome fell again he had to pay all the troop's just to take Rome once more in 547

He wa known as the "The Last Great General". In Rome after time, there was a famous funny-story that The Western Goth's kingdom was crushed by the hand's of familly member's of a single man - Belisarius:san_wink:

Horst Nordfink

12-10-2007, 21:08

One character I'm amazed I haven't seen a film on is the Prophet Muhammed. I guess there would be too much religious argy-bargy....

Muslims do tend to get a little het up when people depict the prophet. I'm not 100% sure if this counts with people playing him in films and such. Probably best not to take the risk. Not sure if it would make such a good film either; I would imagine some of his actions wouldn't go down all that well.

Ozymandias

12-11-2007, 03:22

Maksimus

12-11-2007, 03:49

I'd third a Belisarius film. But I think Justinian had him blinded after all of his conquests because he feared a possible usurpation (is that a word?) by Belisarius.

I'd also like a Suvorov film. I think he was one of the undefeated generals in history and the last generalissimo of Russia.

The blinded part is a myth brought to life by 12 century poet ''Jovan Cеsеs'' of Conatantinololis - Modern scholars believe the story to be apocryphal, But Philip Stanhope, a 19th century British philologist who wrote Life of Belisarius — the only exhaustive biography of the great general — believed the story to be true. Based on a thorough parsing of the available primary sources, Stanhope created a noteworthy, if not wholly convincing argument for the legend's authenticity! - wiki source:curtain:

Michiel de Ruyter

12-11-2007, 10:14

Other options:

Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa - Without him, Octavian never ever would have become Augustus. He provided the martial talent that Augustus lacked. Great organizer, and a man responsible for many of the works that Augustus got the credit for. When Augustus was gravely ill, Agrippa received the ring with the Imperial seal.

mrtwisties

12-11-2007, 11:55

Velizar Belisarius Flavius was the one that did that - Justinian never fought a battle in his life.. And even if you can say Justinian payed and master-mined the ideo of reteaking Rome - he did not:no: It was Belisarius and one of his Goth general's.

Belisarius even paied for maintenance of 80% of the troop's in Italy when he took Rome and when Rome fell again he had to pay all the troop's just to take Rome once more in 547

He wa known as the "The Last Great General". In Rome after time, there was a famous funny-story that The Western Goth's kingdom was crushed by the hand's of familly member's of a single man - Belisarius:san_wink:

Belisarius was a pretty impressive character, true, but I think you might have gone a bit too far. Belisarius may be known as the "Last General", but Justinian is known as the "Last Roman". He:

Came from a peasant family and rose to the position of emperor through the use of ability rather than force.
Was effectively in charge for a decade before he became emperor, which is also indicative of considerable ability.
Had a talent for picking people who'd be good at their jobs and persuading everyone else to let them have those roles on the basis of merit (which was not a given in an aristocratic society). He also had a talent for getting the best out of these people.

During his reign, great strides were made in:

Reforming Roman law.
Reforming the administration of the empire and of its taxes.
Conquering stuff.
Holding together, albeit tenously and temporarily, various Christian sects.
Completing significant public works.
Sparking an Eastern Roman cultural renaissance.

Belisarius had a lot to do with the third of these achievements, but the first and second were far more significant. They continue to shape the world even today.

Justinian FTW!

mrtwisties

12-11-2007, 14:07

Charles Martel.

konny

12-11-2007, 18:04

Charles Martel.

But only if he is called Karl Martell in that movie. ;-)

Intranetusa

12-11-2007, 18:15

Rodion Romanovich

12-11-2007, 21:47

That reminds me - Voltaire! Definitely underrated for his witty quotes, and for writing down the essence of the Enlightenment periods. Questionable how much impact he had for the people of that time, but at least he has written down most of the ideas of the Englighenment philosophers for future generations to read, giving a quite good insight into the period in aspects that regular historical sources don't cover.

Maksimus

12-11-2007, 22:22

Belisarius was a pretty impressive character, true, but I think you might have gone a bit too far. Belisarius may be known as the "Last General", but Justinian is known as the "Last Roman". He:

Came from a peasant family and rose to the position of emperor through the use of ability rather than force.
Was effectively in charge for a decade before he became emperor, which is also indicative of considerable ability.
Had a talent for picking people who'd be good at their jobs and persuading everyone else to let them have those roles on the basis of merit (which was not a given in an aristocratic society). He also had a talent for getting the best out of these people.

During his reign, great strides were made in:

Reforming Roman law.
Reforming the administration of the empire and of its taxes.
Conquering stuff.
Holding together, albeit tenously and temporarily, various Christian sects.
Completing significant public works.
Sparking an Eastern Roman cultural renaissance.

Belisarius had a lot to do with the third of these achievements, but the first and second were far more significant. They continue to shape the world even today.

Justinian FTW!

After Justinian - Roman Empire and money account never recovered..:stwshame:

edit: But I would say that the head's of the state's are always counted for everything good that happen's :)

konny

12-11-2007, 23:47

Charlemagne and his "Holy Roman Empire" is overrated.

"The Holy Roman Empire is not holy, not Roman, and not an empire." - Voltaire

More like the quasi-fundamentalist Frankish Confederation to me...

Taking into account that Voltaire lived about 1,000 years after Karl the Great, he was probbaly right by judging on what he saw. During the Middle Ages things were quite different and the Emporer was in fact regarded as the foremost of the Christian (or better: Catholic) monarchs. Of course, compared to an Alexander or Augustus he was more the one-eyed amongst the blind.

Horst Nordfink

12-12-2007, 01:33

Simon Bolivar.

Friedrich Engels.

Che Guevara.

Ho Chi Minh.

Richard Neville, 16th Earl of Warwick.

Cyclops

12-12-2007, 03:24

A movie about Hannibal is being planned, starring Vin Diesel :inquisitive: .:wall:

Oh yes, I remember now. Maybe it won't be a disaster? He does look mildly Lebanese...

Still what will the script be like? "You're not afraid of the Dorkim Lubim-Ponnim Mesoorianim are you?" "Look at you Marcellus, all back-of-the-bus and shit". "You made three mistakes. First, you took the job. Second, you came light. A four legion crew for me? Fucking insulting. But the worst mistake you made...empty ballistae rack".

At least its not Arnie. "Hasta la vista, Varro"

...I imagine the tone to be closer to that of a Vietnam movie. Indeed, the parallels are very interesting. Guerilla warfare in an ancient epic? Could be bloody interesting.

Fair enough too, many of the actions in the Anabasis were nasty local/irregular affairs. In a similar vein, the Roman conquest in Spain was a bloody-handed vengeful 200 years.

On the use of English, I felt the accents in Alexander worked well, as a shiorthand way of showing shades of dialect in Macedon and the rest of Hellas.

I have imagined a film on Plataea where the Thebans have English accents, the Athenians sound like Americans ("can do!") and the Spartans say virtually nothing...with German accents of course.

russia almighty

12-12-2007, 03:41

Jackie Brown , the Juggernaut .

Seriously Charles XII doesn't get any love .

Horst Nordfink

12-12-2007, 04:02

A movie about Hannibal is being planned, starring Vin Diesel :inquisitive: .:wall:

Vin Diesel couldn't act his way out of a wet paper bag! That film will suck balls! Typical Hollywood bullshit with about as much historical accuracy as U-571, The Patriot, Braveheart or 300!

It is nigh-on impossible to J-turn an elephant!!

EDIT: Hot shit! I've just read that he's going to direct it too!! Will this be as bad as 300?

Cyclops

12-12-2007, 06:00

...Seriously Charles XII doesn't get any love .

Is that 'cause he's an arsehole? I was in Sweden 10 years ago and a couple of locals told me he was shot by his own men, and that he deserved it.

...It is nigh-on impossible to J-turn an elephant!!...

What an image! Massive elephantoi drifties with Polybian principes tumbling slo mo, maybe a Matrix style leaping elephant hanging in mid-air, Crouching Dragon Elephants tree-top fighting...

Maybe they could include Nicholas Cage for the prequel "Gone in LX Seconds", where he hotwires and steals elephants from Pyhrrus' army