Family trees

[InsaneApache]

I'm doing some work on my family tree as a present to my seven grandkids.

Using my own personal knowledge and picking Maters brain, I've managed to get back to my great-great grandma who was born on Gibraltar in the mid 19th century. I'm not too sure of her last name, although I believe I have her first name. I do however have her husbands last name but not his first.

The last concrete name and place of birth I can come up with is my great-grandma born in 1874.

Fascinating stuff and quite emotional as well surprisingly.

Any other members done this? Any advice?

Cheers.

IA

[KukriKhan]

The Mormons (http://www.familysearch.org/) can often be quite helpful.

Our own Louis helped me track down the region in France where my mother's ancestors most likely hailed from - which, as you say, was both enlightening, and strangely emotional.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Interesting site Kukri - I found three people with my surname born in the 1740s and 1750s in Prussia. Since my name isn't very common anywhere, especially in Germany (oddly enough, as my family has been in Germany for hundreds of years), they may just be related.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Most people with ancestors in the UK should be able to get back to 1841 relatively easily (oops, pun not intended :embarassed: ).

The census returns are freely available at the National Archives (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/census/). However, if your ancestors are Gibraltarian rather than English by birth, it may not cover that location.

Beyond 1841, it is usually a case of parish records which can be surprisingly informative. Since people rarely moved about much back then, you can often go back several generations in one parish, unless they happen to be Catholics (Irish records are different of course, and patchier). These records can usually get you back to the 1750s, sometimes earlier.

I've helped some people search through records like this that we hold, collected from several parishes in the English estate and these go back to the 1680s. Like you, people get great fun from the process. I miss out myself, as the family pedigree is rather well documented.

[Lemur]

I haven't had to lift a finger. Turns out our family's last name is pretty rare, and some absolute maniac has built up a web-based family tree that goes back to the 1400s. Turns out we even have a coat of arms, and it's incredibly ugly. Why couldn't my ancestors petition for something cooler?

Anyway, here's the site (http://baberfamilytree.org/). Clearly the dude in charge has way too much time on his hands.

[InsaneApache]

Oh I dunno, you seem to have your 'ducks in a row'.

*glances at BQ* :laugh4:

@ BQ ta very much for that link, I already have got some of the details of my paternal grandmother from there. (She died when my dad was an infant)

[Banquo's Ghost]

I haven't had to lift a finger. Turns out our family's last name is pretty rare, and some absolute maniac has built up a web-based family tree that goes back to the 1400s. Turns out we even have a coat of arms, and it's incredibly ugly. Why couldn't my ancestors petition for something cooler?

Tsk. It's very cool. For a grant made in 1547, the arms are quite simple - by this time, most armorial creations were quite complex - the rule tends to be that simpler achievements are more ancient.

I couldn't see clearly from the photograph, but looking up the Somerset Visitation of 1623 (http://www.ukgenealogyarchives.org.uk/cgi-bin/imageserve.cgi) (go to Pedigree, and then page 5) shows them to be:

Argent, on a fess gules three eagles' heads, erased, of the field.

Translated, this means: The shield background is silver, and has a red stripe horizontally across the middle. This stripe is decorated with three torn off (erased) eagles' heads, which are in the same colour (silver) as the background.

The old tomb decoration doesn't do it justice.

It would be interesting to discover why the eagles were chosen, but this is a noble coat of arms for a mere knight (mere as in his standing at the time of grant, as one might suppose a less prestigious achievement).

You share the argent field with me. :beam:

[Justiciar]

Good move, Apache. My own mother decided to do this back when I was a wee 'un, though I've only just started to read into it. Sadly she couldn't go too far back (the earliest certain name dating to the late 1700's), and I've yet to see any detail on my father's side - all I know is it's packed with Johns.

I guarantee the grandkids will apperciate it, even if they're all grey and wrinkly when they do.

[Strike For The South]

John Procter

[Louis VI the Fat]

My family has a coat of arms too. :knight:

The animals it proudly bears are:
...Insects.~:mecry:

Really.
No I'm not kidding. :shame:

[Motep]

My family has a coat of arms too. :knight:

The animals it proudly bears are:
...Insects.~:mecry:

Really.
No I'm not kidding. :shame:

Wow...:laugh4:

[Motep]

The Mormons (http://www.familysearch.org/) can often be quite helpful.

Our own Louis helped me track down the region in France where my mother's ancestors most likely hailed from - which, as you say, was both enlightening, and strangely emotional.

Helpful my ass. (It doesn't help that the people in question live in mormon free towns....)

[RoadKill]

I've done this before. I discovered that my great grandfather was adopted so there is no possible way that I could track back to my ancestors unforunatly. Also discovering that my great-grandfather was adopted, I have no idea if I am French, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, or Scottish. I find that quite dissapointing.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Yeah, well... I like bragging about my family tree as well. Strange thing. Actually it was my paternal grandfather's uncle who managed to have his ancestry dug out. Backroom story. ~:handball:

I know 7 generations, mine included, from my father's side going up all fathers; and another 7 from my mother's side, after her going up all fathers. My father's -documented- male ancestors end up in modern Armenia and Azerbaijan. My maternal grandfather's -documented through oral tradition- male ancestors all lived in the same village beneath the southeastern coast of the Black Sea, for as long as remembered.

I hear some relatives of my paternal grandmother researched their ancestry too but I'm not sure of the accuracy of their results. Still, I can count up to 5 starting with myself. They have been the natives of my city (see: Location) for as long as known.
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[Lemur]

Translated, this means: The shield background is silver, and has a red stripe horizontally across the middle. This stripe is decorated with three torn off (erased) eagles' heads, which are in the same colour (silver) as the background.

The old tomb decoration doesn't do it justice.
I would have sworn on a stack of Bibles that it was pigeon heads on a stripe of pink on a beige field. Eagles are quite a step up.

Thanks for the link to the document, I guess I'll forward it to the guy who runs the site. (I offended him badly when I suggested in an email that "One of our relatives killed enough people or stole enough stuff to be made noble." He didn't like that one bit. Maybe sending him some links will help him hate me less. But really, come on, how do nobles become nobles in the first place? It ain't pretty, is what I'm thinking.)

So we're both silver background kinda guys, eh? Well, I'll hoist a brew to your argent, BG.

[Proletariat]

...I have no idea if I am French, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, or Scottish. I find that quite dissapointing.

Why? That's awesome. Just pick any of them and become absurdly proud of your heritage!

[Banquo's Ghost]

But really, come on, how do nobles become nobles in the first place? It ain't pretty, is what I'm thinking.)

In the British Isles, it's all a matter of timing.

Before 1483, it was largely about killing lots of people in brutal ways. This was fine, because we had a lot of civil wars between the nobility, and of course France and Ireland were available to the really ambitious.

After the Plantagenets came to their logical end, everyone became civilised. The way forward at this time was to procure women for one's monarch. France and Ireland were still available however, for the stubborn traditionalist.

Then religion was invented and this became a great way to get ennobled because anyone could be really, really intolerant with almost no learning or skill at arms at all. Unfortunately, because of this it got all out of hand and generated a civil war with dull people who didn't wear colourful hats and therefore were clearly not noble material. These dullards even went so far as to win and make a republic. They were no fun, and the common people (who liked being massacred on behalf of those aspiring to the aristocracy) got the king back PDQ.

Charles continued the old practice of ennobling the procurers of his women, but came up with a much better wheeze that continues to this day - rich sheep farmers who would pay good money.

Apart from the early 19th century when France became available again and resulted in the Duke of Wellington, the old ways have pretty much died out.

[Banquo's Ghost]

My family has a coat of arms too. :knight:

The animals it proudly bears are:
...Insects.~:mecry:


Mon ami, you seek to confuse us with your feigned modesty.

The heraldic insect is invariably the bee. Far from being a humble charge, in France it is the symbol of the most ancient royal lineage. Golden bees (in reality, they were cicadas) were discovered in 1653 in Tournai inside the tomb of Childeric I, founder in 457 of the Merovingian dynasty and father of Clovis. To be granted bees on one's acheivement denotes ancient royal blood lines.

Or, a desire to demonstrate such connections. The Emperor himself had his arms mantled with ermine, decorated with golden bees. Bees were reserved for Napoleonic grants.

I always knew our Louis was a person of consequence. :wink:

There is however, a French family with a heraldic woodlouse. :embarassed:

[Ironside]

My father's name is traced from Walllonian immigration around 1650, how it moved from there is unknown, althuogh it's suspected the originally be German.

My grandmother's (on my father's side) name is most researched that I've seen and is also traceable to around the same time (IIRC is was around 1620). Was Swedish at that time and before that it starts to get hard to trace due to lack of writtten records.

My grandmother's (on my mother's side) name is basically unknown. Actually not even remembering it atm :inquisitive: .

But my mother's name does seem to have quite a bit of history, although I haven't been in contact with the genealogist in the family, only heard in second hand. It seems to be originating from Germany in the 13:th centuary and the most famous members were residenting in Danzig during the 16:th centuary. You can find that line actually mentioned in history books.
Admittably lacking quite a bit in the actual bloodlines, but having your rare surname mentioned in history books are well quite something :book: .

[Pannonian]

Am I the only person who can trace his family back over half a millenium and every one on the list is a non-entity? There are some stories about a princess in the long distant past (think 1200+ years), which I'm sceptical about, but from the governor who first settled his family in his last district onwards, there have been no notable names nor achievements. There has been a lot of documentation though. Probably a reflection of the peace in our area for the last few hundred years or so.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Oh, forgot to mention... If you trace my roots going up all males, you end up in present day Tanzania 60,000 years ago. :yes:
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[FactionHeir]

I used to try that back in middle school for a school project. Well, my grandparents being mostly dead and my parents not even knowing the names of their ancestors (not that they didn't care, but its a cultural thing where you call your elders by their titles and not by name, ever (up until I kind of broke that I guess :grin:)) didn't quite help.

[Banquo's Ghost]

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Oh, forgot to mention... If you trace my roots going up all males, you end up in present day Tanzania 60,000 years ago. :yes:
.

You mean that you weren't seeded from space aliens like the rest of us? :alien:

[Husar]

My dad's family did a bit of this and got quite a few years back (end of 1700s IIRC) but my dad couldn't tell me what jobs the guys had, probably stupid peasant workers or so, which means my backroom posts are just fine for someone of my heritage. ~D
Don't know about my mom's family, asked a couple of times but the answers were usually vague, my grandma couldn't even tell whether her husband and her dad were soldiers in the two worldwars or not. :shrug: All I know is they fled from eastern prussia when the Russians came while my dad's family is dutch now but may have been german before, or not. :shrug:

I'm still waiting for someone to find out that I should have some nice castle but becoming rich and buying one should be faster.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Mon ami, you seek to confuse us with your feigned modesty.

The heraldic insect is invariably the bee. Far from being a humble charge, in France it is the symbol of the most ancient royal lineage. Golden bees (in reality, they were cicadas) were discovered in 1653 in Tournai inside the tomb of Childeric I, founder in 457 of the Merovingian dynasty and father of Clovis. To be granted bees on one's acheivement denotes ancient royal blood lines.

Or, a desire to demonstrate such connections. The Emperor himself had his arms mantled with ermine, decorated with golden bees. Bees were reserved for Napoleonic grants.

I always knew our Louis was a person of consequence. :wink: Good Lord, no, nothing like that. I am very proud at the complete lack of any noble blood running through my veins. Well there was this maid who worked for a certain marquis and family rumour has it that
You'll no doubt be happy to know that my family has always considered the guillotine as the final word in all thing noble. ~;)

In the British Isles, family crests are a jealously guarded noble prerogative.

Not so over here. At some point during the Ancien Régime , this being France, an ambitious civil servant of the king discovered that there were no taxes levied yet on the bearing of arms. This gross oversight was of course duly corrected. Naturally, before long, another ambitious civil servant discovered that it was of course grosly unfair that families without a coat of arms should avoid this tax. So they were forced to adopt arms. And then promptly taxed to the hilt for it. Many bourgeois French families of enough importance and wealth hence came in the possession of a coat of arms.

Thank God we corrected this ridiculous system at the Revolution. No French government ever since has dared to levy obscure taxes. https://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5066/lookaroundhe4.gif

[woad&fangs]

Some distant relative on my mom's side made a huge family tree with lots of information. One branch could be traced all the way back to the late 1500s in Austria and Bavaria. One person in that branch was supposedly a witch.

Then there's my dad's side. Legend has it that my great great something or other was from a very well off family in the Philadelphia area until he ran off with a squaw and moved to Wisconsin. He was supposedly in a little bit of trouble with the law also. Actually, I know that we share the same name as a wealthy and famous family from Philly.

[CountArach]

My Grandfather and one of his brothers has traced my family back to the 1840s, when the first of my family came to Australia (Some of them as Convicts and others as immigrants... like a comb maker). I would like to look around further when I am older and see just how far back I could go.

[Hepcat]

This is something that has interested me since I was at primary school, yet my parents have never actually bothered to ask their parents about the family at all.

I've seen a book that my Dutch grandfather has which was about his family being traced right back to the 1400s but neither he, nor I can understand it because it's in Dutch. :laugh4:
Although 1450 something was the earliest date I found in it. It also listed my grandfather and his sibling's names on the last page which at least makes sure that it is the same family. Because from what I know Geerlings is a rather common lower class name. ~D

I was talking to my Kiwi grandmother around Christmas time about her family which nobody has ever asked her about before and I learnt that her father's family were some of the first Europeans to settle in the Rotorua region of New Zealand and so it was my ancestors who founded this city. She also said that her uncle fought in the ANZAC forces during WWI where he was gassed and he still had lots of trouble breathing whenever they went to see him (he lived in a hut near the Rotorua railway because he worked with the trains). Her father was in the NZ Home Guard during WWII because he had a family and a job so he wasn't eligible for active sevice. Her mother was Australian and we don't know much more than that. One of her grandparents was born in Rotorua too and one of the motels on Fenton St is built over the house of her grandparents. Also the parents of her grandparent who was born in Rotorua (I can't remember if she said it was her grandfather or grandmother) were here during the massive Tarawera Eruption (https://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l182/Hepcat_2006/TWF/tarawera.jpg) which wiped out the settlement in 1886. She thinks that on her fathers side the family goes right back to some of the early colonists/traders/convicts/missionaries who came to NZ around the 1830s and 40s which isn't that far fetched.

I was also talking to my British grandmother around Christmas and she has done a lot of work in looking into the family history of her side and the side of my Kiwi grandfather who died a few years ago. She's told me that next time she sees me she'll show me what she's found.

But basically as far as I know I'm not nobility and instead come from a long line of working class people.

[Mouzafphaerre]

You mean that you weren't seeded from space aliens like the rest of us? :alien:
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That part is a family secret. :skull:
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[Motep]

I did some researching, and it led to the fact that im anglo-saxon. From most angles. Both english reps of these families had become nobles under William, and there everything becomes hazy untill you have a Craig and Fender family mining in a small town, and there kids hook up and find me under a log somewhere. (I think it was that i congealed from a fungus...:cheesy: ).

I do know that my great grandfather's cousin was Leo Fender. (look him up)

[Paradox]

That site is bound to be very innacurate.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Which? :inquisitive:
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[Motep]

More extensive research has led to the conclusion that My great-great-great Grandpa was James Monroe Fender. As to my great-great and great, they remain a mystery to me, but I may ask my grandfather if I ever get a hold of him. Now, as to my father's side, I cannot say, for he was adopted, and his birt family are a bunch of asses and evade all efforts of contact.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Good Lord, no, nothing like that. I am very proud at the complete lack of any noble blood running through my veins. Well there was this maid who worked for a certain marquis and family rumour has it that
You'll no doubt be happy to know that my family has always considered the guillotine as the final word in all thing noble. ~;)

My neck is itching in memoriam. :embarassed:


In the British Isles, family crests are a jealously guarded noble prerogative.

Not so over here. At some point during the Ancien Régime , this being France, an ambitious civil servant of the king discovered that there were no taxes levied yet on the bearing of arms. This gross oversight was of course duly corrected. Naturally, before long, another ambitious civil servant discovered that it was of course grosly unfair that families without a coat of arms should avoid this tax. So they were forced to adopt arms. And then promptly taxed to the hilt for it. Many bourgeois French families of enough importance and wealth hence came in the possession of a coat of arms.

Thank God we corrected this ridiculous system at the Revolution. No French government ever since has dared to levy obscure taxes. https://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5066/lookaroundhe4.gif

:yes:

Only the British invented a whole new system of bureaucracy to control arms. When my ancestor came over from France in the 1300s, the newly forming heraldic authority had a fit when they discovered about thirty seven other French families were using broadly the same arms. No wonder we got turned over at Poitiers, no-one had the faintest clue who was on our side. :knight:

[KukriKhan]

Apparently one of my Irish ancestors did something to warrant granting a family crest (a blue boar on white, with 3 red crosses), but I've never found out any details, other than they were from Roscommon and migrated to Cork. On this side of the pond, they were farmers.

People with Mom's surname hailed from a small town in Normandy - over here they were shopkeepers, trappers and laborers.

Aren't the 1300's about as far back as one can go (excepting nobility, who had chroniclers) for Europeans, surnames not being adopted 'til around then? Asian surnames, OTOH can be traceable way back BCE, yes?

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Surnames were invented and forced upon people's throats in 1930's here in Turkey. Especially those with ethnicity were deliberately given surnames including "Türk" in it. But before that gentry and influential peasant families had their names. Initially their usage were banished but afterwards that was eased a little bit.

There are aristocratic families that can trace their roots back to pre-Ottoman times. But most of the time surnames are just meaningless and you can have multiple ones in a family.
My maternal grandfather, urged by my nationalist uncle, changed the whole family's surname; all the relatives, comprising the greatest clanlike family in the village, including the children and grandchildren of my grandfather's siblings, have a different one. When I need to introduce myself to someone of the region, I use their surname as reference ("We are of the XXXs"). My paternal grandmother's brethren had taken different surnames. The greater all-male-side family of my father has a different surname than our small branch, whose surname was given by Kemal himself... Even more interesting; I have a couple Danish cousins, the younger not speaking Turkish. He has double given names (Danish and Turkish) as well as double surnames to fit them (one of his late Turkish father and of his Danish mother).

Kurds have clan names which scarcely match their surnames. Aristocratic clans can trace their ancestry quite far backwards. Similar case exists for the Türkmen (Turcoman) clans; they can trace their roots back to legends.
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[Tribesman]

Mothers side fascinating stuff , htey ain't welsh at all just moved up with the demand for stonework, go back eventually to west moon .Fathers side , f/all before they became yanks and had thier name changed .
Wifes family ..... hey its history book stuff .:shrug:

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I've started using the Geni program to map my family tree. So far I have it mapped back to my great-grandparents on my father's side. I've started contacting others in my family as well, especially on my mother's side, to see what they know. I have twenty-eight people on it so far, including all of my great-uncles on my father's side.