Praparing for the next crusade

[FactionHeir]

Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071219/ap_on_re_us/military_religion_lawsuit)


Religious freedom in military questioned
By JOHN MILBURN, Associated Press Writer
Tue Dec 18, 8:36 PM ET

A foundation that has sued the military alleging widespread violations of religious freedom said Tuesday that it has evidence showing that soldiers are pressured to adopt fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

The photos and videos of religious materials and activities are part of a lawsuit filed by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and Army Spc. Jeremy Hall, an atheist, against Maj. Freddy J. Welborn and Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

The material was gathered from Fort Riley in Kansas, the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colo., and Fort Jackson, S.C.

Examples at Fort Riley, where Hall is stationed, included a display outside his military police battalion's office with a quote from conservative writer Ann Coulter saying, "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

Another photo from Fort Riley shows the book "A Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" for sale at the post exchange.

"These astonishing and saddening evidence which our foundation is making public today only further buttress our lawsuit," said Mike Weinstein, an attorney in Albuquerque, N.M., and president of the foundation, who graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1977.

Fort Riley spokesman Maj. Nathan Bond said the matter was being referred to post commanders for investigation. He said it is the Army's policy to accommodate all religious beliefs to the extent that they don't conflict with military missions.

"We do take this seriously," he said. If they are true, he added, they "do not seem in line with the Army values of respect."

The lawsuit filed in federal court in Kansas City, Kan., in September alleges that Welborn threatened to file military charges against Hall and to block his re-enlistment for trying to hold a meeting of atheists and non-Christians in Iraq.

Hall is with the 97th Military Police Battalion out of Fort Riley. He was serving his second tour in Iraq and has since returned to the U.S.

Weinstein said materials for a Bible studies course from Military Ministry, part of Campus Crusade for Christ International, teach soldiers that the U.S. military and government are instruments to spread the word of God. The material was found at Fort Jackson, S.C., he said.

A spokeswoman for Campus Crusade for Christ said ministry officials hadn't had a chance to review the evidence and declined to comment.

The lawsuit also alleges that Gates permits a military culture in which officers are encouraged to pressure soldiers to adopt and espouse fundamentalist Christian beliefs, and allows a culture that sanctions activities by Christian organizations.

It also says the military permits proselytizing by soldiers, tolerates anti-Semitism and the placing of religious symbols on military equipment, and allows the use of military e-mail accounts to send religious rhetoric.

The Pentagon has said that the military values and respects religious freedoms but that accommodating religious practices should not interfere with unit cohesion, readiness, standards or discipline.

Weinstein has previously sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on its students at the academy. A federal judge threw out that lawsuit in 2006.


Several things struck me when reading this:



Examples at Fort Riley [...] included a display outside his military police battalion's office with a quote from conservative writer Ann Coulter saying, "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

Another photo from Fort Riley shows the book "A Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" for sale at the post exchange.



The lawsuit [...] alleges that Welborn threatened to file military charges against Hall and to block his re-enlistment for trying to hold a meeting of atheists and non-Christians in Iraq.



[...] materials for a Bible studies course from Military Ministry, part of Campus Crusade for Christ International, teach soldiers that the U.S. military and government are instruments to spread the word of God.



[...] Gates permits a military culture in which officers are encouraged to pressure soldiers to adopt and espouse fundamentalist Christian beliefs, and allows a culture that sanctions activities by Christian organizations.

[...] military permits proselytizing by soldiers, tolerates anti-Semitism and the placing of religious symbols on military equipment, and allows the use of military e-mail accounts to send religious rhetoric.


Might be a bit early to say too much about this, but it certainly seems disturbing, when many young (and some possibly unstable) people are recruited into the military are exposed and subtly forced to take a fundamentalist view at things and then sent off to combat the muslims in the middle east.

[drone]

The administration has been hiring less than competent staff with their only qualification being degrees from evangelical colleges, so this does not really surprise me. It is bound to trickle down.

The thing to watch for is the backlash. I'd say in 10 years, Christianity in this country is going to lose a lot of clout. We may even see something like the 60's/70's again. Hopefully, without the fashion. :fainting:

[KrooK]

If some muslim countries keep behaving like they are doing now, crusade might be called. I'm not talking about religious fanatics but big number of rich, angry countries, whom won't be afraid of sending all their armies to crush muslims.

[Vladimir]

:laugh4:

Read our money!

[Samurai Waki]

I wonder who the next Renaud De Chatillion will be? :inquisitive:

[Tribesman]

If some muslim countries keep behaving like they are doing now, crusade might be called. I'm not talking about religious fanatics but big number of rich, angry countries, whom won't be afraid of sending all their armies to crush muslims.

Meanwhile on planet earth it has been it has been revealed that it is december this month .

[master of the puppets]

https://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o292/IPKBAAL/Bushthechickenhearted.jpg

srry if it's not perfect, i did it on paint cuz i don't have photoshop on this comp but wateva.~:cheers:

[Lemur]

Don't you idjits know that troops trained in a city which also has a high-level temple gain a morale bonus? Sheesh. Next you'll be yelling at Bush not to build a blacksmith ...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Two things:

1. Disprespect of others outside the unit and idiotic displays are intregal to any military.

2. Use of military resources to spread a religion is wrong.

Having said that what's wrong with a soldier painting a Chi-Rho or a crucifix on his M-16, if it makes him feel safer I don't see the harm. If he wants to scream "die you filthy heathans" whilst fighting the Taliban I think it's appropriate in a war-zone, he could yell far worse.

Regardless of my own personal brand of faith I think it's important to acknowledge that different people see Christianity in different ways, so long as it's not toally off-whack I'll put up with it.

Oh, and calling a Crusade would be officially "off-whack".

[Pannonian]

Don't you idjits know that troops trained in a city which also has a high-level temple gain a morale bonus? Sheesh. Next you'll be yelling at Bush not to build a blacksmith ...
Can we send Bush in a boat to the coast of Somalia, in the hope that he'll get sunk? I'm wondering what traits and ancillaries he has.

[FactionHeir]

Having said that what's wrong with a soldier painting a Chi-Rho or a crucifix on his M-16, if it makes him feel safer I don't see the harm. If he wants to scream "die you filthy heathans" whilst fighting the Taliban I think it's appropriate in a war-zone, he could yell far worse.

Regardless of my own personal brand of faith I think it's important to acknowledge that different people see Christianity in different ways, so long as it's not toally off-whack I'll put up with it.

Oh, and calling a Crusade would be officially "off-whack".

I think I can generally agree with that. Having some religious symbol on your personal weapon isn't too over the top (although some politically corrects may disagree). What is disturbing from the article, is that soldiers are more or less forced to take up Christianity and are not discouraged from insulting members of other religions even at home base. Furthermore, having that quote about invasion, killing their leaders and then converting everyone to Christianity out on display in a base suggests that this is the way people are supposed to act, which of course is morally wrong in my opinion.

Lastly, and most importantly from the article, "teach soldiers that the U.S. military and government are instruments to spread the word of God." is just calling to be shot down by ctitics.

[AntiochusIII]

Anything Ann Coulter in our military bases is downright criminal period. :book: I refuse to call her "conservative" because I really really don't want to insult our org conservative patrons here.

[Major Robert Dump]

Number of time I made a tacky anti-Islam joke at BCT: 8

Number of times a drill sergeant took me aside later and told me to be careful what I said:

Muslim services are offered just like all the others. LeonardWood even had Wiccan every third week. Although, when finding out one Wiccan soldier was upset that he wasn't getting a service that Sunday, a drill sergeant walked over to the grass, picked up a handful of dirt and leaves, walked back to the recruit, threw it in his face and said "Theres your service. Amen."

We happen to be engaged in a war where the enemy is, for the most part, Muslim. Jokes will be made. Deal with it.

At Sam Houston, meanwhile, Muslim services are also offered each week, and there are a few practitioners in our company of 500, and a few more who go because they are genuinely interested in learning about the religion, not to practice it per se, but because were are at war with a people who are, ya know, Muslim and they want to be educated.

[Boyar Son]

I wonder who the next Renaud De Chatillion will be? :inquisitive:

That will be ME.


Except for what happens to him at the end of his life and all his military blunders.

[Husar]

That will be ME.


Except for what happens to him at the end of his life and all his military blunders.
Yes, you're my hero. :inquisitive:

[Major Robert Dump]

erm i made a mistake up in my last post, the blank spot next to my reprimand sentence is supposed to read "8". In other words, i always got a lecture after one of my religion cracks, be they against mormons or muslims or baptists.

[Vladimir]

erm i made a mistake up in my last post, the blank spot next to my reprimand sentence is supposed to read "8". In other words, i always got a lecture after one of my religion cracks, be they against mormons or muslims or baptists.

Oh well. I guess the lesson is respect your enemy.

[IrishArmenian]

Good to hear that this isn't a huge deal--thank you Major. I was quite worried. Still, it does raise many questions.
What do they mean by Christian? Do they actually mean Christian or are they using the fundamentalist, Protestants only thing?
I'm going to exploit the situation, pretend like I want to appease the westerners and make a sizeable kingdom for myself, just like my people did ages ago. Yay!

[Major Robert Dump]

Gospel, wiccan, protestant, muslim, jewish, catholic, buhddist, new life, these services are all offered at leonard wood. They also offer supplementary bible/koran study groups on other days of the week, as well as making exceptions for muslims activities for Ramadan and for Jews, like right now at Sam Houston theres a kid walking around with a little camoflouge yamaka on his head. Now I will admit, he gets picked on, not because hes a jew, but because he sits down at tables during chow and starts complaining about christians, christmas music and jesus being a fruad, and nothing happens by way of reprimands. of course, if i tossed a penny across the floor and told him to fetch, i'd probably get a rank reduction.

[FactionHeir]

In that case it seems that only some bases are affected, and it might not be a nationwide issue.

[Crazed Rabbit]

A point about the Ann Coulter quote:

Examples at Fort Riley, where Hall is stationed, included a display outside his military police battalion's office with a quote from conservative writer Ann Coulter saying, "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

I'm pretty sure it's a joke, in the same manner of 'Earth First; We'll Log the Other Planets Later'. I very much doubt it was posted as a serious example o what to do.


Another photo from Fort Riley shows the book "A Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" for sale at the post exchange.

Oh noes! signs of a free society! We'd do best to squash it.

I think this tells us the basics of what we need to know about this lawsuit:


Weinstein has previously sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on its students at the academy. A federal judge threw out that lawsuit in 2006.


CR

[Lemur]

Yes, I'm sure Ann Coulter is just being an entertainer. Problem is, not everyone in her audience is guaranteed to be in on the joke. Moreover, the joke itself is pretty darn nasty. Examples (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ann_Coulter#Islam):


We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

Point one and point two by the end of the week had become official government policy. As for converting them to Christianity, I think it might be a good idea to get them on some sort of hobby other than slaughtering infidels. I mean perhaps that's the Peace Corps, perhaps it's working for Planned Parenthood, but I've never seen the transforming effect of anything like that Christianity.

Bumper sticker idea for liberals: News magazines don't kill people, Muslims do.

One [cartoon] showed Muhammad turning away suicide bombers from the gates of heaven, saying "Stop, stop — we ran out of virgins!" — which I believe was a commentary on Muslims' predilection for violence. Another was a cartoon of Muhammad with horns, which I believe was a commentary on Muslims' predilection for violence. The third showed Muhammad with a turban in the shape of a bomb, which I believe was an expression of post-industrial ennui in a secular — oops, no, wait: It was more of a commentary on Muslims' predilection for violence ... Muslims are the only people who make feminists seem laid-back.

I think our motto should be, post-9-11, 'raghead talks tough, raghead faces consequences.'

Perhaps we could put aside our national, ongoing, post-9/11 Muslim butt-kissing contest and get on with the business at hand: Bombing Syria back to the stone age and then permanently disarming Iran.

-edit-

Missed a couple of good ones:


I think the government should be spying on all Arabs, engaging in torture as a televised spectator sport, dropping daisy cutters wantonly throughout the Middle East and sending liberals to Guantanamo.

Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

Not a good idea to slight the IRA, Basque separatists and white supremacists all in once sentence ...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm confused, is she actually a liberal?

[FactionHeir]

I'm confused, is she actually a liberal?

She seems quite liberal with her use of words, but she actually is considered conservative according to her wiki page.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Yeah, but it seems like she's a cardboard-cutout conservative, she can't be for real.

Aside from what seems like a genuinly nutty brand of Christianity she doesn't seem that serious.

[HoreTore]

Not a good idea to slight the IRA, Basque separatists and white supremacists all in once sentence ...

HEY!!

Don't you forget the Red Brigades again!

[FactionHeir]

That then of course makes you wonder why someone would want to have a "genuinely nutty christian"'s quotes all over the base.

[Lemur]

Yeah, but it seems like she's a cardboard-cutout conservative, she can't be for real.
The joke is a little more complicated than that. She's not entertaining liberals with a parody of reactionary views; she's entertaining conservatives. That's her audience. Make of that what you will.

Don't you forget the Red Brigades again!
Pipe bombs at dawn will satisfy honor, I trust?

[HoreTore]

Pipe bombs at dawn will satisfy honor, I trust?

Perhaps, if there are some gates involved somehow.

[Vladimir]

She provides raw, red meat for conservatives. Personally I think she has a bit of the ugly duckling syndrome and just likes the attention.

[Ice]

Anything Ann Coulter in our military bases is downright criminal period. :book: I refuse to call her "conservative" because I really really don't want to insult our org conservative patrons here.

Thanks.

:yes:

[Tribesman]

A similar theme as the OP but a different anglehttp://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/870752.html

[FactionHeir]

A friend of mine posted a link to new developments regarding this story elsewhere.
Here it is:
Fundamentalist Christianization of U.S. Military more widespread than previously thought (http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107J.shtml)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well that's not what I would call Good News. I'd say it was bad, bad, bad. You don't get a sincere belief in anything from bullying and indoctrination.

[Shahed]

It's terrible of course.

However from an empire building standpoint a strong ideological soldier is best. He will do the unthinkable an not hesitate, he will not ask questions.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It's terrible of course.

However from an empire building standpoint a strong ideological soldier is best. He will do the unthinkable an not hesitate, he will not ask questions.

Interesting point, a strong ideological Christian soldier is a bit of a nightmare really. He won't rape, murder, be a sniper, strike first etc.

Hmm, odd that they're pushing Christianity rather than, say, worship of Odin.

[FactionHeir]

I bet those are the parts of the bible that are omitted in the teaching :laugh4:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The best way to lie is to tell the truth but leave out the important bits. According to the beliefs of those Evangelicals leaving bits out imperils the souls of those young men.

Oh dear, it doesn't look good.

[Boyar Son]

I bet those are the parts of the bible that are omitted in the teaching :laugh4:

how much $10? $20? $100?

[Vladimir]

Oh dear, it doesn't look good.

Repent sinner and we will show mercy. :army:

[Odin]

Hmm, odd that they're pushing Christianity rather than, say, worship of Odin.

You might be surprised what your exposed to in the U.S. military, there are plenty of ideologs, not that I would know (http://www.odinsvolk.ca/index.html) :thumbsup: