What's the deal with zeal?

[bamff]

Something that I had never really considered in great detail before, having mainly played as Catholic factions....but what is the how is the liklihood of troops joining a passing crusade affected by zeal in an Orthodox province? Is it just the same old "higher zeal means more hopping on board" or is there some form of modifier to reflect the fact that we are talking about a different faith (albeit both nominally christian), or are Ortho provinces unaffected by passing crusades.

I will confess that as the Byz I never noticed (possibly because they were all aimed at me anyway - curse those Catholics from the west!), and I have yet to see a crusade pass through my Serbian empire....

[Mouzafphaerre]

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AFAIK high zeal in Cath provinces increase the chance of your crusading armies growing. Similarly, Muslim provinces with high zeal contribute more to the jihad armies.
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[I of the Storm]

Zeal in orthodox provinces seems irrelevant to me. I had crusader armies passing through my lands (as Byz) and nobody of my troops joined them. Likewise, playing as the catholics, I never experienced byzantine troops join my crusade.

[Martok]

Zeal in orthodox provinces seems irrelevant to me. I had crusader armies passing through my lands (as Byz) and nobody of my troops joined them. Likewise, playing as the catholics, I never experienced byzantine troops join my crusade.
This has generally been my experience as well. I don't think Orthodox factions are affected by zeal one way or the other.

[caravel]

Orthodox factions have no agents capable of raising zeal in a province. Zeal is only relevant to crusades and jihads.

[amritochates]

Well!! Well!! coughs significantly!! checks year and finds out that he is indeed a centenerarian today!! and starts to reminscince:

Well, back in my day when we used to consult those excellent guides by lady frogbeastegg which are so prominently stickied in the guides forum for all such queries:

Never the mind I will answer your queries to best of my abilities, sorry as they are-

As we all know the otrhodox factions cannot crusade, in compensation for this their generals are immune from inquisitors besides those who were orignally christian, and their troops do not join crusades.

However a crusade will and does siphon money from your provinces as long as they are there. The amount of money is proprtional to the zeal of said province. Hence for orthodox factions it is of utmost importance to deploy agents so as to reduce the zeal in all subject provinces.

[Heidrek]

Doesn't Zeal also affect how much your governors Piety stat affects happiness?

A highly Zealous province should respond better to a Governor with high piety shouldn't it?

[caravel]

As we all know the otrhodox factions cannot crusade, in compensation for this their generals are immune from inquisitors besides those who were orignally christian, and their troops do not join crusades.
All non catholic generals are immune to the Inquisition, this includes Pagan, Orthodox and Muslim faction leaders/heirs/generals. Catholics bribed by non catholic factions take on the faction's religion and so, become immune to the Inquisition.

However a crusade will and does siphon money from your provinces as long as they are there. The amount of money is proprtional to the zeal of said province.
Crusades don't siphon money from provinces, they will drain away men from units in catholic provinces dependant on the provincial zeal. Crusades will often loot Orthodox provinces that they pass through, this is usually the first Orthodox province that the crusade enters if given permission by the owning faction to pass through their lands. The amount looted is unrelated to the zeal of the province.

Hence for orthodox factions it is of utmost importance to deploy agents so as to reduce the zeal in all subject provinces.
There are no agents that an Orthodox faction can deploy to perform such a function. Orthodox Priests and Bishops do have the capability to lower or raise zeal. Similarly no other agents such as Emissaries, Princesses nor Assassins and Spies have the ability to lower/raise zeal.

:bow:

[bamff]

Thank you one and all for your informative responses! :2thumbsup:

One other query though - what if the province concerned was originally Catholic and still has a fair portion of true believers among the populace? Any impact in such situations?

For example, in my current Serbian campaign, I have conquered Venice and Austria. Both still have a number of good Catholics in residence, but they are steadily being converted to the word of the orthodox church...if a crusade were to pass through now, would I find some of my troops renewing their faith as good catholics, or not? :inquisitive:

[Heidrek]

I don't think so, I think it's like an on/off switch, the religion of the province is determined by the province owner, not the proportion of the population that follows each faith.

For example, a catholic faction conquers a muslim held teritory. This is now technically a Catholic province, even though 80% of the populace follow islam.

Caravel, can you confirm this - you seem to be one of the gods of all things MTW around here!

Also, I have a crusade parked a couple of provinces from it's target, Constantinople in a Hungarian teritory, if I leave it there for a few more turns will it keep drawing in more and more troops? Is there any reason not to leave it there for a while?

[seireikhaan]

Keeping a crusade in the same province for more than two turns usually results in desertion, so generally its a good idea to keep it moving, with the only exceptions being really high zeal provinces, in which case, I'd still say no more than three turns in a province.

[Martok]

Doesn't Zeal also affect how much your governors Piety stat affects happiness?

A highly Zealous province should respond better to a Governor with high piety shouldn't it?
Provided the governor is of the same religion as the province he's governing, then yes. If a governor is of a *different* religion, however, then that's another story entirely.

In other words, a Catholic general with a high piety rating is a good choice for governing a province that's mostly Catholic. However, he would be a poor choice for governing a mostly Muslim province -- particularly if the Muslims living there are of the more zealous variety -- as he would stir up the local populace against him. In that case, it would be better to select a general with a high dread rating instead, and/or a general with traits (such as Affable, Approachable Manner, etc.) that give happiness bonuses to his subjects.

Of course if that province's population (or at least a majority of it) were eventually converted to Catholicism, then naturally it would be no problem to install a high-piety Catholic governor there.

[Martok]

Thank you one and all for your informative responses! :2thumbsup:

One other query though - what if the province concerned was originally Catholic and still has a fair portion of true believers among the populace? Any impact in such situations?

For example, in my current Serbian campaign, I have conquered Venice and Austria. Both still have a number of good Catholics in residence, but they are steadily being converted to the word of the orthodox church...if a crusade were to pass through now, would I find some of my troops renewing their faith as good catholics, or not? :inquisitive:
As best I've been able to tell, the most important factor is usually whatever the "majority" religion of that province currently *is* -- and not what the main religion used to be.

So with Venice and Austria in your current Serbian campaign, the key issue will be whether Orthodox Christianity has a majority there yet or not. If the majority of people in those two provinces are now Orthodox, then a high zeal there *shouldn't* matter.


Note: Bear in mind, however, it's been about 6 months since I last played MTW -- I'm just now starting to play again -- and that my memory is a little fuzzy on this issue. So you may want to heed my words with a grain of salt or two. ~;)

[amritochates]

Crusades don't siphon money from provinces, they will drain away men from units in catholic provinces dependant on the provincial zeal. Crusades will often loot Orthodox provinces that they pass through, this is usually the first Orthodox province that the crusade enters if given permission by the owning faction to pass through their lands. The amount looted is unrelated to the zeal of the province.

That is incorrect- to test play a early GA game with the .deadringer. command. Play as a turtler and in one case deploy orthodox priests/bishops in serbia and bulgaria and in the other don't. Donot conquer any crusade targets to mantain the test conditions. There will be clear difference in the amount of money looted.

The second part of my post refered to the above whereby orthodox priests/bishops are deployed they being religious agents.

Catholics bribed by non catholic factions take on the faction's religion and so, become immune to the Inquisition. However mercenary units orignally of catholic faith are not immune from the inquistion even if you are playing a pagan faction.

[caravel]

That is incorrect- to test play a early GA game with the .deadringer. command. Play as a turtler and in one case deploy orthodox priests/bishops in serbia and bulgaria and in the other don't. Donot conquer any crusade targets to mantain the test conditions. There will be clear difference in the amount of money looted.
Orthodox priests and Bishops do not have any effect on zeal - they only increase orthodox religious percentage in a province. Go into the unit prod file and check for yourself.

However mercenary units orignally of catholic faith are not immune from the inquistion even if you are playing a pagan faction.
This is more of a bug. Rebel units are supposed to be immune to the inquistion but occasionally you can burn those rebels that result from a civil war.