KotR Out of character thread XVIII [Archive] - Page 3

Ituralde

01-07-2008, 20:45

I just finished reading through the Stories thread and I must say it's quite an extraordinary collection there. It's wonderful how we have created all these different and complex stories, building up heroes and villains while spinning an epic tale. Coming back after this long and seeing what has been done really gives you a feeling of the scope of the whole thing.

I'll probably never manage to catch up with everything that happened, but from the glimpses I have caught I really enjoy it. Thanks again to econ21 and TinCow for playing out the rest of my Chancellorship. I really like what you have done with Theodora. It's just amazing how much you can put into a single political marriage.

Overknights timeline was extremely helpful in getting a rough grasp of what happened and together with the stories it gives a good picture. It's also useful to jump to the interesting Diet Sessions. The one downside is though, that for the uninitiated the titles in your history don't say much about the content. I guess this is planned as to not spoil the content, but just for catching up a clearer summary of what happened without reading the whole text would probably be better. But maybe someone else should do that, I'm grateful enough that you spend all the effort to compile the history!

And to end this with a little nitpicking, I noticed that econ21 jumped back a century in two of his stories.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1732137&postcount=214
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1751149&postcount=229

Well, on to the Diet posts! :2thumbsup:

AussieGiant

01-07-2008, 22:09

I just checked the relevant rule and it is this:

OOC CA 14.2: At the start of each turn, the Chancellor will post an annual report on the last turn, including a save game. The report will list battles that could be fought this turn. Players will have 24 hours to fight these battles or suggest moves for their characters. This system will be trialled for 5 turns and then either abandoned or continued based on majority opinion.

So - aside from those ending in battles - basically players suggest moves - it is up to the Chancellor whether to make them.

My inclination would be to make suggested moves where possible even if the Chancellor disagrees IC, simulating the confusion of war, wilful generals etc. (It will also make the game more fun.) But if a player is suggesting something that is very foolish - e.g. because they have not looked at the save - then I would not feel obliged to follow their suggestion.

Hi Econ,

I guess I'm not exactly following that format.

Do you want me to change or can I continue on with how I've been presenting the situation?

econ21

01-07-2008, 22:11

And to end this with a little nitpicking, I noticed that econ21 jumped back a century in two of his stories.

:oops: Thanks. Fixed it now, hopefully.

econ21

01-07-2008, 22:17

I guess I'm not exactly following that format.

Do you want me to change or can I continue on with how I've been presenting the situation?

What are you doing that is different? You seem OOC to have given people a fair degree of autonomy in directing their avatars own movement, which is what the CA was trying to encourage post-cataclysm. But you are the first Chancellor operating under this procedure, so we can see what works best.

AussieGiant

01-07-2008, 22:24

What are you doing that is different? You seem OOC to have given people a fair degree of autonomy in directing their avatars own movement, which is what the CA was trying to encourage post-cataclysm. But you are the first Chancellor operating under this procedure, so we can see what works best.

I suppose I'm being very literal in that the presentation of the information is not in the exact format of the Charter. Clearly this is not a problem for anyone.

I've taken a look at the save and will post up in the Order thread my recommended attacks and movements for everyone.

FactionHeir

01-07-2008, 22:26

I suppose I'm being very literal in that the presentation of the information is not in the exact format of the Charter. Clearly this is not a problem for anyone.

I demand an emergency session. Now. :laugh4:

Cecil XIX

01-07-2008, 22:35

AussieGiant

01-07-2008, 22:44

LOL!!

:sweatdrop:

Good luck boy's I'm feeling in real life a little crap so I'm off to bed.

Send me your moves or take the save to pound some bad guy's. The plan is tomorrow night for me to make everyone's non combat moves, do the Chancellor bit and press end turn for our defensive season.

That's the plan anyway...there are a lot of fights so it could take a few days this turn.

Zim

01-08-2008, 00:02

To Ramses from the Orders thread.

Hey, it's worth a try. :beam: Andreas strikes me as pretty sngle-minded about his goal to bring Outremer back to it's former size. AussieGiant is encouraged to ignore his requests for more troops. I have plenty of men to hold the Iron Bridge. :yes:

Ramses II CP

01-08-2008, 00:10

Heh, well, Fritz is one of the few who isn't sick, and naturally considers himself a force for wisdom and restraint unparalleled in the Reich. :laugh4:

As far as in character, it had to be pretty rare to lead an offensive campaign during a major plague, and, of course, troops for anyone else in this severely repressed economy means fewer for his own ends.

:egypt:

Cecil XIX

01-08-2008, 00:26

Hmm. I never noticed the plague causing a noticable difference when I played MIITW.

Zim

01-08-2008, 00:44

Plague reduces trade to zero in settlements it hits. In an SP game you're usually pretty big by the time it happens, so it might not matter. We have so many players and armies it might be a bit worse, but even still I think we're making a lot of money. :yes:

Another Swabian is interested in going to Outremer. If Hugo and Ludwig both get to go I think I will propose an edict next Diet to rename Outremer "New Swabia". :beam:

FactionHeir

01-08-2008, 00:46

We can name the new world New Swabia :yes:

Btw, the only safe settlements I can name off the top of my head are Edinburgh and Nuremburg. I think there are 2 more that are unaffected but I forgot them.

deguerra

01-08-2008, 00:51

Just goes to show us Swabians are god-fearing people. "New Swabia" does sound nice :P

It was an IC decision mainly. Ludwig is rediculously pious and it seemed right given the recent events and the plague. OOC it gives me something to do once France is beaten.

Zim

01-08-2008, 00:52

Ok, the New World will be New Swabia, and Outremer can be Swabistan.

What do you guys think? :beam:

FactionHeir

01-08-2008, 00:54

And what about the Holy Swabian Empire?
Hümmel would be proud.

deguerra

01-08-2008, 00:57

Only if we rename Jerusalem to Islamaswab. Ok this is getting too silly :beam:

too silly. Hah! :clown:

Cecil XIX

01-08-2008, 01:41

Btw, the only safe settlements I can name off the top of my head are Edinburgh and Nuremburg. I think there are 2 more that are unaffected but I forgot them.

Hey now, don't forget Prague. :2thumbsup: Bologne's also unaffected, which makes me think that sieges prevent cities from catching the plague.

deguerra

01-08-2008, 01:48

then Bruges ought to be safe. :2thumbsup:

Ramses II CP

01-08-2008, 01:59

Arhus is clean for the moment, as is Hamburg. Hamburg will almost certainly get it next year, however, and probably Arhus at the same time or the next year.

:egypt:

Stuperman

01-08-2008, 04:42

any tips for my battle?

how should I use cannons, I have no experience with them.

Ramses II CP

01-08-2008, 04:52

At range, attempt to snipe their general. As they get closer fire into their infantry to shake their morale. After they have engaged try to fire across a flank or over their heads to get them to flee. Don't use explosive shot.

Gunpowder = very strong morale tool against the AI.

:egypt:

deguerra

01-08-2008, 04:54

I have little experience with cannons too. Why no explosive shot Ramses, I thought that did more moral damage? Whats good for protecting the cannons?

Ramses II CP

01-08-2008, 05:10

Explosive shot is extremely inaccurate, almost to the point of futility. At close range it's likely to damage your own troops, at long range it's likely to damage nothing.

I love stakes to defend artillery of all kinds, but absent stakes just put them close between two formations of spearmen (Assuming you're outnumbered). When the enemy charges, hit withdraw rather than try to reposition them; they'll abandon their cannons and back up, at which point you can halt the withdrawal if you want to use them again.

If you aren't outnumbered move them to a flank after the main line engages and fire across the enemy's formation. They'll rout quickly.

:egypt:

OverKnight

01-08-2008, 05:46

any tips for my battle?

how should I use cannons, I have no experience with them.

When engaging at long range, I like to aim for the enemy's center of mass. I.E. Pick a unit in the center of their army, particularly a valuable one, and have the cannon fire on that. Even the shot misses them, since you're aiming in the middle, a "miss" might hit other units.

Be careful about wher you position your cannon, too steep an incline and they get buggy and don't fire. This happened in my battle on the mountainside a few years back. Hills are nice though, because cannon can then be in the back row and fire over units in front.

Explosive shot is a waste of time. It's too inaccurate.

If the enemy allows it, use all your shot before sending in your other troops. They will be softened up and get morale penalties from the gunpowder and will break more easily.

OverKnight

01-08-2008, 06:59

Overknights timeline was extremely helpful in getting a rough grasp of what happened and together with the stories it gives a good picture. It's also useful to jump to the interesting Diet Sessions. The one downside is though, that for the uninitiated the titles in your history don't say much about the content. I guess this is planned as to not spoil the content, but just for catching up a clearer summary of what happened without reading the whole text would probably be better. But maybe someone else should do that, I'm grateful enough that you spend all the effort to compile the history!

Thanks for the input. I've been developing the timeline on the fly. When I started, it was very bare bones. I let the links do the talking. Gradually I've added more detail, summaries of the Chancellor's reports for example, for the busy reader and to try to provide a historical flow to events. Sometimes however I just link to things, particularly stories, with no summary. As Ituralde guessed, I don't want to spoil anyone, and to be honest, sometimes I don't know where the stories are going and I wouldn't be able to provide an effective summary. The Danish Incident, and the fall out from that involving multiple authors and divergent plot lines, still gives me headaches. :laugh4:

When I have down time at work, I often go through the history to spruce it up, and I'll keep Ituralde's comments in mind when I do so. As it says at the top, its a work in progress. :laugh4:

Edit: A question for the newer players. Has the History helped in introducing you to KotR? As a newcomer, taking it in as a whole, do you have any suggestions, areas that need work?

deguerra

01-08-2008, 07:13

definetely helped. its not all clear to me, in fact far from it, but its definetely a step in the right direction. you'd probably need to write a book, and wait until you have the benefit of hindsight before you can make it truly clear.

Ituralde

01-08-2008, 10:57

When I have down time at work, I often go through the history to spruce it up, and I'll keep Ituralde's comments in mind when I do so. As it says at the top, its a work in progress. :laugh4:

And a very good one at that. Together with TinCows library you have every information at a glance.
Man, reading through the Diet makes me wish I had a little more time to develop Siegfrieds story with the Diet. The animosity towards him was pretty fierce and I guess my absence didn't help either. Next time I plan another stunt like that I'll make sure I'll have the time to pull it through right. Still econ21 did a good job, especially having to defend Siegfried and his actions in front of the Diet. Sure didn't look easy. I'm glad it got through!
I want to apologize to all though that were inconvenienced by the chain of events, especially OOC, should I try something like that again, being on the forum should help smooth out most bumps. Gifting Cagliary probably wasn't the smartest of moves. :beam:
Seems like Siegfried has to live with his legacy of destroying the Reich though. Not as ambivalent as I had in mind, but at least he's known for something, right? :clown:

But enough of digging up those old stories, gonna read the Cataclysm now, sounds interessting... :book:

Edit: deguerra, I'm afraid even for most participants not all is clear... :beam:

OverKnight

01-08-2008, 11:47

Ituralde, it would have been nice if you'd been around to flesh out Siegfried's side of things. But if you kept playing, I doubt events would have gotten so. . .interesting. Siegfried did things and had things done to him as an NPC that a player wouldn't dare have happen. It worked out well that way. Kaiser Siegfried certainly has a giant Legacy, even if he is not the most beloved Kaiser ever. Technically he didn't destroy the Reich, just set in motion a chain of events that horrifically damaged it. :laugh4:

OOC I always felt sorry for Elberhard, talk about being between a rock and a hard place. IC, well Matt vented his spleen a few times. :sweatdrop:

AussieGiant

01-08-2008, 12:26

So I've received a bundle of movement requests and all of them are in the Orders thread...are none of you going to attack anything this season? :balloon2:

Erlach is certainly attacking, but what about the rest of you.

TC, I understand your request abotu Milan perfectly and especially after the screw up I made last time around the city when you where on the wrong side of the assault to assist easily.

As for all the recruiting requests...I wish we had 35000 florins and 10 castles!! :beam:

OverKnight

01-08-2008, 12:55

Once I get home from work, I'm going to sally against the Greeks at Adana, if that will satisfy your bloodlust. :laugh4:

TinCow

01-08-2008, 13:16

Seems like Siegfried has to live with his legacy of destroying the Reich though.

Nope, I took care of that. http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/224_animated_ninja_disappearing.gif

gibsonsg91921

01-08-2008, 14:18

Haha, he makes it easy for Peter to look good.

OverKnight

01-08-2008, 15:26

I've uploaded a new save. The link to it and my battle stats can be found in the orders thread.

AussieGiant

01-08-2008, 15:37

Well done OK.

Anyone else, or are you just a pack of big blouse's?? :beam:

Keep in mind I'm goading you all because the last thing we can really do is go on the offensive when our nation is about to be plague ridden.

OverKnight

01-08-2008, 15:43

Keep in mind one of the reasons I'm sallying so aggressively is that I want to get the hell out of the besieged plague ridden hell-hole that Matt is in. Between plague and usual siege attrition, my army is being nibbled to death. :skull:

TinCow

01-08-2008, 16:08

Well, the Steffen boys are are used to being in ill-health. That damn witch still causes problems for me in every battle, though I think Lothar has recovered slightly.

Cecil XIX

01-08-2008, 16:50

Well, the Steffen boys are are used to being in ill-health. That damn witch still causes problems for me in every battle, though I think Lothar has recovered slightly.

Indeed, and the witch is probably responsible for making Hermann ugly and a hypochondriac.

AussieGiant

01-08-2008, 17:12

Igno you're on active duty.

So can you please, please please lift the siege of Vienna...it's causing some heart ache for me now.

GeneralHankerchief

01-08-2008, 21:24

Indeed, and the witch is probably responsible for making Hermann ugly and a hypochondriac.

Herrmann's a hypochondriac too?

Now I've gotta go look at the save to check.

deguerra

01-08-2008, 22:30

The damn bloody plague made it through to Bruges as well, despite it being besieged. I don't wanna lose Ludwig now, he's just getting interesting and hgih-statsy. Stupid unforseeable life-events :beam: In any case, I will not be sallying. So just sit me tight until those French sissies attack again

Northnovas

01-09-2008, 04:09

I found the history helpful. I forgot about the biography I started with Karl so I quickly finished it off. For the newer players who may not have been aware of the site. I think GeneralHankerchief was the creator.

https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/List_of_King_of_the_Romans_characters

I guess I should get Johann in there.

OverKnight

01-09-2008, 09:08

Hey FactionHeir, nice catch on the search in thread tool in the Backroom.

We can now search the KotR threads for specific phrases or posts by user name.

For example, if Ituralde wanted to know all the nice things people said about his last avatar, he could search search the Diet threads using "Siegfried" as the key word.

This should be quite useful.

On another note, I had forgotten about GH's contributions with the wiki articles. When I get some time, I'm going to brush up the entry on Otto and Matthias. If fully developed, it would be a nice complement to the history and library with a focus on individuals and specific events instead of a chronology. The entries on some of the earlier characters and the Swabian Civil War demonstrate this nicely.

Warluster

01-09-2008, 09:30

Some news; I won't be able to fight battles for a long time. I may be able to in about a month. The reason; My game works fine now (1.3) but it has some problems which means I can't mod the game, which is not good because I am a modder. I have to reinstall, and that means reinstalling the patches, all up over 1.2 GB. it would take a LONG time, time I don't have unfortunely. So I may be able to get it on a CD or otherwise. I was meant to get Kingdoms for Xmas, but instead EUIII. But don't count me out, I will still be playing this PBM the same, just with the minus of battles. Your going to have to autoresolve them or have a sub.

I am going to contact a company over here (There called PCPowerPlay) I get there mags every month, and am going to suggest in their forums to include M2TW Patch 1.2 and 1.3.

I forgot to add; is thee anyway I can get the patches really fast. I've heard of some TOrrent thing which makes it go faster, how does that work? is there any way I can get the patches faster?

AussieGiant

01-09-2008, 09:51

Warluster,

If you're away for a long time frmo battles like I was you can nominate a second to fight all your battles.

Just select that person and post that in the "duty thread".

FH

Please take the save and do as you have outlined in me by PM about moving the 1st SHA and relieving Dijon.

As for the rest of you...well I am going to try and prevent deliberate spreading but the game does do it by itself you know.

deguerra

01-09-2008, 10:45

hmm where in Australia are you Warluster? Perhaps I can send you stuff by DVD or something.

As for torrents: don't ask me how they work exactly, but basically your download an intermediate file (the torret) which you open with a special program (mine is azureus http://azureus.sourceforge.net/) which then connects itself to a variety of hosts to download the actual file (AFAIK anyway, im no computer buff). Meaning, IF there are a lot of hosts, it will be considerably faster than a normal download (where there is only one host), but if there are not it obviously won't be. As for wether the M2TW patches even exist as torrents I don't know but you could hunt certain websites for them:

http://isohunt.com/
http://torrentspy.com/
http://thepiratebay.org/

(I assume its ok to post these, given it's only for a completely legal purpose? If not I'll remove them of course).

As I said, those sites will lead you to download a small torrent file, which you would then have to open with eg Azureus, which will the download the actual file.

How are you finding EUIII, I would definetely recommend the Magna Mundi mod for that

cheers

-deguerra

edit: I'd also be more than happy to play your battles, if you want.

FactionHeir

01-09-2008, 10:59

I can send you the old azureus installer if you want (the new azureus vuze is just flashier and IMO less useful). Its difficult to get these days.

You can get the patch off some other sites which have Australian mirrors. Check the links on totalwar.com for the patch downloads.
If you want the torrent one, you could go to sites like mininova. I'm sure I saw the patch there a while ago. Too bad they took down demonoid, otherwise I'd send you an invite.

Oh, and I'd be willing to sub too.

AussieGiant

01-09-2008, 16:15

So FH,

The save you have posted is the recent moves with the details in the PM?

Correct?

FactionHeir

01-09-2008, 16:16

Yes.
Didn't add money for AI though.

AussieGiant

01-09-2008, 16:32

Yes.
Didn't add money for AI though.

Can you do that please? Pretty please...:balloon2:

FactionHeir

01-09-2008, 16:38

Sorry, not at home and studying for my last exam on friday.

AussieGiant

01-09-2008, 17:52

Sorry, not at home and studying for my last exam on friday.

Thanks for the feedback FH. I'll do it when I get home.

Good luck in your exam.

AussieGiant

01-09-2008, 18:08

Guy's we have some crucial battles to fight and the 24 hour period is well over.

Stuperman are you going to relieve Bologna?

Igno are you going to fight off the Hungarian's around Vienna?

If these two things don't get done it will have an impact on us directly.

Let me know what you think?

econ21

01-09-2008, 18:44

Guy's we have some crucial battles to fight and the 24 hour period is well over.

And the 48 hour period they have under the Charter is going to expire tonight. If they don't fight the battles by then, I would move on. A few set backs will make things more fun. But anyway, I fear the plague more than the AI factions right now.

Ramses II CP

01-09-2008, 20:06

Man, is Bologna going to be exterminated again? I guess it will make Fritz look like not quite such a villain in retrospect...

:egypt:

Cecil XIX

01-09-2008, 20:28

I just hope Igno doesn't let Vienna fall. God help von Hapsburg if that happens.

FactionHeir

01-09-2008, 20:47

He doesn't get Antwerp either way. I guess he doesn't care :grin:

deguerra

01-09-2008, 22:20

if HE gets Antwerp, Ludwig will go on a rampage, and it won't be in Outremer

:clown:

GeneralHankerchief

01-09-2008, 22:32

Sparked by the discussion, I'm happy to announce that the Wiki article on the Swabian Civil War (https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/Swabian_Civil_War) is no longer unfinished!!! :medievalcheers:

Of course, it'll never be quite finished since there's always room for improvement, but still.

Now we need to get to the bigger task: Completing the character list.

FactionHeir

01-09-2008, 22:32

You might go on a rampage on his Outremer possibly?

Zim

01-09-2008, 22:36

I thought the Antwerp thing was kind of odd. Luckily, Kaiser Peter doesn't seem the type to go for it.

gibsonsg91921

01-10-2008, 00:12

Kaiser Peter seems like the type to hold onto Antwerp until conditions are stabilized - both Swabia and Franconia have a claim to it.

Cecil XIX

01-10-2008, 00:30

gibsonsg91921

01-10-2008, 00:33

Yeah, maybe if Péter didn't grow up he'd start one. There's gotta be someone who would, though. Maybe my next avatar will just join some polarizing character and drag the Reich into Civil War.

Warluster

01-10-2008, 00:34

Between all of the Duchy's? Among others also I'd like to see someone try and form a fifth Duchy, or have a ArchDuchy.

Thanks FH and deguerra for the offers, I've mostly solved the problem with some help. I found I only need to download Patch 1.2 (Found 1.3 hiding in my backup file area) which should be pretty easy.

Cecil XIX

01-10-2008, 00:41

Between all of the Duchy's? Among others also I'd like to see someone try and form a fifth Duchy, or have a ArchDuchy.

Indeed, I too would like to see the Four House structure changed or challenged for often. I say that if it's not being fought for, it's becoming stagnant.

Ramses II CP

01-10-2008, 00:45

The next generation doesn't really have a villain yet, and most of the older generation seems to have pretty high loyalty. If we're going to have a rebellion I imagine it'll have to be two Dukes whom the Kaiser and other Dukes can't control.

:egypt:

gibsonsg91921

01-10-2008, 00:46

A Duke the Kaiser can't control? Unheard of!

GeneralHankerchief

01-10-2008, 00:55

Well, the Cataclysm and the Civil War (Loyalist victory) either killed off the current villians or knocked their influence down a peg. So that explains that, and the young generation is most likely beyond Cataclysm politics and just trying to make a name for themselves/heal the Reich. I can't speak for Northnovas or econ but that's how Herrmann is being RP'd anyway.

I would gladly step into the villian role again, but, while fun, being the bad guy is definitely taxing, especially if he doesn't particularly wield too much power.

Cecil XIX

01-10-2008, 01:10

A Duke the Kaiser can't control? Unheard of!

Well played, gibsonsg91921. Well played.

TinCow

01-10-2008, 01:12

I would very much recommend against trying to make major changes to the House structure of KOTR. The rule system is too heavily dependant upon it and it would create huge problems to try and rewrite it mid-game. I fully support a revamped rule system, but I think we need to start a new game in order to do it properly. I have gone so far as to write a complete and detailed rule system that I think will open up all kinds of new possibilities for the next generation of this game, but I don't want to post it or discuss it publicly until KOTR is done. It will distract too heavily from this game and KOTR deserves to have a proper firm ending, not a death due to lack of interest. If everyone really does want to shake things up in a major way, I think the best course of action is to set an actual end-date for the game and finish it, then move on to the next generation PBM.

deguerra

01-10-2008, 01:16

End it? If you think I'm making all of you new Coat of Arms in a month, you are very much mistaken
:clown: Just kidding, so long as I have the time, I'm on it

deguerra

01-10-2008, 01:18

On that note, hypothetically, if a new game was started, we would have vastly more players (I assume) than initial avatars. How would that work?

FactionHeir

01-10-2008, 01:20

Recruitable generals :evil:

TinCow

01-10-2008, 01:20

I have a solution for that, but answering the question would start a discussion on the next rules system and, as I said, I think doing that would greatly distract from KOTR. Let's save it until we all think we're done here, whenever that is.

deguerra

01-10-2008, 01:21

yepyep. agreed with Tincow. The question is withdrawn. :yes:

Zim

01-10-2008, 01:33

I was wondering how the next one of these would work with so many possible players. If it comes down to it, I'd happily go on some sort of list and wait for an avatar.

I wonder if we should talk about an end to KOTR? I think Econ had the right idea in establishing an end goal, even if it did poorly IC in the Diet. For me, I figure the longer this lasts, the better. I've been having a lot of fun with it. :yes:

gibsonsg91921

01-10-2008, 01:46

Nameless Electors with a lottery for avatars.

Cecil XIX

01-10-2008, 02:13

I wonder if we should talk about an end to KOTR?

We're going to do that after the Chancellorship after next ends.

Ramses II CP

01-10-2008, 03:12

I know nobody wanted to open this discussion yet, but IMHO individual players have too much information at their disposal to make their decisions. If the save were inaccessable except for battles (+ the Chancellor/Kasier/etc.), and players had to make decisions based on, for example, screenshots and suggestions from their leadership communication and trust would play a larger role. Right now the Duchy threads are all but dead because there's little to discuss, we all know each other's situation right down to each lonely militia spearman and each plague infested general.

There might also be a role for taking a spy as an avatar or similar, though game mechanics would make it difficult. Alternately banning spies, and banning watch towers, might make it much more difficult to make decisions.

Anyway, nobody wants to over complicate matters, but we really know almost everything about each other and our enemies.

:egypt:

Cecil XIX

01-10-2008, 04:14

I think the Duchy threads are plenty active. It's just that we've been in the same situation with essentially the same challenges since the cataclysm began. It's not because of saves, we've always had access to those.

Reverend Joe

01-10-2008, 04:42

GeneralHankerchief

01-10-2008, 04:47

If you guys are talking about different rules for the next game, maybe one of them should involve modifying the game turns/years, because it's really starting to freak me out reading about people living well over 100 years and aging at 1/4 that rate. Nobody should take 240 years to reach age 60.

Just a thought.

IIRC, at the start of the game we were debating on doing this very thing, but decided that if we did modify the rate a lot of cool events (like the Mongols, Black Death, Americas) would never see the light of day.

Looking back, especially with our user-created scenarios like the Cataclysm, I'm not sure if this was the best idea.

OverKnight

01-10-2008, 05:06

I think house threads are still useful. They serve to coordinate houses en masse rather than have a flurry of PMs. Obviously, the volume of use on different house threads has been different, but I think the relative success of each of the Duchies and Outremer in the past few years can be correlated with thread use.

Also with the Diet restored, that has diverted some of the traffic that would have occured on the threads. The holidays may have played a part as well.

On another note, I'm not ready to end KotR yet, so step off with all this what's next speculation. :whip:

Zim

01-10-2008, 05:14

I think it's also that it takes a few days to do a turn, so sometimes we don't have much to talk about. Despite that, I think most of the threads have been fairly busy.

Northnovas

01-10-2008, 06:14

I find the threads very useful for House members to get a picture of what is goingon and it does cut down on the pm use. There has been a lull and I think it was the holidays when everyone runs on a different clock.

I am do not want any discussion about game end just yet. There is still some playing we are not even near or pre-cataclysm holdings.

The age thing is a liitle annoying even in SP and it even freaks me out when you look back at the character and see their lifespan over 200 years.:skull:

AussieGiant

01-10-2008, 09:32

Hi All,

I'm out tonight due to RL issues. So Friday will be another push on the game by me.

Certainly not having those two situations resolved could cause some more problems for the respective Houses. That's something I have no problem with.

Of course IC Arnold's going to make his thoughts well understood, but that's roleplaying :beam:

I think we should stick with the aging process. This game is fundamentally balanced on how the timeline is handled.

It's a slippery slope to dive into that topic and could easily take up a massive portion of any future game mechanic discussions.

There is another lull it seems. I can't even get Arnold to piss anyone off which is amazing. But lull's are normal and luckily, as they come, they also go.

So I expect another increase soon in the general activity as people get into their new years rhythm again.

Ituralde

01-10-2008, 13:01

Ferret

01-10-2008, 13:59

AussieGiant

01-10-2008, 14:50

I've used my free time to write the biography of Duke Leopold (https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/List_of_King_of_the_Romans_characters#Leopold) and have also started work on Siegfried von Kastilien (https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/List_of_King_of_the_Romans_characters#Siegfried_von_Kastilien).
I had already forgot about the wiki, but it is a really good idea. To describe the end of Siegfried's reign may prove difficult though. :beam:

I hope you are at least partially proud of your son Ituralde :beam:

You were the first Dread character in the game and I had Arnold take it to the next level. He seems to have mellowed though...I'm going to have to give him one last push before he dies.

Ituralde

01-10-2008, 15:37

I believe it were the same sentiments that urged me to kill Leopold in battle. It just didn't seem right to let him die in bed. :2thumbsup:

gibsonsg91921

01-10-2008, 23:01

anyone care to join me? :clown:

I'd say Dieter is the least likely of the Dukes to rebel against me.

AussieGiant

01-11-2008, 09:54

I'd say Dieter is the least likely of the Dukes to rebel against me.

Elberhard severely tested Arnold and that's with a 10 in loyalty. :yes:

Ferret

01-11-2008, 15:35

is it me or has it been veeeeery quiet lately

OverKnight

01-11-2008, 16:01

I'm sure things will pick up once we get a report and move to the next turn.

FactionHeir

01-11-2008, 16:02

Not even the sound of the occassional Cricket can be heard

Northnovas

01-11-2008, 16:18

Just the splash of a drink being poured into a glass by a lonely man with a loud sigh...

AussieGiant

01-11-2008, 17:20

right'o , right'o!!

I get the picture. :beam:

But you know where getting progressively further in the manure because SOME people are not active when they say they're active. :wall:

Ramses II CP

01-11-2008, 17:21

Knowing that we're all going to get the plague has really cast a pall over the place. You know if enough of us die in just the wrong places it could end up being worse than the Cataclysm. The buffed up AI depends heavily on facing a player for not overrunning us in short order (Well that, and gross strategic incompetence).

:egypt:

OverKnight

01-11-2008, 17:46

AussieGiant

01-11-2008, 18:02

AG,

As econ21 said, we got to roll with things like inactive or sluggish players. Relieving Vienna looked doable, but I looked at Stupes army and the Greek one you wanted him to attack to relieve Bologna and it looked iffy. Even if he won, losses would be so high all he could do after is hole up in Bologna.

The momentary withdrawal of the Kaiser's army from Italy has turned the tide against us, IMHO. Dieter von Kassel is stuck in Naples for a bit, and the remaining forces in Italy can't face those Greek superstacks on even terms for the moment.

Yes your analysis right...but I've taken the approach IC that Arnold will push everyone as hard as he can to get the best bang for his buck in this period of the game.

That might have not been obvious to some...which it is going to be now, DOH!!

The super stacks are great...I love em. Every time one of us goes;

"Er I'm not sure I want to stick my todger in there."

I think to myself; "I just love em, they make us afraid and that's such a good thing for this game."

Stuperman

01-11-2008, 19:01

AG,

As econ21 said, we got to roll with things like inactive or sluggish players. Relieving Vienna looked doable, but I looked at Stupes army and the Greek one you wanted him to attack to relieve Bologna and it looked iffy. Even if he won, losses would be so high all he could do after is hole up in Bologna.

The momentary withdrawal of the Kaiser's army from Italy has turned the tide against us, IMHO. Dieter von Kassel is stuck in Naples for a bit, and the remaining forces in Italy can't face those Greek superstacks on even terms for the moment.

That's why I have been apprehensive to fight my battle, I think canons are the only hope, but I've never used them, and I'm outnumbered, and I have a chivalrous general....

Northnovas

01-11-2008, 19:20

That's why I have been apprehensive to fight my battle, I think canons are the only hope, but I've never used them, and I'm outnumbered, and I have a chivalrous general....

Ahh, cannons! I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning... it smells like victory!

FactionHeir

01-11-2008, 19:35

The deadline for battles has long since passed. I think its time to move on really.
Either of those you are waiting for have been very active on the other forum sections, so it sounds more like they don't want to fight.

gibsonsg91921

01-12-2008, 01:33

Elberhard severely tested Arnold and that's with a 10 in loyalty. :yes:

peter is 6 authority and was 10 loyalty, so we'll see how you all react.

econ21

01-12-2008, 02:57

So Friday will be another push on the game by me.

Certainly not having those two situations resolved could cause some more problems for the respective Houses. That's something I have no problem with.

How's the big push going?

I agree with Factionheir, there's no point waiting for those two situations to resolve themselves this turn. Ignoramus normally does not log in over weekends and Stuperman's not biting.

It's fine for Arnold to push them IC, but OOC we are about 48 hours beyond the deadline for fighting battles (which itself was 48 hours after the start of turn savegame was posted) so we are coming up against CA 14.8.

IC, I think those two situations are a case of the proverbial you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Stuperman

01-12-2008, 04:05

ugh, I really don't think I can win move me to be in a position to assist with the assault when it does come.

Northnovas

01-12-2008, 04:48

Just looking at the file folder index for the saves and the kotr 1080 was 11 Jan 07. I would imagine that was the first save. Its been 1 year.:balloon2:

GeneralHankerchief

01-12-2008, 05:11

Yeah, today was the one-year anniversary.

It's been one amazing ride, guys. :bow:

Warluster

01-12-2008, 05:20

I have to agree, its been very fun, and I hope it lasts so it can reach the Americas!

Ramses II CP

01-12-2008, 05:44

Eh, the Aztecs are pathetic. I'd happily face any two 3x gold stacks of their troops over a single 3x silver stack of Poles or Byzantines.

The Timurids, OTOH, are going to be great fun. I'm just hoping Franconia/Austria make it to Kiev before they come onto the scene (And that they come in at Sarkel/Bulgar obviously).

:egypt:

AussieGiant

01-12-2008, 09:38

Ok guy's I'm taking the save soon.

1350 will be up this afternoon at the latest and the defensive battle list will be post by about 15:00 GMT +1 today.

AussieGiant

01-12-2008, 11:41

Did we ban the use of forts? I can't remember.

FactionHeir

01-12-2008, 12:05

We did not. Why?

econ21

01-12-2008, 12:37

I've updated the play list in the first post of the Orders thread - let me know if there are any errors. I am not too worried about stats and influence - I'll check them before the next Diet vote. But if anyone has been made a Count or something, and I've missed it, shout out.

AussieGiant

01-12-2008, 13:15

We did not. Why?

I was just checking. I guess not. Which is good because I've made one in the mountain pass above Ragusa.

Although I have an uneasy feeling that this is not such a good idea. :inquisitive:

Thanks for the update Econ.

That turn took a bloody long time to organise. This plague is really making me concentrate.

So, I'm going to post up the defensive battle list after I eat.

AussieGiant

01-12-2008, 14:19

OK, Cecil

You are both up in the defensive season in the "Orders thread". :2thumbsup:

OverKnight

01-12-2008, 14:25

So we elected the Anti-Christ Chancellor? That does explain Arnold's campaign slogan, "Why elect the lesser of two evils?"

With that trenchant comment out of the way, I'll fight the battle.

Edit: Once the save is up.

AussieGiant

01-12-2008, 15:57

answered the PM OK. Go right ahead.

AussieGiant

01-12-2008, 15:58

AussieGiant

01-13-2008, 00:21

Hi all,

1350 is finally done. A grim end to the year.

1352 will be up for everyone to take a look tomorrow.

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2008, 01:58

Hi all,

1350 is finally done. A grim end to the year.

1352 will be up for everyone to take a look tomorrow.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with five turns after the Cataclysm having now passed, isn't there a poll on one of the OOC game mechanics CAs that needs to be put up now?

Cecil XIX

01-13-2008, 02:59

Indeed, OOC CA 14.2. Good of you to remember.

OOC CA 14.2: At the start of each turn, the Chancellor will post an annual report on the last turn, including a save game. The report will list battles that could be fought this turn. Players will have 24 hours to fight these battles or suggest moves for their characters. This system will be trialled for 5 turns and then either abandoned or continued based on majority opinion.

I vote yea, incidentally.

econ21

01-13-2008, 03:32

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with five turns after the Cataclysm having now passed, isn't there a poll on one of the OOC game mechanics CAs that needs to be put up now?

We can have a poll if anyone wants one. As discussed a turn ago, I think the system is working well. Posting a start of turn save and having a 24 hour moratorium on moves by the Chancellor gives players a chance to keep up with events and gives them a window of opportunity to make suggestions for moves. And making the players instructions "suggestions" only, gives the Chancellor some wriggle room in case the instructions are uninformed or need more coordination. Allowing offensive battles to be fought stops that 24 hours being dead time. I think the last turn or so was a little slow because there were so many battles and some RL stuff intervened - not because of the 24 hour window.

If anyone wants to go back to the old system, we can have a poll but I think it is working out ok.

GeneralHankerchief

01-13-2008, 03:36

We can have a poll if anyone wants one. As discussed a turn ago, I think the system is working well. Posting a start of turn save and having a 24 hour moratorium on moves by the Chancellor gives players a chance to keep up with events and gives them a window of opportunity to make suggestions for moves. And making the players instructions "suggestions" only, gives the Chancellor some wriggle room in case the instructions are uninformed or need more coordination. Allowing offensive battles to be fought stops that 24 hours being dead time. I think the last turn or so was a little slow because there were so many battles and some RL stuff intervened - not because of the 24 hour window.

If anyone wants to go back to the old system, we can have a poll but I think it is working out ok.

I'll defer to AG's opinion, him being Chancellor and all. He's probably in a better position than any of us to say how the system is working (although you did fill in for him that one week) and I'll admit that I haven't paid much attention to the savegames this term.

TinCow

01-13-2008, 03:45

I think it's working fine and will vote in favor of it if a poll is made.

OverKnight

01-13-2008, 09:33

My battle report is up:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1802918&postcount=232

AussieGiant

01-13-2008, 10:23

Hi Guy's,

I think it is working well. I'm going to post up 1352 this afternoon.

Something I forgot to let you all know was that last week I was quite sick and was basically in bed between 9:30 and 10:00 so I could go to work and be vaguely human.

This was one of the reasons the 24 hours period was about 5 days.

While I'm not 100% now I am nearly better so I don't need those early nights.

I think most Chancellor's after me will like the system also. It involves the players that want to be involved and gives the Chancellor input that he must take into consideration. I like it and I would certainly like it if I wasn't the Chancellor.

It does impact things like House Army orders because now the Duke's and commanders can move them around as they please. The only issue that has occurred is the one I brought up before, which is where the Ducal region can get uncoordinated unless the Duke or someone take a look at the whole thing.

That's also not to say that the Chancellor can't be totally in-charge and do what he pleases, because he can. These can then be played out IC in my opinion.

I moved the Teuton's to Frankfurt for example, and by accident infected the SHA with regiments from Staufen.

If everyone is cool with this then I have no problem continuing with it without a vote, but what I would say here is that it should be binding officially now even without a vote so there is no "technical" comeback option later.

AussieGiant

01-13-2008, 16:58

Now that I've had time to read some of the other games going on here it does seem as if the reason KoTR has had a lull is potentially due to "Other" games.

:balloon2:

Ferret

01-13-2008, 17:13

excuses, excuses... :clown:

AussieGiant

01-13-2008, 17:42

excuses, excuses... :clown:

I'm certainly at fault...but not anymore.

The lack of Diet, House or Tavern posting is what makes this all feel a bit like a ghost town.

I mean the Chancellor's turning into something otherworldly and everyone's kinda;

"Hmph, he's doin' a fair job, so what if his eye's glow and the candle's go out when he comes to the meetings. We've got other stuff to worry about!!"

gibsonsg91921

01-13-2008, 18:14

Haha, it sure ain't Frozen Crusade that's holding us up, it isn't very active either. Maybe I have a battle to fight that I haven't...

Zim's computer may be down again. In that case it's cool.

Ramses II CP

01-13-2008, 18:15

Fritz is quite pleased to be led by the Lord of Darkness. I'm rather hoping Peter gets 'Lord of Terror' too. That's always a fun one.

Of course Fritz has orders now to release prisoners from his Duke, and he's cursed loyal on top of it, so it'll likely be all ransoming at best from now on. Hard to gain dread when you're always outnumbered and can't execute prisoners. :laugh4:

:egypt:

AussieGiant

01-13-2008, 18:18

OverKnight

01-13-2008, 18:25

AussieGiant

01-13-2008, 18:37

A lack of discussion in the Diet is usually the norm in between Diet sessions.

The only exception is when the Chancellor is not performing up to the expectations of the Electors, ie buying Scotland or trading Outremer for magic beans, so consider it a backhanded compliment. :laugh4:

As I suspected OK;

"Hmph, he's doin' a fair job, so what if his eye's glow and the candle's go out when he comes to the meetings. We've got other stuff to worry about!!" :beam:

Northnovas

01-13-2008, 19:48

Very true Ramses.

Northnovas!! I sent you and IC PM, please read BEFORE you fight the battle!!

-edit-

Good grief, I wonder if he sees this in time.

I think I may have just ordered every man jack of them to get the plague. :-(

I saw it after the battle and pm back that I got the jest no one is affected. However, we lost one in battle. I only used a second BG and pulled one out of the stack to follow the rules. I hate using anyone's avatar in battle just for the reason that happened.
I needed one because I didn't know where the reinforcements were going to arrive and didn't have the best troops to be on my own to start the battle. I needed that extra oomph!
My apologies to PK.

flyd

01-13-2008, 19:58

Something I forgot to let you all know was that last week I was quite sick and was basically in bed between 9:30 and 10:00 so I could go to work and be vaguely human.

Well, you may know the variant of Murphy's Law that says when you use an excuse, that thing will happen to you. Like if you come in late for work, and say it was because you had a flat tire, the next morning you really will have a flat tire.

You excused your first absence with a story that Arnold got the plague. Then Arnold did get the plague. Then YOU got the plague. :laugh4:

AussieGiant

01-13-2008, 21:44

You excused your first absence with a story that Arnold got the plague. Then Arnold did get the plague. Then YOU got the plague. :laugh4:

Wow, that's a bit freaky now you mention it Flydude.

I should have just said I was going to visit a girl, then what would have happened? :beam:

And I must say this game is starting to get a little bloody dangerous lately. God knows what happens when the plague starts taking some of us.

Ramses II CP

01-13-2008, 22:24

AussieGiant

01-13-2008, 22:30

Good grief AG, don't question it, do it.

Fritz is down with a bad case of chasing tall blond girls south of Arhus.

I'm not available to fight battles because the Swedish women's swim team is planning a pillow fight in my living room.

P.S. Don't tell my wife.

:laugh4: :clown:

:egypt:

LMAO!!

Yes, I don't think I can be the Chancellor this week because the 21-28 year old , Norwegian All girls croquet team is having a slumber party at my house from Tuesday to Friday this week.

Hmmm, decisions, decisions.

Zim

01-13-2008, 22:36

I'm working on it. ~;p

Haha, it sure ain't Frozen Crusade that's holding us up, it isn't very active either. Maybe I have a battle to fight that I haven't...

Zim's computer may be down again. In that case it's cool.

econ21

01-13-2008, 22:48

I'm sad Roadkill lost yet another avatar. Last night, I was wondering whether to reassign him PK's (as PK is taking an indefinite time out from this game) but am glad I did not - it turns out, that would have been adding insult to injury.

AG - I would not worry about the lack of debate in the Diet. As long as people are posting orders and fighting battles, the PBM is going fine. We are currently in the situation where we are fighting the AI, not each other. It probably won't last but enjoy it while you can.

FactionHeir

01-13-2008, 23:27

Guys,

Why is the SHA1 plagued when it wasn't last turn even?! I have not ordered any plagued unit into it personally nor via orders and I doubt Warluster had either.

Anyone care to explain, because this pretty much ruins all strategy that I had planned and might well lead to massive losses on the Swabian Front?

If this was by accident, then I request that a full new stack be created via console with right numbers (pre plague, i.e. plus the losses of this turn start). I can do that if neccesary (I know how to create non full regiments via console) as I have numbers of the previous turn.

AussieGiant

01-13-2008, 23:28

Well that explains the situation out in Vienna.

The time is very fortunate then with Jan Zirn coming of age. RK can take him.

And yes I suppose I shouldn't be complaining about the Reich wide harmony.

and FH, I assume you are initiating battle, because otherwise you need to let me know before you go and do any maneuvers. Correct?

FactionHeir

01-13-2008, 23:30

Not doing any battles, checking possible moves and moving the chess pieces of Swabia into position actually (which is difficult to describe via PM)

Need your reply regarding the above

AussieGiant

01-14-2008, 00:30

Not doing any battles, checking possible moves and moving the chess pieces of Swabia into position actually (which is difficult to describe via PM)

Need your reply regarding the above

While I understand the difficulty of trying to explain what you would like to do FH, you are essentially micro managing an entire Duchy as you would like it to be run by the sounds of things.

There is a degree of understanding in this 24 hour rule that needs to be approached in the correct manner between all parties, and it's not set out in stone.

None of the other Duke's or Counts for that matter are requesting the ability you have requested from me.

I hope there is no "peaking"/"adjusting"/"testing" going on in order to find that "killer" move or combination of moves that take any and all of the uncertainty/fun out of this game.

Just to be clear, financial and non-general avatar adjustment is completely out of the understand I have of the 24 hour deal, and if it is done by anyone except the Chancellor then it's only when someone PM's me first and we agree. This also applies to any other avatar movement that is not your own.

I hope you can see my point FH, because the pre battle moves (as you very well know) are in fact more important than the battles themselves. Strategy is the domain of the Chancellors, while tactics are the domain of the General's.

I'm not trying to sound like a "kill joy" but the boundaries are blurring.

FactionHeir

01-14-2008, 00:42

Fully understood.

I took the save and mainly rejigged the forces so they'd be back at non plagued 1350 status. Will PM you regarding moves before uploading.

econ21

01-14-2008, 01:54

I took the save and mainly rejigged the forces so they'd be back at non plagued 1350 status. Will PM you regarding moves before uploading.

I'm sorry, but that does not sound right. The SHA is plagued. Yes, it happened by error, but it happened. We can't use the console or other manipulation to undo that. (For example, I've reacted IC to it about 24 hours ago.)

I think that AussieGiant and everyone should regard Northnovas save as the latest one, ie:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1352-2.zip

If you want any moves making, Factionheir, please post them in the orders thread and let the Chancellor make them. Now we have the orders thread, there's no need for PMs to the Chancellor giving orders. And generally speaking players should not upload saves unless they are fighting a battle. If AussieGiant asks you to execute a complex maneouvre, that's fine (although even then, I'd like to see the maneouvre publicly documented in the orders thread so players can appreciate it.)

Swabia's in tough position right now but a "with one bound they were free" kind of escape would not be satisfying.

GeneralHankerchief

01-14-2008, 01:58

I'm sorry, but that does not sound right. The SHA is plagued. Yes, it happened by error, but it happened. We can't use the console or other manipulation to undo that. (For example, I've reacted IC to it about 24 hours ago.)

Agreed. We need to roll with the punches.

AussieGiant

01-14-2008, 02:15

Hi FH,

I've replied to your PM, and I support econ's position on the matter.

I unintentionally infected the SHA because movements where not made by me the turn previously and I can simply not keep up with infected regimental movements when this happens.

Please use the orders thread to outlined what you did in the PM. In my opinion this is a good OOC and IC system as it doesn't allow for micro managment and therefore simulates what things would be like in reality.

1352-2 from Northnovas is the latest version for anyone else in the mean time.

Cheers
AG

Ramses II CP

01-14-2008, 02:49

This all seems to have started when I checked the save this morning and noticed by chance that the former garrison from Hamburg wasn't infected, but Arhus was. If my request from last turn had gone through as intended they'd all be infected, so I hope it's clear that I wasn't premeditatedly trying to manipulate the situation. I should've just pm'd/posted AG my move, but given the fact that I was sitting there looking at what needed to be done I got ahead of things and just did it. There seemed to be precedent in what had happened before with people precisely tweaking their position, but I apologize if I opened a can of worms.

Fritz inevitably will become infected as I couldn't set stakes if I let my longbowmen come in as reinforcements, or choose the position of the bombard, etc. and those men are pretty clearly infected as they just came out of Arhus, which has the plague icon. All I bought him was 4 uninfected companies and a turn or two of health.

:egypt:

Stuperman

01-14-2008, 03:24

just checking in, I'll be on later

econ21

01-14-2008, 11:39

I've just been reading the last few battle reports - absolutely fantastic! :2thumbsup: I could follow every move and they were gripping contests (well, Overknight's brilliant destruction of the Byzantines at Adana was less a contest and more a dissection but still gripping to read). The write-ups were very involving and the screenshots superb. :bow:

I hope people don't feel they are fighting too much against the odds, but those kind of epic close run battles at Prague and Vienna are the sort of experience that attracted me to TW.

AussieGiant

01-14-2008, 21:56

Hi All,

A couple of things.

OK are you sure you don't want some units recruited in Adana? Your army, in comparison to theirs, has me quite concerned.

In the latest save 1352-4 I've moved Erlach's army and the Kaiser's to bracket the French force west of Milan. If either attack the other would be reinforcements.

Anyone of the nobles in attendance could conduct this fight.

Gibson or Tristan on behalf of the Kaiser and his army, or Stuperman in the BHA (Otto I think?).

Please let me know.

Also in Magdeburg if EF can't fight then Dutch-Guy or Flydude could deputise for him potentially.

These are very winnable situations in my mind. Please let me know if anyone's interested.

Cheers
AG

P.S. and I must also state the level of battle reports has been great lately.

gibsonsg91921

01-14-2008, 23:29

I'm fine with Tristan fighting, I got finals.

GeneralHankerchief

01-15-2008, 00:53

"Verily"?

Gibson, Gibson, Gibson... :dizzy2:

gibsonsg91921

01-15-2008, 03:01

What do you mean by verily? You have finals too? Haha.

My FRQ is tommorow for AP Euro, the topic for me is about Martin Luther by my choice. I don't know what the question is, however.

OverKnight

01-15-2008, 03:05

Just don't go confusing our alternate history with the real thing. :laugh4:

gibsonsg91921

01-15-2008, 03:06

Yeah.

"Martin Luther's actions precipitated the Cataclysm for the Holy Roman Empire. Man, were those mofos worried."

GeneralHankerchief

01-15-2008, 04:07

No finals until June here (my school wimps out on midterms, not that I'm complaining), but I do have a DBQ on the Thirty Years' War tomorrow.

I suppose that KotR has really been an extended version of that entire conflict, although I'm scared that we're in the midst of the French Period.

Also, we definitely need a version of the Defenestration of Prague. :laugh4:

AussieGiant

01-15-2008, 09:32

Hi All,

A couple of things.

OK are you sure you don't want some units recruited in Adana? Your army, in comparison to theirs, has me quite concerned.

In the latest save 1352-4 I've moved Erlach's army and the Kaiser's to bracket the French force west of Milan. If either attack the other would be reinforcements.

Anyone of the nobles in attendance could conduct this fight.

Gibson or Tristan on behalf of the Kaiser and his army, or Stuperman in the BHA (Otto I think?).

Please let me know.

Also in Magdeburg if EF can't fight then Dutch-Guy or Flydude could deputise for him potentially.

These are very winnable situations in my mind. Please let me know if anyone's interested.

Cheers
AG
P.S. and I must also state the level of battle reports has been great lately.

So Gibbo is fine with it. Tristan, Stups...

anyone....

Bueller....

Bueller...

anyone...

Bueller...

Hermann could be knighted as well...

anyone...?

_Tristan_

01-15-2008, 09:51

I won't be able to take the save now... As much as I would like to finally lay my hands on it...

What would be the deadline ? Perhaps I could get it in the meantime...

AussieGiant

01-15-2008, 10:07

Hi Tristan,

I'm going to finish up 1352 Wednesday night and have 1354 ready to roll for the next offensive season the same night.

I'm not sure which time zone you're in but I'm GMT +1 so I will be home from work from work Wednesday night around 19:30 and taking the save for good by around 20:00.

I hope that give you enough time, otherwise this situation around Milan is going to be like the Edinburgh Military Tattoo:

http://www.frontdesk.co.uk/edinburgh_tattoo

:beam:

FactionHeir

01-15-2008, 10:12

I think Hugo isn't knighted yet and cannot fight the battle.

_Tristan_

01-15-2008, 10:29

I think Hugo isn't knighted yet and cannot fight the battle.

True enough... Anyway deadline was a bit short...

econ21

01-15-2008, 10:33

I think Hugo isn't knighted yet and cannot fight the battle.

Tristan's avatar cannot command the army in an offensive battle (i.e. be the sole general in the stack and start the battle). However, if the Kaiser is in the stack, Gibson can delegate the fighting of the battle to Tristan. With his higher command, the Kaiser would get any traits, but it would allow Tristan's avatar to get knighted and also work around Gibson's OOC constraints. It is the reason I made Tristan's avatar "tribune" in that army - it's too powerful an army to be left without a human commander. FLYdude's avatar is in Magdeburg for the same reason.

The relevant rule is in a CA in section 1, but strangely unnumbered:

OOC Charter Amendment:
(a) Where there are multiple player controlled generals in a stack, then the player who plays out the battle is determined by who the computer designates is in command.
(b) An exception is that Household Armies (and the Army of Outremer) are always commanded by the designated Commander of said army.
(c) The commanding general may allow another player to fight a battle by mutual consent for OOC reasons.

As usual my CA is loosely drafted - clause (c) should read "another player whose avatar is in the battle". We don't want to go crazy allowing proxying as that breaks the role-playing side (and makes things too easy). Under (b), we should treat the Kaiser and Prinz's armies like Household Armies - they did not exist when we passed the CA.

If Tristan can't fight the battle, we could pass on it this turn - a little sloth will make the game more challenging. (Are there no Bavarians would can fight?)

AussieGiant

01-15-2008, 10:33

I think Hugo isn't knighted yet and cannot fight the battle.

Correct, and that's the problem.

Tristan can you attack before Wednesday around 20:00 GMT +1?

_Tristan_

01-15-2008, 10:57

Nope... I would be able to do it around Wednesday 22-23 PM (GMT+1) and not sure of it...

[EDIT] And I must admit that I feel it is too great a responsibility with so many player's avatars in the line of fire for my first fight... Still I would do it if auto-resolving or letting things stand let to a more disastrous result and if time allows of course...

Or it may bring the French plan to fruition : being in a position to take down the mighty Kaiser... :rifle:

econ21

01-15-2008, 11:07

I don't think we know Stuperman's availability yet - it would be good if he could fight it, as his avatar could benefit from any traits.

AussieGiant

01-15-2008, 13:04

Hi Tristan,

Thanks for the feedback but that's too late.

I guess it will be a parking lot outside Milan for the time being.

IC this is boarding on being a little nuts. :wall:

FactionHeir

01-15-2008, 13:08

I think being able to delegate the battle to another avatar in the stack should be fine, although it would be more prudent if used for defense rather than offense, as we do still have the clause of non knighted avatars not being able to take offensive action.

Anyway. Gah. We ought to make sure we don't have too many overlaps in future charters so we won't have to all become lawyers

AussieGiant

01-15-2008, 13:13

Anyway. Gah. We ought to make sure we don't have too many overlaps in future charters so we won't have to all become lawyers

I entirely agree FH, but I have the sneaky suspicion that that next PBM will be even more complex, wordy and full of legislation.

TinCow

01-15-2008, 13:26

I'm doing my best to prevent that, but I will admit my rules draft isn't exactly short.

AussieGiant

01-15-2008, 13:38

I'm doing my best to prevent that, but I will admit my rules draft isn't exactly short.

That coming from a lawyer, is truly terrifying :sweatdrop:

TinCow

01-15-2008, 14:34

Well, what I'm focusing on is two things:
1) Creating a complete rule set that covers all aspects of the basic feudal structure. These aren't really limits on what we can do so much as the basic setup of the world we're playing in itself. It deals with how the game works, who manages it, and what the effects are of various actions.
2) Identifying areas that shouldn't be legislated at all. I think part of our problem is that we have rules about too many aspects of the game. Everything above the basic structure of the game should be free and open to manipulation via the political process IMO. More edicts, fewer amendments.

If we want to jump back to the D&D analogy, #1 is something like the basic rules of character creation and advancement, while #2 is the specific 'adventure' we are playing. I (with a great deal of help from econ21) am trying to come up with a KOTR-version of the d20 system: a generic rule system that can be used for multiple games. It is not faction specific and has no game objective or real content of any kind. It's a structure that is simply designed to give us a sandbox-world to play around in.

GeneralHankerchief

01-15-2008, 14:39

I'd be able to fight it later today if necessary.

econ21

01-15-2008, 15:16

I'd be able to fight it later today if necessary.

By the rules, we should wait for Stuperman to delegate the fighting of the battle to you. But if you haven't heard from him by the time you are available, I would just go for it. It'll probably be past the 48 hour deadline for battles so I don't think he could complain if you do just take the save and fight the battle.

The good thing about having multiple generals in a stack is that it gives the Chancellor freedom to manage the temporary unavailability of players.

FactionHeir

01-15-2008, 15:18

Herrmann got knighted?

econ21

01-15-2008, 15:21

Herrmann got knighted?

Nope - he's in the same situation as Tristan. He can sub for the army commander - Stuperman in this case. He won't get the traits, but can fight the battle.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1805086&postcount=667

EDIT: A historical analogy would be with Marshal Ney at Waterloo - he fights the battle, Napoleon gets the credit (or not).

AussieGiant

01-15-2008, 16:01

Ok so that is good news regarding Milan. Thanks GH. Keep in mind gentlemen that if you look to your left when viewing Milan there are another 2 French stacks coming in from the west...the French are everywhere it seems :beam:

As for Warlusters final location this season...then I'm still very concerned about even putting him on the bridge with that whole SHA stack right behind him. What happens if they set up right on the bridge and rush him?

That will be a shocker of a battle given the reinforcements would never get there in time. To me he must set up on the back edge and take on the stack in the field...which is possible, but two??

That's more than likely what I will do though.

econ21

01-15-2008, 16:31

As for Warlusters final location this season...then I'm still very concerned about even putting him on the bridge with that whole SHA stack right behind him. What happens if they set up right on the bridge and rush him?

That's a valid concern. But perhaps the bridge + reinforcements would deter the AI? The French strategic AI seems strangely dilatory in Swabia - quite unlike the Byzantines elsewhere, who really seem keen to get down to it.

If the worst came to the worst and he is attacked, von Salza setting up at the back of a bridge map is one option. The bridge would buy him time to get his reinforcements. An alternative would be for him to use his escort to block the bridge exit for a while (the 2HP goes a long way) and then sacrifice a crossbow for the same end. The AI is rather slow crossing bridges and if the reinforcements run, they might make it. Three crossbows and an artillery piece could do quite a lot of violence in a bridge battle. :smg:

But if you are worried, you could just put the SHA in Staufen and move von Salza back east down the road to stack with Welf. The argument for putting von Salza on the bridge in the campaign map this turn is that his artillery is slow and ideally we would like to push on towards Dijon next turn. I think the SHA needs von Salza's crossbows and artillery before it can be of much use in supporting a sally by Ruppel. Sadly, this may mean infecting them.

BTW: Does anyone know what are the OOC implications of infected troops when the plague is over? Are they always contagious? ie must they ultimately be disbanded?

AussieGiant

01-15-2008, 16:42

Good thoughts Econ.

Given the AI might "awake" though, another option is to stuff the SHA back into Staufen (they are all infected anyway) and then stick Warluster on the opposite side of the Citadel to any possible French attack. Then he could come into a Citadel fight as reinforcements.

FH still has more than enough turns for a "reassessment" and second attempt at relief by Warluster and now you.

TinCow

01-15-2008, 16:44

BTW: Does anyone know what are the OOC implications of infected troops when the plague is over? Are they always contagious? ie must they ultimately be disbanded?

No, they will eventually become clean if they remain isolated for long enough. The difficulty is making sure that you don't re-infect clean troops and cities, but even this isn't so bad if you pay attention to who's clean and who isn't on the plague info scroll at the beginning of each turn.

econ21

01-15-2008, 16:51

...another option is to stuff the SHA back into Staufen (they are all infected anyway) and then stick Warluster on the opposite side of the Citadel to any possible French attack.

Good thinking. :2thumbsup:

No, they will eventually become clean if they remain isolated for long enough. The difficulty is making sure that you don't re-infect clean troops and cities, but even this isn't so bad if you pay attention to who's clean and who isn't on the plague info scroll at the beginning of each turn.

That's good to know - although I can not see a marker that identifies where a captain led stack - eg the SHA - is infected. But that won't be an issue if all our infected troops are in settlements or led by generals.

FactionHeir

01-15-2008, 17:02

I don't think a hasty decision should be made just yet. Warluster supposedly has read my PMs a few hours back, but he hasn't posted his opinions yet.

If it comes down to it, I would rather the SHA move as I had planned rather than fall back to Staufen. Considering Ruppel is officially the commander of the SHA, I believe I have that authority.

As for plagued units, if they are outside, they will stop being plagued after 5-6 turns. However their captain still remains plagued so combining that stack with any other or settlement will cause infection.

AussieGiant

01-15-2008, 18:20

That's one of the reasons I said this will be difficult to manage.

The only way to tell if a regiment is infected is to look at the commander. The regiments themselves do not have any indicator as to whether they are plagued or clean.

FH, if Warluster hasn't gotten back to you before Wednesday around 20:00 GMT +1 then please post your movement request in the orders section for the SHA.

Cheers
AG

Ferret

01-15-2008, 18:48

Also in Magdeburg if EF can't fight then Dutch-Guy or Flydude could deputise for him potentially.

uhhh is there actually a battle or are you just making a point? For now I'd like to let FlyDude fight some battles around here and Dutch Guy to fight the battles in Scandinavia so the two can develop their generals a bit further (and because I have exams :thumbsdown: )

econ21

01-15-2008, 20:35

uhhh is there actually a battle or are you just making a point?

You were asked to sally two days ago:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1803396&postcount=479

IIRC, Dutch_guy and FLYdude are still stacked with you, so either could fight the battle instead of you. But I doubt it would build up their characters (unless one of them has a command greater than Bresch's and the computer identifies them as the leader).

Cecil XIX

01-15-2008, 23:40

Also, we definitely need a version of the Defenestration of Prague. :laugh4:

Only if I can recruit Hussites from Prague afterwards. :2thumbsup:

Warluster

01-16-2008, 00:17

I missed out on a bit; sorry for the no feedback, I was watching a DVD for the last three days.

I'd say; the SHA is under joint command so FH is right, he can order it around. So you may do what you want with that. Regarding von Salza; he can tag along behind them. There aren't many more turns before Dijon, right?

FactionHeir

01-16-2008, 01:02

According to my plan, we should be able to relieve it within the next 3 turns if all goes well.
Do you want to tag alongside it or lead it? Leading it might pose the risk of death, but allows you to control the force better in battle.

gibsonsg91921

01-16-2008, 01:38

But, according to the Catholics, the people defenestrated were lowered safely to the ground by God's loving arm. We are not modding in a God's loving arm.

Ramses II CP

01-16-2008, 02:42

Okay, reading about anybody's 'loving arm' is a little creepy. Gives me that whole Pam and Tommy Lee kind of vibe. So let's leave the defenestrations to the Poles.

:thumbsdown: :clown:

:egypt:

gibsonsg91921

01-16-2008, 02:46

haha. "Pulling Teeth" by Green Day. "loving" arm of beating pain and anger. not "Dominated Love Slave" by Green Day style, like actual abuse.

GeneralHankerchief

01-16-2008, 03:51

FYI, the battle report for Milan is up:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1805690&postcount=235

_Tristan_

01-16-2008, 09:53

Hey, GH, thanks for having Hugo get some French to chew on...

AussieGiant

01-16-2008, 09:59

Well done GH. Although I can't see the screenies. Is that a problem on my side or are others experiencing the same thing?

I'd also like to state that my IC persona on handling the Reich is separate from my OOC persona. I get the impression that some are reacting to the IC "pushing persona" of Arnold in a moer OOCly way. My apologies if that is the case.

Having said that:

At this time I still don't see a clear cut move by Franconia around Magdeburg so if none of the three gentlemen concerned take the save before tonight GMT +1 that will be the end.

Likewise I still can't see any firm set of orders from Swabia (von Luxemburg is the exception), therefore the location of the SHA and von Salza (given his exposed location) will be solved by me. I'm 70% sure I will put the SHA back in Staufen and the Duke directly behind it.

I assume that this move will unfortunately impact FH's expected relief plan.

Cheers
AG

FactionHeir

01-16-2008, 10:17

Likewise I still can't see any firm set of orders from Swabia (von Luxemburg is the exception), therefore the location of the SHA and von Salza (given his exposed location) will be solved by me. I'm 70% sure I will put the SHA back in Staufen and the Duke directly behind it.

I assume that this move will unfortunately impact FH's expected relief plan.

Are you sure its not your OOC persona? :tongue2:
Because:

FH, if Warluster hasn't gotten back to you before Wednesday around 20:00 GMT +1 then please post your movement request in the orders section for the SHA.

Thats still 11 hours off.