View Full Version : Just re-installed/played SHOGUN ... I really don\'t know what to think
Hi all Total War players !
(Note : I have written TotalWar players and not MTW players ...)
I have, 4 hours ago, re-installed Shogun+MI, and have played for almost 3 hours with it...
First, I want to say that the two games are not so different, but although STW has not the complexity in military and diplomatic units of MTW ...
I like STW a little more, and I can't explain why. It is more a general feeling, perhaps because of the atmosphere.
And although I like MTW, I think that the game, because of the developpement tree, the size of the map, the complexity of the economic things ... is too big. I always feel like playing chess.
(understand me well : chess is a good strategy game, but too complex for being a simple "game" just for having fun).
Am I the only one with this feeling ?
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"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."
Mithrandir
09-22-2002, 03:35
In MTW it takes a long time to move up the tech tree, which I dont really like...
and I have many times, I like the original better than the sequel, not sure this time, but I'll post again when I'm sure http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif.
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Check out the Fantasy Total War mod! (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000587.html)
I have also difficulties to know why ... I keep thinking.
Thx for your reply.
yes ...
STW,
STW:MI,
or MTW ... ?
I guess STW, after all, was the best. Just my humble opinion, of course.
But like I have written in my previous post : the battle aspect of the game is the same. The overall idea is the same too.
...
Don't know...
Last thing : look at the spears of the Yari Samurai of ST ... they look great. 300 times better than the spearmen of MTW... once more just IMHO, of course.
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"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."
I remember, the YS of STW, now that was a force that looked like it could stop heavy cavalry http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Seriously though, one thing I don't like about MTW compared to the original is that they changed the look of the graphics, made them look a bit more cozy - I did prefer the more uncluttered STW look campaign map...it kind of feels...well...more simple, more direct, more grown up, more like...total war
You have described it better than me Whitney.
STW/STWMI were 50% battle, 50% strategy/diplomacy/economy...
MTW is 20% battle, 80% other things.
It's more micro-managing.
It has killed the "dynamical" aspect of the game. It is now closer to a traditional board-game or a panzer-general like game.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
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"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."
Quote Originally posted by Draksen:
You have described it better than me Whitney.
STW/STWMI were 50% battle, 50% strategy/diplomacy/economy...
MTW is 20% battle, 80% other things.
It's more micro-managing.
It has killed the "dynamical" aspect of the game. It is now closer to a traditional board-game or a panzer-general like game.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
[/QUOTE]
...and since MP only offers battle-mode...I love that. I hardly played any single-player on Shogun/MI, boring - most of it was battle-mode fighting which I might as well play online for.
MTW has a greater diplomacy/strategic side...like it...since MP doesn't offer it!
Tera.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
I agree on that point :
MTW is better for multiplayer.
But as I play almost only single player, I found a better "campaign-war-atmospher" in STW.
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"Futatsu ni kasanete, yotsu ni kiru !"
I agree that there is FAR too much micromanagment in MTW, too many damned emmisaries and princesses running around too!
But the battles make up for it... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
I REALLY likes MTW's battles better than STW's. Mainly because of the diversity, like muslim armies, east european and west european armies always look quite different. And the fact that I finished the STW map before I even got Heavy Cavalery is also al plus for MTW. It is bigger, larger, grander and generally, more COMPLECATED, that is the word we are looking for...
STW was in all honesty quite simple, MTW IS NOT simple!
I like MTW much better than Shogun, and I loved Shogun. I love the diversity of units, and the fact that the sides are very different. You can't use the same tactics when playing as the Byzants or the English, or the French or the Turks. And you can't use the same tactics when fighting the Byzants, the English, the French or the Turks. The diversity of units and factions is one of the game's great strengths, and the developers are to be commended for their work in this area.
Grifman
MTW has a great potential to grow up to. I suppose a lot of tuning will happened in the patch and then in an add-on. Remember the first STW release? It was great but not polished. It took some time to become MI with the patches.
Nothing will ever beat Shogun because it is first for me. It was so original. I marvelled at the ideas. The game had such a great feel. Those special movies and the throne room and the Japanese music all led to such immersion. I would sit and eat Japanese food and play for hours...
That said, MTW is a great game. It isn't reinventing the wheel but I certainly play hours of it!
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"Everything Shiro said sounds good to me."
-Solypsist
i like the cavalry archers (all of them, from the boyars of the russian steppes, to the mounted crossbowmen of the french army), a lot better - in STW i couldnt really get a grasp of using them, in MTW my ability to micromanage battles has become so much better from just playing around with the types of cavalry archers (i can actually use armies with 5-6 units of mounted crossbowmen to devastating affect against most armys - including ones with light cav).
I think MTW, the campaign is grander, but i think that it could have been... i dont know, tidied up a bit, Micromanagment could have been made a bit less, and the AI improved a hell of a lot if they put a bit of effort in it (i didnt make the game, i dont know how difficult it could possibly be to make the Campaign AI a little less... retarded).
I like MTW a lot better, the diversity of the whole thing... the campaign... the battles... the map editor...
It is just so much grander... looking back it would be so easy to say, STW was a shitty piece of crap not worth my attention, but of course i know this to be false...
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Alba Gu Bragh
DragonCat
09-22-2002, 07:27
I can't find much fault with either of them. STW stayed in my CD drive for a VERY long time. MTW is proving to do the same. I haven't taken it out yet!
As for moving up the tech tree. I played my first scenario in Early Age. Then one in Middle Age and just started one in Late Age. Feels just like I'm moving up the tech tree, LOL.
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DragonCat
. . . on the prowl!
Quote Originally posted by Shiro:
Japanese music all led to such immersion. I would sit and eat Japanese food and play for hours...
[/QUOTE]
But now you'll be able to eat so much more types of food... pizza, sour kraut and sausage, Fish n chips, kurry over rice, have a stien of beer with your meal, spaghetti, escargot, cream puff... menu can be almost endless.... but no hotdogs, meat loaf or apple pie, that game hasn't come out yet.
Sorry not to get off topic... I like the fact that you can record your battles in MTW I wish I could have done this for the other games.
[This message has been edited by dej2 (edited 09-22-2002).]
RabidMonkey
09-22-2002, 08:52
The biggest difference between MTW and STW is the strategy map, and what i loved most about STW was the strategy map. It was like chess, incredibly simple to look at but underneath just enough strategy to keep you playing for hours.
And the tech tree: plz explain the point of having 100 units that are all the same, only a few small stat changes different? Why when you upgrade the bowyers workshop do u get a crossbowmen with a pavise, they needed a whole new level of technology to make a shield?!? Shogun made so much more sense, a higher tech dojo, more experienced teacher equals a more experienced unit! I love playing this game but STW is still the best!
Agree with you RabidMonkey. Being an ex soldier: TRAINING and weapons make good troops. STW dojos ware fairly realistic. With shit troops an appearance of Keanu Rives ( 9+ valor) as a general will not make them super troops and start dodging bullets and swords as in “The Matrix”.
MajorPain
09-22-2002, 09:56
I loved and still love STW. The MP is great with no "super" units that I know of.
MI´s SP were/are better then STW cause the building time are only half the time then in STW and they are cheaper
MTW is a good game I cant compare the MP with the other TW games cause I havent been able to play it online. SP games are worse then STW cause you have to build so many buildings to get a specefic unit. And the building take to long to build exept for the first and second level buildings, but when u get up to fourth and fifth level then it take to long time to build. and then the whole war end at 1450-something. Big plus for MTW is that the map is big and that you need ships to transport your troops.
So STW will still be on top. Sequals never are as good as the first one, even in films, its more like they have copied the first one then added some other stuff.
If they cut down the year to seasons like in the other TW games, give alot more diplomatic options and cut down on the building time or they got rid of the fifth level buildings it would be a much more greater game, maybe as good as the original STW.
In STW units' stats and purposes were clear, very clear : the cavalry wins vs archer, the archer wins vs yari and yari wins vs cavalry. ok, clear.
But in MTW, I must admit that I am ... lost.
10X more infantry units, 10X more archers ... what should I build ? what should I use ?
Is there, somewhere, a table of all units vs all units... a kind of : A wins vs B, C, and D and C is stronger than D against B ...
or something like that ?
A detailed table I mean ... ?
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"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."
why are people always wanting to know what they SHOULD build?
you were given 100 units for a reason... and that reason was not so you could find the best 3 and use them soley...
besides Billmen, Mounted Crossbowmen and Alan Mercenary Cavalry are invincible...
well not really...
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Stu35s MTW Site - Hints,Lists,Facts,And Porn (http://www.angelfire.com/games4/mtw) (one of those is a lie)
http://www.geocities.com/wolflord_uk/stu35
Alba Gu Bragh
Well I like M:TW better cauz im so tierd of Japan and their Samurajs but S:TW is the game who started it all and has a special place in my heart. :þ I played my last S:TW campaign for 1 month ago as Oda(Never been them). But it was the very last time.
I like everything in M:TW exept the Elmo Heads and that you can move units to spain from Africa witout boat as France to England and Denmark to Sweden. And I know I can download a mod but I dont like mods in this game I want the original and best....
Take care..
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