View Full Version : Creative Assembly Sweden and The Vikings!
When I started this game I got pisst. The first thing I saw was that Sweden wasnt playable. What kind of bull is that?
I guess that the makers of this game thought that the Swedish vikings were unimportant.
They only founded Russia, traded with India(the lived in scandinavia!)burned Paris once or twice, founded a few other kingdoms in east Europe besides Russia, conquered Constantinople(or however you spell it) a few times, it was the biggest city in the world and the capital of the eastern Roman Empire. Briefly said they terrorised Europe for 200-300 years together with their fellow Vikings, Denmark and Norway and they were one of the first kingdoms in Europe.
One other thing, the Goths(there are gothic units in the game, Germany and Russia) are NOT from Germany or Russia! If you go real far back you will see that they originated from Sweden(the Island Gotland on Swedens east coast). I can also tell you that these fine people wandered down from the north to the western Roman Empire and after have founded a country they eventually conquered the western Roman Empire.
Berserk = The word berserk comes from the norse bar sark, which could be translated to no chainmail(or any armour protecting the torso). The Vikings fighting style was called bar sark and because it was so fierce and violent the english started to use the word for describing people who got mad and furious.
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Fear the Vikings, like your ancestors...
Galestrum
09-21-2002, 02:20
besides being full of some highly debateable "facts" your point was?
all the stuff that the vikings did was, for the most part pre-1087 (when the game starts)
Galestrum
09-21-2002, 02:33
additionally, the gothic units you are referring to have nothing to do with the goth tribes of the dark ages
malte4756
09-21-2002, 02:51
God stuff about the berserk. But on the rest I unfortunately have to tell you that you are wrong. The Vikings are playable. But not by chosing Sweden (cause it did not exist in the middle ages). Instead chose Denmark. It is a common misconception that the Vikings were from Sweden (there might have been a few Vikings around though). First you have to realize that the Vikings were a very inhomogenous group, there was never a true Viking state. Moreover the bulk of the Viking raiders came from the coast of Norway and Denmark. From there they raided for example England, Irland and Normandy (and many more, e.g. Russia etc.). It is important to realize that todays nations Denmark, Sweden and Norway have nothing to do with the geographic places of Norway etc. above. The part of the country of present day Sweden was mainly inhabited by farmer people that were ruled by a lot of different lesser warlords fighting each other constantly. There might even have been some Viking villages but the main Viking areas were the coast of Norway and Denmark. Even already inland there were no Vikings to be seen 'cos the Vikings were coastal/naval people. Denmark (and to a certain degree what you could call Norway) was already a kingdom in the middle ages. While Sweden was not. The Swedish Kingdom developed much later (around the 12/13. century) and was a weak and small country (not even a quarter of the size of todays Sweden). It was in constant struggle with the then mighty Danish king. For a good read on the facts about the young Swedish kingdom I suggest "Jan Guillou-The road to jerusalem" and "Knight of the Temple".
By the way the word Vikings derives from "vik" which means "sloping coastline or bay" in old Germanic.
The Goths: Sorry. But the Goths were neither truly from Germany, Russia NOR Sweden/Scandinavia. The Goths are known to have come streaming in to central Europe and even the Russian steppes from Scandinavia around the 2.-3. century AD. But as this was a time of wandering the only written account of their origins are the Romans who obviously didn't follow their wanderings before the age of Christ. Even the Germanic people (the Goths are considered a branch of the Germanic tribes) have many centuries before come from the Russian steppes and wandered to present day Germany and Scandinavia so it is likely that the Goths did the same at some point. If you want to be correct it is very hard to say were any race or people came from at all because before they came from the Russian steppes they wandered there from somewhere else. By the way: You should also discern between the East and the West-Goths who must be considered different entities after their appearance.
Vildhavre
09-21-2002, 03:02
I have always thought bersek came from "bär särk", which would translate into "wearing pelt" as in wearing an animals pelt for clothing. Are you sure about this?
Yeah, just play as Denmark and remind yourself that the Danes all originally came from Sweden anyway. Then look at Sweden and Norway as breakaway provinces of your Swedish empire. Alternatively, you could play as Novgorod and remember that your social elite is descended from Swedes. About the Swedes being the ones that attacked Paris etc. some of that is false. Most of the famous "raids" and attacks made by Scandinavians were launched from Norway and Denmark, the Swedes kind of went the other way (into Russia and the baltic states).
I thought that Bar Sark meant "bear skin" referring to the only protection certain warriors wanting to prove themselves would wear.
Vildhavre
09-21-2002, 03:23
AvramL: There really arent many bears in sweden and if I was hunting for clothes I surely wouldnt go for the most dangerous animal. Id much rather go for the "king of the forest", our beloved Mooooooooose!!
(modern day germans are obsessed with the swedish moose, they even steal(buy?) trafic-signs with mooses) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
GAH!
And to think Vanya made it through History 101 thinking that the Goths were the obnoxious peeps that dress all in black and put makeup on to look pale and lifeless!
I can see how the Romans would run away if they saw a hundred or so female warriors with a gleam in their eye that look like Fairuza Balk from 'The Craft' charging at them while going berserk... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
GAH!
Not that there is anything wrong with that... and it may even prove fruitful... and frugal...
GAH!
Earl of Sweden
09-21-2002, 06:57
Quote Originally posted by malte4756:
There might even have been some Viking villages but the main Viking areas were the coast of Norway and Denmark. Even already inland there were no Vikings to be seen 'cos the Vikings were coastal/naval people. [/B][/QUOTE]
First of all let me say that I am in no way an expert on history but I would never the less argue with some of the above "facts"
It might be true that the Danish and Norwegian vikings are more known to the public than the vikings from the Swedish soil but that depends on that the swedes lay there efforts on the Baltic countries and folllowed the rivers down to central Europe rather than conquer Britain and Normandy.
About Viking villages in Sweden: Birka was at a time the largest viking city and was situated on Björkö (Birch island)in lake Mälaren rather close to Stockholm.
Also there is no real difference between farming people and vikings. Many farmers took a journey to trade and/or to do some pillage. When they got home they became farmers again (only with more money).
The thing you say about the Swedish kingdom is correct and I have no troubles at all with Denmark representing the Vikings :-)
Tragon Land - Stop whinging... so what if sweden arent a major faction - neither are Scotland, get over it or make your own game you whinging tosser.
Look mate, i can understand you being a bit miffed - no need to come here whinging about it though
yet sicily (who i cannot remember having ever done ANYTHING) are...
Quote , conquered Constantinople(or however you spell it) a few times[/QUOTE]
The vikings never sacked constantiople. They attacked it several times but never sacked it. There was once a large fleet of vikings that COULD have sacked it but they were basicly bought off by the entire treasury of Constantiople.
And let's not forget that those conquerers were groups of vikings that worked under a loose alliance but not a real single unity. They did work together ALMOST like a confederacy but only when it was in the best intrest of all of them which was uncommon.
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"samishika wa nai shitte irukara saigo wa itsumo hitori to"
"I'm not lonely Because I know I'll be Alone at the end"
email me at: Luftwaffle@mad.scientist.com
The Vikings, who went where?
First off, being a Viking didn't really mean you belonged to a certain people, tribe or country. It was more a way of life in Scandinavia and northern Europe around the Baltic Sea. The most famous Vikings are the Danes and the Norse, the Norse even giving name to all tales, sagas and legends of the Vikings but the Viking way of life was also practiced in nowaday Sweden, northern Germany and to some extent the Baltic coast. The Viking way of life originated in Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway, Denmark) and spread with the Vikings themselves on their trading and raiding and later settling journeys. The Norse Vikings mostly went to Ireland and later Iceland and Greenland, some even reaching North America. The Danes concentrated on Scotland, England and France. Normandy actually means Northmen, a frankish word for the Vikings. The Swedish Vikings went east into Balticum and along the rivers into the lands of the Rus (Russia) traveling as far as Constantinople, some even taking service as loyal bodyguards to Turkish sultans. The Boyar and Bogatyr, Nobles and landed professional fighting men of the Rus (Russia) where more of often then not descendant from Vikings, or The North People as the Rus called them.
It also a common misconception that Vikings where just large hairy barbarians from the cold north that went plundering just for the hell of it. Some undoubtedly where, but they where also great traders that traveled far and wide. They where also very good shipbuilders and navigators who knew the world was round as well as having a written language (Runes). The Viking Longboats and Knarrs (trading vessels) where sturdily built and could survive a voyage across open sea while at the same time having shallow draft allowing them to make landfall just about where ever struck their fancy. Quite often to the detriment of the people already living their in case of a Longboat with a dragonhead mounted at the prow signifying the ship/s was out raiding. But just as often or maybe even more so the ship had come to trade, which is not commonly known.
Not all Vikings fought as berserks though they where probably all quite feriocous as they had no fear of dying knowing they would end up in Valhall drinking mead and feasting with the Gods. Instead they fought in a formationg called a fylking which is basically a shield wall, both in a straight line (defense) and a wedge (offense). As long as the formation held the Vikings where relatively safe from archers behind their large round shields and where very hard to break in melee, even the formation did break.
I could tell you about religion and law next but this post is getting long and my poor fingers tired so this will have to do for now.
MajorPain
09-21-2002, 11:29
Cool, we get history lessons for free hehehe...
I'm reading a book about Norse Myths. I'll tell you this, the Norse gods and stories are a hell of lot cooler than ANYTHING at all in the Bible. Vikings shoulda stayed pagan. Thor, Odin, Freya, dwarfs giants..
love the vikings!!!
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"samishika wa nai shitte irukara saigo wa itsumo hitori to"
"I'm not lonely Because I know I'll be Alone at the end"
email me at: Luftwaffle@mad.scientist.com
uhm tragor the vikings didnt do shit.
They only went around with theyre ships, traded and robbed some monasterys on the sea-shore.
They didnt have great armies either.
When they went out they probably were about 20 men.
Thats why i found weird when i invade sweden that i found an armie of 180 men with 60 each groups.
I mean they fought against each others too.
Btw swedens history sucks ass and it always will bc they havnt done anything.
although finland and Finnish people as never considered as vikings, archeologists have fount in Finland a lot of old villages with traces of the viking presence between 800 na d 1200 AD.
Especially on the Baltic coast and in certain inland towns (Hämeenlinna for example), finns lived "like" vikings, and this 200 or 300 years BEFORE the swedish conquest of the country.
Rune stones have been found, Tor's hammers, boats (longboats) and the finn art if often close too. There are also proves that finns have attacked Poland and Gotland (swedish island on hte Baltic).
Just as it was said by someone before, the word viking does not mean a special "race" nor a special group of people with a typical language.
Perhaps just a "way of life".
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http://www.saosnois.com/blasons/blason-normand.gif
"De gueules aux deux léopards d'or, armés et lampassés d'azur, passant l'un sur l'autre."
Gataka, youre wierd. Read some history instead to talk with your arse.
Tragon, Sweden became a country around 1320. And the viking history did live about 200 years. Around 900 to 1100.
BTW (To all who think the vikings did have horns on their helms, thats an American invention).
(And the vikings was down to Mexico too not only Newfoundland. Rumors from the Aztecs said that they saw dragonboats on the ocean).
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Cheaters never win and winners never cheat!
GilJaysmith
09-21-2002, 21:45
Quote Originally posted by KeePah:
BTW (To all who think the vikings did have horns on their helms, thats an American invention).
[/QUOTE]
And not a particularly commonsensical one, either. What good are those horns except to help out anyone who's swinging an axe at your head and has slightly misjudged their aim? Oh look, the horns have guided it back towards your skull... :)
Gil ~ CA
Sweden was a nation in the 1100 that had a king but when the king they a war could break out in the country about the kings crow.
Quote Originally posted by Tragon:
[B]When I started this game I got pisst. The first thing I saw was that Sweden wasnt playable. What kind of bull is that?[/QUOTE]
Please go read a good history book before posting drivel such as this. The Vikings never conquered Constantinople for example.
Grifman
Xer0 Sweden became a country around 1280-1320 we have paper on it...
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Cheaters never win and winners never cheat!
Ever heard about king Knut Eriksson that ruled Sweden under 1100?
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