pikmen

[MJF]

does anyone use pikemen?

if so, any suggestions as to how?

i must confess, i rarely have the energy to use them. i frequently take switzerland with the intention of pumping out huge armies of SAP but i usually lose the province well before late.

[Heidrek]

I tried them the other day for the first time. I have to say they are very average overall. Swiss Pikemen may be better, but the regular garden variety seem to be only really good at holding a bidge or castle gate. The low armour makes them easy pickings for missiles too.

[Roark]

I use them in XL a great deal, as they are given (I think) much more reasonable stats and are far more easily attainable due to the starting buildings.

I always choose them over spears in my XL armies, with Halberdiers to flank around them in wedges, and then switching to tight.

[macsen rufus]

Vanilla pikemen are seriously underwhelming, but the SAP are worth fielding if you can afford them (personally I tend to keep Switzerland churning out Swiss halberdiers instead, though). Just think like a hoplite commander and you'll appreciate their usefulness and shortcomings - keep them well-dressed and protect their flanks :bow:

[Innocentius]

SAP are more or less invincible when defending a gatehouse or bridge, but then again the same goes for every spear unit.

I usually don't use the regular pikemen since they take way too much to recruit in the first place, and by the time you get the Town_watch4 you'd probably prefer to have +1 valour Halberdiers than Pikemen. In MedMod however, all pike units are 120 men units on Default settings, and there are some really good pike units as well (chiefly Flemish Pikemen).

[Jxrc]

Always start the campaign in Early so that's usually game over before they become available.

When MTW came out (and before the very first patch), you could build any unit irrespective of the time period and I remember using SAP a few times but I never found them that great due to their lack of manoeuvrability. Perhpas I was using them in a less than efficient way since that was the my first experience at a TW game.

[ArtistofWarfare]

Always start the campaign in Early so that's usually game over before they become available.

When MTW came out (and before the very first patch), you could build any unit irrespective of the time period and I remember using SAP a few times but I never found them that great due to their lack of manoeuvrability. Perhpas I was using them in a less than efficient way since that was the my first experience at a TW game.

Yeah if you're in a campaign, whether you started at early or not, when you eventually get gunpowder units etc...this is when I find the pikemen to be of most use.

I like to use them in front of any gunpowder or artillery units, as well as strategically placed to "tie up" the enemy on them while I hit them with missle units and flank them with cavalry.

Especially with the Italians, I do like using them. Arbequisers, Culverins, pikeman and italian infantry forms a pretty nice army.

[Ironsword]

Especially with the Italians, I do like using them. Arbequisers, Culverins, pikeman and italian infantry forms a pretty nice army.

I agree with that. The benefits of having italian infantry quite early on are enormous. I always have a unit of Halberdiers handy too for mopping up...

With regards to pikemen, I haven't used them a great deal, but in my experience the AI uses them better than I do. I have once led a pikeman charge downhill into some big chivalric knight units. That was pretty effective.

[ArtistofWarfare]

I agree with that. The benefits of having italian infantry quite early on are enormous. I always have a unit of Halberdiers handy too for mopping up...

With regards to pikemen, I haven't used them a great deal, but in my experience the AI uses them better than I do. I have once led a pikeman charge downhill into some big chivalric knight units. That was pretty effective.

You know, I started writing a novel on tactics related to this...but then stopped.

For another thread, another time.

Basically when dealing with these units- Never underestimate the value of keeping units like these concealed/or inaccessible to the enemy until a time of your choosing.

When he launches that cavalry attack to change the tide of the battle, you counter him with a surprise pike/spearman charge to the flank of those very same cavalry.

If he committed the cavalry in the first place because he needed them to win the battle, he just lost the battle and you've won.