Loyalty in titles and build choices

[sharpshooter]

I've noticed a few odd things with provincial loyalty and the assigning of titles and build choices. I'm wondering if anyone has noticed similar.

Unassigned titles
Most unassigned provincial titles pick up a loyalty bonus over time. If I leave that newly conquered territory for 5 - 10 turns the chances are an extra shield appears.

This holds from the start of the game, and where I would assign titles on the first turn I now hold off if I've got a low loyalty high acumen general I want to ennoble. I've not noticed any other stat get affected, alas, and it doesn't seem to affect the offices of state. At the start of the game the loyalty gain might come after 3 - 4 turns.

Curiously, the loyalty can fluctuate within a turn - check the title at the start and it's at 2, and later the same turn it's dropped back to 1. I often find this with games I've saved - when I restart the loyalty for the unassigned title has dropped. It usually comes back the next turn, but not always.

Build choices and loyalty
Then there's the build choice. I've noticed that sometimes provincial loyalty drops instantly when I select a new building, especially in newly conquered places. Canceling the building doesn't restore this. It's almost as if I picked the wrong thing to build there - I've picked an SW when it should have been a Church.

It's made me wonder if certain provinces "like" certain build strategies. I've not noticed loyalty rise from selecting the "right" thing, though.

The other way round, the provincial loyalty boosts from buildings are sometimes far greater than stated. For example, as the Turks I'd held Moscow for 20 turns and it's strategic value was practically nil at this point so I was just building farmland. On autotax, the loyalty rose to 124 High, and plateaued. Eventually I put a mosque in, still with loyalty at 124 H. The turn the mosque was completed the loyalty soared to 189 Very High, a rise of 70 + points.

Provincial Loyalty, VnV's, and a General's stats
Some provinces seem to have preferences for Piety or Dread. For example, Prussia seems to respond best to a high Piety general. I've checked with candidates who have equal Dread to another with equal Piety - all things being equal (social status etc) the provincial loyalty rises most for Piety. Later the garrison general or title holder often picks up the VnV Eloquence, further boosting Piety. Most other provinces seem to respond more to Dread.

With Wallachia I give the title to the highest Dread stat I can find - I want the governor to be truly Dreadful.

The Acumen for the governors of Flanders, Venice, and curiously, Sardinia, seem to soar regardless of who I choose.

(A bit off topic, I've also noticed that the stats of the generals I give titles to seem to affect those of newly trained units. If I choose high Acumen low Loyalty the chances are new units will also have low Loyalty - particularly at the start of a campaign. If I only select for Loyalty and Acumen new units seem to lose Piety and Dread - and vice versa. The stats of untitled generals at the top of stacks also seem to input to the stats of new units. I'm suspecting some sort of sampling and averaging effects in the engine's algorithm for these.)

Does anyone know about this? Just more of those little quirks of the game?

[Heidrek]

Fascinating stuff. the leader of the province directly influences what sort of unit commanders are generated there? This could make it possible to create a "money making province" by placing a number of high accumen untis there under along with a high accument title holder present. You then farm you money grubbing new recruits out to other provinces that benefit from high accument governors.

Likewise, piety, loyalty and very importantly ....COMMAND. No other stat (except perhaps Accumen) has as big of an impact on the game as Command. Farming high command generals means every province they end up in gets harder to take.

One thing I have noted is that some Vice and Virtues seem to go hand in hand. I've seen True Believer and Loyal go hand in hand all the time, in fact it's rare for me to see someone who's got one and not the other. Most of the time they get them at the same time, like Good Runner and Not So Brave.

[sharpshooter]

@ Heidrek - well, I wish it was a simple as that, but it doesn't seem to be. The 2 factors I'm noticing for the stats of new units, apart from command, are:

- the stats of the mostly recently created governors
- the stats of untitled generals at the top of stacks

and

- whether I really needed that unit at all

With command, it seems to be about conquest. If I've taken several provinces in a row, maybe in a couple of regions, new elite units start coming out with command stars - but rarely good acumen.

I've tried to cultivate stats in my new units by this kind of selection, and I get good results with Piety but find Dread more difficult. The titled units, governors and high star generals, don't seem to affect it.

I'm now pretty sure that it's a mistake to only select for Acumen, and that has become less important to why/how I assign titles. Loyalty is less important too, if it's not a problem. This is most pronounced at the start of a campaign where I often find candidates with high Piety or Dread. I'm more inclined to title them now.

I'm also more careful about the stats of untitled units sitting at the top of stacks - at one time I only cared about loyalty here, now I'll take Acumen, Dread and Piety into account.

I'm sure other things go into equation.

For example, I've noticed that the fewer troops I build the more concentrated the stats effect. The AI also seems to have a view about the "appropriateness" of a newly trained unit - why train a Halberdier when a Slav Warrior will give better balance?

My feeling is that the game design "encourages" a minimalist approach that takes all the stats into consideration - and does this through VnV's and new unit stats, particularly for heirs. For example, I now identify the Drinker vice very highly with the overproduction of troops, particularly elite ones, and I may not train anything in the turn an heir is due to mature to avoid it.

Other times I feel like I'm trying to predict the future from looking at the entrails of a goat, and sometimes I'm sure I know nothing about this game at all.

Heh.

[Heidrek]

wow, this really is fascinating.....I wonder how much depth there is to this game that we've never even dreamed about. CA really put their thinking caps on for this game huh.