A Short Film

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I made this and posted it on YouTube a few minutes ago. Please tell me what you think. ~:)

NEW VERSION
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl2bwYT6Va0

Constructive criticism is welcome, so fire away. ~:)

[Husar]

Hmm, was pretty nice IMO, felt a bit like a documentary or something ARTE would send in between long documentaries. :2thumbsup:
Some of the text faded out a bit early though, requiring to read fast while that slow music plays feels a bit counterproductive but then Hollywood movies and real documentaries constantly do that. :dizzy2:

[Fisherking]

It was a bit tough to read quick enough to get the full impact...but the graphics were very moving. Slow it a bit and I think it would have more force.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Hmmm...yes, I realized that after I posted it. I'll try to re-upload. ~:)

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Alright, new version uploaded. ~:)

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Here we are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl2bwYT6Va0


Further thoughts?

[Tribesman]

Further thoughts?
Why include the picture of a USN dive-bomber ?

[Marshal Murat]

Thats my first question too. Why the dive-bomber?

2nd - Why do you hate freedom?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Thats my first question too. Why the dive-bomber??
I needed an image of a bomber in the action of attacking a target. You'd be surprised how hard a good one was to find.



2nd - Why do you hate freedom?
:dizzy2:

[Husar]

Why include the picture of a USN dive-bomber ?
Didn't the US desperately throw everything at us to prevent us from reaching the endsieg? ~;)

Seriously, well spotted, sometimes I wonder whether there is anything you don't know, Tribesman? :laugh4:

[Boyar Son]

Who will cry for them?

VAE VICTIS.

The reality of war.

[Husar]

The reality of war.
You can change reality. ~D

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Who will cry for them?

VAE VICTIS.

The reality of war.

Well, there is all the attention given to the Holocaust victims, the victims of the Gulag system, the Japanese Internment, and rightfully so. But outside of the historical community, few seem to draw upon the firestorms, or even regard them with interest.

Besides, why can't you just respect the dead? Would it still be the "reality of war" if it was your grandfather?


Seriously, well spotted, sometimes I wonder whether there is anything you don't know, Tribesman?

Yes indeed, though, once again, that picture specifically isn't being used to make a specific point on a make of aircraft used. The fact it is a bomber was enough for me to include it, as it was very early in the morning when I made this, and it was near the top of my Google searches, and an American plane. Please don't think I'm using the fact it was a dive bomber to make a point - it was just oversight. ~:)


You can change reality.

What do you mean by that? Everything I included in this film is real, and, besides the singular dive bomber picture, is all accurate to the bombings. All the images and quotes are perfectly real, and you should be able to find them with a quick Google.

[Boyar Son]

Well, there is all the attention given to the Holocaust victims, the victims of the Gulag system, the Japanese Internment, and rightfully so. But outside of the historical community, few seem to draw upon the firestorms, or even regard them with interest.

Besides, why can't you just respect the dead? Would it still be the "reality of war" if it was your grandfather?



no disrespect intended. but throughout history many genocide has happened and people only remember their own.. not others.

your grandfather was victim to this? my apologies then.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

no disrespect intended. but throughout history many genocide has happened and people only remember their own.. not others.

your grandfather was victim to this? my apologies then.
I do realize your point, though I also try to remember what happened to others. It has only been recently that I have actually delved into the Gulag system (which I did lose family to) and the bombing of German cities. This video was intended to showcase what happened on the ground, more than to vilify anyone.

No, he was not (he was imprisoned by the Soviets, and his wife was interrogated for a week in the infamous Lubyanka. Everyone in my family who died in WWII died at the hands of a Russian), though there were grandfathers who were, which was what I was trying to say. My humble apologies to reacting as I did to your statement - you do have an excellent point.


EDIT: I have found that some aircraft of similar type carrying singular bombs were used in the raids, though if they were strictly confined to being escorts or if they were actually armed with bombs I have not been able to establish.

[master of the puppets]

Very compelling pictures, tragic, but compelling. What inspired you exactly?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Very compelling pictures, tragic, but compelling.

Thanks very much, I did my best to convey it.



What inspired you exactly?


Well, being awake at two in the morning had something to do with it, in addition to a discussion with my mother over the phone. I've also been thinking about that in the past year, and some of my younger friends in school have talked to me about it, and it seems they don't hear much about it in their classrooms.

[master of the puppets]

Ah, so your german right?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Ah, so your german right?
Yes I am, as my signature attests. My mother's family is Bavarian and my father's is Prussian. I myself am from Nürnberg.

[master of the puppets]

:germany: :wall:
i always miss the obvious ****.

ok well, good video i must say, sorry for your ancestors. nothin i can do and i can't honestly raise my grandfather to apologize... dunno if he would anyway, well whatever, the sins of the father are not those of the son.

grandpa was 101 airborne

still, srry so many civilians had to die on every front. Next you can make a video for all those Japanese we napalmed... i doubt you are inclined to do a sob story about the russian dead so may i recommend instead one for the victims of the V-2.

*rereads post*
...damn man, humans really are ***holes.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

:germany: :wall:
i always miss the obvious ****.

ok well, good video i must say, sorry for your ancestors. nothin i can do and i can't honestly raise my grandfather to apologize... dunno if he would anyway, well whatever, the sins of the father are not those of the son.

grandpa was 101 airborne

still, srry so many civilians had to die on every front. Next you can make a video for all those Japanese we napalmed... i doubt you are inclined to do a sob story about the russian dead so may i recommend instead one for the victims of the V-2.

*rereads post*
...damn man, humans really are ***holes.

I wouldn't want your grandfather to apologize. If he was involved, he did what he was ordered to do. I am the one who argued in the Backroom that reparation payments for the Holocaust should be ended except in special cases, because it is now the grandson who is paying. I would never disrespect any of the aircrew who carried this out - they were scared as well, and some were shot down. They died as my people died, and deserve the same honours. I don't believe that I can judge them directly, as I was not there.

I didn't post this to vilify somebody - just to raise awareness of the dead, and try to show the fact that this happened to somebody, and pray it won't happen again. Thank you very much for the comments, I'm glad you're interested in the subject.

EDIT: I might make another movie in the future, either on the German or International troops who have died in modern foreign wars and peacekeeping operations, the Rape of Berlin, or perhaps the London Blitz. Does anyone have any suggestions in terms of technique or content?

[Vladimir]

Good job on the video. I'll watch it at home.

This thread begs an interesting question: Is it more honorable to wage war in the field against conscripts or against volunteers in factories? It would be nice if we could get robots to do all of the fighting, right before they take us over.

[Boyar Son]

:germany: :wall:
i always miss the obvious ****.

ok well, good video i must say, sorry for your ancestors. nothin i can do and i can't honestly raise my grandfather to apologize... dunno if he would anyway, well whatever, the sins of the father are not those of the son.

grandpa was 101 airborne

still, srry so many civilians had to die on every front. Next you can make a video for all those Japanese we napalmed... i doubt you are inclined to do a sob story about the russian dead so may i recommend instead one for the victims of the V-2.

*rereads post*
...damn man, humans really are ***holes.

apologize to the japs? their generation are some high on drugs war criminals, and your grand father apologizing? If he felt sorry for our ENEMIES he wouldnt have joined huh?

thats really somethin' apologize to the people who shot at your own family well isnt that a saint for ya?????????

choose a side.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

This thread begs an interesting question: Is it more honorable to wage war in the field against conscripts or against volunteers in factories? It would be nice if we could get robots to do all of the fighting, right before they take us over.

Well, many of the workers in factories were, in essence, conscripted, as it was the factory, war, or death (if you were Jewish/Roma); not a very good selection. My grandfather was given a simple choice - work or war. Since at least the conscripts are trained, I'd say it is more honourable to fight conscripts. However, I don't believe any war since the end of, perhaps (on a stretch), WWI, even had a remote chance of being anything close to honourable.


choose a side.

I'd argue that, this late after the war, there aren't any sides anymore. Most the countries involved have changed so radically from what they were before that I don't think sides are the issue.

[master of the puppets]

apologize to the japs? their generation are some high on drugs war criminals, and your grand father apologizing? If he felt sorry for our ENEMIES he wouldnt have joined huh?

thats really somethin' apologize to the people who shot at your own family well isnt that a saint for ya?????????

choose a side.

oh, no no no, you misunderstand me. I won't apologize to anyone, i did'nt do anything wrong. i'm just saying it is sad that civilians have to be killed in war... especially the german ones. The Japs not so much, they started that **** and we showed them why you don't **** with the USA. W00T.

P.S. read the rape of Nanking, and learn to despise the Japanese

[Boyar Son]

oh, no no no, you misunderstand me. I won't apologize to anyone, i did'nt do anything wrong. i'm just saying it is sad that civilians have to be killed in war... especially the german ones. The Japs not so much, they started that **** and we showed them why you don't **** with the USA. W00T.

P.S. read the rape of Nanking, and learn to despise the Japanese

Wow I acted like a jerk and you did NOT... sry for the outburst. I seriously thought u were gonna cuss me out.

again my apologies:yes: :bow:

Evil_Maniac From Mars- everyone has a side dont they?

[Husar]

May I inquire what the difference between japanese and german citizens was that made the japanese apparently more deserving of firebombing than the germans? :inquisitive:

It's not like germans didn't start a war and cheer at their great leader for doing so. :sweatdrop:

[Boyar Son]

The japs at that time worshiped the emperor like a deity.

Killing themseves in his name and dying for him. We Americans just felt obligated to help them do that.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Evil_Maniac From Mars- everyone has a side dont they?
Yes, everyone has an opinion of some sort, I suppose. :bow:

[Husar]

The japs at that time worshiped the emperor like a deity.

Killing themseves in his name and dying for him. We Americans just felt obligated to help them do that.
All of them? :inquisitive:

[Tribesman]

Yes indeed, though, once again, that picture specifically isn't being used to make a specific point on a make of aircraft used. The fact it is a bomber was enough for me to include it, as it was very early in the morning when I made this, and it was near the top of my Google searches, and an American plane. Please don't think I'm using the fact it was a dive bomber to make a point - it was just oversight.
Well Mars you did ask for constructive criticism .
It appears your work is about the allied strategic bombing raids , the carpet bombing of german towns and cities resulting in high civilian casualties and displacement .
A dive bomber just doesn't fit with the topic very well , and a navy dive bomber from the pacific theatre just really doesn't fit .

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Well Mars you did ask for constructive criticism .
It appears your work is about the allied strategic bombing raids , the carpet bombing of german towns and cities resulting in high civilian casualties and displacement .
A dive bomber just doesn't fit with the topic very well , and a navy dive bomber from the pacific theatre just really doesn't fit .
That I did, point accepted. I'm just explaining that the dive bomber is merely a coincidence, and you are quite right in pointing out that oversight I made. ~:)

[Veho Nex]

I have a family friend who was a little girl in poland during the allied saturation bombings she said her school was hit the day she stayed home sick... this movie sticks to the point I liked it and what we did was wrong and no one knows

[Boyar Son]

I have a family friend who was a little girl in poland during the allied saturation bombings she said her school was hit the day she stayed home sick... this movie sticks to the point I liked it and what we did was wrong and no one knows


Some girl far away in poland that you dont even KNOW or the hundreds of thousends of countrymen who's fighting for you against the NAZI's.

pick a side now.

[Boyar Son]

Some girl far away in poland that you dont even much KNOW or the hundreds of thousends of countrymen who's fighting for you against the NAZI's.

pick a side now.


Some girl far away in poland that you dont even much KNOW or the hundreds of thousends of countrymen who's fighting for you against the NAZI's.

pick a side now.


shoulda looked like that. oops.

[Veho Nex]

Some girl far away in poland that you dont even much KNOW or the hundreds of thousends of countrymen who's fighting for you against the NAZI's.

pick a side now.


shoulda looked like that. oops.

Niether can't i stay neutral

I know her quite well shes 80 something and she's told us (as in my brothers and sister and I) about how you could listen to the roar of the engines and if it was allied u had to run if it was German or Russian you need not worry Since the allies did allot of saturation bombing and and the other people did precision bombing

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I don't think it really matters what side you were on. This long after the war, we're all people in the same Western World. I'm a German speaking to an American, on a forum where Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, Argentinians, and more post. Most of us had ancestors who fought - I'm sure many have ancestors who died. I think WWII did more to unite than to drive apart, in the end, if you see what I mean.

[Vladimir]

Just saw it via the Backroom. Great looking video, despite the death and destruction. A little quick on the text but there's always the pause button. It still looks very, good, though.

[Hepcat]

A very nicely done short film. It's a point I always bring up with the people who think that the war was so black and white. I think often people forget the human side of the war and focus too much on the weapons and statistics and maps.

My Dutch grandfather was 12 in 1940 when Holland was occupied and it was from talking to him about the war that I learnt to respect both sides and have become interested more in the human aspect of the war than the maps, equipment and battle statistics.

There were atrocities committed on all sides, for example, the imprisonments and executions of suspected "5th columnists" by the British and French forces in France during the initial outbreak of the war could be called an atrocity, but after the war the myth of the "valiant but sadly out numbered and outgunned BEF" prevailed.

It is impossible to ever comprehend the complexity of the whole situation and nothing frustrates me more than the people who think they've got the whole war situation worked out and can explain it in 10 minutes.

One story which has always stuck with me is what my French teacher told me in Paris when I was on the School Europe Trip about her grandmother during the war. Her grandmother was Austrian but had married a Frenchman and lived in Paris when war broke out. The war terrified her because she had a brother who had been called up into the Wehrmacht and her 2 sons joined the French Army. After the fall of France her 2 sons were in POW camps and her brother came to visit her in Paris fresh off active service to ask her to return to Austria with him where life would be better. When she saw him at the door still wearing his Wehrmacht uniform she refused to let him in or even speak to him while he had his uniform on, she told him to get out and get changed before he returned. In the end she refused to return to Austria with him and remained in Paris for the rest of the war.

Sorry for rambling a bit but I always like telling people this story because it demonstrates the human aspect very well and makes one think that if that one person's life was that complex, what about all the others. Another good film for showing people that there were good people and bad people on all sides is the film The Pianist, which I highly recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it.


I think WWII did more to unite than to drive apart, in the end, if you see what I mean.

Yeah, I agree with you.
:2thumbsup:

[Boyar Son]

But did it unite the west with eastern europe after?

[Kralizec]

A moving video. Well done, though I still had trouble reading some of the text in the first half of the video.

I already knew about the Allied bombing campaigns against German cities, and it's a tragedy. I'm no WWII expert, but I doubt it actually had the intended effect and as such their deaths were senseless.

That said, if I were pulling the strings back then and I knew what they knew at the time, I'd probably have ordered the same thing.

[Hepcat]

A moving video. Well done, though I still had trouble reading some of the text in the first half of the video.

I already knew about the Allied bombing campaigns against German cities, and it's a tragedy. I'm no WWII expert, but I doubt it actually had the intended effect and as such their deaths were senseless.

That said, if I were pulling the strings back then and I knew what they knew at the time, I'd probably have ordered the same thing.

Yeah, you're right. They thought that by displacing enough people they would drain German resources and sap the will of the Germans to continue. But as the World At War series states: "The Germans, like the British, found they could take it."

Also according to the people interviewed it brought everyone together through their mutual suffering, regardless of their political views.

So I think they achieved the sapping of resources, but not really weakening of morale.

Though the bombing of Hamburg still stuns me. That was very much overkill and it's interesting that the colour footage of the bombing, which had been filmed by a German on the ground, was confiscated by the British immediately after the war to try and keep their name clean.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

But did it unite the west with eastern europe after?
Well, it did unite us in forming the Western World. The West was no longer competing, but cooperating. Most of the world was divided into two camps - the West and it's puppets and the Soviet Union and her puppets/supported states - instead of the many we used to have in Western Europe alone.