Obama the family man

[ICantSpellDawg]

Now that Obama has proven his viability, let's talk about his family life. I've seen his beautiful wife and 2 beautiful daughters, but what about the people that raised him?

Hillary has her mother at her side, Romney talks about his dad all the time. So who are the people responsible for the upbringing of our newest contender?

Here are the people who raised him.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-03/28585926.jpg
Mother, step-father, step-sister, and Barack

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-03/28585964.jpg
Mother, Grandfather, half-Sister, and Barack

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-03/28585944.jpg
Sis

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-03/28585910.jpg
Barack & sis

http://www.classicalvalues.com/ObamaGrad.jpg
grandparents at his highschool graduation

http://www.classicalvalues.com/ObamaGramps.jpg
grandparents

Looks like my family

https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/904/l6df96e789db71e809bbe8cmh9.jpg

[Don Corleone]

I think your point is that culturally speaking, he's no more black than you or I? Don't kid yourself. There's a large portion of this country's population that will take one look at him and say to themselves "Negro" or something nowhere near as pleasant. Growing up and living in the world like that is bound to color your views (no pun intended). I'm sure he identifies himself internally as black, mainly because that's the way the world he has known has viewed him.

[Odin]

I think your point is that culturally speaking, he's no more black than you or I? Don't kid yourself. There's a large portion of this country's population that will take one look at him and say to themselves "Negro" or something nowhere near as pleasant. Growing up and living in the world like that is bound to color your views (no pun intended). I'm sure he identifies himself internally as black, mainly because that's the way the world he has known has viewed him.

Really Don must you have such a jaded view?

I used to have the same thoughts here in Mass, then Deval came along and actually wiped my cynical view away.

Its not like he's al sharpton or jesse jackson. Come on Don the archie bunkers of the world are dying out, its now up to clowns like you and me from "generation X" to blaze a new path. :thumbsup:

[Don Corleone]

I agree that we're getting better all the time. But don't forget, I lived in North Carolina for 7 years. And people never fail to surprise you. Just when you think we've all progressed into the 20th century, somebody will make a comment or tell a joke that makes you realize that it's not all race-baiting, there really is predjudice out there.

Aside from which, Barrack grew up with a white mother in Chicago in the late 60's, early 70's. Just how much open-mindedness and tolerance do you think he experienced?

I'm not saying we need to ramp up affirmative action, or that the man is holding the brothers back. I'm saying that Barrack's more black than the OP would have you believe.

And didn't Jesse Jackson come through for the Clinton's with his "Barrack's not really black" speech?

[ICantSpellDawg]

I think your point is that culturally speaking, he's no more black than you or I? Don't kid yourself. There's a large portion of this country's population that will take one look at him and say to themselves "Negro" or something nowhere near as pleasant. Growing up and living in the world like that is bound to color your views (no pun intended). I'm sure he identifies himself internally as black, mainly because that's the way the world he has known has viewed him.

Yes, but he also grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia. There, the "minority" is the majority. I believe that racial discrimination during the 1960's and 70's in Jakarta and Honolulu would be very different from the discrimination in mainland United States.

What I'm trying to say is that Obama is more white than he is black... and a little southeast asian for good measure. The people who raised him were white and his philosophies were minimally impacted by the "american black experience".

[Fragony]

So he was adopted, is he scared they call him a bounty? What about his familylife, that is something I never understood about americans that stuff is private. It would be considered extremily impolite to bring up here.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Yes, but he also grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia. There, the "minority" is the majority. I believe that racial discrimination during the 1960's and 70's in Jakarta and Honolulu would be very different from the discrimination in mainland United States.

What I'm trying to say is that Obama is more white than he is black... and a little southeast asian for good measure. The people who raised him were white and his philosophies were minimally impacted by the "american black experience".


P.S. - I've lived in Texas, there they hated Catholics even in the late 80's. I dislike Obama for his policies. I have quite alot in common with his upbringing. I've spent some time in Jakarta and Honolulu myself with Hispanic and black siblings.

[Don Corleone]

Now the part about growing up in Jakarta/Honolulu I did not know, and I think that matters far more in terms of his cultural identity. I thought he grew up in Chicago.

Aside from which, I don't get the sense from Obama that he's a black man running for president. I get the impression that he's a man running for president who happens to be black. I don't see him playing the race card.

[Marshal Murat]

I agree with Don's sentiment. It's more a man running for President, who happens to be African-American than the reverse.

[Andres]

What's the relevancy of his family life in the context of the elections? Why is it so important that his mother/father/sister/brother is/are black/white/red/yellow/brown with orange dots?

:inquisitive:

Like Fragony already said, that stuff is private.

[Lemur]

George F. Will has already been over this ground, and he did it better than any of us. I'll re-link here (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/12/obama_transcents_racial_confin.html), and I'll repost some of the relevant stuff:


Since the 1960s, to "be black" has, Steele says, required blacks to embrace "a deterministic explanation of black difficulty," a determinism that "automatically blames and obligates white power for black problems." It is, Steele charges, condescending of Obama not to use himself, and especially "his exposure from infancy on to mainstream culture," as "a measure of black possibility."

This, says Steele, could be Obama's "Promethean fire, his special gift to his times." But "thus far, Obama is the very opposite of a Reaganlike conviction politician." This is because Obama has chosen to resolve his ambiguous racial identity by embracing the social determinism and identity politics of post-'60s black dogmas. Hence he is a "bound man." He is "bound against himself" because he "has fit himself into the world by often taking his experience out of account."

Steele has brilliantly dissected the intellectual perversities that present blacks as dependent victims, reduced to trading on their moral blackmail of whites who are eager to be blackmailed in exchange for absolution. But Steele radically misreads Obama, missing his emancipation from those perversities. Obama seems to understand America's race fatigue, the unbearable boredom occasioned by today's stale politics generally, and especially by the perfunctory theatrics of race. [...]

Steele notes that Obama "seems to have little talent for anger." But that is because Obama has opted out of the transaction Steele vigorously deplores. The political implications of this transcendence of confining categories are many, profound and encouraging.

[ICantSpellDawg]

What's the relevancy of his family life in the context of the elections? Why is it so important that his mother/father/sister/brother is/are black/white/red/yellow/brown with orange dots?

:inquisitive:

Like Fragony already said, that stuff is private.

In the Netherlands maybe. Here it is par for the course.

Over there, don't you guys have a parliamentary democracy under the auspices of a monarchy?

You guys don't elect heads of state. Here we do and they are supposed to be all-around representatives of the American people.

Their personality, record, beliefs and family life are all part of the mix.

[ICantSpellDawg]

George F. Will has already been over this ground, and he did it better than any of us. I'll re-link here (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/12/obama_transcents_racial_confin.html), and I'll repost some of the relevant stuff:


Since the 1960s, to "be black" has, Steele says, required blacks to embrace "a deterministic explanation of black difficulty," a determinism that "automatically blames and obligates white power for black problems." It is, Steele charges, condescending of Obama not to use himself, and especially "his exposure from infancy on to mainstream culture," as "a measure of black possibility."

This, says Steele, could be Obama's "Promethean fire, his special gift to his times." But "thus far, Obama is the very opposite of a Reaganlike conviction politician." This is because Obama has chosen to resolve his ambiguous racial identity by embracing the social determinism and identity politics of post-'60s black dogmas. Hence he is a "bound man." He is "bound against himself" because he "has fit himself into the world by often taking his experience out of account."

Steele has brilliantly dissected the intellectual perversities that present blacks as dependent victims, reduced to trading on their moral blackmail of whites who are eager to be blackmailed in exchange for absolution. But Steele radically misreads Obama, missing his emancipation from those perversities. Obama seems to understand America's race fatigue, the unbearable boredom occasioned by today's stale politics generally, and especially by the perfunctory theatrics of race. [...]

Steele notes that Obama "seems to have little talent for anger." But that is because Obama has opted out of the transaction Steele vigorously deplores. The political implications of this transcendence of confining categories are many, profound and encouraging.

That is a good review of what he represents. He has the opportunity to help us get out of traditional racial politics. I hope he does just that, but so far he seems to present himself as a black man from King Jr.'s vein. I think he is a competent candidate with an interesting background and should capitalize on his own ethnic mishmosh history.

[Andres]

In the Netherlands maybe. Here it is par for the course.

Over there, don't you guys have a parliamentary democracy under the auspices of a monarchy?

You guys don't elect heads of state. Here we do and they are supposed to be all-around representatives of the American people.

Their personality, record, beliefs and family life are all part of the mix.

I live in Belgium. We have a Constitutional Monarchy. The King doesn't have any real political power, but still has some political influence. He is supposed to always stay politcally neutral, but sometimes the Royal Family makes an, eh, "mistake"...

I'd prefer a President over a King.

But still, private life is what it says: it's private. I feel uncomfortable when the colour of the skin of a candidate's mother influences the decision on who is going to become one of the most powerful men/women in the world.

[Xiahou]

I agree that we're getting better all the time. But don't forget, I lived in North Carolina for 7 years. And people never fail to surprise you. Just when you think we've all progressed into the 20th century, somebody will make a comment or tell a joke that makes you realize that it's not all race-baiting, there really is predjudice out there.Personally, I think he's just as likely or more likely to get votes because he's black than he is to lose them. Look at Iowa- the state is over 90% white, yet he won handily. His race clearly wasn't much of a problem there.

Personally, I don't care what sex/race/religion someone is. I care about their policies.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I live in Belgium. We have a Constitutional Monarchy. The King doesn't have any real political power, but still has some political influence. He is supposed to always stay politcally neutral, but sometimes the Royal Family makes an, eh, "mistake"...

I'd prefer a President over a King.

But still, private life is what it says: it's private. I feel uncomfortable when the colour of the skin of a candidate's mother influences the decision on who is going to become one of the most powerful men/women in the world.

He is talking about who he is and has been throughout his campaign. It seems as though he is leaving out his roots and most people think of him as something he is not. He could easily remedy this situation by being inclusive. It worked for Tiger woods.

Personally I care about the entirety of someones life and philosophical evolution when they are asking for my vote to put them in charge of the most powerful nation on earth. I don't think it's too much to ask.

[Ronin]

In the Netherlands maybe. Here it is par for the course.

Over there, don't you guys have a parliamentary democracy under the auspices of a monarchy?

You guys don't elect heads of state. Here we do and they are supposed to be all-around representatives of the American people.

Their personality, record, beliefs and family life are all part of the mix.

I don´t think it´s a matter of electing a head of state or not....I think it´s another of those American/European dichotomies

here in Portugal we elect the heads of state and nobody brings up their personal life...

[ICantSpellDawg]

I don´t think it´s a matter of electing a head of state or not....I think it´s another of those American/European dichotomies

here in Portugal we elect the heads of state and nobody brings up their personal life...

Here in the United States it is important. I respect your right not to ask any personal question of your leaders.

I also respect the right of Americans to find out whether Prescott Bush was a nazi sympathizer or not - if so, maybe it had an impact on George senior's personal views. I also want voters to see which candidates are coming from a grassroots position, but maybe didn't have a grassroots upbringing. Mitt Romney uses his father's influence in his life in his quest for the white house. I should be able to question who his father was, what his influences might have been and what I believe it might mean for his son.

This information can help a voter make a more informed decision about whom they are voting for. My parental guidance helped decide who I am. Find out their opinions and you will have a deeper insight into mine.

[Fragony]

I live in Belgium. We have a Constitutional Monarchy. The King doesn't have any real political power, but still has some political influence. He is supposed to always stay politcally neutral, but sometimes the Royal Family makes an, eh, "mistake"...

Not just your royals please go. With the exception of Queen Margrethe II of Denmark who has to be one of the coolest persons on earth.

[Fragony]

Here in the United States it is important. I respect your right not to ask any personal question of your leaders.

It's a pretty odd difference, I don't even know what the PM's wife looks like. Most politicians are married probably, no idea. Nobody cares here.

[Goofball]

Personally, I think he's just as likely or more likely to get votes because he's black than he is to lose them. Look at Iowa- the state is over 90% white, yet he won handily. His race clearly wasn't much of a problem there.

I agree. This doesn't bode well for Hillary going into South Carolina, where the majority of Democrat voters are African American. If she doesn't win New Hampshire before (I assume) losing South Carolina, it could be the beginning of the end for her...

[Husar]

This information can help a voter make a more informed decision about whom they are voting for.
And on a sidenote, that's why you have surveillance and governments sping on you because it allows them to make a better informed decision on who to arrest next. ~D

[ICantSpellDawg]

And on a sidenote, that's why you have surveillance and governments sping on you because it allows them to make a better informed decision on who to arrest next. ~D

This is different. They can volunteer the info. If they don't want to then it is their prerogative.

Personally, I doubt that I could get near the president before they did a background check on me. We shouldn't let someone get near the presidency without doing a background check on them.

No?

[KukriKhan]

Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff
This information can help a voter make a more informed decision about whom they are voting for.

2004 BBC article about the Kenyan branch of the family (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3581746.stm).

Obama Sr & Jr, 1970's:

https://jimcee.homestead.com/obamaJrSr.jpg

Senior became a Harvard-educated economist after his divorce from Jr's Mom, working for the Kenya gov't, 'til he died in a car wreck 1982.

Honolulu Advertiser article about Obama's time in Honolulu. (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/dailypix/2007/Feb/10/FPI702100346AR_b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Feb/10/ln/FP702100346.html&h=400&w=325&sz=156&hl=en&start=4&sig2=LI1xELnyIJk-yfk_PrvGFw&um=1&tbnid=GDHy3b8AyqWeSM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=101&ei=pt9-R46-Co3ahQPJvNWCBw&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBarack%2BObama,%2BSr.%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGIH_enUS220US220%26sa %3DN)

His step-Dad, Soetoro (who his Mom met at U-H) worked for the Indonesian government and later a U.S. oil company before he and she divorced in the late 1970s. Soetoro died of a liver ailment in 1987 at age 51.

So, before he was 18, his Uni student-Mom had married and divorced twice, and moved residences (and countries) 2 or 3 times. In the old days, folks would say he came from "broken homes", but without the poverty that often attended such circumstance. Oddly, Senator Obama and I lived in Honolulu at the same time (me: '74-'79); I wonder if we ever met. Probably not. He was a teen, I a mid-20's GI.

So, if the circumstances of one's upbringing informs onlookers about one's character, I'd have to characterize his early life as... diverse. Not a lot of male influence. Interesting that he travelled to Kenya to look up his Dad's family. Almost as though he sought that male influence - both his Dad & step-Dad dying before he was 30.

Whether he makes it to the Oval Office or not, his life-story would make an interesting movie.

[PanzerJaeger]

At the risk of being reprimanded, I will restate my opinions on the subject.

As a republican, I can only be glad that the leading democratic candidates are a female and a black man.

While its an ugly reality, I believe there are many people who would usually not vote who will come out to vote against either candidate. There are also a number of conservative democrats (still), who won't be able to ignore this.

While these factors won't hurt them in the primaries(and may even help them), the general election will be far different.

The majority of Americans simply do not want a black president, no matter how white he acts. On the one hand you have the ghetto culture that dominates within that community that is detested, and on the other hand you have the corruption of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and all sorts of other "reverends". Most white people and by far most hispanics will not trust a black man.

Racism? Definitely. Realistic? :yes:

[AntiochusIII]

Racism? Definitely. Realistic? :yes:Cynical much?

And I think you'll find that many of us will throw our support behind him precisely to combat this ugly reality. Especially if the opposition happens to be that moralist scumbag Huckabee, who's running on a platform that stand against, oh, everything I ever hold dear. :dizzy2:

It's not like Obama's ever going to win any substantial votes from the Evangelical block. Not even if starting tomorrow he's a Born-Again Christian with a heart bigger than Jesus Christ.

[CountArach]

While its an ugly reality, I believe there are many people who would usually not vote who will come out to vote against either candidate. There are also a number of conservative democrats (still), who won't be able to ignore this.
Yes, but what about the people who are black and/or a woman and don't usually vote, but will come out in support of either candidate? You do realise that half the population are female, don't you?

[Lemur]

Let me just ask you straight up, Panzer -- can you envision any situation in which you would vote for a black man if a white man was running against him? Just curious.

[PanzerJaeger]

Cynical much?

And I think you'll find that many of us will throw our support behind him precisely to combat this ugly reality. Especially if the opposition happens to be that moralist scumbag Huckabee, who's running on a platform that stand against, oh, everything I ever hold dear. :dizzy2:

It's not like Obama's ever going to win any substantial votes from the Evangelical block. Not even if starting tomorrow he's a Born-Again Christian with a heart bigger than Jesus Christ.


Hmm.. Obama Vs Huckabee? I think I'd join you! I saw a bumpersticker today that echoed my opinion in just two words... F--- Huck :beam:

Any other of the Republican candidates and Obama just becomes a very liberal politician with little experience, who happens to be charismatic. Charisma is good for popularity, and not much more...

[KukriKhan]

While these factors won't hurt them in the primaries(and may even help them), the general election will be far different.


Most white people and by far most hispanics will not trust a black man.

I think both of those conclusions are incorrect. They over-emphasize the media-driven stereotypes of black, white, and brown voters/citizens, and give little regard or respect to the electorate's ability, as a whole, to pick the person they think best serves their interests. This, setting aside the intracacies of the Electoral College procedure we use.

But I guess we'll see this summer and fall.

Out of curiosity: are you registered to vote? When is your state's primary?

[PanzerJaeger]

Let me just ask you straight up, Panzer -- can you envision any situation in which you would vote for a black man if a white man was running against him? Just curious.

Hmm.. I can't think of a black male politician I would currently support for any major office. Condoleeza wouldn't have any problems snagging my vote if she decided to run though... :shrug:

Its all about culture, not color. I live in a city that is overwhelmingly black, and the "ghetto culture", "urban culture", or whatever you want to call it dominates. This is a predominantly recent black phenomenon, but now includes people of all races. I would elaborate, but it is not allowed here at the .org.

People like Condaleeza Rice, Colon Powell, and Barak Obama do not embrace the culture and I have no problem with them as people, although I staunchly disagree with Barak's ideology.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Every time I see Obama, I think "white guy in black-face"

[Strike For The South]

If the man can lead he can lead. I dont care if he has a coke habit and beats his wife. I dont care if hes purple and yellow just give me a damn president

Churchill
Jefferson
Franklin

[Sjakihata]

Not just your royals please go. With the exception of Queen Margrethe II of Denmark who has to be one of the coolest persons on earth.

She smokes cigarettes and has an ugly husband, go the Queen!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Every time I see Obama, I think "white guy in black-face"

You don't think "hey, this guy doesn't act according to the stereotype for his skin color, maybe I shouldn't use these stereotypes"?

[Fragony]

She smokes cigarettes and has an ugly husband, go the Queen!

She's smart and she is funny, and yeah a notorious chimney. Danish royal family is different they got cojones, they had them in WW2 and they have them now. God bless the queen.

[Tribesman]

I would elaborate, but it is not allowed here at the .org.
Now that might be a little clue as to why your views are bollox .
If you cannot elaborate on your racist views to explain them more clearly without violating the simple forum rules then it shows that those views have no basis other than bigotry .

[ICantSpellDawg]

Now that might be a little clue as to why your views are bollox .
If you cannot elaborate on your racist views to explain them more clearly without violating the simple forum rules then it shows that those views have no basis other than bigotry .

Bigotry may have its own basis. One clearly established in logic.

I think that the whole idea that the only person who can bring change is Obama BECAUSE he is a "black" man is faulty. That is part of the endemic problem - we judge people's resolve and ideology based on the color of their skin. Wasn't the idea to get away from that kind of thinking?

[Geoffrey S]

I think that the whole idea that the only person who can bring change is Obama BECAUSE he is a "black" man is faulty. That is part of the endemic problem - we judge people's resolve and ideology based on the color of their skin. Wasn't the idea to get away from that kind of thinking?
Can't say I've seen that being said. Impression I got is that he's doing a good job of not making a campaign issue of his skin colour.

[Lemur]

I thought that prejudice, by definition, means that you're making up your mind before you have evidence; you are pre-judging. So it seems kinda weird to talk about bigotry having a logical basis.

Maybe you mean that judgments of groups may have a basis in reality? That stereotypes, while a simplistic caricature, are nevertheless drawn from a true-life figure?

Anyway, I'm not sure it matters. Obama has not been pitching himself as a black candidate, and I don't believe that's the central pillar of his appeal. I also find it hard to believe he could win so decisively in Iowa with nothing stronger than an appeal to white guilt and Magical Negroism.

The dude won fair and square, and he did so in the face of the Clinton machine. Give the man his due.

[Tribesman]

Bigotry may have its own basis. One clearly established in logic.
If there was logic in the views then there would be no trouble elaborating on them in a normal forum without breaking forum rules , since Panzer says he cannot elaborate within those simple rules then that clearly rules out the "logical bigotry" angle doesn't it .:yes:

[Geoffrey S]

To be fair to Panzer, I did see a post of his on the subject a few weeks back which was deleted, which in my opinion remained within board regulations.

Perhaps clearing the post with moderators before posting is an idea?

[ICantSpellDawg]

If there was logic in the views then there would be no trouble elaborating on them in a normal forum without breaking forum rules , since Panzer says he cannot elaborate within those simple rules then that clearly rules out the "logical bigotry" angle doesn't it .:yes:


I am allowed to say that sharks are dangerous and to be avoided in general. Markers of this danger are certain types of fins in the water. Now, you don't need to jump out of the water whenever you see a fin, but it is a safe bet to do so, no? This reality doesn't stop me from keeping fish as pets or swimming with dolphins however.

What is logic worth if it doesn't keep you safe from harm? The truly logical does just that.

[Tribesman]

Now, you don't need to jump out of the water whenever you see a fin, but it is a safe bet to do so, no?
Errr....no , with logic like that when you make a bet I am sure your bookie is a very rich man .


What is logic worth if it doesn't keep you safe from harm?
To work on what you have given in that post , it would be logical if you had just watched Jaws , believed it to be true and had no other input to base your logic upon .

So to alter this.....
I am allowed to say that sharks are dangerous and to be avoided in general....to.....
You are allowed to say that some sharks under some circumstances can be dangerous and under circumstances where they might be dangerous they should be avoided .
See then you can add "logical" just like that , not as you did as your generalisation was innacurate .
Hey to apply the actions of some sharks to all sharks is illogical , and since there are other marine creatures that can also be dangerous then singling out sharks when it comes to marine life is narrow minded .:yes:

[seireikhaan]

:inquisitive: So you're relating human beings to sharks?

Also, shark fins and dolphin fins are pretty easy to differentiate, but I digress.

[Tribesman]

Also, shark fins and dolphin fins are pretty easy to differentiate, but I digress.

To digress further , when something big passes under your board all you know is that it is something big , and when you first experience it you do have a little panic (or a big panic) ..... but then you learn .

[PanzerJaeger]

Now that might be a little clue as to why your views are bollox .
If you cannot elaborate on your racist views to explain them more clearly without violating the simple forum rules then it shows that those views have no basis other than bigotry .


1. How many times did you read through this topic before you decided to pick a fight?

2. If you're going to call me out on something, at least read what I've written.


Its all about culture, not color.

3. I wrote a rather extensive post about the "urban" culture that originated from and has taken over much of the black community, and others to a certain extent. It was taken down, and I'm certainly not going to test my luck again.

As I said, Condoleeza Rice is one of my favorite politicians at the moment. I think she would have been a much better president than George Bush or Dick Cheney. Its unfortunate that she's been passed around the administration like she has, and is now tainted.

According to the current "urban" culture, a brilliant, hardworking black woman such as herself who has formed her own views (ie. not a democrat) is the equivalent of an Uncle Tom. If she's not working directly for the benefit of black people, she's not "black enough". Such comments have been made recently about Barack Obama, despite being a democrat. :no:


Im am not a racist. I am, however, a "culturist" (made up by me :2thumbsup: ). I don't like the urban culture in the United States and I dont like the fundamentalist muslim culture that dominates the Middle East. That doesn't mean I would not be a friend or a supporter of a black or arab person who does not embrace those cultures.

Edit: A black man's perspective..


In May 2004 after receiving an award at the celebration of the 50th Anniversary commemoration of the Brown v. Board of Education ruling, the U.S. Supreme Court's decision that outlawed school segregation (Wu, Frank H.), Cosby made public remarks critical of those blacks who put higher priorities on sports, fashion, and "acting hard" than on education, self-respect, and self-improvement. He has made a plea for African American families to educate their children on the many different aspects of American culture (Baker). According to the Washington Times, he has had a long history of endeavors to advance African Americans (DeBose, Brian).

In "Pound Cake," Cosby, whose doctorate degree is in education, asked that African American parents begin teaching their children better morals at a younger age. He directed this address to the leaders in the lower and middle economic classes of the African-American community (see main article). Cosby told reporters of the Washington Times, "Parenting needs to come to the forefront. If you need help and you don't know how to parent, we want to be able to reach out and touch" (DeBose, Brian). Richard Leiby of the Washington Post reported, "Bill Cosby was anything but politically correct in his remarks Monday night at a Constitution Hall bash commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown vs. Board of Education decision."

Cosby again came under sharp criticism, and again he was largely unapologetic for his stance when he made similar remarks during a speech in a July 1 Rainbow Coalition meeting commemorating the anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education. During that speech, he admonished blacks for not assisting or concerning themselves with the individuals who are involved with crime or have counter-productive aspirations. He further described those who needed attention as "blacks [who] had forgotten the sacrifices of those in the Civil Rights Movement." The talk was interrupted several times by applause and received praise from leaders such as Jesse Jackson.


http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=/SpecialReports/archive/200407/SPE20040702a.html
http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/bcill.htm

[Sasaki Kojiro]

According to the current "urban" culture, a brilliant, hardworking black woman such as herself who has formed her own views (ie. not a democrat) is the equivalent of an Uncle Tom. If she's not working directly for the benefit of black people, she's not "black enough". Such comments have been made recently about Barack Obama, despite being a democrat.

Obama got 72% of the black vote in iowa

[seireikhaan]

And? Sasaki, you do realize that the black population in Iowa is a very, very small percentage of the overall populace? There are entire towns in many rural areas where there are practically no blacks whatsoever. There is a larger percentage of hispanics than their is blacks. Iowa is very, very, very predominantly white.

[Lemur]

Panzer, if your beef is with a culture, and not a skin type, I would think you would be ecstatic that a guy like Obama has emerged as a national figure. Here's a dark-skinned man who is not playing the race card, not espousing victimhood, not wrapped up in identity politics ... I mean, assuming you're being on the level, why not be happy? Even if you disagree with his politics, isn't this a good moment for America?

[PanzerJaeger]

Panzer, if your beef is with a culture, and not a skin type, I would think you would be ecstatic that a guy like Obama has emerged as a national figure. Here's a dark-skinned man who is not playing the race card, not espousing victimhood, not wrapped up in identity politics ... I mean, assuming you're being on the level, why not be happy? Even if you disagree with his politics, isn't this a good moment for America?

What gave you the impression that I'm not happy? Im thrilled!

Of course it would be disingenuous to make that claim on the basis of what you mentioned above. First and foremost, I think he'll be easy to beat in the general election. His example for other blacks comes in a distant second, but I still regard it as a positive. :2thumbsup:

[Tribesman]

3. I wrote a rather extensive post about the "urban" culture that originated from and has taken over much of the black community, and others to a certain extent. It was taken down, and I'm certainly not going to test my luck again.
would it have been the same sort of extensive post you would have got in a 1930s paper about jazz , a 50s one about rocknroll or a 60s one about soul ?

[ICantSpellDawg]

I think an Obama presidency would be a good thing for many black youths. Maybe it will show them that if they stop acting like morons, there is really very little to stop them from getting ahead in life. It has worked for white peasant morons over the years. This is something that needs to be shown to them, I feel that the lack of black success in relation to white success has stripped all hope away from many of them, giving them no reason to try. They will see that intelligence and action speaks louder than skin color.

Maybe this will help to change all of that without giving them undeserved credit. Obama is one of the few running who should be president - it isn't affirmative action this time. Wowee.

Hopefully more to come after we can extricate the old black politicians like Jackson, Sharpton and Rangel from any future government positions. Replace them with people who actually care about the country and not just some retarded vendetta against white people.


Brightside to a Republican Defeat 101 - Blow it out your [..] if you think this is racist.

[Tribesman]

I think an Obama presidency would be a good thing for many black youths.
What about white youths ?

Maybe it will show them that if they stop acting like morons, there is really very little to stop them from getting ahead in life.
But what the about white trailer trash that is left behind , its culture innit:dizzy2:

It has worked for white peasant morons over the years.
You still get redneck scumbags who think marrying their cousin is natural don't ya, it hasn't worked that well ....oh but of course to equate the majority of white people with the habits of a small minority of white people would be illogical wouldn't it..wouldn't it just:thumbsdown: that would be dem thar racoonism , racoonism don't make no sense see , 'cos not all dey raccons do be rabid masked bandits that will trash yourn neat garbage pail and given yous younguns rabid mad dog diseases when dey biten dem as it parten of dere culture .

So it remains , what the **** has a candidates colour of skin or family heritage got to do with anything whatsover as an electoral issue ?

Hey some a dem blacks say he ain't black enough ....**** em you is living in racist shite, hey some o demn whites say he is black....**** em. hey some of dem Latinos say he aint from the barrio enough ...**** em .
If the colour of a mans skin is an issue then you is living in a racist society , and if you yourself take issue over the colour of a mans skin then you is a bloody racist .



Its all about culture, not color.
Well while I warmly agree that not everyone can enjoy the superiority of Wagner over other debased cultural influences I do find it strange that someone can make a distinction (while I most appreciate your spelling as part of the new Victoriana National Front drive to eliminate superfluous letters to raise education levels and reduce the drain on taxpayers) about culture yet make statements that certain cultures from SE asia are all animals ...it does seem like such a broad brush doesn't it eh ....but then again to get back to the topic more or less . You write ....
who has formed her own views (ie. not a democrat) ...hmmmmm...not a democrat ?
Now of course people , be they democrats /republicans /libertarians or the confedarate party of America can form their own views , and those views might be mistaken ...but when it comes to someone who thought Bush/Cheney was the best thing since unsliced bread last election time (and a long time after), then how much weight should be given to your views in this election



ediot those passages roughly relate to the quotes at the start of each passage and the posters aswhatever

[ICantSpellDawg]

What about white youths ?

But what the about white trailer trash that is left behind , its culture innit:dizzy2:

You still get redneck scumbags who think marrying their cousin is natural don't ya, it hasn't worked that well ....oh but of course to equate the majority of white people with the habits of a small minority of white people would be illogical wouldn't it..wouldn't it just:thumbsdown: that would be dem thar racoonism , racoonism don't make no sense see , 'cos not all dey raccons do be rabid masked bandits that will trash yourn neat garbage pail and given yous younguns rabid mad dog diseases when dey biten dem as it parten of dere culture .

So it remains , what the **** has a candidates colour of skin or family heritage got to do with anything whatsover as an electoral issue ?

Hey some a dem blacks say he ain't black enough ....**** em you is living in racist shite, hey some o demn whites say he is black....**** em. hey some of dem Latinos say he aint from the barrio enough ...**** em .
If the colour of a mans skin is an issue then you is living in a racist society , and if you yourself take issue over the colour of a mans skin then you is a bloody racist .



Well that wasn't really a response.

I am kind of a bigot. I don't believe that color means much in principal, but in reality it does - particularly here. Like it or not, America's blacks have a problem. They have had a problem since they were brought here. By the time they were "set free", they didn't know how to be free and make it work for them PLUS they had people (who were more intelligent on average) working against their best interests at a greater rate than people working for their interests. Finally in the middle of the last century, these handicaps were largely thrown off. This has been a slow change from slave mindset to free equal. It has been hampered by both shadow racism in some and the destructive crab-like communal self destruction practiced by their own "leadership" which blocks most positive change.

The low representation in Federal government is a sign to many blacks that white people have all the power and there is no use in trying to get a fair share. This is manifested in the anti-establishment trends in their music and culture (again - in general). The people that they do have at the federal level (lobbyists, elected leaders, etc) are a collective disgrace in general.

Some have broken free, but it is a major problem. I worry for their sakes (and my sisters') that intelligent blacks from at home and abroad are not lured into the culture of cynicism and ignorance that they could help to overcome.

So many white youths have helped create it or have been lured into it as well.

You can dispute it with hard to read drawl-mockery. That's pro-active.

[Tribesman]

Well that wasn't really a response.

in a drunken rambling way it was .


I don't believe that color means much in principal, but in reality it does - particularly here.
In reality the colour if a mans skin is an issue , thats racism Tuff .



Like it or not, America's blacks have a problem.
Now is it only people with dark skin that have a problem ?
singling them out as having a problem is racist is it not ?


They have had a problem since they were brought here.
Brought here , that implies slavery don't it , were Obamas Kenyan ancestors brought there ?



By the time they were "set free", they didn't know how to be free and make it work for them

OK slaves didn't know how to be free , what about freemen ?
what about immigrants after the abolishion ...do they inherantly know how not to be free ?



This is manifested in the anti-establishment trends in their music and culture (again - in general).
Most progressive and contemporarary music has an anti establishment trend , look at any folk or country songs singing against the boss or the government , the corporation , the sherriff or whatever the establishment is ? its the same in all countries .


You can dispute it with hard to read drawl-mockery.
was it that hard to read ?

[ICantSpellDawg]

in a drunken rambling way it was .


In reality the colour if a mans skin is an issue , thats racism Tuff .



Now is it only people with dark skin that have a problem ?
singling them out as having a problem is racist is it not ?


Brought here , that implies slavery don't it , were Obamas Kenyan ancestors brought there ?




OK slaves didn't know how to be free , what about freemen ?
what about immigrants after the abolishion ...do they inherantly know how not to be free ?



Most progressive and contemporarary music has an anti establishment trend , look at any folk or country songs singing against the boss or the government , the corporation , the sherriff or whatever the establishment is ? its the same in all countries .


was it that hard to read ?

I think you are drunk

I WAS referring to slavery and I believe you can address individual groups without addressing every problem of every group.

As far as the music thing goes - many musical trends have a revolutionary angle.

Hip-hop is largely a pirate culture. Destroying the system for the sake of destruction. Most other musical traditions have at least a good aim, regardless of how misguided they are.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I'm watching the Obama speech in Rochester. He looks like he's gonna be sick. He keeps pausing for no reason.

Also - I thought it was great that he was heckled by a whole bunch of abortion protesters. A reminder that a terrible law needs to be addressed because we won't go away.

[Tribesman]

I think you are drunk

perceptive you are young skywalker



I WAS referring to slavery and I believe you can address individual groups without addressing every problem of every group.

yet you made a specific about a generality ,make your mind up , its generalisations that are the core of the issue .


As far as the music thing goes - many musical trends have a revolutionary angle.

Make that "most" instead of "many" musical tends and you may be more correct .



Hip-hop is largely a pirate culture. Destroying the system for the sake of destruction.
methinks you need to listen to more hip hop entirely not just the crap that hits the commercial scene , the commercial scene is not the entirety or even by a big stretch of the imagination what could be called largely representative of the genre .

[ICantSpellDawg]

methinks you need to listen to more hip hop entirely not just the crap that hits the commercial scene , the commercial scene is not the entirety or even by a big stretch of the imagination what could be called largely representative of the genre .

The mainstream is what I'm talking about, remember?
The music that appeals to the majority.

How much does the decent stuff matter? Jurrassic 5, Aesop Rock, Roots

The corrupting artists and the sheer number of them are what I'm addressing. Please don't tell me that this is not realistic.

In the 60's we had bands talking about equality, revolutionary change, Freedoms. 40's and 50's rock was anti-establishment because it wanted to have more fun and less oppression in youth culture.

Again - generalities.

[Tribesman]

The mainstream is what I'm talking about, remember?
The music that appeals to the majority.

Is the commercial mainstream the majority though ?

[PanzerJaeger]

would it have been the same sort of extensive post you would have got in a 1930s paper about jazz , a 50s one about rocknroll or a 60s one about soul ?


You seem to lack a certain knowledge as to what is being discussed. I am certainly not going to take the time to educate you on the subject, but I will say that Rap music is not the issue. It is interesting to note that the biggest Rap hits often highlight certain cultural values that are in question, though.

But you were explaining how I am a racist. Please continue.. :2thumbsup:

[KukriKhan]

We have veered away from investigating and analyzing Mr. Obama's family ties, and whether looking at them is a good idea, into who at the Org may or may not be a racist - considerably off-topic.

If members care to compare their own personal racist credentials, I suggest that be done by PM. If "racism in America, and it's effect on elections" is desired to be explored, a new thread would be appropriate.

So, we close this thread, and thank all for their contributions. :bow: