Communicating the News of the Dead

[J.Alco]

I was watching the film We Were Soldiers the other day (OK film. Not great. Good soundtrack though) and I was in the middle of watching the scene where the soldier's wives are carrying letters communicating to civilians (Presumably because the geniuses in the army didn't realize that during military operations soldiers could die, and didn't have the decency to dispatch couriers) that their beloved husband/father/son/brother/significant other was KIA when this sudden thought hit me:

What did they do in EB's time to let the poor, huddled masses who contributed the best of their youth know that their loved ones weren't coming back home? Were the armies so organized so as to have a system of couriers who would communicate to families that their relative had been killed in a war? Did town criers read off a list of the dead when talking about the results of a given battle?

Or did the romantic thing happen, and people were informed by the best friend of the dead soldier who solemnly visited them with a sword/amulet/whatever that used to belong to the dead person and which is handed to the family (so that they would never forget him) while the friend talked long and solemnly about what a Great Guy he was, how he Fought Well, and how he Thanked God He Could Die For His Country?
:laugh4:

In all seriousness though, what do YOU think was more likely?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Most likely, the family of the common soldier didn't know whether he lived until the war was over and he came home or didn't. (I've never really researched that, that is just what I assume.)

[Alexandros Maximus]

i dont REALLY know...but my best guess is you would just figure it out when all the troops are parading and your relative doesn't show up.

[Apgad]

Well, if you don't fancy the idea of telling your wife you want a divorce, and don't want your kids to think that you just abandoned them, what better way of starting a new life somewhere else?

"OK honey, I'm off to war now. I'll see you in the autumn. Probably..."

[Frostwulf]

A very interesting topic. I do know that there was correspondence among the upper echelon of Roman armies back to their families etc. As far as the rank and file I'm curious as to how and if such information was distributed.

[pezhetairoi]

I think there was probably no way of knowing, unless a particular soldier had a close buddy who watched out for him and got him to tell the news. Otherwise there was probably just the knowledge, after the troops had returned and been disbanded, that your husband/dad/brother/son isn't back yet, and the eternal uncertainty of what might have happened to him. Though most people would probably accept after some months that their man of the family is dead. But I suppose there would have been, given the inefficiency of communication in those days, plenty of room for error, husbands returning after 10 years to find their wives remarried, things like that.

[Arzeal]

In my country (Asia one so no related to that far, but I guess it somehow works the same :book: ) there are countless stories of wives waiting for their husbands to return from wars, and of course, the husbands never return, so the wives turned to stone, or trees, and they are worshipped until now. And for those who continued to live w.o re-marriage, they sometimes got rewards from kings or nobles for their fairthful acts.

The point is I think w. conscript system I read in EB documents in-game in these civilizations, the leaders could careless about the KIA soldiers :-?

[pezhetairoi]

Hello Arzeal! Don't think I've seen you posting here before, you're from Asia? Which country?

And thing is, in those days the higher class couldn't care less about the lower ranks, except for a certain few (the so-called 'great captains', mainly) but as I see it, they only cared for them so the ranks would carry out the commander's will without query. (That is, of course, my own very cynical viewpoint)

None of them would ever go to the trouble informing families of deaths, it would take too many horses, too much time, possibly the detachment of soldiers who could be ill spared, and anyway, what cared they about deaths? The commanders only cared for living soldiers, not dead ones.

[cmacq]

Again, Archaeology may, or may not provide some clarity?

http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/4DLink2/tablet-images/leaf_thumb/311_1-front_t.jpg

part 1
Sollemnis Paridi fratri pluri-
mam salute[m
ut scias me recte ualere
quod te inuicem fecisse
cupió · homo inpientissi-
me qui mihi ne unam e-
pistulam misisti sed
putó me humanius
facere qui tibi scribó

part 2
. . . . . . .
tibi frater[..]..[
contubernalem meum
salutabis a me Diligen-
tem et Cogitatum et
Corinthum et rogó
mittas mihi nómina
traces
. . . . . . .

margin
m2?]m.
]ter
]me

back
Paridi ..luc..or.[
coh]ortis iii Batauo-
rum
a Sollemni
]....o

translation
Sollemnis to Paris his brother, very many greetings. I want you to know that I am in very good health, as I hope you are in turn, you neglectful man, who have sent me not even one letter. But I think that I am behaving in a more considerate fashion in writing to you ... to you, brother, ... my messmate. Greet from me Diligens and Cogitatus and Corinthus and I ask that you send me the names ... Farewell, dearest brother (?). (Back, 1st hand) To Paris ... of the 3rd Cohort of Batavians, from Sollemnis ..."

To answer such a question only a voice from the distant past may do?

Also see http://vindolanda.csad.ox.ac.uk/tablets/browse.shtml

[Thaatu]

Ah, Vindolanda. A unique place for archeology, where even some Roman letters survive.



My view is it went something like this:
Bob Dylan - Two Soldiers (http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/soldiers.html)

[fahrenheit]

i would think two main indications, the first being that they dont return home. and the second being a friend of the deceased person would take it upon himself to inform the family.

[Apgad]

Actually, thinking about it now I'm pretty sure I remember something about Roman armies having "funeral funds" where a portion of a soldiers pay was put aside to cover burial expenses, which could possibly have included such minutae as the notification of next of kin in the unfortunate event...

It wouldn't take too great a stretch of the imagination to suppose that any well-organised kingdom (with more than a rudimentary burocracy) would be accounting for arms, supplies, horses, and probably even soldiers. It would make sense that losses would have to be accounted for. If this didn't include personal delivery of bad news, then I'd think that lists of the dead posted in well-frequented places would be the least they could do.

[Danest]

I heard they had burial clubs or something that watched out for each other like that. And the Vindolanum (sp?) letters seem to indicate that there was a lot of literacy and correspondence (or, in my opinion, a relatively freely available scribe at the fort).

[macduro]

If we talk about Roman army after marian reforms (and maybe before it) i think that familiars will have a good chance to know if his familiar was dead . The Romans used to list the name of his men , graduation and location . They had a good administration because they have to pay their soldiers . The soldiers usually sent his money to the family or the state pay directly those familiars if it was the will of the soldier . The legions had an high degree of organization in all things that concers money ...

[cmacq]

Because of the nature of the Reforms, I think before the Marians, it would have been even more likely. Please, see Roman Law and Landholder Rights.

[Geoffrey S]

I'd be very surprised if soldiers who got to know each other, or in all likelihood due to the militia nature of earlier Roman armies who knew each other before ending up in an army, didn't have some sort of agreement to inform family of their death should it occur. A hundred or so people could quite conceivably know each other well enough to arrange that.