Favorite tactics

[Spartan198]

I'm looking to expand my battlefield knowledge,so I was curious as to what different strategies and tactics you all use? This includes everything battlefield-related,even the types of units that make up your own preferred army configuration.


Heres a quick listing of my preferred configuration (Macedonian,for example) -
1 heavy cavalry unit (Companions) to command - I never put family members in command unless they have very high command rating (6+ stars).
7 heavy infantry units (Phalanx or Royal Pikemen)
4 heavy cavalry units (Companions or Macedonian Cav)
2 light cavalry units (Light Lancers or Greek Cav)
4 missile units (archers) - I don't use Cretans because they can't be replenished during retraining.
2 siege machines (Heavy Onagers) - for toppling walls during sieges and to frighten enemy troops.

Note: I don't even bother using skirmishers. I'll tell you why below...


Here's a basic rundown of my battleplan -
Heavy infantry provide the base battleline and backbone of the army.
Archers begin by firing vollies of flaming missiles into the enemy.
When the enemy reaches javelin-throwing distance,I launch my heavy cavalry into their own cavalry when present,which usually neutralizes or destroys them within a few minutes.
Archers continue attacking advancing infantry and (hopefully) inflicts some 50% casualies. By this time,the enemy commander (if cavalry-based) has charged into my infantry line and been either destroyed or routed by pike or spear,inflicting massive morale damage to his troops.
When enemy cavalry is neutralized,I cease missile fire and charge my own cavalry at the enemy infantry's flanks and effectively decimate them (which is why I don't bother training skirmishers - they usually just stand around and take up space).
Enemy army begins to retreat,and my light cavalry and command cavalry mop up.
Less than 1% friendly casualties sustained.


The above plan is successful some 90% of the time,even against post-Marian Roman troops. But I've come to believe that I'm becoming too reliant on cavalry and missile troops,and am underusing my infantry for the time and money it takes to train them.

I'm open to any advice,whether it favors my battleplan or not (feel free to point out any weaknesses you spot). And this also extends to both the Barbarian Invasion and Alexander expansions,as well. Thanks in advance for the input.


Edit: On the advice of my fellow Orgahs (that's what we call ourselves,right?) I've lowered my strict command star guidelines from six to three stars,and my casualty levels have lowered to my estimate of about .60 %. Thanks goes out to Quirinus,Fahad,and Mrdun.

[Paradox]

1.Group my army if I see them fit to surround the enemy.
2.Phalanx in the center of the frontlines.
3.Infantry reinforcing them at the back.
4.Missile units at the very back of the army, but they have to be in range.
5.Cavalry securing the flanks.

This is basically my way of maneuvering before the battle actually begins.


I never put family members in command unless they have very high command rating (6+ stars).
Why not? Your general provides an advantage for your troops, morale. I've always grown to be confident about charging my commander at the enemy while rallying my troops. He also prevents exhaustion from spreading quickly.

[mrdun]

Yeah, generals are worth their weight in Saphron :2thumbsup:

[TruePraetorian]

Roman army:

1 General unit, rarely a family member (I enabled recruitable generals for all factions)
4 early legionary cohorts ( Outer provinces rarely have high level barracks to recruit regulars)
5-6 legionary cohorts (5 if I have 1st cohort) trained from high level citys to help economy
2 roman cavalry of any kind
3 archer auxillia
2 infantry auxillia for flanks
2 Heavy/regular Onagers


I group my Legionarys in a double line, alternating regs and earlys:
|reg| |early| |reg| |early| |first|
|reg| |early| |reg| |early| |reg|

I then have my archers and onagers infront set to fire at will, onagers use flame. My auxillia are on the flanks with the cavalry outside of them. When my archers start firing, I prepare to move my double line forward to keep the archers and onagers inbetween them. I set the font row to fire at will, and let the enemy charge. They usually break fast. The flanks are great because of the cav/spear combo, which also allows me to flank the enemy. My general sits behind the lines. If my front ranks retreat, my second ranks immediatly charge without throwing pilla. When one of them is wavering, I general charge while using his rally button. This is actually a historic legion...it works fantastically and is cheap to maintain. Of course it post-marian, for pre-marian I use the historical 3 lines. Also, to beat you cowardly greeks and macedonians, I throw both pilla then charge both ranks to a spot behind the hoplites, causing a few casualties but once they get in deep enough your men's spears are too long to reach me :laugh4: and the legionars prevail at H2H. That was defensive (which is smarter to play for this setup) For offense, I simply move to within range of onagers, unload ammo, archer range, unload ammo, the pilla range and unload both ranks' pilla before charging...no one can stop that. :whip:

[Barbarian]

My tactics with Greece/Macedonian armies:

1) Phalanx in the center
2) phalanx in the front and behind the line
3) Phalanx at the flanks, but usually the best pikemen only, who can hold flanks with ease.
4) Phalanx everywhere

Battle plan: March forward with my forest of pikes:2thumbsup:
Try to move in the way to outmaneuver the enemy's phalanxes and gain victory. Hellenic warfere rocks!:laugh:

[woad&fangs]

I actually use these formations on EB but you can probably adapt them to Vanilla pretty easily

Flexed Form
...........................SMPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPMS....................................
CCCC........................G.,,,,,...MMMMMM..................................
CCCC................................AAAAAAA...........................................

Used with: Epeiros, Arche Seleukia, Ptolemy, Baktria,.... basically anyone with a wide variety of troops but with emphasis on the Phalanx.

C=Cavalry
G=General
S= Short spears
M= Melee troops
A= Archers or other missile troops

Sometimes the General will join the cav if I have enough melee troops. The cavalry swings around and gangs up on the enemy general. Then they wipe out the enemy missile troops and finish by playing hammer with the enemy line. The phalanx is merely pinning the enemy infantry in place until the cavalry arrives. I take them off of guard mode when I'm ready for the kill. The melee in the rear get thrown at weak points in the line that I see. The melee in the front line try to semi-flank the enemy and envelop them. The short spears on the end are to prevent the enemy cav from wiping out my front row melee. They'll either join in the flanking or fall back to protect the archers. I take the archers off of skirmish mode. They fire regular arrows at enemy cav and lightly armored shock units until I'm ready for the kill and then I switch them over to fire arrows.

Strengths- Low casualties, flexibility, can be used for attacking or defending

Weakness- High Cav casualties, to diverse for some factions, requires a lot of troops

That's my most common battle deployment and the one I prefer to use if I have the right troops. I'll post some other ones later.

Actually I still remember some ones I used in Vanilla
Sandbox:

CCC.............................HH...................CCC
................................H.....H.............
...............................H..TG...H
.................................H.....H
....................................HH
..............................SS........AAAAAA...SS

C=Cavalry
H= Heavy Infantry(Hoplites, Legions, Chosen Swordsmen, etc)
G= General
A= Archers
T= Artillery
S= Smelly Camels

Used with Numidia

The cavalry is mostly jav cav and is used to harass the enemy and kill routers. The heavy infantry is in a variant of the "hoplite box" around the artillery. The general is mostly there to provide moral support. The formation works best with a lot of archers. The camels protect the archers from enemy cavalry and can be used as flankers if need be.

Strengths- Uses Numidias strengths, strong defensive formation, if you replace the Legions with desert infantry than it is fairly cheap.

Weakness'- limited mobility, limited ability to deliver killing blows,

[Spartan198]

Great. I'll have to print this thread out and try these tactics and formations out.:2thumbsup:

[Spartan198]

Yeah, generals are worth their weight in Saphron :2thumbsup:
That's true about generals,but,curiously,the morale decrease has never really affected my troops outside of defending my cities themselves (which is somewhat rare as enemy armies rarely get past my strategic placement of forts in chokepoints such as Thermopylae Pass). But the real disadvantage that they pose to me is the initially small count of men making up their bodyguard. I can take a full compliment of 27 cavalry (even light cavalry such as Light Lancers or Greek Cavalry) commanded by captain,and easily envelope and cut down even an armored general with ease.

Maybe I'll check the modding threads to see if it's possible to edit the numbers for Elite Bodyguard units.

But,please,keep the advice coming,everyone!

PS - I didn't know that about the general slowing the spread of exhaustion,though. I'll keep that in mind.

[Caeser The III]

all good tactics:2thumbsup:

[Quirinus]

I never put family members in command unless they have very high command rating (6+ stars)
Family members rarely get to six stars without seeing at least a little action..... anyways, even a three-star general improves an army's performance significantly.


When playing Greek factions, my regular method is to put the phalanx in front, with better-quality hoplites at the flank. This is so that, in the event that the phalanx is attacked from the flank, it fights better, and is less likely to rout. Archers are positioned behind the phalanx. Any skirmishers/non-phalanx mercenary troops are position on the flanks along with cavalry (if any). This is to utilise their relative mobility to protect the flanks of the phalanx, and/or to execute flanking moves of their own once the enemy line is pinned against the phalanx.

Still, though, the battles don't usually play out exactly the way I planned it, but I find that this configuration is fairly adaptable.

[Punicus]

When playing as Carthage I like to have a good 8 units of cavalry, however many infantry I feel necessary (usually a little less than cavalry), a couple of elephants and sometimes slingers if I want, but not always.

When playing against the Romans who use very little cavalry, I often take my own to meet there's to eliminate the possibility of being flanked. This works because a lot of the time the Romans have missile cavalry and bring them farther out anyway, allowing for me to get in a safe attack. I allow the infantry lines to meet, and proceed to flank the Roman lines and attack from the back with no trouble. Elephants are put wherever I need them, they often make the enemy lines break completely. Then chase down the routers.

[Quirinus]

When playing as Carthage my armies tend to be much more cavalry-centric, typically with the inf:cav ratio being 3:4 or something similar.

[Hannibalbarc]

C=cav
Inf=heavy inf(legionaries)
I n f=legionaries in loose formation

I n f I n f
Inf Inf Inf
Inf Inf Inf
CCCCCC

I use 2 units of heavy inf in loose formation in the front to soak up missiles and tier the enemy, then follow with second row and so on. The cav is easy to move
were ever needed.
The ai and most noobs usually just rush in, throw all their pila and arrows at the inf in loose formation and charge. While the front line is fighting the second line throws their pila and charges in once the enemy is tired, some times I don't even
have to use the back line.

[TruePraetorian]

Hmm...Interesting (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97480) strategy...i'm not liking the loose formation but, eh, I haven't tried it yet...

For my Grecko armys I use the tradtional line of hoplites (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97480). I honestly don't know what is better then a huge line of spears...especially because my phalanxs are modded to be more realistic (over-hand, can charge) and when the lines clash (and they do clash) it is very interesting for the first minute (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97480) or so while they fight...eventually one side completley routes. For the flanks I use the cav for defense only as greeks but everyone else offensively.

[wumpus]

Family members rarely get to six stars without seeing at least a little action..... anyways, even a three-star general improves an army's performance significantly.
When playing Greek factions, my regular method is to put the phalanx in front, with better-quality hoplites at the flank...
Still, though, the battles don't usually play out exactly the way I planned it, but I find that this configuration is fairly adaptable.
>Usually, I keep family members in my more prosperous cities--they make good governors, wealth-generators, and breeding stock for more family members. Unless I have about 10 or so of them--then I use the most-starred of them (usually they don't make good governors anyway) to be front-line generals. I've some number of them to waste anyway (specially when I play Greek and the family member ISN'T "So-and-so of Sparta").
>Funny, I usually have the opposite arrangement: a line of phallanx with strongest troops at the center, weakest troops next in line on both sides (I like to keep them symmetrical by type and valor/experience) and medium-strongest at the ends. I am going to try your style of arrangement, Quirinus--maybe tonight or tomorrow. Let me see how it'll turn out.
But, to everyone at large, here's what I'll say: the formation you adopt at the start of the battle partly depends on your style and your temperament. After all, it'll be you who'll manage your troops when opposite shields crash against each other. Only general rules and suggestions would be of great use from somebody else.
Hawooh.

[Quirinus]

Hehe, yeah. I'm not entirely sure that my strategy of placing better troops at the flanks works better, I just thought that infantry with poorer morale would rout less if their flanks are secure. Also, if the better-quality infantry at the flanks gain the upper hand, I could try enveloping the enemy, which usually sparks off a chain rout.

That's the thing I love about RTW combat -- if it feels logical, it likely will work.

[Red Spot]

in vanilla Rome playing as a Roman I always used the same, undefeated, formation (won most MP battles with it as well ...)

the units;
-1 general
-4 to 6 (heavy) cavalry
-4 to 5 archers
-0 or 2 onagers (only work them in pairs!)
-filled up with the heaviest possible pilum-infantry I have

generally late game it would be;
-1 general
-2 onagers
-5 archers
-4 cavalry
-8 late legions
(sometimes some legions got swapped for praetorians)

formation;

---------------A--A--A--A--A---------------
---------------L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L---------------
--------C-C-------O--G--O-------C-C-------
(with a fast light armoured enemy I would deploy the archers behind the legions)

whenever you're in range defensive or offensive the formation halts, and onagers and archers do their damage, enough archers are used to stop any pesky HA-factions (or any other lightly armoured faction for that matter)
If attacking I'll just move the formation closer untill archers are at about 80% of maximum range (so they basicly can hit the second line of an enemy force), and leave them to it untill out of ammo, though I try to have them shoot the heaviest of infantry ... than I'll withdraw my archers to behind the legions, and march the legions and cavalry accompanied by the general forward so the legions are in pilum-range, trow both pilum, and charge the full line of legions into the enemy line, once the enemy formation has engaged my men I run the cavalry further back and charge both flanks from behind at ~ the 2 unit from the tip (the one on the tip will rout if the 2nd routs, so I'll take 2 units in a single charge), moving my general left or right of the engaged formation for unforseen events or leave it incase the center might break ..
At this point the battle is won ...
If defending, depending on the enemy army I may decide to leave skirmish off on my archers, so the enemy will charge and rout my archers, wich will make a impact on morale but it will also take away the incoming charge from your good melee-units, wich are at that point probably more important.
For the rest I basicly do remarkebly little when on defense, just leave my legions to fire at will and turn fire-ammo of onagers to regular ammo as the enemy gets closer and disable it when forces are engaged.
Cavalry just sits tight untill they can charge from behind or into a flank, if they get chased by some infantry I usually just pull them further left or right (away from the formation and chasing infantry) and have general charge the infantry from behind, than pull the cavalry back and in turn have them charge the unit wich was now fighting my general and most likelly wont stand the 2nd charge without routing ....

When fighting 2 stacks and you have the option, get 3 or 4 skirmishers into an AI-controlled army as reinforcements, they'll do surprisingly well in the AI's hands specially if taken into account that they will split up 2 full formations so you can take them out individually, for the rest I dont use skirmishers ..


G

[Good Ship Chuckle]

I know of a tactic that has never failed me, no matter the odds or faction I'm against. There are two stipulations however:


Be a phalanx using faction
Be on the defensive


How it works:
Once the general has finished his speech, find the highest corner on your side of the map. Then place your units as close to it as possible. Then click on start to begin the battle. Immediately press pause. Now select each phalanx individually and place them in a tightly knit quarter-cirlce that completely covers your corner. Make the quarter-circle flawless with out gaps in between the units, lest a chink cause the quarter-circle to collapse from a head on attack. Now stuff in your cav and archers in behind your phalanges. It's a tight fit, but it should be that way.

Press play to resume the battle. Then toggle run/walk to make them get to their spots double time, and so that you don't disrupt their destinations (so don't double click). Once everyone is in their correct postions, simply lower your spears and watch as wave after wave of enemy troops rout themselves upon your spears. Then unleash your cav to rout anyone who was smart enough not to attack you.

I've actually stopped using this tactic because it's too effective. Everytime I've used it, the enemy cannot flank you and is forced to attack your plalanx head on, which obviously takes some of the sport out of the battle. But if you're in postion where a defeat is not an option, then by all means use it.:7detective:

For those of you who need a visual:

...;;O
...;; __O
...;; A___O
...;; __A___O
...;; _____A __O
...;; CCC____A__O
...;; CCC_________O
...;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


<;> edge of map
<O> Phalanx infantry (make sure there are no gaps!!)
<A> Archers
<C> Cavalry


Try it once, and you'll curse yourself for finding something that makes battles impossible to lose. Also, if you want to improve your gameplay skills in a way that isn't as cheapskate (but just as effective) as this tactic, I must reccomend hotkeys. I've created an easy to use tutorial, just find the link in my signature.

[Slug For A Butt]

Thanks for the information Chuckle, but that is one of the oldest, cheesiest exploits in the game.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work it out, and it kills the battlefield game stone cold dead. No fun in it mate, you may as well just use cheats too.
Hey, if you want another idea, why not play MP and create a box of phalangites with archers inside? You'll be a really popular guy then in MP. :yes:

[El Diablo]

Come on mate thats a bit harsh. It may be the oldest exploit in the book but there are some very very new readers here on this site. They may want to use that strategy to win an important battle so they can get underway in a campaign.

Once people get a bit better at the stratigies then the probably wont use it.
I don't - you obviously don't.

The OP asked for tactics not a discussion of honourable ones v non-honourable.

Anyway in Single player why not use it? You are playing to enjoy yourself, not someone on a discussion board.

[Punicus]

I suppose I will share my strategy for Parthia, as no one has shared theirs yet. Firstly, I barely use any infantry, ever. The only reason I might have a unit of them in there is because I need to get a ram to take down an enemy wall. If the wall is stone, I don't even bother sieging. I'd rather let them sally out (the fact that the units come out one at a time seems to be advantegous to a faction who relies on archery such as the Parthians).

Now obviously the whole point of the Parthians is to use mounted archery tactics. So what I usually do is I will focus all of my fire on one unit. I demoralize them by doing this and when you have 10+ units of Horse Archers firing on one unit, the enemy unit will be gone in a few volleys - especially so if you are using experienced units. So unless the case of a full stack attacking you, you should be able to rout the entire army. Now, this is the AI I'm talking about - the AI is stupid, and any real player probably wouldn't wait around to get shot as if it's something fun. So honestly my massed HA technique is nothing to be amazed at. But in this way I've barely lost any battles.

If your men run out of ammo, you could just head for the hills and end the battle with most of your men. But if the army is experienced enough, I will sometimes just do a mass-charge at each individual unit to make them rout.

I'm not sure if this strategy is slightly different or exactly the same as everyone else's, but either way I figured I'd post it.

[Quirinus]

I have a question about your phalanx box tactic-- what if the army decides not to attack at all? Even in battles with about even odds, I've seen enemies abstain from attacking superior positions such as higher ground, and just wait for you in another part of the battlefield. Wouldn't this pretty much screw up the strat?

[Spartan198]

Glad to see this thread hasn't died yet.

Your corner-grouping manouver is very successful,Chuckle,and I did use it at first because I was a horrible commander,but didn't wanna auto-win my way through either. But it is also good when you're literally with your back to the wall and those cursed Romans are beating at the borders of your last settlement. It's definitely in my battle book (I'm creating printouts of all these formations putting them in a binder entitled "the Ancient Art of Warfare").

[Spartan198]

I suppose I will share my strategy for Parthia, as no one has shared theirs yet. Firstly, I barely use any infantry, ever. The only reason I might have a unit of them in there is because I need to get a ram to take down an enemy wall. If the wall is stone, I don't even bother sieging. I'd rather let them sally out (the fact that the units come out one at a time seems to be advantegous to a faction who relies on archery such as the Parthians).

Now obviously the whole point of the Parthians is to use mounted archery tactics. So what I usually do is I will focus all of my fire on one unit. I demoralize them by doing this and when you have 10+ units of Horse Archers firing on one unit, the enemy unit will be gone in a few volleys - especially so if you are using experienced units. So unless the case of a full stack attacking you, you should be able to rout the entire army. Now, this is the AI I'm talking about - the AI is stupid, and any real player probably wouldn't wait around to get shot as if it's something fun. So honestly my massed HA technique is nothing to be amazed at. But in this way I've barely lost any battles.

If your men run out of ammo, you could just head for the hills and end the battle with most of your men. But if the army is experienced enough, I will sometimes just do a mass-charge at each individual unit to make them rout.

I'm not sure if this strategy is slightly different or exactly the same as everyone else's, but either way I figured I'd post it.

Thanks,Punicus. I did manage to win a short Parthian campaign a while back, but my battle stats weren't good,though (don't ask how it's possible,but after I'd added together all my numbers,I'd sustained more casualties than troops I'd trained and hired! :inquisitive: ). Oddly,while my standard battle plan (listed in my very first post for this thread) is infantry-based but cavalry-reliant (maybe I just feel more secure when my men have a wall of spears to fall behind),my infantry rarely engage past the common suicidal General's Cavalry charge,I'd never been able to translate it to any Eastern army except Armenia (which,coincidently,has phalanx-capable heavy infantry).

My management of horse archers is also horrible despite my reliance on cavalry. Go figure? :inquisitive:

Edit: Mass charges are also a nightmare for enemy morale,especially when it's a phalanx or syntagma (aka,"Macedonian phalanx") marching toward them.

[Good Ship Chuckle]

I have a question about your phalanx box tactic-- what if the army decides not to attack at all? Even in battles with about even odds, I've seen enemies abstain from attacking superior positions such as higher ground, and just wait for you in another part of the battlefield. Wouldn't this pretty much screw up the strat?

There are two options to this scenario::7teacher:
1) Make your battles have a time limit. If the enemy attacks you on the campaign map and then doesn't attack you on the field, then you've won after 45 minutes.:yes:

2) If time limit is not an option, they you must cajole the enemy into attacking you. If you're a hellenic faction, send out your militia cav and throw a couple spears into him. See if that makes him attack. Or move your archers into postion, and fire a couple volleys into him, to rustle up some movement. And as a last resort, take your general and dance him around in front of the enemy. Nothing looks quite as tasty to the AI than your general all by himself.

Almost always one of those will work.~:cheers:

[The Wandering Scholar]

Yep, I still use the golden oldies. You know the ones, hammer and anvil types. very reliable. Plus the AI don't learn so you can keep doing it.

[Quirinus]

There are two options to this scenario::7teacher:
1) Make your battles have a time limit. If the enemy attacks you on the campaign map and then doesn't attack you on the field, then you've won after 45 minutes.:yes:
Haha, I usually uncheck that, because sometimes, my cavalry tactics against a superior force depends on tiring out the enemy, which takes a hell lot of time. I haven't actually tried the battle timer though, so I don't know if it matters or not. ~:)


2) If time limit is not an option, they you must cajole the enemy into attacking you. If you're a hellenic faction, send out your militia cav and throw a couple spears into him. See if that makes him attack. Or move your archers into postion, and fire a couple volleys into him, to rustle up some movement. And as a last resort, take your general and dance him around in front of the enemy. Nothing looks quite as tasty to the AI than your general all by himself.

Almost always one of those will work.~:cheers:
Haha, yes, I remember that. The Gallic army wouldn't move from their wooded position, so I sent my general to play tag. They wouldn't move, and I was taking casualties from their archers, so I charged them repeatedly from the flanks, hoping to lure them out. The result? My general got speared by a javelin. My demoralised troops then proceeded to die in large numbers, rout, and generally make a huge disgrace of themselves. =(


But I tried the phalanx box tactic in a custom battle with seven units of Greek hoplites, versus a full stack of Parthian eastern infantry and another full stack of Pontic chariots. It worked spectacularly. A particularly determined charge, though, almost broke through my lines at one point before they routed. Isn't it possible that an infantry unit with better morale and stats (say, a Roman legionary cohort) might actually break through by sheer numbers?

[The Wandering Scholar]

Haha, I usually uncheck that, because sometimes, my cavalry tactics against a superior force depends on tiring out the enemy, which takes a hell lot of time. I haven't actually tried the battle timer though, so I don't know if it matters or not. ~:)

I always, always set a battle timer. Especially good for defending sallys. plenty of missile to weaken them, charge with cav then retreat using your speed to another part of the map. You win 9/10.



Isn't it possible that an infantry unit with better morale and stats (say, a Roman legionary cohort) might actually break through by sheer numbers?

yes, them legionnaires, especially spec'd up with foundry and stufff can easily break your pike line. This ame as a suprise to me as I could not understand hoe a short gladius could somehow evade a very long spear.

[woad&fangs]

Armoured hoplites would probably also work if you took them out of phalanx mode and had them charge. Chosen swordsmen could also work.

Large pike armies used to scare me until I realized that I could bullrush them with a heavily armoured unit and force them into their secondary weapons. At that point I brought in some medium infantry to finish off the now pikeless pikemen while my bullrushers went on to the next pike unit. In my next EB campaign I'm thinking of playing as the Saby'n which means I'll have to master this tactic in order to have a chance against the endless hordes of Egyptians and Seleucids.

Edit: anyways, here is a tactic that I've used with the scythians.

Trident:

Factions-Scythia, Egypt, Parthia(?)

AAAAAAA
AAAAAAA............................../\..../\..../\
........................................./N.\./ N\./ N.\
........................................HHHH..G..HHHH
...............................................HHHH

A-horse archers(chariot archers for eggies.)
/N\- I think that I used Scythian Nobles but any strong Cav that can form a wedge will do.
H-Head hunting maidens(the cavalry with axes for the eggies.)
G-General

Tactics: Ram the into the enemy with the wedges followed closely by the AP cavalry and the general. The wedges should be freed from melee as soon as possible but the AP cav and the general should fight in melee as long as is practical. The wedges should repeatedly charge the enemy and then withdraw. The HA's should focus their fire on one flank until it is weak enough to insta-route when charged. Then they should draw back and repeat with the next set of units.

Strengths: Strong against armoured foes, mobile, good offensive formation

Weakness's: Heavy casualties in the melee Cav, lots of micro-management.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

I have only played two campaigns so far, but here is what I do for what its worth.

1. My usual defensive set up for Romans pre Marian against Barbarians, Spaniards and Carthaginians is:

---Slingers---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------Hastati--Hastati--Hastati--Hastati--Hastati--------------------------
--------Spearmen---------Velites----Archers----Velites-----------Spearmen------------
-----------------------*Hastati*-Hastati-General-Hastati-*Hastati*----------Wardogs--
---Equites----------------------------------Equites--------------------------------Equites-------

Slinger to pelt them as they approach, wardogs to attack any missile units that the AI sends up front (though I do feel a little exploity using them except against rebels), mercenary spearmen to beat of any flanking cavalry. I let the enemy come up and bash the hastati before flanking round with the *hastati* (the two most experienced units) and equites. Genrally also I have the hastati in the second line and the missile troops focus all their fire on one unit at a time. Usually I can get three enemy units to rout bfore serious fighting. If the enemy general charges at any point, I will give him one volley from the velites and counter charge with my general. Otherwise too many hastati get killed.

If fighting against chariots I will go in with a couple more velites and put them on the flanks to swamp the chariots or hide in woods to emerge and attack from the back.

2. On the attack, it really depend on the terrain.
- Never attack up hill or head on. Maneouvre to attack along the top of a ridge.
- Wait to let your troops get back to fresh or atleast warmed up before final attack.
- Lead with velites or some other missile unit in loose formation to absorb missiles - casualties matter less as there wont be much time to bombard the enemy with missiles anyway and velites are cheap.
- Always attack one flank first with infantry and with cavalry sweeping around, archers/ slinger bombarding the rest of their line (velites dont have enough range). As the AI redeploys to line up face to face with you, look for opportunities ot pick off units, charge missile units with cavalry or infantry units which can be attacked quickly from all sides and routed.

3. When sallying out in a siege, lead with cavalry first. As the AI redeploys (why doesnt it shoot as you emerge from the gates?!!?) charge whatever unit is at the AI's tail. With 3 units of cavalry it will rout and at most the penultimate tail unit will move back to support it. Run the cavalry off a little distance and then charge and rout them too. By then your infantry will be outside the gates and the cavalry "warmed up" so give the horsies a rest and use the infantry to start the main battle.

4. Siege assaults: anyone have good strategy for this? controlling units i find is a nightmare they keep going the worng places, find the worst routes and engaing units they should be skirting around. Ugh.

[whtdoesitmatta]

the best tactic is to warcry with bezerkers.:laugh4:

[Hannibalbarc]

So that they run head on into a bunch of Spartan phalanxes.

[whtdoesitmatta]

Mine have never seen a phalanx other than my own.The Greeks only exist in Asia Minor and Rhodes.

[Hannibalbarc]

Well if thats the case, berserkers rule.:yes:

[whtdoesitmatta]

Lol, ok some new fun bezerker stories,
I play on Medium size so I only get 12 each unit card(not a funny story).

First I tested 1 bezerker unit vs 1 spartan unit, and bezerker won 35/41dead-6/13 dead.

During my current Germania campaign
Second I had 7 units of bezerkers hiding in a forest, with 3 spear warband behind them along with, one gothic cav, and one chosen archers.

As soon as they become unhidden I unleashed their super power.
Marched toward the enemy with spears. My Cav went around crushing pelasts and such.

I win with a Heroic victory. Killing 320+ with the bezerkers out of the 650+ stack. Another hundred with Cav, and rest split between escaping and other units.

Bezerkers are godly, and make the game so much more fun, especially when you forget about reinforcements and they all start charging, and you have to go save them.

[The Wandering Scholar]

The besekers beat the spartans head on?

[whtdoesitmatta]

Yeah, I watched the replay and they seemed jump over the spears and hammer away.

[Spartan198]

The besekers beat the spartans head on?

They have on numerous occasions during my campaigns. Now,I just sic archers and cavalry on them,instead of risking my phalanxes.

[whtdoesitmatta]

yea what kills them is those dam Pilas as they charge the romans, because it knocks down a hitpoint.

[The Wandering Scholar]

Am i right in thinking that beserkers have a really weak defense and missiles will take them out?

[Quirinus]

Yes. In fact the best strategy against berserkers is to just pepper them with arrows/javelins/anything pointy and light. They're like falxmen, on steroids. Wait a minute, they are falxmen on steroids. :laugh4:

[Hannibalbarc]

Berserkers beat spartans head on? strange, well in my version they don't, I can can even beat them with poeni infantry, as long as they don't get flanked.

[The Wandering Scholar]

Yes. In fact the best strategy against berserkers is to just pepper them with arrows/javelins/anything pointy and light. They're like falxmen, on steroids. Wait a minute, they are falxmen on steroids. :laugh4:
:beam:

[The New Che Guevara]

As I've started a new campaign as Greece, I've discovered the amazing ability of Phalanxes.

Simple tactic I know, but just march phalanxes towards them, It helps when playing as the Greek Cities. Defending a settlement, I'd just shove a Phalanx infront of the entrance and watch them come in. I've got Sardis being besieged by the Egyptians. The last time my phalanxes went against chariots I was laughing as their chariots rode through my phalanxes, in the course losing both their horse and rider. I really cant wait for this defence. So I've decided to let them keep sieging it as I know they will try and attack. My plan is slightly full proof.

[gaiusmarius8]

This is my usual battle formation when I was playing Germania...

WWWWWWW WWWWWWW
WWWWWWWWWWWW

C AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA C
CC AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA CC
CCC CCC
CCCC GGGG CCCC


C: Cavalry
W: Spear Warband
A: Axemen
G: General


I put some warbands out diagnal to my main spearwarband line, I enclose the enemy for the most part to win.

[The Wandering Scholar]

A tactic I used on multiplayer as macedon was this:

CCIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICC
CC AGA CC

Letters are pretty self-explanatory, I don't really know if it is effective as my opposition just warcried and charched into my spears, idiot.

[TruePraetorian]

Since we are using letters :laugh4:




Romans:


SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

555 444 333 222 111111
CCC AAA 666 777 888 999 000 AAA CCC
OOO OOO
GGG






Numbers - Legionary Cohorts. 1 is first cohorts OR a double cohort (two side-by-side)
AAA - Infantry Auxillia or Mercs.
SSS - Skirmisher
RRR - Archers
CCC - Cavalry
GGG - General
OOO - Onager/artillery

When my archers start firing, i turn off my onagers. I then advance all units (except onagers, archers, and skirmishers) forward. The skirmishers are on skirmish, but not the archers. I then move my double line so my archers are in the middle of my Cohorts. My skirmishers stay infront, and just retreat when they need to. First row of infantry is set on guard and fire at will. I check each unit, when one or more say shaken, i set rear row to fire at will. They throw, then I charge with my second lines. I then retreat my first lines slowly, and line them up behind in the same fashion. Then I repeat :beam:

[Emperor Mithdrates]

I'm looking to expand my battlefield knowledge,so I was curious as to what different strategies and tactics you all use? This includes everything battlefield-related,even the types of units that make up your own preferred army configuration.

I (if i'm playing as Carthage) get....

10 Sacred band hoplites
6 Iberian infantry
1 Generals Unit

Right, first I get 4 of my hoplites and arrange them like a hedgehog formation around my general then I put the other 6 units in a line facing the enemy army with 3 of my iberian infantry on each side. Then I advance my hoplites towards the enemy line and while their doing that I sneek my Iberians around the back of their line and rip their hoplies or whatever to shreds.

And for them....:end:

[Spartan198]

I (if i'm playing as Carthage) get....

10 Sacred band hoplites
6 Iberian infantry
1 Generals Unit

Right, first I get 4 of my hoplites and arrange them like a hedgehog formation around my general then I put the other 6 units in a line facing the enemy army with 3 of my iberian infantry on each side. Then I advance my hoplites towards the enemy line and while their doing that I sneek my Iberians around the back of their line and rip their hoplies or whatever to shreds.

And for them....:end:

If I'm reading this correctly,you basically envelop and surround them on three sides,just like the Greeks at Marathon,correct? Simple but effective.

Those Sacred Band are real killers...

[Quirinus]

If I have a full army, I like to keep a couple of units in reserve to commit at a critical moment-- does anyone else do this too, or is it more beneficial to just throw everything you have at the enemy?

[Spartan198]

If I have a full army, I like to keep a couple of units in reserve to commit at a critical moment-- does anyone else do this too, or is it more beneficial to just throw everything you have at the enemy?

Personally,hanging any units other than generals back has cost me casualties. Plus,it totally scares the f**k out of the enemy when you launch a full battle line of hoplites in phalanx toward them.

Balls to the wall,is what I say...

[Quirinus]

Yeah, I don't do this when playing a phalanx-capable faction, but as the Romans, Carthagenians etc. I do this because I find that sometimes the addition of a fresh troop to the melee against a tired or winded opponent will tip the balance of the melee, and possibly trigger a chain rout.

[TruePraetorian]

If I have a full army, I like to keep a couple of units in reserve to commit at a critical moment-- does anyone else do this too, or is it more beneficial to just throw everything you have at the enemy?


I do this anytime i play as the romans..which is almost always (pax romanum!)

I have a double line. When the units in front get tired, or if they become shaken, I send in the second line. After a few seconds, I sprint the previous men back and let them rest. Your lines will last quite a bit longer...try it.

Also, I constantly use the rally tab. it not only brings men back, but boosts morale, check it by pressing it. It will say "boosted by generals encouragements". If its a critical situation, then i press the button and charge into the weakest portion of the enemy line (i check for what units are shaken are wavering) this ususally turns the tide.



Since we are on the topic of tactics, has anyone used the roman checkers formation? I have tried it, but cannot figure out how they form a single line after the charge. Wikipedia it if you dont know what im talking about (roman battle formations)..it looks...interesting.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I always have an extra line of re-enforcements behind my units to charge in and change the tide of the battle if needed. As the Romans its usually another line of Principles or Hastatii, while as Carthage its typically a unit of Iberian Infantry. I generally try to go for something with a good charge bonus which will have serious impact upon enemy morale. Sadly few factions actually have a unit with these credentials, although as Germania, Night Raiders are perfect.

As said, The Greek Cities and the suchlike phalanx based factions have a disadvantage here - charging a unit through their ranks breaks them up, making them end up forced to switch to their secondary weapon - fairly useless quite honestly, especially when dealing with another phalanx. They aren't really helped by the fact that they have no infantry beyond phalanx units themselves, which, as said, are fairly useless if charging since they have to use their secondary weapon.

~:)

[Quirinus]

Though with the Greek Cities, do you just go with your phalanx and cavalry? I usually like to hire some mercenaries like mercenary peltasts or something for flank protection.

By the way, while still on the subject of the Greek Cities, do you use militia cavalry? I always have at least one unit on a medium- to large-sized army-- it helps a lot to be able to chase routers with them and conserve the breath of the general's bodyguard.

Plus, they are very fast, meaning they kill routers so much more efficiently than regular cavalry. I usually start the battle with fire-at-will turned off. In some battles I don't use the javelins, or, indeed, the militia cavalry themselves in actual combat, but use them to wipe out routers. I find them especially effective in assassinating routing generals.

As missile cavalry, though, they suck spectacularly. Low range, ammo that soon runs out, and not significantly more effective than horse archers in men killed per volley.

[Spartan198]

I do this anytime i play as the romans..which is almost always (pax romanum!)
Consider yourself lucky the AI can't reproduce the exceptional command ability of the Scourge of Rome! Then the Pax Romanum might find itself in slight jeopardy! :wall: (no offense)

Since we are on the topic of tactics, has anyone used the roman checkers formation? I have tried it, but cannot figure out how they form a single line after the charge. Wikipedia it if you dont know what im talking about (roman battle formations)..it looks...interesting.
You're talking about the manipular formation,if I'm not mistaken,correct? In vanilla I didn't,but it's hardcoded as the starting formation in XGM. And I've actually had considerablely more success with it over the two-line formation I used to use.
When I first got the game,my cat could probably have been a better commander than I was,but studying historical battles and tactics alike really does make a difference. That's one thing that sets the Total War series apart from other "games".

[Spartan198]

By the way, while still on the subject of the Greek Cities, do you use militia cavalry? I always have at least one unit on a medium- to large-sized army-- it helps a lot to be able to chase routers with them and conserve the breath of the general's bodyguard.

Plus, they are very fast, meaning they kill routers so much more efficiently than regular cavalry. I usually start the battle with fire-at-will turned off. In some battles I don't use the javelins, or, indeed, the militia cavalry themselves in actual combat, but use them to wipe out routers. I find them especially effective in assassinating routing generals.

As missile cavalry, though, they suck spectacularly. Low range, ammo that soon runs out, and not significantly more effective than horse archers in men killed per volley.
In vanilla I did,but it was largely confined to the Greeks,Romans,and rarely the Seleucids.
As the Greeks,I'd use the light Greek Cavalry in a "heavy" manner,and Militia Cavalry to act as light cavalry to chase down skirmishers,exactly as you,but never in missile cavalry situations. I never use foot skirmishers,so why would mounted skirmishers be of any use to me? But this pretty much ended after I found out how to make Macedonian (heavy) Cavalry available as a recruitable Greek unit. Seleucid use of it was fairly rare,as I had Companions,Cataphracts,and elephants at my disposal.
As the Romans,I would use their Cavalry Auxilia in place of better light cavalry in Post-Marian armies. But that,too,ended when I removed the "and not marian_reforms" stipulation from Equites in the export_descr_buildings file.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

What about the numerous swarms tactic. Its a ideal favourite for lazy people like myself.
Get tons of barbarian warband in loose faormation and charge around screaming like headless chickens.
Works for me when i'm barbarians. I conquered rome.

[Spartan198]

What about the numerous swarms tactic. Its a ideal favourite for lazy people like myself.
Get tons of barbarian warband in loose faormation and charge around screaming like headless chickens.
Works for me when i'm barbarians. I conquered rome.

That tactic does work,but it works best when the enemy's disorderly and especially when used with Axemen.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

That tactic does work,but it works best when the enemy's disorderly and especially when used with Axemen.Going slightly off topic here, what is people's general opinion of Germanic (Germania, Dacia and Scythia) Axemen vs Celtic (Gaul and Brittania) Swordsmen overall?

I've always felt that Swordsmen were better at absorbing ranged missiles, while Axemen appeared better in melee - especially against armoured opponents.

I've always been favoured towards axemen for some reason. Although they are more lightly armoured, and statistically appear less powerful, their armour piecing bonus gives them an edge over such opponents. This is particularly important against the might of Roman legionaries should they come into contact with such foes.

They also seem to have a bigger charge bonus than swordsmen, giving them more potential to be used as shock troops to route a wavering foe.

~:)

[Spartan198]

Going slightly off topic here, what is people's general opinion of Germanic (Germania, Dacia and Scythia) Axemen vs Celtic (Gaul and Brittania) Swordsmen overall?

I've always felt that Swordsmen were better at absorbing ranged missiles, while Axemen appeared better in melee - especially against armoured opponents.

I've always been favoured towards axemen for some reason. Although they are more lightly armoured, and statistically appear less powerful, their armour piecing bonus gives them an edge over such opponents. This is particularly important against the might of Roman legionaries should they come into contact with such foes.

They also seem to have a bigger charge bonus than swordsmen, giving them more potential to be used as shock troops to route a wavering foe.

~:)

Personally,I prefer the Germanic Axemen over Celtic swordsmen. Adequate missile defense is good to have,but when you get right down to it,it's the meeting of the blade in close-combat that wins the battle. I make great use out of archers and the like,but I've never won a large-scale battle with missile troops alone.

Axemen over Swordsmen in my barbarian armies.

Edit: Hey,my Diadochi banner works now! (Immitating Cartman) Sweeeeet!

[Emperor Mithdrates]

Personally,I prefer the Germanic Axemen over Celtic swordsmen. Adequate missile defense is good to have,but when you get right down to it,it's the meeting of the blade in close-combat that wins the battle. I make great use out of archers and the like,but I've never won a large-scale battle with missile troops alone.

Neither have I but I have this gr8 tactic i forgot to mention. I told my friends and they loved, i managed to destroy the western roman empire leaders army with it on BI.

I put my vandal chosen swordsmen at one end of a bridge in a perfect hold ground stance. the romans stormed across the bridge to get them.
Then i sent my other section of swordsmen to swim over the river and cut off the far end of the bridge, it worked and they were trapped like rats. After that my 10 archer units finished them off. I killed everyone cos they couldnt retreat.
:smg:

[Spartan198]

Neither have I but I have this gr8 tactic i forgot to mention. I told my friends and they loved, i managed to destroy the western roman empire leaders army with it on BI.

I put my vandal chosen swordsmen at one end of a bridge in a perfect hold ground stance. the romans stormed across the bridge to get them.
Then i sent my other section of swordsmen to swim over the river and cut off the far end of the bridge, it worked and they were trapped like rats. After that my 10 archer units finished them off. I killed everyone cos they couldnt retreat.
:smg:
I use that one,too! Simple,bloody,and effective.

Great minds think alike.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

I use that one,too! Simple,bloody,and effective.

Great minds think alike.

Touche, my friend.
:2thumbsup:

O.of.A

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Neither have I but I have this gr8 tactic i forgot to mention. I told my friends and they loved, i managed to destroy the western roman empire leaders army with it on BI.

I put my vandal chosen swordsmen at one end of a bridge in a perfect hold ground stance. the romans stormed across the bridge to get them.
Then i sent my other section of swordsmen to swim over the river and cut off the far end of the bridge, it worked and they were trapped like rats. After that my 10 archer units finished them off. I killed everyone cos they couldnt retreat.
:smg:A similar tactic can also be used in R:TW - even without the "swim" ability.

In R:TW, there often is a shallow point in the river which units can cross at slightly up/down stream from the bridge. Unlike in BI though, anything, light or heavy, can cross there and flank the attacking foes.

I always send cavalry round of some sort. Its a very effective tactic in routing attackers or trapping them on the bridge so you can gain the pleasure of completely wiping out the opposition.

Using it is a bit of an exploit though, the AI is not aware of its existence so never actually uses it.

~:)

[Emperor Mithdrates]

A similar tactic can also be used in R:TW - even without the "swim" ability.

In R:TW, there often is a shallow point in the river which units can cross at slightly up/down stream from the bridge. Unlike in BI though, anything, light or heavy, can cross there and flank the attacking foes.
~:)

Interesting.
I'll look out for that.
:thinking2:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

A similar tactic can also be used in R:TW - even without the "swim" ability.

In R:TW, there often is a shallow point in the river which units can cross at slightly up/down stream from the bridge. Unlike in BI though, anything, light or heavy, can cross there and flank the attacking foes.

I always send cavalry round of some sort. Its a very effective tactic in routing attackers or trapping them on the bridge so you can gain the pleasure of completely wiping out the opposition.

Using it is a bit of an exploit though, the AI is not aware of its existence so never actually uses it.

~:)

First time I noticed it I played with seleucians and divided my forces in to two only to find out that enemy attacked only the bridge .. almost lost that battle ..
later i have used it many times .. especially when I am out numbered and do not have heavy infantry to hold the bridge .. just sending the cavalry using the swallow point to attack the enemy from behind will soon create mass route and victory :2thumbsup:
this is also my fool proof strategy to destroy the senate army near rome no mather who I play :yes:

[Quirinus]

Using it is a bit of an exploit though, the AI is not aware of its existence so never actually uses it.
I was not aware of its existence either! I shall watch out for that the next time I play a bridge battle. You have no idea how much that knowledge would have helped me.... :embarassed:

[salemty]

i would like if gaul have
2 barbarian cavalry
5 swordsmen
1 warlord
2 skirmishers
and if i am the romans and i have
3 hastati
3 principes
3 velites
2 equites
1 general
what formation should i put them in? should i have hastati as the first line and the principes behind them to be the second line? but the only problem with that is the gaul put their swordsmen in a one line so they might flank my hastati and kill my equites on the flanks

CAN SOMEONE PLZ HELP ME

[Ibn-Khaldun]

when besieging a town (or large town) and the enemy sallies I tend to use my rams like a wall ..
i form a line like this:

< < < < <

< - ram (small caps between rams)

this prevents the enemy to attack my troops directly and will destroy there formation (very good thing if your enemy have lots of phalanxes) .. put your heavier troops on the flanks so you could destroy any flanking enemy units and in the middle some missile troops with units that can hold the line for some time .. when enemy finally attacks your troops you will have heavy infantry to attack there rears .. soon you will see a mass rout ..

have tried his both in vanilla and eb .. it works very well with romans but with others i'm not sure ...:inquisitive:

also against cavalry heavy armies (HA and stuff) it probably doesn't work :wall:

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

i would like if gaul have
2 barbarian cavalry
5 swordsmen
1 warlord
2 skirmishers
and if i am the romans and i have
3 hastati
3 principes
3 velites
2 equites
1 general
what formation should i put them in?I would probably reccomend lining two Hastatii and all your Principles in a row on the second line. Switch on fire at will and guard mode to keep them held in place. By doing this the enemy will find it difficult to flank with their swordsmen - for every unit of them, there is a unit on the front line to combat them.

In front of them place the Velites so they can begin the skirmish.

Behind them, I would advise assigning your unit of Hastatii to guard the flanks. Barbarian Cavalry are slightly better than Equites, so may need a little help if they do try to attack them.

Place the equites behind the hastatii and principle line with one on the left flank and one on the right. Place the general on one flank also.

The formation now looks like this:


v v v


h h p p p
e g h e


When the enemy charge forward, get the velites out of the way and to the back of the line, exposing the enemy to fire from your principles and hastatii. The foes will then charge onto your line of infantry.

When the enemy try to attack your units on the flanks (equites and/or equites and general), and all enemy cavalry units are safley out of the way. Send your velites around to flank the barbarian infantry which should be in contact with your current front line. You could leave one unit of velites around that area to help the hastatii/equites/general which are already there should they need any help. The general is your most powerful unit, so use him where the combat is going roughly or lines are collapsing.

Eventually a mass wave of routes should occur, leaving you to chase down the remaining barbarians!

~:)

[salemty]

I have a question, people seem to really like the pre marius 3 line formation with hastati first line principes second and triarii third. i dont understand were u would use this formation though. for example the enemy has more troops than you u cant use this formation becuase your units will be flanked. if he has less why not just surround him with your troops. Can someone plz tell me in what situation you would use the 3 line formation in!

[Quirinus]

Hmm... I don't, at least. I like to keep some units in reserve so that they can charge into the melee at a critical moment, stamina fresh. But the three-line formation is another thing altogether. I don't really know, but I think the people who use the three-line formation use it for maximum historical accuracy.

If I have all three classes of Roman infantry on the field, I would put the triarii at the edges, to anticipate cavalry charges at the flank, and so that as the triarii beats back the enemy troops, they can wheel around to outflank the enemy line. The hastati and principes I'd put in an alternating pattern: hastati, principes, hastati, principes and so forth.

[Brave]

I find that the historical tactics work well, you know the classics, Hammer and Anvil et al.

[shlin28]

I usually put my infantry in two lines in the middle, and all the cavalry one side, and all the skirmishers (peltasts, velites and anything mercenary that can throw something) on the other side. In all the games I have played, I have never been successfully flanked when I used this method, the large group of cavalry can smash any flanking force to pieces (and can flank the enemy too!) whilst the light infantry on the other side can throw spears and generally weaken the enemy, before charging the weakened force (and if there are no enemy flankers, I used the light infantry to flank them too. Two flanking forces = insta-heroic victory) :laugh4:

[Permenion]

I have a question, people seem to really like the pre marius 3 line formation with hastati first line principes second and triarii third. i dont understand were u would use this formation though. for example the enemy has more troops than you u cant use this formation becuase your units will be flanked. if he has less why not just surround him with your troops. Can someone plz tell me in what situation you would use the 3 line formation in!


If the enemy has more troops (and this is what i do), to prevent them from attacking your flanks

.................... P......P......P...................
..............H...........H............H..............
.....................V......V......V................
..............E E ..............G......................

(with the left hastati a bit inclined to the left and the other one to the right)
Or you can switch the hastati with the principes, but principes are stronger in defence, what makes them better to take charges... (I know this formation is historically uncorrect ) . I always put the Velites (and sometimes just spear throwing infantry like hastati) behind so they can keep on throwing while enemy is attacking the frontline. Cavalry behind for charges and prevent cavalry attacks from behind. I think you should perhaps add at least one triarii unit as support.

Note: For defending a city : (and i guarantee you this always works :D) when the enemy have to many rams to breach the wooden wall, i just put all my troops in the middle of the city, blocking the onlt 2-3 ways to get to the middle: spear infantry is very useful in this tactic

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Note: For defending a city : (and i guarantee you this always works :D) when the enemy have to many rams to breach the wooden wall, i just put all my troops in the middle of the city, blocking the onlt 2-3 ways to get to the middle: spear infantry is very useful in this tactic

Phalanx units are even better :2thumbsup:

[Spartan198]

Phalanx units are even better :2thumbsup:
You took the words right out of my mouth!

[Permenion]

Phalanx units are even better :2thumbsup:

Of course, but in salemty 's case, we're talking about Romans or Barbarians...
They don't have phalanx units there (or do they?) except some mercenaries.

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

I dont have any tactics to suggest, although a height advantage always helps. But i do have a formation you might want to try, its called the crown. It consists of 3 units of heavy cavalry, 5 units of heavy infantry, and a general behind that. The heavy cavalry charge into the enemy shield wall, doing much damage, then the infantry exploit this by attacking weakened areas and forcing the men to rout, when the enemy soldiers are along the lines of routing, charge you general straight into them and cause much damage, thus forcing them to break.

[Spartan198]

Of course, but in salemty 's case, we're talking about Romans or Barbarians...
They don't have phalanx units there (or do they?) except some mercenaries.
Technically,yes. You just have to go into the EDU and add "phalanx" to the Triarii entry.
Even after the Hastati and Principes had switched to the pilum,the Triarii retained their old hastae thrusting spears and continued to fight as hoplites.
Just one of many historical oversights by CA.

I dont have any tactics to suggest, although a height advantage always helps. But i do have a formation you might want to try, its called the crown. It consists of 3 units of heavy cavalry, 5 units of heavy infantry, and a general behind that. The heavy cavalry charge into the enemy shield wall, doing much damage, then the infantry exploit this by attacking weakened areas and forcing the men to rout, when the enemy soldiers are along the lines of routing, charge you general straight into them and cause much damage, thus forcing them to break.
That,technically,does classify as a tactic in my book. I'll have to try that out in EB,which I'm currently restricted to.

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

I also like my square bracket formation, heavy or light infantry on the front, and spears on the little edge on the side so when the flankers come they are immediately decimated by spears thus the [ Also you can put archers just behind the heavy or light infantry to draw attention away from the would be flankers

[Motep]

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/Motep_the_Great/screenshots/formation-1.jpg

Note that it is vulnerable to missile fire, so heavy cavalry is a must. Especially when dealing with onagers. thats why I use two general units, as they can take on a regular cavalry unit fairly quickly, and can then procedd to stomp on the enemy missiles. It is also virtually impenetrable to enemy units, but, just in case, it is good to have backup units. I usually take 15 phalanx, 2 archer, 1 onager, and 2 cavalry, but I grabbed to many this way and my phalanx had no supporting units. I usually have 1 or 2 units waiting within the circle for backup, and they patch when neccessary. Note that the onager is just for fun, and it does cause the enemy to lose morale and men. Please be careful when firing downhill, as the men in front of them are likely to take any misfored shots. If you do not win the battle, you will at least make sure that they lose alot of their men. More men than you lose, at any rate.

For the defense of a city:

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/Motep_the_Great/screenshots/defense_1.jpg
https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/Motep_the_Great/screenshots/defense_2.jpg
https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/Motep_the_Great/screenshots/defense_3.jpg


Self Explanitory, pretty much. Strong defense on the walls they will attack, and if that fails, a decent defence in the center. Works pretty much all of the time.

[RLucid]

I have a question, people seem to really like the pre marius 3 line formation with hastati first line principes second and triarii third. i dont understand were u would use this formation though. for example the enemy has more troops than you u cant use this formation becuase your units will be flanked. if he has less why not just surround him with your troops. Can someone plz tell me in what situation you would use the 3 line formation in!
The key is a mobile and flexible response. I've tried to learn, decisive battles attempting to set up conditions on strategic map, for a battle of annihilation, against AI which isn't planning on "running" as it's not against superior forces.

For Maneuver, you need space, and that means "air" not an unbroken phalanx style line. That lets you get your spearmen to counter attack or intercept cavalry, get the missiles into a concentrated effective fire, and have the potential of maneuver, or reinforcing spots, or even charging with the general into a flank of a "wrapping around" unit.

In ancient battles, a phalanx couldn't maneuver much once formed up, it took a long time (hence skirmishers duelling for hours whilst the Hoplites put on their armour and shields). In one battle 2 Spartan leaders refused to move when ordered by general to move from right to left flank, as they feared the disorganisation of the maneuver. Battle lost as they were hitting air, and the left flank got turned (as tended to happen) in Phalanx v Phalanx conflicts.

Except in Prologue (where they give you a balanced army to start with), I rarely am able to field an actual Velites, Hastati, Principes, Triarii formation. But I have found, my preferred deployment against the foes such maniples would face, spear warbands, samnites, light barb cavalry and some heavy noble cavalry is historically based.

On some occasions, I've repeated a battle where a shallower formation has got into difficulties, against Cavalry or Chariots and discovered that the dense-mass is more resilient. It slows and stops holding opponents forces, giving time for the pila storm to have more effect. The Roman troops are trained to turn to side on flanks so getting flanked is not fatal (so long as you can counter cavalry with spearmen) and the next line, can counter-attack the exposed flank of the less disciplined opponents, who WILL be severely disadvantaged.

Velites out in front take some FLAK in many posts, but I noticed a Gaulish army with 5 skirmisher war bands, and 5 spear warbands plus general cav, is a far tougher opponent, than the AI's double line of 5 x 2 Spear warbands plus Cav (best if you can get at the skirmishers with superior cavlary, or get them to waste their ammo). So I persevered and I try and put them, out in front, where they can dodge thrown javelins which wastes oppositions ammunition, and also signals right moment to counter-charge with the Hastati. To avoid crowding problems it's vital not to form an unbroken line, but use the chequer board and frequently squarer formations than the default layout.

Then because you can't afford to "waste" triarii, Town Watch (or other cheap light spearmen) can buffer the Heavy Cavalry charges, allowing any Trarii, or Barb mercenaries and 2nd Line Hastati (ought to be Principes) to counter-attack effectively with a charge advantage.

In some battles, I replayed experimenting with deeper deployment (opponents with lots of cavalry plus chariots who chew up a shallow wing). Not nice, but frankly Town Watch and Velites are more "expendable" than Hastati; if they get caught and take a mauling it's cheap to replace, but they stop the momentum of the opponents, and allow most of the army to unleash an overwhelming counter attack.

Other times, it's all light fire and maneuver tactics, to chew up phalanx based armies, like German Spear Warband, who'd be rather formidable against Heavy Infrantry, but are too slow without decent cavalry cover to not be crushed by the apparently frail Light Infantry plus Cavalry combo.


Not read whole thread, but you might like to experiment with a hidden "refused " flank formation, which is good to hide scarily strong forces. Buys time to absolutely annihilate a barbarian force, and bag the all important general. If you just line up, they make you attack and are likely to be able to withdraw in better order from battle field (especially if there's woods to make pursuit harder).

Semi-Hidden Refused right-flank

H
H H V__
W A tH tH V
C G T I IW

H - Hastati, V_ default spread out Velites, V block Velites, W - warband, A - Archers. t - Town Watch

C - Light Cavalry (Equties or Barb Merc), G - General HC, T - Triarii. I - Illyrian Javellin skirmishers.

The idea of this, is to screen off much of forces, and allow the Velites channels to retreat. The right flank refuses contact against the line, which allows the semi-concealed power of the Warband to sneak behind a light cavalry screen, to flank. Depending on composition of forces the strong side may be columns, rather than extra lines.

The apparent retreat, sucks in opposition frontline, who think they're winning, but then face an extremely heavy storm of pila and javelins. The Archers also get to fire obliquely into unshielded right flank of charging opponents.

Note how the Triarii in such a formation (and the General) are actually near to every point of the real line, so you have "interior lines" of communication, with the fast light warband + cavalry able to flank. Much of the Hastati pila fire is more effective than usual to, because it's thrown from a flanking oposition.

That means you can concentrate intense missile attack, a counter-charge, plus a line of fresh reserve forces to exploit the shaken barbarian opponents.

In some battles, it's quite amusing when a flanking attack by a feeble weak unit like town watch, or simply the unexpected warcry of the 3rd line of a warband hidden behind the 2nd line, that triggers the rout, when acting at the decisive moment.


Experiment with some plans, drawing impetuous light cavalry onto a screened 3rd line of spearmen for instance, by feigned retreat.

I suspect that an army like the Gauls in RTW, expects to rush and charge, and doesn't have the stamina to fight for long. Therefore, with a deeper formation, there's more time for missile fire to inflict casualties; and the troops fatigue, even if they're not directly in combat.

So long as there's Cavalry, one routing unit on the main line signals a mass panic as, every unit knows what the result will be if they dally on the battlefield.

The game behaviour is not unreasonable, the barbs are often somewhat tired to start with after a long charge, and know if they can't sweep away the opposition in a rush, that they're likely to be on wrong end of a massacre.

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

I tried to do some of your circular formations, but my men were cut down before the could get there, and p.s, why do all your phalanxes have the peasant symbols???

[TruePraetorian]

Here are the historically accurate formations I was talking about:

https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/truepraetorian/manipularformation.jpg

Here is the Hastati forming the un-broken line after the Leves retreat:

https://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii172/truepraetorian/singleline.jpg

When the Hastati get to the "winded" state, which takes forever, or the morale gets to the "shaken" state, which happens more often, I charge the princepes (still 8 ranks deep). At the same time, I turn Guard mode off for the Hastati and move them into "8 ranks deep", or however many ranks they can muster. Princepes are then made into a single line while the hastati retreat to where the Princepes were originally.

This formation is Camillan Era, Polybian is the same except without the Accensi and Rorarii. When it gets to the Marian and Imperial reforms I use the other historic formation.

[Motep]

I tried to do some of your circular formations, but my men were cut down before the could get there, and p.s, why do all your phalanxes have the peasant symbols???

Do it in the prebattle phase, before you actually click the "start battle" button. Let them come to you. If you have to move them, ctrl a them, and make sure the enemy is far away. they should move to the location and keep their formation once they set up.

They have peasant symbols because I was modding with some new skins and horses, and was too lazy to give unit cards. If it helps, I can use regular units to make it easier for you to see my setup.

[RLucid]

Here are the historically accurate formations I was talking about:

Here is the Hastati forming the un-broken line after the Leves retreat:

Nice!! But yikes!!! Unbroken line versus lots of phalanx and stand firm against
their frontal attack??

Have you tried to reduce casualties, by using mobile fire and maneuver? That was the whole point of the Roman system. Where impetuous generals, rushed under-trained newly raised troops, incapable of disciplined maneuver, was common cause for the regular heavy defeats in early part of wars, eventually leading to creation of standing pro-legion. Those checker board squares, can move front-rear, and side to side like a sliding block puzzle to assault vulnerable sides and rear.

Maneuver and flexibility was the whole point of the "articulated" Roman javelin/swordsman, with the lightly shielded Velites able to run about. It does make for a very involved battle issueing lots of orders, and you have to try to watch both sides carefully, even then with large forces, some unit gets forgotten and stupidly impale themselves.

Historically in this case phalanx spear bit into the shields, effectively disabling the HI with Gladius, and the weight of men just push them back. One battle, the Romans were saved by the phalanx catching broken rougher ground, rather than level terrain, and the difficulty of maneuvring forward in battle conditions with an unbroken line, so gaps appeared the Romans infiltrate and breach the Phalanx formations permitting them to be crumbled up and defeated at close quarters, flanked and hit in rear.


When the Hastati get to the "winded" state, which takes forever, or the morale gets to the "shaken" state, which happens more often, I charge the princepes (still 8 ranks deep).
Doesn't hit & run tactics work? Against German Spear Warband army of about 15 units, a weaker combined arms force was able to totally annihilate the attackers, by "cowardly" practice of using Velites and Hastati as bait, attracting attention, then retreating and maneuvring to attack in flank and rear. Combined with some Equites cav charges from rear of about to engage Phalanx.

Because of the quincunx, any frontally assaulted troops could withdraw covered by pila & javelins of other lines, whilst the fast light infantry engage from flank and rear.

If the Phalanx tries to keep a line, then using fast forces pref Cav, but can be relay of light troops to shift them and force them to wheel, tires out the end of the line. An unbroken line, has to constantly re-form and line up, slowing them down yet furher. If you think about it, then a deep column type formation can stall the whole front if necessary, and if they break formation then there's gaps for mobile forces to exploit (which was key in the Macedonians combined arms armies which defeated phalanx using mixed light missile, as well as more mobile, more lightly shielded Phalangists with Sarissas.

A Cav superiority is extremely desirable, which may have to be engineered by preparatory "sneak" attacks on any screening cavalry, by a heavier amoured, or numerically superior concentrated force. Or a ploy of offering bait, which retreats behind spearmen, to turn in the nick of time and charge, the engaged pursuers from exposed flank or rear.

Again choosing suitable ground for the battle field helps. If the warband have to cross a bridge, then there's opportunity for softening up with missiles, from flank as they cross, and more chance of defeating in detail as the superior force have to radiate outwards to gain space to deploy the rest of their units.

There's a neat tactical battle by Philip II of Macedon, where the Mac phalanx wing, made a tactical retreat of their phalanx line, back onto the raised bank of the river. This created a gap, which Alexander the Great, could breach with Companion cavalry and support a sudden counter-charge downhill by the Mac phalanx forces, with attacks against flank & rear. The Theban Sacred band, didn't shift off their strong position on hill on their right wing, which meant they could just be pinned by light troops, then surrounded by the Companions from rear, in preparation (probably) for annihilation where they stood by light Infantry missile fire.

[salemty]

what battle formation do u guys use at the start of the jullii campaign when you only have 6 units or so? also what formation do u use when outnumbered

[RLucid]

Discussed this in your formation thread. Hopefully you noticed the Quincunx Manipular legion screenshot TruePretorian posted in this thread, showing the Chequierboard.

6 units presume you're concerned with Jullii. You can reinforce and build for first battle. The main lack, is spearmen. Samnite merc are available, and can see off Light cavalry, but suffer against Heavy Cavalry, and aren't good Infantry fighters, nor well armoured for jobs where missile fire has to be endured.

So screen with the Velites, mission to goad enemy into a charge so they run and tire themselves, or waste skirmisher warbands missiles before main battle. Open formation troops who weren't distracted could doge incoming, as javellins and arrows were visible in the air. Close order was a very different matter however.

Have a front line of Hastati, chuck pila & counter-charge when the Velites retreat. Protect your archers, with the Triariii, and use low quality spearmen, like TownWatch who act as rearguard (hold off cavalry attacks from rear) or charge stoppers if Noble Heavy Cavalry takes a tilt into your formation, trying to cause havoc amongst the archers. Once cavalry is stopped and fixed, then it can be destroyed. So your spearmen move to where enemy cavalry are heading.

The General unit, should not only try to provoke a rout during main engagement, and reinforce weak area battered by enemy General, but can draw cavalry pre-battle onto spearmen, so once fixed they can be destroyed by a charge. They may also draw off spear warbands, so they cannot return in time for main battle, or arrive tired. Just try to ensure they have some rests to become Fresh.

[Spartan198]

what battle formation do u guys use at the start of the jullii campaign when you only have 6 units or so? also what formation do u use when outnumbered
Well,I'll typically scout around for mercenaries to compliment what I have and swell my ranks.
But when I'm outnumbered,I use an arrow formation: I refuse my flanks while advancing my center into the enemy's own. It helps to prevent a numerically superior foe from outflanking me. Though I'm not always victorious when doing so...

[RLucid]

Yes. Looking for impassable terrain where you can attach a flank to, or simply discourage cavalry from using (like a wood), also helps. Because you can then concentrate units better for a counter-attack once the barb front lines tire.

A dense formation on a slope, helps considerably due to increased missile effectiveness, and perhaps cavalry counter-attack charges gain force, as they go faster.

Out ranging enemy missiles matters, you want to force them to charge, rather than rest before attacking.

Weakened light cavalry units make good bait, and may let you chop up 1 or 2 oppositon units, and get back in formation before the main force arrives. This might be most effective way to spring an ambush, minimising risk associated with more thinly spread forces. If you can defeat the enemy cavalry, then the consequences of losing are reduced, you may be able to withdraw almost all forces in good order, whilst cavalry give the enemy army the run around, and look for openings to defeat isolated units.

[salemty]

even when outnumbered i usually use the double line. as i usually routes three units before contact with first line. then i route at least another 2 units they send around to attack flanks of first line because just as their about to attack first lines flanks i charge them in rear with cavalry or with some units from second line. then when enemy about to route i charge my second line in and move cavalry to flanks causing mass route. when facing enemy with cavalry superioty i use my second line to hold them in place if about to flank then attack with my general and some of my own cavalry. this formation works extremely well againts barbs. but i seem to have some trouble against phalnxes. anyone got any tips for me when versing phalanxes?

[Spartan198]

but i seem to have some trouble against phalnxes. anyone got any tips for me when versing phalanxes?
The most basic way to defeat a phalanx from the front is with another phalanx of better-quality troops.
But other than that,your best weapon is a cavalry (preferably elephants,but any heavy cavalry will do) or heavy infantry (Legionaries,barbarian axemen,etc.) to either flank or rear. And if numbers are on your side,try to outnumber and attack from multiple directions with multiple units (ie,my tactic of charging three legionary cohorts or other heavy melee infantry at both flanks and the rear will cut a phalanx to pieces within a few minutes).
Alternatively,larger numbers of archers,peltasts,and slingers will tire out phalanxes to the very edge of fleeing.

[salemty]

what would be a good formation to defeat a phalanx as romans for example, double line, manipular or maybe just a single line and try to out moneavoure the enemy?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

what would be a good formation to defeat a phalanx as romans for example, double line, manipular or maybe just a single line and try to out moneavoure the enemy?I would be tempted to say a big long line of infantry with cavalry on the flanks. Send some cavalry to charge repeatedly into the back of the phalanxes and, eventually, they should run for their lives.

If they are outnumbered, a long line also allows you to use the troops which are not engaged to encircle them.

A double line isn't as useful in this sort of situation. Infantry vs. the front of a phalanx is not going to result in an infantry victory - even if two units are used. The infantry are mainly troops used to hold the enemy in place, while the cavalry go around the backs.

~:)

[Spartan198]

what would be a good formation to defeat a phalanx as romans for example, double line, manipular or maybe just a single line and try to out moneavoure the enemy?
Vanilla RTW,right? I'm a modder,so I simply edited the files to give Triarii the phalanx (which they historically used) and make them recruitable after the Marian Reforms,but that's just personal preference.
Speaking strictly vanilla- and post-Marian-wise (prior to the reforms,the Greeks and Macedonians weren't very much a threat to my own expansion),my best successes came with massed Legionary / Early Legionary Cohorts. The thing about AI hoplite armies is that we can count on them to advance in a single line,which can be used against them.
What I used to do most commonly was to auto-form my legionaries into a double line,then spread the wings of the second line out like so:


(X: Legionaries)

XXXXXX

XXX_______XXX

(Now it shows the right formation layout. Sorry.)

I'm not famliar with your volume of cavalry usage,but this tactic reflects little to none available,as post-Marian cavalry can be quite expensive.
Phase 1: Now,what you do is set the first line to file their pila at will when the enemy gets within range,but DON'T charge them. The first line is your proverbial shield wall,which stops their advance.
Now you will suffer casualties,but how many depends on how fast you are in the following:
Phase 2: charge your wings out and around behind the hoplites,and set them to fire at will (this is where pausing comes in handy) so that they pelt their pila into the enemy's rear. Once ammo's run out,just charge them home into the enemy ranks,attempting (if possible) to target each specific Cohort on a single specific phalanx,that way no stragglers can break off to flank you (not that they'd really make a difference anyway).


(X: Legionaries; O: Phalanxes)
XXXXXX
OOOOOO
XXXXXX

Once you've got them sandwiched in,it's pretty much over because the enemy hoplites will discard their spears and resort to their swords. The length of the following slaughter will vary depending on the experience,weapon,and armor ratings of the troops.
Archers,slingers,and peltasts can be useful prior to the heavy infantry engagement to thin ranks,but don't let them engage once the main event has started unless you're willing to sacrifice some of your men for the greater good.
And if you have any cavalry,you can use them accordingly to attack the enemy's exposed flanks like so if you wish,but the engagement will most likely be yours by now.


(X: Legionaries; O: Phalanxes; C: Cavalry)
XXXXXX
C ---> OOOOOO <--- C
XXXXXX

As far as siege artillery with this tactic,it can be used to wreak havok on your advancing enemy just like missile troops,but I wouldn't recommend it as they're not all that accurate (especially onagers) and can inflict very severe friendly casualties.

Good luck.

[RLucid]

Phalanxes are easy to defeat, so long as you can overcome opposing cavalry, and suppress missile forces accompanying the Phalanxes. I have good wins even when the battle odds aren't looking favourable.

[ I do like the Triarii - Phalanx option mod idea, as it was historically accurate, role to provide a stable defensive line, to permit regrouping of main Hastati & Principe forces. Caesar also thinned out Triarii line, in order to provide support to outclassed cavalry on a wing. I suspect though, having it on (especially with guard mode) would interfere with main role of Jullii Triarii unit, the slowness and lack of aggression diminishing their anti-cav effectiveness when counter-charging in battle. ]

Phalanx Thread - https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45334
The last page has some discussion of anti-phalanx tactics.

You need open ground (not a wood), so you can see what's going on in the battle, particularly if it's German spearmen who have a wood bonus.

Tend to turn off auto-fire (to make every shot count maximum), and use lots of missile troops, using manuever, fire & maneuver tactics. Only cavalry charge into rear, after a Phalanx is softened up and also focussed on unit in front (almost but not quite engaged), you want it to rout almost immediately. You are much less likely to take significant losses, once the spearmen are intimidated, and feel on wrong end of it. I have lost too many Generals, on occasions I've had to use the generally recommended tactic of Hammer & Anvil, without the missile preliminaries.

Use Quincunx style formations heavy in light mobile missile troops. Your attacked units, should make oblique retretaing movements, to disorganise the Phalanx wall and have them present flanks to 2nd lines. The skirmishers, do the main damage, but the presence of HI is essential to act as a threat. The Light cavalry will bag routers, and take most of the kills.

Once several Phalanxes are routing, the others are likely to turn tail under fire, without even making contact with your line. Then you can charge with skirmishers and main infantry, to keep them running so cavalry can mop up. Late on it's a matter of loosely surrounding the intact Phalanxes, and taking opportunities to catch them flank & rear.

I like to have a Velites in front of the Phalanx, they can gain attention, then reliabily retreat back without impaling themselves in a macho display on the spears. If I screw up, and spears make contact, the open formation of Velites, offers fewer men up for slaughter, and they are clever enough to retreat, rather than try and slug it out, when ordered. The Phalanx is then fixed, as if they turn or retreat they serve up their backs to a javellin storm. That means plenty of opportunity for HI to maneuver and engage on flank, just after another missile unit maneuvers and softens them up with a volley.

Don't deploy statically, but deploy forward, with idea that you will retreat (running sometimes if necessary). Get them from flank and rear with Javellins and Pila.

Once the Phalanx is softened up, Infantry attacking from flank or rear will cave them to pieces and put them to rout. Chase with light fast troops like Velites and Equites, to stop them regrouping.

The battle is more challenging to keep control of, as it will get quite messy with units heading off in all directions; but the basic weakness of Phalanx, which is it's slow maneuver makes them the least dangerous opponents to face on the battlefield.

[salemty]

ive just finished a campaign as julii, found it pretty easy. only problem i had was those british light chariots. id try to kil em with my velites but as soon as they were within range theyd run away shoutin at my velites nnearly makin em route. anyone know how i can kill these brit light chariots?

[Spartan198]

ive just finished a campaign as julii, found it pretty easy. only problem i had was those british light chariots. id try to kil em with my velites but as soon as they were within range theyd run away shoutin at my velites nnearly makin em route. anyone know how i can kill these brit light chariots?
Archers and flaming arrows.
And elephants,if you have'em,can scare them.

[RLucid]

ive just finished a campaign as julii, found it pretty easy. only problem i had was those british light chariots. id try to kil em with my velites but as soon as they were within range theyd run away shoutin at my velites nnearly makin em route. anyone know how i can kill these brit light chariots?
Repeating the answer given in other threads...

Velites & Illyrians Javellin troops can sufficed, buttressed by dense formations of cheap troops, like Town Watch who fix the chariots. The problem with skirmishers in game, is that skirmish mode can retreat them into wrong place, and if they are running back & forth the troops get exhausted. Retreating skirmishers, will rout if they are constantly pursued by any Cavalry unit. You find it best to turn skirmish mode off, except for those stuck out front to keep the chariots away from frontline Infantry. The skirmishers out in front, may have the Chariots attack them, but because they loose they're slow to mop up, so masses of other Javellin units need to counter attack aiding the victim unit, that's engaged by chariots.

Velites in open formation out in front can waste skirmishing Light Chariots archer fire, rather than have them score lots of hits softening up a unit of hastati, and frightening it if they're allowed up close.

You really need a skeleton, that's provided by dense blocks of HI and cheap spearmen, who do OK against the chariots horses, to fix the mobile units, in order to counter attack. Then you need Cavalry to destroy routing chariot units, rather than let them regroup, or fight again on another day.

It also helps to set up ambushes for Briton armies, if they're in column, then you can take out the initial Chariot vanguard, luring it into a killing zone. With hidden units making surprise attack and main Infantry supported by some Javellin men cutting off retreat.

[salemty]

hi im only playing on medium as julii ive read heaps of guides but i still seem to be losing battles quite often even when i outnumbere the enemy. my main problem is i usually set up in a double line with barb mercs on flanks and cavalry next to them. and the enemy quite often takes half his army to one flank, kills my cavary routes my barb mercs and by the time my other hastati get there im at an extrme disadvantage, someone plz help me cause`whenever the enemy do this i seem to lose the battle

[Darkvicer98]

Spread out your infantry so they cover more ground and put missile units behind them. Put your calvary behind your infantry as well. Let them come to you then charge them when they get close. Use you calvary to take out their missile units and calvary. Hope this helps.

[RLucid]

hi im only playing on medium as julii ive read heaps of guides but i still seem to be losing battles quite often even when i outnumbere the enemy. my main problem is i usually set up in a double line with barb mercs on flanks and cavalry next to them. and the enemy quite often takes half his army to one flank, kills my cavary routes my barb mercs and by the time my other hastati get there im at an extrme disadvantage, someone plz help me cause`whenever the enemy do this i seem to lose the battle
Re-read my past previous posts in response to yours on formations.

My set ups, often have 3 lines and I emphasised spearmen supporting the cavalry who can fall back behind them. Rear line units counter-attacking appropriate enemy on flank or through gaps in formation. Cavalry like to be moving, and charge in onto an already engaged unit, or mop up light infantry units without spears, and chase down (or off field) routers.

I prefer as Juliii keeping forces together densely in depth, but with space to maneuver between units. Spreading them out thinner would worsen the issues of having 1 part attacked first. I also tend to use Cavalry forces aggressively maneuvering early in battle, aiming to achieve local superiority against enemy cavalry, or to rout skirmishers the AI often sticks on flanks. Look for opportunities to counter-attack enemy on flank, from centre, moving other units to plug holes.

Try to not have 1:1 unit fights, but engineer significant advantages, where there's contact. Missile units are ideal force multipliers, giving Hastati and Spearmen a battle winning advantage, against enemy infantry and cavalry respectively.

[Xenopusbruteovum]

Yeah, generals are worth their weight in Saphron :2thumbsup:
Is that good or bad? Are you being sarcastic?

[Xenopusbruteovum]

Roman army:

1 General unit, rarely a family member (I enabled recruitable generals for all factions)
4 early legionary cohorts ( Outer provinces rarely have high level barracks to recruit regulars)
5-6 legionary cohorts (5 if I have 1st cohort) trained from high level citys to help economy
2 roman cavalry of any kind
3 archer auxillia
2 infantry auxillia for flanks
2 Heavy/regular Onagers


I group my Legionarys in a double line, alternating regs and earlys:
|reg| |early| |reg| |early| |first|
|reg| |early| |reg| |early| |reg|

I then have my archers and onagers infront set to fire at will, onagers use flame. My auxillia are on the flanks with the cavalry outside of them. When my archers start firing, I prepare to move my double line forward to keep the archers and onagers inbetween them. I set the font row to fire at will, and let the enemy charge. They usually break fast. The flanks are great because of the cav/spear combo, which also allows me to flank the enemy. My general sits behind the lines. If my front ranks retreat, my second ranks immediatly charge without throwing pilla. When one of them is wavering, I general charge while using his rally button. This is actually a historic legion...it works fantastically and is cheap to maintain. Of course it post-marian, for pre-marian I use the historical 3 lines. Also, to beat you cowardly greeks and macedonians, I throw both pilla then charge both ranks to a spot behind the hoplites, causing a few casualties but once they get in deep enough your men's spears are too long to reach me :laugh4: and the legionars prevail at H2H. That was defensive (which is smarter to play for this setup) For offense, I simply move to within range of onagers, unload ammo, archer range, unload ammo, the pilla range and unload both ranks' pilla before charging...no one can stop that. :whip:
How does one enable recriutable generals, and to what advantage?

[Xenopusbruteovum]

I use heavy infantry single line in the middle, missiles in back, general in center back, light or heavy cavalry on flanks. I attack missiles with cavalry, or flank to the back and drive home to their infantry. I attack infantry with cavalry at all times whenever possible from the back. Flaming missiles always unless N.A. It sounds like a trite set-up, but it has worked for me. I do not know how to effectively reduce Egyptian heavy chariots. Any tips?

[Quintus.JC]

I do not know how to effectively reduce Egyptian heavy chariots. Any tips?

Use missiles to engage Egyptian Chariots, especially Javelin throwning troops have bonus V.S Chariots. Chariots counts as heavy cavalry so spear infantry could work as well. Omanes could of definitly helped you out on this one, pity he's on holiday though.

[Darkvicer98]

With chariots,brittania and Egyptian. When i face them my army's get butchered but when i be the egyptians or brittania they always lose. Including the missile chariots. I'm only good with phalanxes because i know every weakness and how to use them.