Bulgaria's Abandoned Children

[Andres]

Anyone seen this documentary?

Warning - this is depressing and shocking. I saw it on television last night and at the end of the documentary, I couldn't help myself and started to cry.

Linky (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9176914173325307126)


Some info on the site of BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/bulgarias-children.shtml)


The Social Care Home - where 75 unwanted children are growing up - is the main employer in the small village of Mogilino. Few of the children can talk, not necessarily because they are unable but rather because no one has ever taught them how.

Kate meets the children in this tragic, silent world, such as Milan, the gentle giant who spends his days doing chores and watching over the others, and mildly autistic 18-year-old Didi, who is able to talk, and has plenty to say, but no one to speak to. The children that surround them suffer a variety of problems, many are blind or deaf and some are unable to leave their beds, many are literally wasting away.

Abandoned into the hands of the staff at Mogilino these children inhabit a bleak uncaring world, so devoid of normal everyday stimulus that many have taken to rocking slowly and constantly in their chairs just for something to do.

Bulgaria has more institutionalised mentally and physically disabled children than anywhere else in Europe. This film is a heart-rending and eye-opening look into the life of one such institution.

[Fragony]

Let's send some more aid to african dictators.

[Zim]

Was that meant to be a non sequitur? Otherwise, I'm confused. Bulgaria is not in Africa, and isn't run by a dictator.


Let's send some more aid to african dictators.

[Fragony]

Meh let's send it to the dutch educational system instead.

Wait.

Let's rephrase, why the hell are we paying for the private jets of dictators and the comfortable bliss of the UN grabomania's when European kids are treated like that. Doesn't seem right, somehow, somewhere.

[Vladimir]

The Social Care Home - where 75 unwanted children are growing up - is the main employer in the small village of Mogilino. Few of the children can talk, not necessarily because they are unable but rather because no one has ever taught them how.

That is absolutely stupid. You're taught to read, you learn to talk.

[Fragony]

That is absolutely stupid. You're taught to read, you learn to talk.

First few years are essential for their cognitive ability to learn language, if nobody takes the effort it to talk to them there is a long road ahead because it doesn't come naturally.

[Justiciar]

I saw it, and couldn't stop thinking about it for weeks thereafter. Grim stuff indeed. :no:

[Zim]

Scary thing is it's pretty common. My wife was adopted from an orphanage in a much wealthier country (South Korea) and conditions were about the same. :no:

I'm not European so hearing "when European kids are treated like that" doesn't neccessarily have a special effect on me that, say, when insert any continent here kids ... does but I definately agree that there are better places for aid money to go than building that fifth palace for such and such dictator's brother-in-law. I remember a few times my country had to drop food from planes to make sure normal people would see any of it. Otherwise it would just be sold by the government to buy weapons.

My church raises money for some charity groups in the third world (we send people to do social work as well). If you're careful you can make a difference without fattening some despot's coffers.

[Lemur]

That is absolutely stupid. You're taught to read, you learn to talk.
Vladimir, read up on feral children (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child) before you comment on what is or is not stupid. If a child is not exposed to speech, he doesn't learn it. There's actually a very brief window in which a child either does or does not learn speech, and if you miss it, the kid will never really get the hang of it.

I'd recount some cases I know of, but they're all heart-breaking and gut-wrenching. Suffice it to say that we know about this because there are some very sick people in the world.

[Mikeus Caesar]

I'm not European so hearing "when European kids are treated like that" doesn't neccessarily have a special effect on me that, say, when insert any continent here kids ... does but I definately agree that there are better places for aid money to go than building that fifth palace for such and such dictator's brother-in-law. I remember a few times my country had to drop food from planes to make sure normal people would see any of it. Otherwise it would just be sold by the government to buy weapons.


The reason 'European kids are treated like that' has a special effect is because when you are European, you generally view Europe as the best place in the world, highly advanced with the best standards of living in the world. But when you find this is going on in the same continent, you can't help but be shocked and disgusted.

I think what Frag is getting at though is the same view as people opposed to the space program, 'why bother spending money to get up there with so many problems down here'. Fortunately unlike those naysayers, Frag is right - why are we throwing our money into the pits that some African countries are, when there are problems like that on our doorsteps? Only once we have ourselves sorted should we have the right to be telling other continents how to improve themselves.

[Zim]

I understood what he meant. :yes: I just rather dislike that mentality. To me, an atrocity that happens faraway is just as bad as one close to home. Sometimes you hear similiar sentiments in the U.S. at times, although we haven't quite come to the point where we include the whole continent of North America (give it time, if Mexico's living standards continue to rise we could reach that point some day :clown: ). I have to admit, I'd not be especially shocked to find out that, say, Honduras had this kind of problem just because it happened on my continent (one where, like Europe, the large majority of the people live in high income countries, the next largest group in middle income countries, and then a small number in low income countries).

I am appalled to find this kind of thing going on anywhere, and I'll gladly and diligently work to keep it from happening if I can, regardless of whether it's close to home or not.

Wasn't the G8 supposed to have some sort of meeting a while back to sort out the best way to dispense aid to Africa without it being wasted? I wonder if anything came of it.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if Honduras has that sort of problem and only picked it out as an example of a country in North America in a similiar economic situation to that of Bulgaria.


The reason 'European kids are treated like that' has a special effect is because when you are European, you generally view Europe as the best place in the world, highly advanced with the best standards of living in the world. But when you find this is going on in the same continent, you can't help but be shocked and disgusted.

I think what Frag is getting at though is the same view as people opposed to the space program, 'why bother spending money to get up there with so many problems down here'. Fortunately unlike those naysayers, Frag is right - why are we throwing our money into the pits that some African countries are, when there are problems like that on our doorsteps? Only once we have ourselves sorted should we have the right to be telling other continents how to improve themselves.

[doc_bean]

I think it's even worse for Europeans to hear 'in Europe' than for Americans to hear 'in the US' since we are supposed to be a socialist paradise which can and does take care of its weaker inhabitants.

The US has gone the road of 'we are the greatest country in the world' the superpower, but Europe has tended to take the moral high road.

The situation of the orphans in bulgaria has been know for a decade or so though, it didn't stop them from entering the union, unfortuantely.

[Vladimir]

I think it's even worse for Europeans to hear 'in Europe' than for Americans to hear 'in the US' since we are supposed to be a socialist paradise which can and does take care of its weaker inhabitants.

The US has gone the road of 'we are the greatest country in the world' the superpower, but Europe has tended to take the moral high road.

The situation of the orphans in Bulgaria has been know for a decade or so though, it didn't stop them from entering the union, unfortunately.

It's a cultural thing. For example: In the most depressed, run down areas of the United States (i.e. the South) you'll find the most patriotic people. It's all based on perception.

Mikeus' comment was pretty funny. That's how many people view their home countries.

[Zim]

That's kind of the thing I found especially odd. I'm used to hearing people from such and such wealthy country say such things, but I'd never heard anyone say it about a much poorer country just because it happens to share the same continent.

I studied political science in my university (meaning I can rattle off useless demographic statistics at the drop of a hat) and to the best of my knowledge Europe is no wealthier a continent per capita than North America, with roughly equal percentages of the continent's populations in what the UN terms high, medium, and low income countries, the main difference being that Europe has far more people in what are mostly smaller countries.

It's kind of interesting to hear someone view things that way, actually. I wonder how far the country would have to be to register less surprise. Out of the E.U. (was Romania one of the Eastern European countries that joined a while back?), past the Ural Mountains?


It's a cultural thing. For example: In the most depressed, run down areas of the United States (i.e. the South) you'll find the most patriotic people. It's all based on perception.

Mikeus' comment was pretty funny. That's how many people view their home countries.

[Zim]

I think a lot of Americans would respond similiarly. I know my wife does. What seems interesting is that "in Bulgaria" seems like it should be more similiar to an American hearing "in El Salvador".

Eastern Europe consists largely of countries in the same income range as Mexico and Central America (ostensibly mostly middle income countries, although they would seem poor to someone from say, Canada or Germany). The continent is certainly not any kind of paradise, socialist or otherwise, any more than North America is.

It just seems like an interesting perspective to me, one I'm not sure I wholly understand.


I think it's even worse for Europeans to hear 'in Europe' than for Americans to hear 'in the US' since we are supposed to be a socialist paradise which can and does take care of its weaker inhabitants.

The US has gone the road of 'we are the greatest country in the world' the superpower, but Europe has tended to take the moral high road.

The situation of the orphans in bulgaria has been know for a decade or so though, it didn't stop them from entering the union, unfortuantely.

[Marshal Murat]

A modest proposal (http://www.uoregon.edu/~rbear/modest.html)

[Zim]

Are you in Oregon, Marshal Murat? Or was that just a coincidence that you found the essay there? ~:)

[Marshal Murat]

The wonders of the internet.

[HoreTore]

I think what Frag is getting at though is the same view as people opposed to the space program, 'why bother spending money to get up there with so many problems down here'. Fortunately unlike those naysayers, Frag is right - why are we throwing our money into the pits that some African countries are, when there are problems like that on our doorsteps? Only once we have ourselves sorted should we have the right to be telling other continents how to improve themselves.

Unfortunately, eastern europe is also a paradise for the corrupt....

[Ice]

I think it's even worse for Europeans to hear 'in Europe' than for Americans to hear 'in the US' since we are supposed to be a socialist paradise which can and does take care of its weaker inhabitants.

The US has gone the road of 'we are the greatest country in the world' the superpower, but Europe has tended to take the moral high road.

The situation of the orphans in bulgaria has been know for a decade or so though, it didn't stop them from entering the union, unfortuantely.

Well Doc, you shouldn't believe all the hype. :yes:

That's a rather simplistic and incorrect view.

[Shaka_Khan]

I don't know about Bulgaria, but I heard that the living standards of most Eastern European countries have improved. The thing is, it takes time for a developing nation to get close to the living standards of Western European and North American countries. And an antire country doesn't improve at the same time. Usually, the main cities improve first. In fact, Bulgaria is doing fine when compared to the other countries I have seen on tv. There are countries that don't even have the facilities for the orphans.

[edyzmedieval]

There's bound to be something like that. The same goes for Romania, but it's not that shocking. Things started to improve.

[doc_bean]

Well Doc, you shouldn't believe all the hype. :yes:

That's a rather simplistic and incorrect view.

I just tried to illustrate how it feels for a lot of Europeans, in a rather simplified, thus incorrect way :bow:

[Fragony]

Hmmm, only 80% of the aid-money ends up on a swiss bank account, bad but not as bad as I thought.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/32936.html

[LittleGrizzly]

Hmmm, only 80% of the aid-money ends up on a swiss bank account, bad but not as bad as I thought.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/32936.html

Intresting article it got me thinking, what if instead of sending aid and subsidising our own argricultural products, we paid that aid to our farmers so they could mantain the same standard of living whilst charging a fair market price for their goods. A cheap quick way to resolve the problem, now how long before some sensible policys are adopted on protectionism.

[doc_bean]

Intresting article it got me thinking, what if instead of sending aid and subsidising our own argricultural products, we paid that aid to our farmers so they could mantain the same standard of living whilst charging a fair market price for their goods. A cheap quick way to resolve the problem, now how long before some sensible policys are adopted on protectionism.

We're trying that (partly) already. France is rather big on 'rural development'.

[Peasant Phill]

France is the major farming power in the EU. They have severly influenced the EU stance on farming for years to a very protectionistic one. Only recently has that stance been changed but I doubt it will change much more in comming years with the addition of new, more aggriculture centered, EU members.

On the proposition of LittleGrizzly:
You're still keeping the income of European farmers up in an artificial way whether you do it by subsidising or by garanteeing a certain level of income. The effect is the same as the European farmer would still be able to sell his goods at lower prices without compromising his wealth.

On the Bulgarian orphanages:
People should have expected such situations even in the EU when less wealthy but developing countries were allowed to join. The standards for joining are not as stern as they were before.
When the wealth in a country increases it doesn't do so equally spread over the whole populace. First the rich will become increasingly more rich, after some time there will develope a middle class after which lastly the group of poor will slowly become smaller. A social network becomes an issue fairly late in the developement.
Another reason I heard for the condition of the orphanage and the actions of its staff was the comunist past of Bulgaria. Although the staff are probably very caring people for there own family, they see there work at the orphanage as nothing more than that, a job as another. Stopping to think of it the moment they stop working.