Accepting portuguese traders

[antaron]

What happens when you accept the trade agreement? Does it automatically make you turn christian? If so how do you reverse it? I am playing the Mori clan and all my provinces just began a decline in their morale...uh oh i hope that doesn't lead to any religious uprisings...

[solypsist]

yep. saying "yes" to the Portuguese means you go Christian. There is no way to reverse it (and still win the game in a teimely manner) despite what some people may say. It gets you the guns, but be very sure you have secure provinces and they are very loyal, since there might be revolts, depending on which clan you're playing as.

[EasyCo]

It helps the morale and keep the uprising..you can set tax rate for Autumn (punitive) then the rates for the other seasons are (very low).

EasyCo

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Solypsist-sama, are you saying that the building of a Temple won't convert you back to Buddhism? (Even if it does, the revolts are there to stay, but...)

[solypsist]

well, building a temple doesnt remove your church building ability, erase any priests youve trained, or start reversing the christianity conversion in the provinces.
at least i havent noticed anything to change when i go christian and the decide i need monks later in the game. but, it's been a while so i might've forgotten some stuff

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Well, you're right in that the Christian stuff doesn't disappear - but then again, neither does Buddhist stuff disappear when you go Christian. Provinces "gone over" to Christianity must be converted back to Buddhism (10% Christian equals 90% Buddhist).

When you build a Temple (or possibly a Geisha House - haven't tried that) after going Christian, your status changes back to Buddhist, and you get the same conversion penalty in your loyalty that you would get when going from Buddhist to Christian. Unlike katanas, this blade cuts both ways; but technically, it's reversible.

But enough nitpicking. I'm profoundly sorry if we confused you with this little "elaboration" of ours, Antaron-san. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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"The unhappiest of all unhappy states is the republic or principality which cannot accept peace and cannot tolerate war."
- Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli

[BanzaiZAP]

I don't think you officially "go Christian" until you actually build anything. I was Shimazu, and hit Accept by accident, and spent the next five seasons holding my breath for the rebellions. Nothing happened. I continued on my merry way wiht no change. Portugese Posts and Churches were both available options, but I never built them, and my peasants never started converting. I'm thinking of making another save game, and then trying to build a trading post to see if that will set everyone off. I'll try it out.

-- B)

[borisus]

Only when you build the trading post or the church you officially become christian.

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"A WISE MAN ONCE SAID,LETS KICK THAIR ASS!"

[Tone]

Yeah I always accept christianity then don't build anything to stay buddhist. Then the annoying bloke stops coming with the treaty. There's no mpeg where he comes back 20 years later to ask why the hell you haven't built the trading post yet.

[RageFury]

WELL I JUST IGNORED THE PORTUGESE AND WAITED FOR THE DUTCH..GET GUNS AND STAY BUDDHIST..ITS QUIETER THAT WAY

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lIKE MY SHAVING BLADE? :)

[Shiro]

Just thought I'd give a link to a great earlier thread about Christianity concerning when exactly you go Christian. Personally, just like Rage, I avoid going Christian. When I do it, it's only for a challenge.

Check that thread out:
"The Christianity Challenge" (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000262.html).

[This message has been edited by Shiro (edited 05-01-2001).]

[Genji]

With all due respect I have to contradict the venerable Solypsist-sama on this particular subject. Accepting a treaty with the Portuguese gives you the option to build churches and trading stations but as with all other treaties in this game (or should I say this period in Japan’s history) it means very little. You personally convert (as a Daimiyo) at the moment (turn) after you start building a Portuguese trading station or a church. (You can check your religious standing at any time by saving the game and right clicking on the saved game afterwards). The loyalty drop takes place after one turn. However this conversion is reversible at any time by simply building a (new) Buddhist Temple. The AI does this regularly (especially Oda) so its not a bug it’s a feature!

I can therefore suggest a way to acquire early use of firearms (for the gun lovers among you http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif )with minimal penalties.

Around 1540 you should have a province with a port and a large castle ready as well as another province with a tranquil garden and a large castle.
When these strange people come to you with their revelation of the true god coupled with guns, accept.
Drop your tax rate to minimum. Start building a trading station (preferably in Owari or Tosa to get the ashigaru bonus)
At the NEXT turn start building a NEW Buddhist temple in the other province (upgrading an existing temple does not work)
Your troubles are over! You are now a Buddhist (again), loyalty is up (so that you can increase taxes again) and you have guns as well without having to wait for the Dutch.
[/list]

Essentially, what you are doing is that you convert to Christianity for a season and then convert back to Buddhism. Why the Portuguese keep providing you with guns afterwards is a mystery to me but apparently they are in favour of free trade http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Please excuse the long post.


[This message has been edited by Genji (edited 05-01-2001).]

[InterestingTimes]

The only reason why I accepted the portugese was because they kept comming back again and again and again and again and again. Eventually I wished there was that CHOP HIS DAMN HEAD OFF button. Yeesh you would think that a no means NO!

[henryh]

Although I usually try to win before all this Christianity business occurs. If you are playing for lots of cash/perfectionism as opposed to expansionism you could theoretically build porteguese trading posts and churches in all the provinces you could manage giving port regions 400 gold every turn. This would cost 2500 and take 20 odd turns/ 5 years but it would pay itself off in just 6 years.Not an incredibly bad return on your money. Think of the amount of money west Japan could make with this kind of investment.

[RageFury]

Yeh pretty much as i can see becoming christian has no advantages whatsoever..i mean u get guns but u get peasent revolts and less income...converting to christianity...do u still get monks??

But just wait for the dutch and get em without converting...cheaper and more peaceful...

Sorry about capslock in previous post...didn't realise http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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[celtiberoijontychi]

I built the trading post, then a temple and my daimyo is now ... ATHEIST lol

It's not a joke!! I right-klicked in the "load game" menu and my status was atheist!!

The loyalty thing: after signing the treaty, u will experience some loyalty decrease wich may be more or less significant depending on what clan u play and what provinces u hace conquered.
Fresh conquered buddist provinces will rebel.
A christian mori daimyo will always have a hard time and spend a lot of money in shinobi , especially in mimasaka.

But usually u won't experience much trouble unless u build churches or train priests.

FOr ur peasants one thing is seeing u "converted" to christianity and a different one to actually see christians running around and preaching

There are some provinces wich have a tendency to rebell or to become christian.
Mimasaka and, generally, all mori provinces are very buddist.
Kozuke, instead, is very accesible to christianity.

Once u as a buddist (or atheist) daimyo conquer a christian province with some 70% of christians, their percentage will sink slowly ... i believe shinobi have some effect upon this.

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Long live Celtiberos
Glory and Honour to Clan Celtiberos

[Che]

¿Celtíberos? Oh man, I'd join that clan if I still had a copy of the shogun cd. I consider myself half celtíbero, not that I'm good with a sling or falcata.

Anyway, I've never been a fan of guns, so I haven't gone christian often, but it's not hard. Those priests are cheap enough to pop out like rabbits. So when you accept the message, nothing will happen yet, then you start a trading post and the gods start clashing. I recommend building churches at the same time you start your trading posts.