How to build a republic (not a kingdom)

[bigmilt16]

I know that (by default), you should build the best govt. available when you take over a new settlement; however, is there a different doctrine you should follow when you are developing a republican government (like the romans). Until the early imperial era, the various roman provinces outside of Italy, were very lightly controlled by the Senate and were almost independent nations, whom were loyal to Rome. They were ruled by roman governors though to ensure that the money got to the right people and right places.

With that, should a republican faction (when expanding outside of their homeland) build only type III and IV govt.'s. Esp. for the Romans, building type II govt.'s all over the place before the Marian Reforms seems to be poor military strategy because you can not build a full regional army like you could with a type III or IV govt. I know that client rulers can be extremely expensive in low-producing colonies, but the provinces were VERY autonomous from Roman hands.

Any advice!? Thanks

[beatoangelico]

Until the early imperial era, the various roman provinces outside of Italy, were very lightly controlled by the Senate and were almost independent nations, whom were loyal to Rome. They were ruled by roman governors though to ensure that the money got to the right people and right places.

the empire didn't change it much, really. The provinces always remained loosely controlled by the central government and the local elites always had a great degree of power over their home territories.

[bigmilt16]

So should I really try to build as many type three govt.'s as possible throughout the entire game?

[marodeur]

:study: At least Sicily and the area of Tolosa became provinces quite early. Sicily was - directly after the roman conquest - the first province, and the area of Tolosa is still called Provence, coming from the word provincia. The same thing could be said about the illyrian territories and about north africa (Qart Hadast and Zeugitana), which became provinces (level II areas) after the third punic war. I don't know for sure, but I think that the romans began founding veteran colonies (only possible under level II conditions) in spain at about 200 b.c., directly after conquering the area from the carthagians. The Cyrenaica, Pergamon and Bithynia all became roman property by inheritance between 133and 100 b.c.. But for example the Greek citystates only became roman provinces quite late. So I guess you could for roleplaying purposes in many cases start with a level IV (or lvl III) government, build everything possible and then change to level III (or II) and so on. But you should restrain yourself not to use local troops anymore after changing to level II.
At least for those who speak a little bit of german (and probably for others, too) this homepage could be interseting, cause it gives you an overview about the history of roman provinces.

http://www.antikefan.de/kulturen/rom/provinzen.html#uebersicht

I try to orientate myself at these dates / those out of history books, when playing the romans: in my actual campaign I have decided that I will not conquer certain areas (for example Pontos) before the marian reforms and I try to use the appropriate Level of governance. By doing this, I had to restrict myself a lot, but I hope to get a very fascinating Marian-Legion-campaign. But it takes a while... .

[bigmilt16]

great stuff. Appreciate it, mate!

So once the type II government is built (full blown province), the local troop usage should ideally stop. What if the Marian Reforms have not occurred.

also, should I use FM's liberally all throughout the empire, or just in the most important cities?

[The General]

also, should I use FM's liberally all throughout the empire, or just in the most important cities?
Perhaps there where it makes sense?

Like rebellious cities, most important trade cities, some border fortress cities (the ones with the forces intended to defend that border, for example), and so forth?

Consuls, proconsuls, senators et cetera were usually send outside Rome for particular reason (if given governance over some settlement), rather than just sent all around the empire with no particular reason. Otherwise they stayed at Rome (or their latifundae on their time off etc) because that's where they lived, they worked, and where everything important was happening, from the birth of their children to the high-level political intrigue, and everything in between.





... I think. Can't claim I'd be an expert on Roman policies on the senatorial duties and such.

[CirdanDharix]

and the area of Tolosa is still called Provence, coming from the word provincia.
Actually, that's the area of Massalia (modern Marseilles).

[beatoangelico]

So should I really try to build as many type three govt.'s as possible throughout the entire game?

type III gov is something like a military controlled region without strong ties between the local elite and the Roman world (for example, the germanic area in Augustus time); type II gov is an area where latin is becoming a spoken language as "lingua franca", the elite is more alligned with roman values and the complex process of "romanization" is taking place. In fact roman provinces were probably more closely controlled by Rome (or better, by a fully romanized local elite of landowners) than most of the other "empires" of antiquity, so within the limitations of the engine I think that type 2 gov are fine.

[The General]

type III gov is something like a military controlled region without strong ties between the local elite and the Roman world (for example, the germanic area in Augustus time); type II gov is an area where latin is becoming a spoken language as "lingua franca", the elite is more alligned with roman values and the complex process of "romanization" is taking place. In fact roman provinces were probably more closely controlled by Rome (or better, by a fully romanized local elite of landowners) than most of the other "empires" of antiquity, so within the limitations of the engine I think that type 2 gov are fine.
*Agrees*

[Centurion Crastinus]

Whenever I build a type 2 goverment, I stock it with the few types of local troops that I am allowed to recruit. Is that a realistic approach or no. I am currently in the Roman Polybian era in 220 B.C. and I control Greece, Illyria Italy south of the Alps and I am expanding towards Spain.

[Decimus Attius Arbiter]

I'd place type threes or 4s until the Polybian Reforms, then switch them to 2s to build legionnaires. Whenever unrest isn't too bad, I place 4s for better trade.

[Tarkus]

Bigmilt16 -- Have you checked out konny's Roman Unit Guide?

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93896

Basically, he has combined the stats on Roman and non-factional unit availability in each province with their corresponding MIC requirements and has produced a map of recommended govt. types in each province. I think you'll find it really helpful in planning your expansion...I know I do!

Good luck...

[bigmilt16]

what an excellent link. You guys are awesome!

I really do agree that FM's in the Romani should stay in Rome unless needed. I didn't know if I was the only guy who believed so. My problem was that I wanted to play Rome as if it were Pontus or some other Kingdom

[Kολοσσός]

I know that (by default), you should build the best govt. available when you take over a new settlement; however, is there a different doctrine you should follow when you are developing a republican government (like the romans). Until the early imperial era, the various roman provinces outside of Italy, were very lightly controlled by the Senate and were almost independent nations, whom were loyal to Rome. They were ruled by roman governors though to ensure that the money got to the right people and right places.

With that, should a republican faction (when expanding outside of their homeland) build only type III and IV govt.'s. Esp. for the Romans, building type II govt.'s all over the place before the Marian Reforms seems to be poor military strategy because you can not build a full regional army like you could with a type III or IV govt. I know that client rulers can be extremely expensive in low-producing colonies, but the provinces were VERY autonomous from Roman hands.

Any advice!? Thanks

I think you're making things too complicated. In a republic you have a national leader of great powers (the executive) and also have a senate or congress made up of old fools. In the issues of the greatest import such as declaring wars the leader and his retinue make the decisions giving the senate little or no opportunity to interfere (the senate may act like it matters but in the end it doesn't). Also, you have some kind of a judiciary branch. USA is an example of a republic.

That's all there is to the concept of a republic. The other concepts you're talking about with regards to how your republican system affects the distant provinces is beyond the scope of this game.

[marodeur]

great stuff. Appreciate it, mate!

So once the type II government is built (full blown province), the local troop usage should ideally stop. What if the Marian Reforms have not occurred.

also, should I use FM's liberally all throughout the empire, or just in the most important cities?

If I have a Level II government but can't recruit marian troops, I will still use a few locals but normally I will send in roman troops from italy. I do not wonder why the roman expansion came to it's limits with this system... . Marian legions make everything much easier.

[marodeur]

Actually, that's the area of Massalia (modern Marseilles).

:oops: