View Full Version : Conquering the whole map : NOT REALISTIC AT ALL!
Hi all!
I was just thinking :
In medieval time, conquering or even trying to conquerer the entire Europe was not realistic, nor possible.
It seems stupid to think that Spain would have conquered northern Germany or Scandinavia ....
Same as France or England in Greece or Middle-East for a long period of time....
Conquering the whole map in this game is not realistic, not historially accurate. In real life it was IMPOSSIBLE.
In Stw the situation was different, and conquering the map, the whole map was historialy accurate... not in MTW IMHO.
(only exception : Byzantium I think.
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"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."
Thats true, thats why im camping in a corner in M:TW ...
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Cheaters never win and winners never cheat!
oZoNeLaYeR
09-21-2002, 16:25
Doh! this is a bloody game, this is not a HISTORIC game ffs, yes it has some degree of historic lessons... just play the damn game and enjoy it.
Yes but im an historican, and I can't play without some of the true history in historic games. Its something with my brain...
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Cheaters never win and winners never cheat!
Rosacrux
09-21-2002, 16:38
Hmm... get a new one, perhaps? Brain, or Game? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
The game never tries to be historically accurate. No more than, say, Civilization sets itself up as a simulation of human history. MTW is basically a complicated board game with a medieval theme or setting, taking it as more and you're expecting the impossible with the rules and game mechanics at your disposal.
Yes, but its like when I played Sid Meyer's Colonization when I was the english I placed the colonies there they were in the real history. On the real world map.. =D Im crazy... I release this stupidity when Im playing shoot them up games like Day of Defeat.
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Cheaters never win and winners never cheat!
The golden horde could have conqured europe
the Count of Flanders
09-21-2002, 17:22
Play the game in glorious achievement style and problem solved.
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Proud member of the OOOO (http://www.oooo.freewebspace.com)
WE KNOW ITS NOT REALISTIC! STOP ****ING WHINGING! ITS A ****ING GAME! BRAVEHEART WAS A ****ING FILM! IT IS NOT REAL LIFE! YOU ARE NOT THE KING OF ENGLAND/FRANCE/WHOEVER!! YOU ARE A SPOTTY/ACNE FREE TEENAGER/ADULT!!! GO OUT AND GET SOME FRESH AIR!!!
...oh i can be agressive when i want...
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Stu35s MTW Site - Hints,Lists,Facts,And Porn (http://www.angelfire.com/games4/mtw) (one of those is a lie)
http://www.geocities.com/wolflord_uk/stu35
Alba Gu Bragh
KampfBar Ritter
09-21-2002, 20:28
How about letting some steam off by playing the game, let go of your agression there.
I agree it's just a game but what was stated was only an opinion http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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All my actions are dedicated to the memory of my great Lord Frederick I who one day knighted a poor woodsman and man-at-arms. Ich der Salut der mutig Barbarossa
[This message has been edited by KampfBar Ritter (edited 09-21-2002).]
Stu, seriously now, we dont need that.
Draksen, the game creators thrive to meake it more realistic than historically accurate.
Thats like asking someone to Starcraft "futuristically accurate" I mean cmon, its not gonna happen.
Complaining gets you no where on these boards. I have learned that from experience http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
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What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby? Maybe we'll never know.
Check on the mods (see the mods forum). The "Rebel Dawn" mod diminishes the amount of conquering going on...
Better yet, do your own mod.
Pachinko
09-21-2002, 22:51
Stu....You need some happy pills dude!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Actually, your right.
The idea behind Medieval is that you write your own history. We give you a start point that's based in history (but, with the magic of modern entertainment, also takes a few liberties) and challenge you to achieve a goal. The goal being total domination of the map.
If we'd wanted the game to be highly realistic historically, we would have given you a series of historical campaigns to play rather than the let you play on the campaign map. If we'd wanted to be anally realistic historically we would have told you to recreate exactly what happened in the battles down to the smallest detail, and made sure you lost if you deviated at all from what actually happened. And maybe one person worldwide would have wanted to play it like that.
We've said it before that it's just a game. We're not pretending that we're trying to educate you guys when you play the game. Are you saying that it's unrealistic to amalgamate the whole of Europe and bits of Africa into one huge Empire because it never happened during the Medieval time period? Well that's true, but lots of people gave it a fair stab and that's what we're encouraging here.
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"i even suspect Target is coming here to hype things up."
MagyarKhans Cham
If I have posted this, this is because the game is so accurate (or at least it seems so) in the other "parts" : units, diplomacy, taxes, religions ... that I am a bit disappointed with the fact that we can "invade" Europe like that, so simply.
Just thinking ... : how can England, for example, raise such a big army ??? same thing for France ???
oh, of course, they can "use" foreign armies or mercenaries... but it is difficult ... very difficult ...
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"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."
Quote Originally posted by Draksen:
Hi all!
I was just thinking :
In medieval time, conquering or even trying to conquerer the entire Europe was not realistic, nor possible.
It seems stupid to think that Spain would have conquered northern Germany or Scandinavia ....
Same as France or England in Greece or Middle-East for a long period of time....
Conquering the whole map in this game is not realistic, not historially accurate. In real life it was IMPOSSIBLE.
In Stw the situation was different, and conquering the map, the whole map was historialy accurate... not in MTW IMHO.
(only exception : Byzantium I think.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think anything is impossible. The Romans conquered most of the known world, needless to say it took many lifetimes. I agree with Xer0 in principle at least about the Mongol Horde.
To do it would merely require a faction to make the right allies and 'think outside the box' - taking a Roman or Mongol or Napoleonic approach to warfare instead of the rather short-sighted and limited approach taken by most leaders in the time. In short, it would need a revolutionary leader. Granted, this age was one in which it would be difficult for such a leader to rise, let alone make the changes that would be needed to succeed...but it is still possible.
Just my opinion,
Jaguara
LittleGrizzly
09-22-2002, 05:02
i agree with jag here course it could be possible say france and germany have been at war for many years uk builds up large army and takes both...... (example)
Right i been diving, i calm now...
Quote how can England, for example, raise such a big army ??? [/QUOTE]
That is a very good point, the English never really relied on their Large Armies, rather the skill of their soldiers... in fact the British have ALWAYS been like that... and still are.
... but its a game, so i can live with it
Anyway
Quote Napoleonic approach to warfare [/QUOTE]
Meh, Napoleon bit off more than he could chew going after Allies of the British (along with the Kaiser and Hitler http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif ).
that last remark didnt really have a point...
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Stu35s MTW Site - Hints,Lists,Facts,And Porn (http://www.angelfire.com/games4/mtw) (one of those is a lie)
http://www.geocities.com/wolflord_uk/stu35
Alba Gu Bragh
Rocket_Boy
09-22-2002, 07:13
I see Medieval as a historial what if?. O.k. you argue that it is unrealistic that England of whatever country could conquer all of Europe, but I say that with the right luck, personalities, circumstances and did I mention luck, any of the playable nations (some more likely than others) 'could' have done this. Who can say I'm wrong? With a slightly different outcome 60 Yrs ago we could all be speaking German now.
As the player, you can be that random factor, the inspiration, and I think that thats what makes the game great.
Plus If you want to play the game on GA mode you can still win even if you don't play like a complete warmonger. Theoretially I'd imagine that its possible to play the game without your faction involved in a single battle (very small odds I do admit).
Historicaly "what ifs" are exactly the point.
The English King was from the Normandy, which is a part of France. What if the English King would have married a French Prinzesse and the King of France (and his Sons) would have died. What if the French would have accepted the English King as the ruling body of France, because of some gret politicaly play by the english ???
What if the Neandertals would have survived ?
We all know history quite well ... its the unlimited amount of posibillities that games like MTW exploit.
You don´t think Emperor Constantins defense of Constantinople vs. the Turks was clever ? Do a better job ! ;-)
In expert mode, it takes around 100 years at the least to conquer the entire Europe. That means you need at least 2-3 generations of extremely good leaders. Most good leaders in history are succeeded by either a.) one idiot or b.) 2 or more squabbling geniuses. That's why most who had a chance to conquer the entire Europe conquered it halfway through, died, and their empire disintegrated in a short time.
You also need to factor in your subjects adjusting to a new leadership style which makes the conquering process longer.
Emperor Romanus IV
09-22-2002, 13:34
yeah i agree with andrewt,take the byzantine empire 4 example,when the Emperor Basil II died,the empire was very strong and the treasury was filled with a whole lot of gold.
a good ruler who had the interests of the empire at heart,who succeeded at this point in time would have been able to expand the empire to a greater degree.yet the empire was passed to his aged brother constantine who only indulged in the pursuit of pleasures.His daugthers and their husbands were no better,which caused the empire to miss a magnificent opportunity to extend it's borders.
Thus we have the beauty of this game,to not only assume a historical position,but to rewrite it in the way we deem fit.
Quote Originally posted by andrewt:
In expert mode, it takes around 100 years at the least to conquer the entire Europe. That means you need at least 2-3 generations of extremely good leaders. Most good leaders in history are succeeded by either a.) one idiot or b.) 2 or more squabbling geniuses. That's why most who had a chance to conquer the entire Europe conquered it halfway through, died, and their empire disintegrated in a short time.
[/QUOTE]
This is a really good point!
IMHO, the problem is not to conquer, but to keep the conquered lands.
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http://www.saosnois.com/blasons/blason-normand.gif
"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."
[This message has been edited by Draksen (edited 09-22-2002).]
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