EB with Vista

[TunaMaker]

Hi folks, I did a search on this topic but couldn't find anything very helpful. I recently bought a new computer that came with vista. When I installed RTW somehow the preferences folder and text file were not created. This doesn't seem to cause vanilla rome any problems, because it ran with no problem yet when I run EB it CTDs when I try to start a campaign. I don't know if the lack of preferences causes this or not. Also, I did install BI before installing EB. Could this be what the problem is? Does anyone have any advice? Anyone go through this before? Thanks.

TM

[Elthore]

bahahaahah, vista does stupid things like hiding application created files in specific system folders. Try a search, remebering to include ALL files. If that fails, find your old copy of XP and install that. vista wont get anywhere near my new laptop

[Lucasiewicz]

I'm running on the Vista OS and I don't seem to have any problem with playing RTW or EB.

[cluelessnewbie]

The problem is that Rome Total War, like many older programs, assumes that it is running with administrative privileges and blindly writes into the program files directory. Microsoft has been trying for years to get software developers to stop doing this and write settings and user files into the user directory. This is done for security and other operating systems use this model too.

The default user account you are set up with in Vista says "Administrator" but it really isn't. The programs you run aren't normally given administrative privileges unless you give permission via a UAC prompt. In order to avod breaking programs like RTW that insist on writing into Program Files Vista will shunt anything it tries to write there into a directory in the user folder.

This doesn't work perfectly though. If a program tries to writes a new file into Program Files then it should work transparently. But if the program tries to overwrite an existing file then nothing can be done about it. An example where this breaks RTW are the historical battles in the Alexander expansion pack. RTW tries to overwrite an existing file in order to unlock the next battle, but it doesn't work and you can't get past the first one.

There might be other bugs like that which I don't know about so the best thing to do is run Rome and other Total War games with administrative permissions. You can do this by right clicking on the program icon and you can set it up to always run like that in the compatibility tab in the properties menu. It will mean you have to click a UAC promplt to start the program. I recommend you do not turn UAC off because it's key to the entire security architecture. Personally, I like it. It's much easier than trying to run as a limited user under Windows XP was.

Anyways, we wouldn't have to worry about any of this if software developers would learn to program correctly. If you need someplace to direct your ire. There you go. :sweatdrop:

[Tellos Athenaios]

Gah I simply turned UAC off. If I am admin I want to feel I have admin powers.

A simple solution would be to re-install RTW under your Admin account User folder. Have not seen any such Vista weirdness; and I myself have installed it under my own account.


---

Side note to the above post: actually, software with dynamically generated files would not be very easy to pass all the security scrutiny. (Recall this file is (re-)generated every time you adjust your settings. So either the game needs to ping for admin-approval every time (en passant preventing the entire PC from running any further...) -- or there would be some file structure trickery involved (i.e. the dynamically updated content would be stored somewhere outside the main program structure) which isn't a very clean solution either. That aside; the code of RTW is not very clean: else that infamous Memory-Leak-Bug would not appear.)

[TunaMaker]

Cluelessnewbie & Tellos Athenaios - So does this mean I should reinstall RTW into another folder, like "myGames" folder? Would this stop Vista from freaking out about another program writing to the program files? Thanks for the responses.

TM

[PanzadeBuda]

My problem with Vista is: RTW works fine, buy EB works without scrip. :wall: no Mario´s reform :wall:. People......How much I hate Vista!!!!. By the way, Do you Know that Bill and Melinda Gates will be the next Novel Peace Price?

[cluelessnewbie]

I used to run Windows Xp with limited privileges, so UAC is awesome for me, but I definitely understand how frustrating it is to people considering it hasn't been explained well at all. All dynamically created program files and individual user files should go into the user directory or the home directory, no matter what operating system you're using. This way user accounts are kept separate and security can be maintained. Hopefully most Windows software developers have caught on by now. (Btw, this security model has been in Linux since the begnning.)

It takes me less than a second to click the thing and the only time I really see it is when I play any Total War game anyways. To Tunamaker, if you put Rome Total War in your user directory then you shouldn't have any problems with privileges or anything. It should work fine. I've played EB under Vista, giving it no privileges, and it seems to work just fine like that too. I just run it under administrator out of a sense of caution and because it's really no big deal to do so.

[Hooahguy]

By the way, Do you Know that Bill and Melinda Gates will be the next Novel Peace Price?

hey, the guy gives million, if not billions to charities all over..... dont insult the man.... hes better than most of us..... (in regards to generosity) :whip:

[I Am Herenow]

Edit

[Tellos Athenaios]

C:\Users\[Your Account Name]\[Your preferred RTW location]

For instance:

C:\Users\Admin\Games\Rome Total War

-----------------------

[I Am Herenow]

Thanks :beam:

[overweightninja]

Uh I hate to throw a spanner in the works here, you sure UAC is the answer?
Only reason I say, after browsing through these posts notice it's a little different to my experiences.
Running vista, I have RTW, BI and EB installed without being in a user folder (C:\Games\RTW\ to be precise). I have UAC on , but have never had to give RTW admin priveledges, run in compatibility or anything. What's more I also have XP 64 installed too and EB runs perfectly happily in that just by launching from the direct from the same exe.
Of course I might just be lucky :)
Oh and by the way, you're better off going back to XP or at least dual booting, DX10 is an absolute waste of time right now :2thumbsup:
Cheers

[I Am Herenow]

Edit

[overweightninja]

I hope this isn't too off topic but imho....
Vista takes more resources for itself than XP, as far as new features go, they're all pretty specific and can be found elsewhere, done better, and usually for free, and the only real reason to upgrade was DirectX10 being exclusive to Vista. However DX10 has yet to show off anything that cannot be done in DX9.
Whats more there are the inevitable compatibility and stability problems that come with any new OS (give those a couple of service packs to sort out).
I use Vista for day to day stuff because its pleasant enough to use when its behaving, and I thought it better to get a OEM version included in the price of my new rig than pay three hundred quid or whatever the silly prices for it are later on. However as I mentioned I also have XP installed for gaming etc so I can live with it.
Vista is bound to be needed later on as it takes over from XP, but until its sorted and actually necessary I wouldn't bother, depends on your needs I guess though (I'm picky :D).
Cheers

[I Am Herenow]

Thanks! :2thumbsup:

[overweightninja]

Mate I don't want to get too off topic here so I'll answer your questions, if you have any further please ask elsewhere in the forum or give me a PM :)

Anyway, firstly, OEM editions of software or hardware are basically "bare bones" versions for computer manufacturers or people who don't need the extras. They are cheaper than regular versions but don't have for instance extra documentation, packaging, perhaps cables etc in the case of hardware. In short OEM products are usually purchased by manufacturers or home users who don't need the extra bits and want to save some money.

For information on the differing versions of windows, check this link:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/default.mspx
A mate of mine got ultimate for free (well, until Microsoft found out about it :laugh4:), and the difference really isn't worth the extra expensive IMHO. With a new computer you should be able to get home premium with relatively little extra expense.

As far as 32-bit and 64-bit versions go, thats a bit more complicated.
64 bit software is designed to be used with a dual core processor.
A 64-bit OS will allow you to take advantage of the full power of your CPU, however again there are stability and compatibility issues, and there isn't a huge amount of support anyway (most new games and apps run in 32bit anyway, so the extra speed is lost).
32-bit is the good old fasioned variety. Better stability, but if you're using a dual or quad core processor it'll mean you wont be able to use the full potential. If you have a single core processor (unlikely with a new pc nowdays), you will have to use 32-bit.
EDIT
Oh and btw, I haven't used Vista 64-bit, I have a friend who's had no problems with it whatsoever, and another with no end of trouble though, I suppose it depends on you're setup and what you're doing with it, vague I know I'm sorry :(

Again it depends what you need it for, personally my XP install is 64-bit and I have no problems with it, however that being said I haven't used an application that actually runs in 64bit anyway (even modern games like Call of Duty 4 and Crysis only run in 32bit).

I believe that Microsoft will allow you to upgrade from a 32bit version to a 64 bit version using the same cd key, hence why they are the same price. Personally I think if you're not fussed about getting the absolute possible fastest speed out of your rig (and for day to day computing there is little need), stick with 32-bit and then upgrade later when the software supports it better. I would check this though, not sure if it would be the same in other countries etc and its expensive enough just having to buy one copy of vista
:laugh4:

Finally I haven't seen a service pack for vista yet, only regular patches and updates.

Hope that helps, cheers.

[TunaMaker]

I've reinstalled RTW and EB into the user folder and everything appears to work fine now. I was able to get in a few turns yesterday. Thanks for the replies and input folks, its much appreciated.

TM