toilet paper

[Centurion Crastinus]

I know this is a stupid question, but what did ancient cultures use for toilet paper. Someone asked me this today and for the life of me I couldn't give them a logical answer. I don't think papyrus reeds would be the answer. Maybe the 'ol left hand did the trick.

[tapanojum]

Good question, I'm afraid of hearing the answer.

[Elthore]

romans used sponges on the end of sticks...and they shared it

they shat together too, without stalls

[Wolfman]

I'm so happy for private stalls and toilet paper:sweatdrop:

[Apgad]

The army that shits together...

[tapanojum]

The army that shits together...

I guess they were the equivalent of the Sacred Band of Thebes.


and I thought using that bigass leaf when I really had to go as a child in the "open" was uncomfortable...

[Centurion Crastinus]

A sponge, thats friggin nasty, altough taking a dump without stall doors isn't humiliating as one might think. I had to do that at OCS and once you get used to it the whole process is normal enough.

[amritochates]

They could have gone with the old H2O + left hand combo that is used throughout asia.

[Long lost Caesar]

in the east they do use their left hand...i remember in some gulf war film (three kings or jarhead) an american waves to some arabs with his left hand and his mate says 'you retard, they wipe their asses with their left hands! stop insulting them!' hoo raa for the marine corps.

[tapanojum]

in the east they do use their left hand...i remember in some gulf war film (three kings or jarhead) an american waves to some arabs with his left hand and his mate says 'you retard, they wipe their asses with their left hands! stop insulting them!' hoo raa for the marine corps.

This explains why all my Armenian relatives love kissing and hugging each other but NEVER hand shaking...phooooweeee:laugh4:

[L.C.Cinna]

As someone already said, the Romans used sponges on sticks. the sponges are then put into a channel with flowing water where they were kept. Pots of vinegar (acid) are also suggested to have been used before putting them into the cleaning channel.

Here a reconstruction including the acid pot and the cleaning channels:

http://users.bestweb.net/~bennetc/Romans.jpg


Roman toilet in Lepcis Magna. You can see the cleaning channel in front (http://home.cogeco.ca/~rweatherston/images/Leptus%20Magnus/Roman-Toilets--web.jpg)

[tapanojum]

The guy on the right doesn't look too happy there

great find btw

[L.C.Cinna]

yes look at him. it's like...

Guy standing next to him: "Oh and Licius did I tell you about my new piercing?"

Lucius:"Yes you did"

Guy:"but did I show it to you?"

Lucius:"Yeeeeeeheeees" :wall:

Guy:"yes but look it's not that swollen anymore already..." *starts to open pants*

Lucius:"Now will you shut up and let me sh*t." :furious3:

Guy:"ok sorry Lucius, I'll show you back in the sleeping quarters right. Btw did I tell you I got a letter from my good old friend Septimius Stultus?"


Lucius:" Yes you DID...."

Guy:" You now, last year when we...."


Lucius *throws sponge*

[Baldrick]

Bad oyster

[Reno Melitensis]

Only Jupiter knows what a nasty mixture of aroma would vinegar and shit produce. As the greeks and romans had a god for almost everything, do you thing did they ever considered having a god for the blessing of the ass and intestines. Imagine having a belly ache, and praying that particular god for relieve.

Cheers.

[tapanojum]

Only Jupiter knows what a nasty mixture of aroma would vinegar and shit produce. As the greeks and romans had a god for almost everything, do you thing did they ever considered having a god for the blessing of the ass and intestines. Imagine having a belly ache, and praying that particular god for relieve.

Cheers.

that would be one awkward prayer :beam:

[J.Alco]

If that's what Romans did, what did the 'barbarian' civilizations (Iberians, Gauls, Dacians, etc) do? Use big leaves and a discrete tree?

...Oh God, horrible thought just emerged...imagine using a bunch of leaves...that turn out to be stinging nettles? :dizzy2:

[Narhon]

A sponge, thats friggin nasty, altough taking a dump without stall doors isn't humiliating as one might think. I had to do that at OCS and once you get used to it the whole process is normal enough.


unless your Major sits beside you in a room with 20 toilets and no one in the room but tow of you.:book:

[KARTLOS]

did they have soap?

[KARTLOS]

apparantly not really - although it did exist at the time the romans didnt understand its properties and didnt use it.

i find the idea of never being able to wash my face, hands etc with some kind of a soap fairly disgusting.

[Danest]

If it hasn't been invented yet, use olive oil instead. ;) For everything.

[Pharnakes]

Kartlos, what was the point in asking and then answering your own post?

[TWFanatic]

Lol

The Romans discovered soap from the Celts. Prior to that, they would just "sweat out" dirt and grime in the bath houses, and rinse their hands on the way out from the potty room. They also had slaves or servants who'd scrape their bodies clean.

Cleanliness still was a problem, even in a city like Rome with sewers, plumbing, and aqueducts providing a constant supply of fresh water. Although these would help reduce water born diseases such as dysentery and typhoid--scourges of metropolitan life until the 20th century--other Roman habits would actually help spread them. People with bowel infections, for example, were urged to bathe their exposed anuses n the public bathwater that other people bathed in! And as previously mentioned, communal as well as private brushes were used instead of paper in public lavatories, another effective way of spreading germs.

But if you think that's bad, remember that in many medieval villages, people would dumb their shit out the window onto the street. I think that's when hats became popular.:shrug:

[Maeran]

you think that's bad. One medieval use for 'night soil' was as manure in the vegetable patch.

This is why a lot of traditional European cooking involves boiling the veg.

[Pharnakes]

Nothing wrong with that.

Just make sure to wash it throughly.

[Centurion Crastinus]

unless your Major sits beside you in a room with 20 toilets and no one in the room but tow of you.:book:


Yeah, I had the Company First Sergeant sit next to me in the outhouse during a field exercise. Damn that was awkward.

[Centurion Crastinus]

you think that's bad. One medieval use for 'night soil' was as manure in the vegetable patch.

This is why a lot of traditional European cooking involves boiling the veg.


At the sewage treatment plants that I have been to, the treated water is pumped into the river and the left overs are used as soil fertilizer for crops.

[Rodion Romanovich]

This thread got me thinking - won't the people in 1000 years from now ask: did they really use toilet paper back then? :oops:

[TWFanatic]

Duh they'll have time machines. Archeology will be a thing of the past.

Of course, in 1000 years the sun will be a dark chunk of coal the size of your forehead. Better bring flashlights, cause it'll be chilly.

This is a vague estimation of course...

[Long lost Caesar]

how will THEY clean their asses in the future? *looks thoughtfully to the ceiling and waits for scrubs producers to make a HI-larious scene*

[blank]

how will THEY clean their asses in the future? *looks thoughtfully to the ceiling and waits for scrubs producers to make a HI-larious scene*

In the future, all people will be hooked up to a virtual reality where they can do whatever they want, while their earthly bodies are connected to various machines providing nutrition and removing waste (i assume the easiest way to do that is to plug some kind of pipe into your ass, so no need to wipe anything...) :no:

[Watchman]

At the sewage treatment plants that I have been to, the treated water is pumped into the river and the left overs are used as soil fertilizer for crops.Fertilizer is the classic way to do something useful with crap. The manure of domestic animals works better though, AFAIK.

...mind you, one traditional peasant use for shit was to feed it to the pigs, along with whatever other organic waste the household produced. The animals can eat and digest it, largely without complications AFAIK, but... eww.


But if you think that's bad, remember that in many medieval villages, people would dumb their shit out the window onto the street. I think that's when hats became popular.Villages ? That was the normal practice in a settlement of any size... if you were lucky there was some sort of gutter or open sewer by which the stuff flowed away (in theory at least).

Put this way: the Versailles only got a WC ("in the English fashion", it was described) sometime in the late 1700s...

And yes, between the predictably frequent outbreaks of disease, the malnutrition and violence, cities maintained their populations primarily on constant influx of new inhabitants from the hinterland.

[Watchman]

In the future, all people will be hooked up to a virtual reality where they can do whatever they want, while their earthly bodies are connected to various machines providing nutrition and removing waste (i assume the easiest way to do that is to plug some kind of pipe into your ass, so no need to wipe anything...) :no:Meh, meatbods are so last century. Upload yourself and dump that statist baggage. :robot:

[Maeran]

Fertilizer is the classic way to do something useful with crap. The manure of domestic animals works better though, AFAIK.

Well, the main problem with using human waste, as far as I can see, is that using it as a fertiliser gives human parasites (largely bacterial, but to make it worse, the tapeworm has undercooked pork as a vector on its way to your gut) a short cut back to a warm and comfy home.

If the stuff we produce now gets sold as fertiliser; thank what gods you believe in that I grew up relatively poor, and as such grew up with the casserole, scouse, colcollen and many other kinds of dish with everything boiled to hell. The thought that I may have been brought up to appreciate 'al dente' vegetables and rare meat takes on a new and unthought of horror.

[Watchman]

Well, the main problem with using human waste, as far as I can see, is that using it as a fertiliser gives human parasites (largely bacterial, but to make it worse, the tapeworm has undercooked pork as a vector on its way to your gut) a short cut back to a warm and comfy home.Yeah well, one needs to recall that until quite recently (to paraphrase Pratchett) people believed the best defense against the disease demons was a good stink...

And that folks had absolutely no issues with taking their drinking water out of the same lake or river an entire major city dumped its crap in.

[Dayve]

This thread got me thinking - won't the people in 1000 years from now ask: did they really use toilet paper back then? :oops:

They'll have the three seashells. They will laugh at our primitive techniques.

[Maeran]

Yeah well, one needs to recall that until quite recently (to paraphrase Pratchett) people believed the best defense against the disease demons was a good stink...

Ah yes, the 'smell' theory of disease, which made it into the mid 19th century.

I don't recognise the Pratchett reference, and I am a fan. Where's that from?

[Watchman]

Good Omens IIRC. (The term is "miasma", BTW, although P's quip here would be a sort of reverse, as foul miasma was long reckoned to be the cause of illnesses; I'm hazarding a guess that it was partially some sort of mistaken correlation made between marsh gas and the fact swamplands were Plague Holes O'Death as they host such generous numbers of micro-life inimical to humans.)

[Akashic]

That pic is acutally very interesting L.C.Cinna. Althought I´d still rather have a bathroom and toilet paper.

Ofc, when you gotta go, you just gotta go :laugh4:

[Intranetusa]

Toilet paper was invented in the Han Dynasty I believe. The emperors and his court used gigantic "extra plush" toilet papers. (each square was 1-2 feet wide)

I'm not kidding...

[KARTLOS]

Kartlos, what was the point in asking and then answering your own post?


that would be one awkward prayer :beam:

there was probably a half hour interval between the two. i was intrigued so i looked it up, the second post was supposed to included this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap#History

[artavazd]

This explains why all my Armenian relatives love kissing and hugging each other but NEVER hand shaking...phooooweeee:laugh4:


uhhhhhh.... Italians kiss alot too so what also we shake hands ALOT. Arab customs dont relate to Armenians learn about Armenian customs before making comments like that ok???

[tapanojum]

uhhhhhh.... Italians kiss alot too so what also we shake hands ALOT. Arab customs dont relate to Armenians learn about Armenian customs before making comments like that ok???

I am Armenian. I tried to make a very exaggerated joke that wasn't necessarily true. I didn't realize you would view a topic on "ancient ass-wiping" so seriously ahper.:inquisitive:

[pezhetairoi]

Maybe that's why Japanese prefer bowing to each other. xP

[Watchman]

Some cynic offered that the Japanese bow so deeply so that the expression the one doing it makes is hidden from the other party, mind...

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

...in many medieval villages...
Like Paris? :inquisitive:

Fertilizer is the classic way to do something useful with crap. The manure of domestic animals works better though, AFAIK.
According to what I saw some time ago in a documentary, the city of Shanghai uses a system of processing the sewerage into fertilizer used in the surrounding plantations that provide most of the city's vegetable demand.
.

[TWFanatic]

Geeze...Village/Town/City it's all the same thing here (though the term village isn't used as it is in Europe). I chose village because it was the most medieval sounding. Give me a break.

[MerlinusCDXX]

Only Jupiter knows what a nasty mixture of aroma would vinegar and shit produce. As the greeks and romans had a god for almost everything, do you thing did they ever considered having a god for the blessing of the ass and intestines. Imagine having a belly ache, and praying that particular god for relieve.

Cheers.

what would they call this deity, Peptos Bismolos :laugh4: :laugh4:
or the Latin, Peptus

[Intranetusa]

Maybe that's why Japanese prefer bowing to each other. xP

Naw man, the Japanese also had toilet paper (imported from dynasties ie. Tang the paper making processes). Bowing is just from Confucianism...

[Cyclops]

I know this is a stupid question, but what did ancient cultures use for toilet paper. ....

I think the Spartans used to use Persians when they could get them :inquisitive: .

I hazily recall the one about Chinese inventing toilet paper from my Chinese history class.

Rabelais has a gross joke about wiping your arse with a goose's neck in preference to a range of other things including a nun's habit IIRC, but thats not really ancient.

In the 18th century some British writer (Johnson? Boswell?) was caught short without paper having a poo in Holland: a kindly lass offered him her sea-shell scraper, so the "three seashell" thing isn't really sci-fi. I imagine variations have been in use forever.

Then there's the one about Noah and Christopher Columbus....

[artavazd]

I am Armenian. I tried to make a very exaggerated joke that wasn't necessarily true. I didn't realize you would view a topic on "ancient ass-wiping" so seriously ahper.:inquisitive:


The person made a comment on ARAB customs from the Gulf nations (Kuwait, Qatar, Arab Emirates ect.)

How is that tied in with anything Armenian? Why didnt a Swede, or German, or Romanian make the same comment as you did? People have misconceptions about Armenians, and what you did was enforce those misconceptiions by tieing in Arab middle eastern customs with Armenian.

[tapanojum]

The person made a comment on ARAB customs from the Gulf nations (Kuwait, Qatar, Arab Emirates ect.)

How is that tied in with anything Armenian? Why didnt a Swede, or German, or Romanian make the same comment as you did? People have misconceptions about Armenians, and what you did was enforce those misconceptiions by tieing in Arab middle eastern customs with Armenian.

That guys post started off with "in the east they do use their left hand.." which he followed up by giving an example of a movie involving some Arabs. Although Armenians are not Arabs, we are located in the east or at least "Near East". A Swede, or German are not even relatively close to the east.

This whole thread is a joke and it seems like you've run into some personal situations where people had misconceptions that may have offended you, which is why your so damn serious here.

Like I said, this entire thread has been full of people making jokes and laughing about ancient ass wiping. If you really must, go ahead and start a thread explaining Armenian customs that way NO ONE will ever have any misconceptions. I for one don't really care much what people think.

"(imported from dynasties ie. Tang the paper making processes)."

Actually in class we were talking about the Tang dynasty, and when asked what were their accomplishments were and importance I started explaining the Wu Tang Clan and what hits they made. Was one interesting turn of events.....not that anyone cares :laugh4:

[artavazd]

That guys post started off with "in the east they do use their left hand.." which he followed up by giving an example of a movie involving some Arabs. Although Armenians are not Arabs, we are located in the east or at least "Near East". A Swede, or German are not even relatively close to the east.
This whole thread is a joke and it seems like you've run into some personal situations where people had misconceptions that may have offended you, which is why your so damn serious here.
Like I said, this entire thread has been full of people making jokes and laughing about ancient ass wiping. If you really must, go ahead and start a thread explaining Armenian customs that way NO ONE will ever have any misconceptions. I for one don't really care much what people think.

"(imported from dynasties ie. Tang the paper making processes)."

Actually in class we were talking about the Tang dynasty, and when asked what were their accomplishments were and importance I started explaining the Wu Tang Clan and what hits they made. Was one interesting turn of events.....not that anyone cares :laugh4:



East of What?? east of Poland? East of France?, East of Kazakhistan? These are the misconceptions Im talking about. The topic is not the point, but what I am merely saying is dont fuel misconceptions.

I havent been personaly offended. It's just that people see Armenia is in the "East" and assume we are "Middle Eastern" AKA Arab muslim. No one will make that misconception if they see Armenians, and Armenia.

[tapanojum]

Most people understand what "In the East" is being reffered to.

Yes I understand what you are saying. I always have to say "No we are not middle eastern, and no we are not muslim"

[artavazd]

Most people understand what "In the East" is being reffered to.

Yes I understand what you are saying. I always have to say "No we are not middle eastern, and no we are not muslim"


That is my point brother. When you say most people understand what "In the East" is being reffered to, that in itself holds many misconceptions. During EB's time, "the East" was mostly inhabited by Indo-Eurpean peoples. (Armenians, Persians, Parthians, Sarmatians ect.) The demographics have changed alot since the Muslim invasions and conquests of the middle ages.
So in essence Armenians ( and Iranians) are the remenent of what "The East" was during EB's time frame.

[tapanojum]

We should start a thread, and let people know whats really up ahper =]

Although when a pretty girl asks if I'm Lebanese,Persian,Italian, or Greek I ussually say "close enough" and go to a Lebanese,Persian,Italian, or Greek party and fit in for a while haha

[artavazd]

We should start a thread, and let people know whats really up ahper =]

Although when a pretty girl asks if I'm Lebanese,Persian,Italian, or Greek I ussually say "close enough" and go to a Lebanese,Persian,Italian, or Greek party and fit in for a while haha


We do look similar to those people mentioned (some Lebanese). :2thumbsup:

[cmacq]

The true US hegemony.

As of October of 2000, the United States is the leading producer of TP, with Japan coming in second place, and China in third place.


Australia received 103,466 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S, at a value of $223,000. Canada received 28,880,996 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $44,331,000. Mexico received 3,724,647 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $5,466,000. Haiti received 188,803 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $253,000. China received 7,813 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $10,000. Ireland received 3,628 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $5,000. Jamaica received 215,574 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $321,000. Italy received 9,207 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $11,000. Saudi Arabia received 26,290 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $38,000. Taiwan received 129,139 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $107,000. United Kingdom received 281,933 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $579,000. Spain received 14,550 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $41,000. The Philippines received 72,228 Kilograms of Toilet Paper from the U.S., at a value of $156,000.


Top consumers of paper and paperboard used in TP per person in pounds for 1995 Countries Weight (pounds)

U.S. ....................730
Finland .................669
Belgium .................565
Japan ....................526
Canada ..................505
Singapore ...............502
Taiwan ...................492
Switzerland ..............476
Denmark ..................471
New Zealand .............468
Brazil ........................77
China ........................48
Indonesia ...................31
Soviet Union ...............28

Chinese experts anticipate that by the end of the year 2000 more than 2.8 million tons of toilet paper will be needed in China, and the annual growth rate of paper production and consumption will hit 8 percent. They say medium and high quality toilet paper, napkins, and diapers will all be particularly popular on the domestic sanitary paper market. With the improvement of the quality of life, China's average per capita sanitary paper consumption has increased from 0.8 kilograms in 1994 to 1.6 kilograms at present.

And it goes on and on...

[Intranetusa]

"(imported from dynasties ie. Tang the paper making processes)."

Actually in class we were talking about the Tang dynasty, and when asked what were their accomplishments were and importance I started explaining the Wu Tang Clan and what hits they made. Was one interesting turn of events.....not that anyone cares :laugh4:


lol, the funny thing is that the Wu Tang Clan got their name from that movie "36 chambers of Shaolin" or something...

[HarunTaiwan]

In Indonesia, you use your left hand. But first you splash water on your rear.

It works pretty well. Then you wash your hands very thoroughly.

Foreigners who are left handed have trouble because you're not supposed to use your left hand for handing people things, etc.

Might want to wrap your minds around that seeing as how the Green movement will eventually try to ban toilet paper.

[tapanojum]

lol, the funny thing is that the Wu Tang Clan got their name from that movie "36 chambers of Shaolin" or something...

Yeah, the track with Rahzel beatboxing and RZA freestyling to it, at first Rahzel makes martial arts kicking/punching noises and talks like a 1970's Chinese Film.

"Your art of Wu Tang is powerful"

[Gugus]

I was on holiday in the Ukraine once and you can not dump used TP into the toilet there becouse it will block the pipe. They have a separate bin for used TP - I leave the rest to your imagination...
G

[Intranetusa]

In Indonesia, you use your left hand. But first you splash water on your rear.



Then it must be an Islamic cultural thing...Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world, after all...

[TWFanatic]

In Indonesia, you use your left hand. But first you splash water on your rear.

Toilet water? :inquisitive:



Foreigners who are left handed have trouble because you're not supposed to use your left hand for handing people things, etc.
Who cares what hand one uses? Are you telling me that Indonesians are *gasp* handist???

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
I can't think of a toilet without water! :stare: I use slightly wetted tp first, then wash it...and of course wash my hands with a lot of soap and plentiful water afterwards.
.

[blank]

.
I use slightly wetted tp first, then wash it
.

You wash used toilet paper? :beam:

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
:laugh4: I walked into this one! :yes:

Just in case people really confuse, no, I wash my aß.
.

[quackingduck]

without soap to wash your face, teenagers must have got REEEAAALLY bad acne.

[tapanojum]

without soap to wash your face, teenagers must have got REEEAAALLY bad acne.

I think this was the least of their worries. (nasty ass teeth and such):skull:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Except if you were a clean and civilized Gaul, where the soap was already invented... ~:) (don't know about their teeth though...)

[CirdanDharix]

That's what you used those scrapers for in the Gymnasion. It removed the oil you put on your body before showing off, the dead skin, and while you were at it, the dirt.

[Watchman]

Their teeth should have been in reasonably decent condition you know. There would have been the usual problem of most agrarian societies - fine sand in flour from the millstones - but European dental health only actually nosedived with the introduction of sugar from the Americas. The effect was much similar in general terms to that of the introduction of distilled alcoholics to societies unfamiliar with them. (People who ate a lot of fruits, and as such were used to sweets, apparnetly never went as gaga over sugar.)

[delablake]

I was on holiday in the Ukraine once and you can not dump used TP into the toilet there becouse it will block the pipe. They have a separate bin for used TP - I leave the rest to your imagination...
G

same sh*t happening in southern Italy, Greece, Spain etc.
fact is, Northeners will still flush the carta cacata down the drain lol

[delablake]

Their teeth should have been in reasonably decent condition you know. There would have been the usual problem of most agrarian societies - fine sand in flour from the millstones - but European dental health only actually nosedived with the introduction of sugar from the Americas. The effect was much similar in general terms to that of the introduction of distilled alcoholics to societies unfamiliar with them. (People who ate a lot of fruits, and as such were used to sweets, apparnetly never went as gaga over sugar.)

(in a historic-fiction-book about Legio X I read that the Romans used water mixed with vinegar to rinse their mouth and teeth, much the same style as to wash their butts)
not to forget the introduction of syphilis and tobacco, :beam: