Oh really.

[Fragony]

Former thread got closed because of some quoting on my part, but that was only on a national level, now the goats best man Ahmad Badr al-Din al-Hassoun who was naturally a wanted guest for the dhimmi's of the european parlement, craving to be the #1 boy of whoever happens to need their tunnelvision, go hard enough and in the end there is light afterall.

Here's our peach.

http://www.nieuwnieuws.nl/archives/images/MoeftiGr.jpg

So, we are beyond 'it's up to the streets' of our local peacefull people, nowadays it's up to the dutch as a whole to 'prevent war and bloodshed' hehe we are good at that. And most of all 'the 'responsibility for the dutch people to prevent him from making this movie' Yeah right but no your precious holy book is going to get a sound dutch beating and there is absolutily nothing you can do about it.

Why the EU let's a clown like this is beyond me. Well it's not but it's beyond me anyway.

[Fragony]

Oh common this is fun, the EU inviting a Syrian mullah to tell us how to live our lives and what certainly is unacceptable to those inhabiting the deserts below us, or else. And they are all looking at eachother on how to handle us extremily delicate situation with delicacy because crtitising doctor Goatlove could just be the end of their failed career. They are in the EU parlement for a reason after all, it's the bin for politicians that couldn't make it nationally. It shows.

[CrossLOPER]

All of these guys that you keep posting about appear to have about as much influence as the bottle of vitamins on my desk. Speaking of which, thanks for reminding me to take my vitamins. :wacko:

[Gregoshi]

http://www.nieuwnieuws.nl/archives/images/MoeftiGr.jpg

I notice the out-of-focus stars in the background form a halo around his head. Coincidence or intentional symbolism by the photographer? There is a message in the picture...

[FactionHeir]

Even if you disagree with his message, I am not sure whether hate speech and defamation are the way to go about it, as those do not tend to create debate but instead flaming.

[Fragony]

Even if you disagree with his message, I am not sure whether hate speech and defamation are the way to go about it, as those do not tend to create debate but instead flaming.

Well sorry if I can't find my inner beauty when I hear things like 'war and bloodshed unless'. In, not surpringly, the EU parlement or whatever. That movie is going to be made.

[CrossLOPER]

Well sorry if I can't find my inner beauty when I hear things like 'war and bloodshed unless'.
Did you forget the part where you suggested that Muslims are goat-people?

Look, you would probably generate a better discussion if you had something more wholesome in terms of links and resources. Saying bad things about the Koran just because some radical decided to open his mouth is not a reason to alienate an entire group of people. Should he be exalted for what he has done? No. However, this is about as far as things go as far as this theme is concerned. :shrug:

[Bijo]

Watch out for the Muslims, Frag. They're out to getcha! :P

[Crazed Rabbit]

Any links to english articles on the subject?

CR

[CrossLOPER]

Any links to english articles on the subject?

CR
All the ones I found are in Dutch. That's what prompted my first post.

[Husar]

Well yes, that's the problem. Everybody is perfectly well integrated once you stop reading (local)newspapers. ~D

[Fragony]

Any links to english articles on the subject?

CR

It's about this;

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/28/europe/EU-GEN-Netherlands-Anti-Quran-Film.php

He isn't known for his subtle ways and scared people are absolutily terrified.

Enter Mufti Ahmad Badr al-Din al-Hassoun, taking it to european levels

[Tribesman]

Did you forget the part where you suggested that Muslims are goat-people?

Come on you wouldn't expect Frag to have a topic with Muslims in it without his usual goat reference .
Its a funny subject for Frag though since this particular bloke complains about suicide bombing , kidnapping by terrorists , fundamentalist jihadis , "honour" killings , lack of womens rights , burning flags and effigies , and the attacks on embassies over the cartoons nonsense ...surely you would expect Frag to find a crazy fundamentalist to complain about instead...but hey any Muslim will do when your one dominating thought of your life is that you think the Muslims are out to get ya .:dizzy2:

Its qutie an ironic story really , the comment from some politicians about the conference ...its outrageous that they can invite the Mufti in the same sentance as they invite the Pope and chief Rabbi , absolutely outrageous since he isn't european ......strange that they don't complain about the Dalai Lama being invited in the same sentance but not being european :oops:

The secret is that the Lama isn't really a Muslim so he must be OK~;)

[Fragony]

Quite ironic indeed because the average muslim is absolutily terrified as well, you would expect they would have an ally in the enlightened west but those enlightened folks are too busy adoring everything in the political islam that they hated in organised christianity.

[Leet Eriksson]

Hey an enlightened guy that might help make things right!

oh wait let me make a thread blasting him to bits with the same tired jokes that has been run down already for the umpteenth time.

Give it a rest fragony :\

[Tribesman]

Give it a rest fragony
Oh come on Faisal let him carry on , its funny .
He not only has a fetish that Muslims are under his bed waiting to get him he has a strange affection for an idiot politician that thinks ownership of a copy of the koran should be a punishable offence under dutch law ...he even wants the koran to be banned from mosques :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: , how can you not see the hilarity of those views ? don't you like laughing at muppets like Wilders ?

[Fragony]

If a schoolbook's picture can turn out in a cartoonriot with european governments stepping on to eachother to be the first to show how very very sorry they are, and now a hatebeard threatening us in the halls of what some would call the european parlement, no I will not give it a rest. If there isn't a problem what's the bloody problem?

don't you like laughing at muppets like Wilders ?

Don't vote on him if that's what you mean. But it does shake things up a little, keep provocing mia muca. Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.

[Geoffrey S]

Don't vote on him if that's what you mean. But it does shake things up a little, keep provocing mia muca. Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.
Can't say I like the man or his views, but I must admit to disliking the types which crawled out of the woodwork in reaction to him even more. Though I don't think the credit can be placed at his doorstep for achieving that, I think he's a scheming bastard capitalizing on the foundations laid by braver and more skilled people than him.

[Fragony]

Can't say I like the man or his views, but I must admit to disliking the types which crawled out of the woodwork in reaction to him even more. Though I don't think the credit can be placed at his doorstep for achieving that, I think he's a scheming bastard capitalizing on the foundations laid by braver and more skilled people than him.

Shut up and kiss me :balloon2:

[Geoffrey S]

Shut up and kiss me :balloon2:
:help: No. :help:

[Gregoshi]

:help: No. :help:
But Geoffrey, your custom title says "come to daddy"... :laugh4:

[Tribesman]

But it does shake things up a little, keep provocing mia muca.
Oh I see , the idea is to keep pushing and pushing until you get a reaction then you can say oh look I told you they would react.... pure genius , it goes down well with the brainless . It reminds me of that prick in australia who kept poking a wobbegong until it bit him , I heard his next project is to tie himself to a Basking shark to see how long it takes to drown him as part of his quest to prove that all sharks are really dangerous .

[Fragony]

Oh I see , the idea is to keep pushing and pushing until you get a reaction then you can say oh look I told you they would react.... pure genius

Actually yes, that sounds about right to me. But who is pushing who. Either way correct though.

[Tribesman]

Actually yes, that sounds about right to me. But who is pushing who.Either way correct though.
Errr frag , if you have two bunches of extremist idiots neither one is correct they are just idiots , it is the people who are not extremist idiots who are correct .:idea2:

[Fragony]

Errr frag , if you have two bunches of extremist idiots neither one is correct they are just idiots , it is the people who are not extremist idiots who are correct .:idea2:

Ya but why do we let extremists talk for them, 'the problem' here couldn't conquer their donkey but they happened to be the new proletariat of idiots that dedicate their life to the one and only culture and it is multi. I can't stand extemists either side but the biggest idiots are the ones taking them seriously. Don't you have any wtf-reaction when a guy like this is allowed to speak here?

[Husar]

Well, noone is forced to listen when he speaks, besides we do have free speech here, don't we?

[Fragony]

Well, noone is forced to listen when he speaks, besides we do have free speech here, don't we?

Nobody was forced to listen to him in the eurpoean parlement, really? What happens when they stay away? What accusation?

[Husar]

Nobody was forced to listen to him in the eurpoean parlement, really? What happens when they stay away? What accusation?
Have you ever heard of people sleeping in a large room? Happens all the time in universities. ~D

[seireikhaan]

I can't stand extemists either side but the biggest idiots are the ones taking them seriously.
:laugh4: Sorry, but that was simply TOO ironic.

[Bijo]

Fragony, I know what you must do. Ah, damn: I already forgot it.... but it was a good idea :P

[Tribesman]

Don't you have any wtf-reaction when a guy like this is allowed to speak here?

No not in the slightest , do you have any reaction that the Pope , chief Rabbi and Dalai Lama are on the same billing as the Mufti ? Do you go wtf are they doing there ?
Probably not because you only have a "its teh Muslims" fetish problem in your mind .

[Fragony]

Read the speech?

http://www.elsevier.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/asp/artnr/188164/index.html

It's blackmail.

[Tribesman]

It's blackmail.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Which bit , the bit where hae says certain elements in society and the worlds media want to feed ignorance to the people to cause strife ?
Was it the bit about building bridges instead of walls , the bit about creating states on a civil basis not a religeous basis , the bit about no one trying to impose their religeon on others ?
Is it a new definition of blackmail you have or has the media been feeding you ignorance ?
Bloody hell Frag , here you have a Muslim cleric condemning most of the things that you claim most Muslims support and you come up with your usual beardygoat:daisy: tripe :dizzy2:

[Fragony]

So that means you didn't read it

[Tribesman]

So that means you didn't read it
No it means you didn't read it , or are you trying to say that what I wrote was not in his speech ?
Oh I get it , you are saying that the part of the statement that says that if something that is designed to provoke a reaction is issued by someone whose intent is to provoke a reaction and it gets the reaction it intends to get then the person who aimed to get the reaction is responsible because of his actions and intent ...yep thats blackmail.:dizzy2:
Oh but there is more , the people who do not stop the idiots who claim to be doing something in their name are also responsible for not stopping the idiot ...yep thats real blackmail .:dizzy2:
Well bugger me sideways I now understand Frags definition of blackmail , its what normal people would call common sense , thanks for the new definition Frag :thumbsdown:

Now what was it he said about certain people feeding ignorance to the people ?:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Fragony]

So that means you simply didn't understand it.

[CrossLOPER]

So that means you simply didn't understand it.
Well if it was in English...

[Tribesman]

Well if it was in English...
The wonderful thing about that thing called the European Parliament is that you can get the speeches issued in most European languages , direct from the horses mouth so to say.
You don't have to rely on the medias interpretation of excerpts and what they claim was said , and certainly don't rely on what Fragony claims was said .:2thumbsup:

[Papewaio]

Link please. :2thumbsup:

[Tribesman]

Link please.
Which language:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Papewaio]

Because I am a cultural troglodyte, English it is. :2thumbsup:

[Banquo's Ghost]

Proceedings of the European Parliament: Grand Mufti of Syria's speech (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/public/story_page/037-18390-014-01-02-906-20080111STO18374-2008-14-01-2008/default_en.htm).

The page I have linked to is a follow-up interview. At the bottom of the page is a link to that actual text in English, and even an audio recording of the translation or original.

[Adrian II]

The OP may be a wet firecracker, but the issue behind it is indeed heating up nicely. It may have the capacity to blow up in some peoples' faces, though right now I couldn't say whose faces.

That issue is the fact that a certain Geert Wilders, the leader of a political movement with nine seats (out of 150) in Dutch parliament, intends to issue a movie in which he equates the Qoran to Hitler's Mein Kampf and proposes to ban it. The film is due to be screened either on tv or on some undisclosed private location in The Neds on January 25.

It's a bit like the Danish cartoon episode. Wilders proposal isn't very smart, to say the least, and it probably won't be a brilliant movie either. Just like none of those Danish cartoons were exactly Mona Lisa's or Sisteen Chapels.

But bad cartoons and bad movies make the best test for a nation's willingness to defend freedom of opinion under threat, be if from abroad of from within its own populace, of violence. Now if and when this film is being screened, are we going to play the art critic or are we going to address the real issue, which is the right to make bad art and spread stupid ideas.

In short: we would all stand up for a Voltaire, but do we stand up for his retarded nephew as well?

I'm afraid I do.

Without ignoring that he is a retard.

[Fragony]

I think the film will turn out to be about the commotion.

[HoreTore]

I don't think I'll ever understand a nationalist.

[Fragony]

No I don't think you will :no:

[Tribesman]

Go on then Frag , explain the rationality of a nationalist so Hore Tore can understand :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[seireikhaan]

Hmm, here's where the sticking point can be regarding free press. I assume the Dutch have laws prohibiting discrimination? If so, then it won't really be hard to stop the movie, as it could quite easily be interpreted as discriminitory(and inaccurate, I'll add).

[Tribesman]

Hmm, here's where the sticking point can be regarding free press.
The sticking point is that Wilders is an idiot or as Adrian put it
we would all stand up for a Voltaire, but do we stand up for his retarded nephew as well?

If Wilders wants freedom of speech then he cannot call for the possession of a book to be made a criminal offence under Dutch law as that is calling for a restriction of freedom of speech .
So that rules out any legitimacy to his nonsense about his right to freedom of speech as he cannot as justification claim a right that he intends to deny to others .
Which is funny really as it puts him on the same page as Frag(surprise surprise) who wants some people to be allowed to express their views but doesn't want other preople to be allowed to express their views .

So while I agree with Adrian ....
I'm afraid I do. ... that agreement as a natural consequence condemns Wilders because of what he says .
As for what the Mufti says ..whats wrong with it ? If someone shouts "fire" in a crowded theatre and causes a stampede then that person is responsible for the reaction that their word caused .

[Adrian II]

I assume the Dutch have laws prohibiting discrimination? If so, then it won't really be hard to stop the movie, as it could quite easily be interpreted as discriminitory(and inaccurate, I'll add).We used to have a tradition of not silencing any member of parliament, an elected representative of the Dutch people, for voicing his or her opinion.

But in 1983 we adopted an article into our constitution that openly condemns discrimination. On that basis some old articles of penal law were revived and used to condemn individuals, including, in 1997, a right-wing member of parliament for stating views which are nowadays common among some major political parties. These articles are silly and should be scrapped or left to die quietly. Political debate should be free. And Wilders should have every right to state that the Quran is as contemptible a book as Mein Kampf.

By the way, if inaccuracy a such were a ground for conviction in The Neds, thousands of Dutch scientists would now be withering away in mass prisons because their views were topped by new insights and rejected under experimental conditions. Happens all the time.

[HoreTore]

And Wilders should have every right to state that the Quran is as contemptible a book as Mein Kampf.

But can you call upon free speech when attempting to limit free speech?

[Fragony]

.
As for what the Mufti says ..whats wrong with it ?

It isn't about what he says it is about who listens.

[HoreTore]

It isn't about what he says it is about who listens.

You, apparently?

[Tribesman]

But can you call upon free speech when attempting to limit free speech?

Exactly , if Wilders wants free speech then it must be free speech , not just free speech for himself and his views .
That is why his whole line of reasoning is of the brainless idiot flavour .


It isn't about what he says it is about who listens.
Well you obviously didn't listen or you wouldn't have gone off on one , the only thing that has any impact on your views of what was said is your usual
" its the Muslims they is coming to get us:scared: "

[Adrian II]

But can you call upon free speech when attempting to limit free speech?You can call upon the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care. That's why it is called a freedom.

[Fragony]

You, apparently?

Guy should have been laughed upon in his face, yes me and the european parlement, and the police who are getting instructions how not to deal with riots, majors going to the imams begging them to keep their lot down. Where the bleep am in the middle of the sandlands?

[Fragony]

" its the Muslims they is coming to get us:scared: "

They won't have to, by that time they want it it will all be given away.

[Tribesman]

majors going to the imams begging them to keep their lot down. :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
mayors going to the community and telling them not to react to the idiots because one bunch of idiots is enough for any town ...oh how shocking :dizzy2:

[Fragony]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
mayors going to the community and telling them not to react to the idiots because one bunch of idiots is enough for any town ...oh how shocking :dizzy2:

Yes, quite.

[Tribesman]

Yes, quite.:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
So if you find that shocking you must prefer if the mayors said there is a bunch of idiots coming to town , please react by going out and kicking the excrement out of them .
Hmmmm ..... well going by your comments Frag your thought process is in your usual cranium up the rectum position . Perhaps if you could consult a physician he might be able to clear your sensory input faculties from all the fecal matter that you are jamming them with .

[Fragony]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
So if you find that shocking you must prefer if the mayors said there is a bunch of idiots coming to town , please react by going out and kicking the excrement out of them .
Hmmmm ..... well going by your comments Frag your thought process is in your usual cranium up the rectum position . Perhaps if you could consult a physician he might be able to clear your sensory input faculties from all the fecal matter that you are jamming them with .

Hey that was good, can I use it won't claim it as my mona lisa.

So if you find that shocking you must prefer if the mayors said there is a bunch of idiots coming to town , please react by going out and kicking the excrement out of them.

Better, at least it would be something. But what the hell has it to do with all that?

[Fragony]

I like, mosks started their own initiative and are keeping mosks open for the public to discuss how they like to behead stuff. Kudo's where it's due. That is a lot more civilised then their leftist benefectors that happened to make a living from being so very bery cosmopolitan securing their continious existance, Frag salutes you salam there.