View Full Version : why cant u give it away (BI RTW stupid A.I)
:help: why cant u give it away! i dont seem to be able to give regions away to AI factions, i usually get the response we cannot match your offer...huh! i'm givin it away! is there a rectification to this?
also my allies wont join in the fight claimin they wont see my troops on the battlefield when they are right there waitin to go
i have BI installed, no mods
Omanes Alexandrapolites
12-05-2007, 13:39
Hi sjmxru,
:help: why cant u give it away! i dont seem to be able to give regions away to AI factions, i usually get the response we cannot match your offer...huh! i'm givin it away! is there a rectification to this?Sorry, but no - the AI is harcoded. In other words, it cannot be changed through basic modding. Its shame, since the AI often isn't very wise - especially when it comes to diplomacy.
There is a way of cheating your way around it though. Just before you submit your offer/demand press the ` key, directly below the "Esc" key, on your keyboard to open up the console.
In the area provided type:
"force_diplomacy accept"
Then press enter, and close the console using the ` key again.
This will force the AI to accept the deal placed before them. It is a very useful cheat when used in moderation, and under sensible circumstances (i.e. when a "real" player would probably accept your deal).
Other useful cheats related to diplomacy are:
"force_diplomacy decline" - forces the AI to turn down your diplomatic offer
"force_diplomacy off" - cancels out any previously entered "force_diplomacy" commands.
also my allies wont join in the fight claimin they wont see my troops on the battlefield when they are right there waitin to goI'm sorry, but I'm a little confused as to your meaning. Could you describe this problem in more detail please? Thanks.
~:)
The diplomacy in RTW is notoriously flakey. In my current campaign as Egypt, which is one of my favourite, if rather ahistorical, factions in the game. I have had multiple ceasefire offers from the Seluecids and Pontus, whom have been attacking me year after year. Every time they offer a ceasefire I counter the offer with a demand that they give Sardis (Pontus) or Damascus (Seleucid). This works every time and they accept even though the proposal would "shame a helot". Then either the same turn or the following one they besiege the city they've just handed over to me. Damscus I've held on to for years and have now developed. Sardis in it's isolated position I simply couldn't reinforce but have defended it a few times successfully after stealing it from under their noses no less than three times through the ceasefire diplomacy trick.
I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused as to your meaning. Could you describe this problem in more detail please? Thanks.
~:)
I think maybe he's referring to the "ask faction x to attack faction y" type diplomacy and of faction x refusing?
thanks Al, i'll try that cheat when it seems, as u say, a player would accept
caravel your on the money, its attack if i do but they wont even when they are rivals
i get offers of ceasefire & become protectorate & like u say next turn bang, even when u get them to cough up a city or cash, nutters!
My favourite one is: "Ceasefire - accept or we will attack". So stop the war or you will attack me eh? Then if you offer the counter proposal the default is "please do not attack - accept or we will attack". It seems to me that a faction begging for a ceasefire is in no position to really threaten an attack if you don't accept it?!
i find that once u have been refused once then they dont want to know u, so i take it bit at a time, trade rights..... alliance......map info for..... give region f(rom me as gift)
on the flip side of stupid AI, u gotta love the greeks, doesn't seem to matter how many times u batter them in RTW they will always cough up for a ceasfire (i've funded campaigns on them):laugh4:
& is it me of do the egyptians not form alliances with anyone?
I had forgotten, but the Greeks also once attacked Sardis in the same campaign I'm playing. I had accepted Pontus' ceasefire with the additional clause that they hand over Sardis, which they accepted and then was sitting back for the usual scenario where the evicted pontic army then lays siege to my new garisson of peasants and nubian spearmen. This time though the greeks moved in and laid siege. A few turns later they attack, and my men retreat to the square and hold them off almost to the death, causing them massive casualties (considering the greek army was three times the size of my garisson then they didn't do to badly) but ultimately losing the city to the greeks. So the next thing I decide to offer the greeks a ceasefire (just to restore trade income) and thinking they won't accept anyway add in the usual "give Sardis"........... and lo and behold "the proposal would shame a helot"... and sure enough here we go again, and the next turn Pontus lay siege to Sardis...
Alex that cheat, can u spell it out only i tried it last night & it didnt work!
pushed ` in scroll area(after offer, before send), console came up, typed in force_diplomacy accept & got err try help?
even tried puttin whole thing between "" just incase
any ideas?:help:
From what I have seen, when A.I. starts to refuse gifts like provinces/maps/etc, that usually means they are gearing up to attack you. I have never seen them refuse a one-time cash infusion though (but they will turn down a yearly tribute if they are on the warpath).
Celtic_Punk
12-12-2007, 02:18
i have the same problem
vegetable
12-17-2007, 10:12
Yeah, no fan of the diplomacy A.I. While playing as the Scipii, I had the Julii down to their last army/faction member and (I think) holding no territories. I gave them 3 territories and asked them to become a protectorate. They refused. I gave them 3 territories and asked for a ceasefire (hoping they'd ally with me later). They still refused.
I have never had a protectorate!!
Omanes Alexandrapolites
12-17-2007, 23:14
I have never had a protectorate!!Yes, protectorates are a struggle to get hold of. It gets very irritaing if you are a Roman faction and the senate is demanding that you get your hands on one.
I have found though that pressure is often a good way of convincing your foes that entering your protection is probably an advisable measure. Placing all but one enemy city under siege and mass blockading of ports typically makes the enemy more willing to accept the treaty, although even then gaining their signature is fairly challenging. Cash sometimes helps with the more persistent factions, but very often its easier faster and less tedious to quite simply wipe them out.
guineawolf
12-25-2007, 15:25
which 1 gain more garrisson value in RTW:Barbarian Invasion? peasant or soldiers????:oops: :help: :sweatdrop:
Do garrisons go on troop number rather than quality. I think they do.
Omanes Alexandrapolites
12-26-2007, 10:17
Do garrisons go on troop number rather than quality. I think they do.In R:TW, that is correct. In BI, however, all units with the "peasant" attribute have half the public order effect that another unit would of that size. In vanilla BI, this attribute is only applied to the units identified under the name of "Peasants".
~:)
guineawolf
12-26-2007, 15:10
are they any way to modified it to Vanilla RTW value??
Coz i oredi get used to train peasants as garrisons(for PO of coz),just a little hard to handle the new way of public order management,and thanks for answering me!:yes:
Celtic_Punk
03-12-2008, 05:51
i find the best way to get a protectorate,Omanes Alexandrapolites, is to take every settlement but 2 or 1, and then move your armies in around their capitol, then blockade their ports (if any) and tell them youll kill them if they dont accept.
using their capitol to discuss matters seems to get more response, and or talking with the faction leader.
always juice up the deal with the promise of cash... nothing says "I love you" like a chest full of gold!:laugh4:
why cant u give it away! i dont seem to be able to give regions away to AI factions, i usually get the response we cannot match your offer...huh! i'm givin it away! is there a rectification to this?
To increase your changes for a Ai faction to accept your settlement throw some denarii in the deal.
I usually give around 3000 - 5000
Most of the time it does the trick.
Spartan198
03-18-2008, 10:09
There is a way of cheating your way around it though. Just before you submit your offer/demand press the ` key, directly below the "Esc" key, on your keyboard to open up the console.
In the area provided type:
"force_diplomacy accept"
Then press enter, and close the console using the ` key again.
This will force the AI to accept the deal placed before them. It is a very useful cheat when used in moderation, and under sensible circumstances (i.e. when a "real" player would probably accept your deal).
Other useful cheats related to diplomacy are:
"force_diplomacy decline" - forces the AI to turn down your diplomatic offer
"force_diplomacy off" - cancels out any previously entered "force_diplomacy" commands.
I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused as to your meaning. Could you describe this problem in more detail please? Thanks.
~:)
That force_diplomacy cheat doesn't seem to work.
Quirinus
03-18-2008, 12:44
Yea, I thought it was just me. It didn't work for v1.3, now it doesn't work on v1.5 (albiet with VBM). I wanted to try and simulate some actual, logical diplomacy (i.e. I offer terms which are logical and very reasonable to human players, but know that the computer won't accept).
Omanes Alexandrapolites
03-18-2008, 13:41
That force_diplomacy cheat doesn't seem to work.It turns out that it's one of the mystical cheats that was documented by the CA, but never actually worked correctly. It's a shame really - the diplomatic AI often could do with a little "assistance" in making its choices.
~:)
Quirinus
03-18-2008, 16:04
"You'll hand over lousy, poor Noricum for 10000 denarii."
"Ha! Preposterous! Bandying vords with you iz a pointless vaste of time."
*waves hand*
"You want to hand Noricum over to the Senate and the People of Rome."
"I vant to hand Noricum over to the Senate and ze People of Rome."
"You want to attack the filthy Dacians next."
"I vant to attack ze filthy Dacians next."
:3
Lots of money sweetens the deal.
Hound of Ulster
03-27-2008, 23:13
"You'll hand over lousy, poor Noricum for 10000 denarii."
"Ha! Preposterous! Bandying vords with you iz a pointless vaste of time."
*waves hand*
"You want to hand Noricum over to the Senate and the People of Rome."
"I vant to hand Noricum over to the Senate and ze People of Rome."
"You want to attack the filthy Dacians next."
"I vant to attack ze filthy Dacians next."
Jedi mind trick.
I've tried cash inducements and they never work for me. It seems certain factions get a bug up the butt for your hide and won't stop until either you are the AI faction in question have been knocked out.
CaptainBlack
03-28-2008, 05:27
Lots of money sweetens the deal.
Yea.. I usually use the money cheat before giving away a region. I give them a nice sum of money along with the city and they don't refuse.:2thumbsup:
Quirinus
03-28-2008, 10:05
Heh, that's an idea. Since it doesn't benefit the player, and it does the job in the place of the broken force_diplomacy, I don't suppose it should be considered as 'real' cheating.
How much money do you commonly give them?
CaptainBlack
03-30-2008, 01:56
Yea..In all honesty since when is giving them a province cheating lol.
But I usually put the money cheat in for 40000 then give them that same amount. It has worked for me everytime, I usually use it to start wars with countries, or aid a country.(which really doesn't work in the long run because if you help them out to much they get big-headed and attack you)
Lt Nevermind
03-30-2008, 21:38
I haven't had protectorates for quite a while so I'm not 100 % sure about how things were after a succesful bargain. Anyways I think that your protectorate pays you a certain amount of tribute each turn - I believe the amount was the protectorates treasury minus their current spendings, in other words, their leftover cash. This seemed to result in a situation where you get virtually all your 'bribery' cash back on the next turn due to the factions inability to spend X0,000 denarii on a turn. Hence, if you have lots of money already, you don't even have to use cheats for softing the alliance because you get your money back right away. I emphasize however that this is an 'ad hook' memory.
Perhaps a better solution then is to use the forced diplomacy cheat or mod, I forget the exact details.
If the AI Diplomacy is so screwed, and historically plenty of deals were done, the wars did not always go on for ever until elimination, so it's perhaps a lesser evil to use compulsion, for a sane, fair deal; rather than dodgy financial transactions.
CaptainBlack
03-31-2008, 01:09
I haven't had protectorates for quite a while so I'm not 100 % sure about how things were after a succesful bargain. Anyways I think that your protectorate pays you a certain amount of tribute each turn - I believe the amount was the protectorates treasury minus their current spendings, in other words, their leftover cash. This seemed to result in a situation where you get virtually all your 'bribery' cash back on the next turn due to the factions inability to spend X0,000 denarii on a turn. Hence, if you have lots of money already, you don't even have to use cheats for softing the alliance because you get your money back right away. I emphasize however that this is an 'ad hook' memory.
I never had that problem, I give them money and they don't fuss, and I never see it again.
Omanes Alexandrapolites
03-31-2008, 12:39
I think the protectorate is only forced to give tribute if they have more than a certain amount of funds in their treasury. Otherwise they can simply act as if the protectorate is non-existant.
~:)
Quirinus
03-31-2008, 14:55
Oh.... that's interesting. I always thought getting a protectorate didn't do anything other than making the player feel very happy-like. :grin:
Omanes Alexandrapolites
03-31-2008, 16:59
Oh.... that's interesting. I always thought getting a protectorate didn't do anything other than making the player feel very happy-like. :grin:As well as the tribute, their land effectively counts as yours. If you have twenty provinces, and the protectorate has five, then you have twenty five provinces under your control according to the game system. This makes protectorates exceedingly useful if you want land quickly without having to capture it.
It would be nice if protectorates eternally had to pay though, and you as the player could set them missions. A bit like the senate really. They also shouldn't really have diplomacy of their own, being forced to ally with your allies and being forced to be enemies with your enemies. A line of site system similar to that of the Romans would also be a nice addition.
~:)
I tried to give it away, first getting Neutral-Trade Rights with Gauls allied with Germania. Had neutral trade rights, the deal :
Region, Luvavum
Tribute, 500 dn/turn
Demand, Alliance
Answer - https://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8593/allianceregiontributekk8.th.png (https://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=allianceregiontributekk8.png)
My Influential diplomat who was more likely to get an agreement was off away, so I made a super generous deal to try this out. Now Germania is at war with Britons exactly as I suspected.
A repeat attempt with plenty of tribute, offers no Alliance option now, and they reject it, saying "you offer us land" but that army would soon re-take. This is so mindnumbingly stoopid, having not made any aggressive moves against Germania and they look a gift horse in the mouth.
This was to prop them up so they could, war with other neighbours more effectively and act as client buffer state on my poor northern border, weakening the other Barbarian faction, who might attack out of the wilderness.
Basically, trying to apply Divide & Rule, and save costs of standing border forces, in an area I can't be bothered to invade.
The suggestion in thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=101298 was to start cultivating them earlier with small tribute gifts, at the Neutral-Trade Right stage. Problem with that is later, that in the Diplomacy a "blank" means "something suitable in exchange" and there's not a "Nothing in Return" option.
Basically, it seems hardly worth bothering with, which reduces the strategy considerably. It's also annoying that it's just about impossible to coordinate attacks of mutual interest.
If you know which factions are friendly / unfriendly you could probably get more out of it, working with the grain, and steering actions to suit.
Going to capture a town, to give it to Thrace, my ally and see if they accept, if they don't it'll really prove that "Give Region" to prop up friendly states is not worth spending time on.
Long term ally Thrace. Maintained via tribute throughout game.
I went and captured Dacian capitol, sacked it, destroyed everything I could. The Thracian's were then offered their enemies newly captured region, with a somewhat reduced Tribute, and small counter-Tribute, so that it was a profitable deal.
This is rejected "Your offer of land sounds sincere, but your previous conduct leads us to suggest that you have already mustered an army to recapture them. We rejected your offer".
Previous conduct was blameless and a generous ally maintaining friendly relations, with a view to weakening a neighbour, and now trying to have an ally on the border, who can successfully prosecute their war, against other barbarians who've lost their capitol.
So I think, this case is just not anticipated by Creative. If you withdraw your forces, settlement will rebel. Give region is probably added to game, just as a way to buy a temporary peace against the AI, when a faction attacks, and you're unprepared to fight.
Basically, Diplomacy seems broken in RTW, and best ignored. Just get trade and impose Tribute on factions who negotiate for cease-fires and who you do not intend immediately to war with (either need to consolidate, or changing borders mean there's a buffer zone, owned by another faction, or simply in your interests to do the deal (Carthage & Greeks as Jullii after Senate missions).
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