EB Manual in progress [Archive]

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stupac

01-29-2008, 04:06

Hello there.

I'm working on a semi-comprehensive manual for EB. This thread is for the purpose of me getting a little feedback.

EDIT: Seeing as that this project has gained some interest among several of my colleagues here, at hooahguy's suggestion I have created a wiki for those who are interested in participating in this project. If you would like to help out, pm me your email or wikispaces username (if you have one) so I can send you an invite. Or if you'd like to just go ahead and register a wikispaces username using your forum username, then request to join I'll add you as well.

Edit: If you'd just like to critique/comment on the project, discussion on any page should be open to anyone with a free wikispaces account.

Update 3/13/08: Most topics have a good amount of text, but feedback would be appreciated, please go to the wiki and review a few pages, feel free to post comments in discussion.

The wiki can be found here: http://ebmanual.wikispaces.com

Here is the basic draft outline (this is rough, and these are not official section titles):

I. Europa Barbarorum (about the mod, as well as some basic terminology)
II. Installation
A. Steps to Install
1. RTW
2. Free Space
3. Download
4. Install
5. Starting the mod
B. Additional Install Notes
1. Finding RTW Dir
2. Parallel Install
3. EB and other mods
4. Vista Note
III. Playing the Mod
A. Performance
B. Starting a Campaign
1. Choosing a Faction (translation of faction names included)
2. Difficulty
3. Quickstart Tutorial
C. Custom/Historical Battles
IV. Campaign Map
A. Economy
1. Making money
2. Army Upkeep
B. Governments
1. Overview of government types and advantages
2. Nomad Governments
3. Civic Structures
4. Client Rulers
C. Recruitment
1. AOR and MICs
2. Fleets
D. Family Members and Agents
1. Traits
2. Supply
3. Spies
4. Diplomats
E. Reforms
1. Requirements (labeled as spoilers)
2. How to get them
V. Battles
A. Differences between RTW
1. Fatigue
2. Missiles and slingers
3. Calvary
B. Special Units
1. Chariots
2. Elephants
3. Gestae
4. Cataphracts
5. Horse Archers
VI. Appendices
A. Bugs and reporting
B. BI and ALX
C. Recruitment viewer
D. Roleplaying
VII. Credits (EB Team and anyone I consulted for the manual)
I am planning to release the final version in .doc and .pdf, possibly in hyperlinked html as well. So far I am working with 8.5x11 page settings to preserve the ability for it to be printed on standard paper if one is so inclined. I will not be attempting to repeat items that are already in the Rome Total War manual, but trying to highlight differences between EB and RTW and maybe inserting some lesser known facts like how difficulty effects gameplay and switching weapons on calvary.

Thank you. And as always, thanks EB team, if it weren't for you this effort would be in vain.

Bellum

01-29-2008, 04:58

stupac

01-29-2008, 07:59

Hmm, I don't know about Alexander, but there is no need to uninstall a version of RTW with BI. Also, copy/pasting the folder works in XP, too. Otherwise, I think it's a good guide so far. Don't forget to mention the different whatchomachalits that you have to switch out for the campaign and custom battles.

Thanks Bellum for looking at the draft. I didn't realize that in XP, haven't used it in so long and couldn't remember. I don't know what I had in mind about BI and ALX, I think I got confused because for a while I had lost my RTW discs, but I had my BI, so I could only play with BI. I don't know, I will correct that, thanks. I won't forget about the 'whatchomachalits,' but I was reserving that for the next section on playing the mod. I will try to upload a revised installation draft as soon as I have a chance to do it.

Thanks, keep em comin.

Edit: Corrected those blatant mistakes and reuploaded them in the first post. I'm sure there are many others but we'll correct those as we come to them.

LorDBulA

01-29-2008, 08:43

It would be nice to mention that patching order for RTW is 1.3 and then 1.5.

stupac

01-29-2008, 09:25

It would be nice to mention that patching order for RTW is 1.3 and then 1.5.

Point taken, thank you.

Nikaïa's tyrannos

01-29-2008, 13:35

Oh my GOD!!!

Thanks to your manual I finally find my saved game files. You're awesome.~:thumb:

It's a good beginning of the guide though I find one mistake (I think since English is not my primary language)

If these instructions do not make since to you,

Isn't it sense?

I hope I will help you more in the gameplay part. Also you could add a part about spies and diplomats because it seems (at least to me) that spies are much more efficient (to trigger rebellion in ennemy cities but also to prevent yours to rebel) and the ambassador traits make the diplomats not only useful for diplo-relations.

It would be good to insert everywhere in the guide some variation around: "Do not forget to activate the script!", "Hey! Did you see that flashing guy in the upper left corner? He wants to tell you something..." or "The scriiiiipt! Do not forget it!"

overweightninja

01-29-2008, 15:11

Hey again, looking good so far, unfortunately rapid share appears to be down (for me at least) right now so I can't get your draft up but I'll check again when I'm home from work.
I do have a couple of suggestions for now though however:
Firstly I think it might be worth including a "quickstart" tutorial akin to those stickied on this forum (updated for 1.0/1.1 obviously), that takes a new player through the essential parts of EB in order.
Secondly in regards to the "special units" section, are you sticking on those three? I'm sure arguments will arise for other units being just as special (Horse archers and dealing with heavy Catas spring to mind), so how broad could we go on that section do you think?
Anyway, rapidshare still seems to be having a fit so I will check back in a little later and take a proper look then :2thumbsup:
EDIT
Okay just taken a look, what you've done so far looks pretty good, I assume you're accepting submissions on the other parts of the manual? If so I might just pick something in there to scribble about....
Cheers

stupac

01-30-2008, 02:17

As to submissions, I'm willing to receive them, but I do so with some reservation. I just don't want this project to dissolve into arguments about how things should be done or who's submission will carry the day. I don't presume to have any authority over EB's official manual, but in this case somehow these things have to be decided. I will read any submissions, and try to incorporate them as best I can. If a problem does arise, then we may have to decide through voting or poll. If you decide to submit something, try to understand it may not necessarily be in the final product. My fears are most likely unfounded, we have many fine folks on this forum and I probably won't receive many submissions anyways.

But yes, overweightninja, my slightly rotund shinobi friend, please email me your submissions.

stupac

01-30-2008, 02:22

Oh my GOD!!!

Thanks to your manual I finally find my saved game files. You're awesome.~:thumb:

It's a good beginning of the guide though I find one mistake (I think since English is not my primary language)

Isn't it sense?

I hope I will help you more in the gameplay part. Also you could add a part about spies and diplomats because it seems (at least to me) that spies are much more efficient (to trigger rebellion in ennemy cities but also to prevent yours to rebel) and the ambassador traits make the diplomats not only useful for diplo-relations.

It would be good to insert everywhere in the guide some variation around: "Do not forget to activate the script!", "Hey! Did you see that flashing guy in the upper left corner? He wants to tell you something..." or "The scriiiiipt! Do not forget it!"

Glad the manual has already helped someone. Good thought on the spies and diplomats, I'll try to add that to the outline. I was certainly planning to explain the script and how to use it. It still amazes me how many people don't understand it, but that's what this manual is for. Thanks for pointing out my spelling issue, I will correct it forthwith.

Hooahguy

01-30-2008, 02:22

is there really a difference b/w RTW and EB w/ regards to fatigue?

stupac

01-30-2008, 02:26

Hey again, looking good so far, unfortunately rapid share appears to be down (for me at least) right now so I can't get your draft up but I'll check again when I'm home from work.
I do have a couple of suggestions for now though however:
Firstly I think it might be worth including a "quickstart" tutorial akin to those stickied on this forum (updated for 1.0/1.1 obviously), that takes a new player through the essential parts of EB in order.
Secondly in regards to the "special units" section, are you sticking on those three? I'm sure arguments will arise for other units being just as special (Horse archers and dealing with heavy Catas spring to mind), so how broad could we go on that section do you think?

I think a quickstart tutorial would be an excellent idea, but nothing too long I think, just the basics. As to the special units, certainly not, that's a very unfinished list. I suggested the gestae because people argue about them all the time, and can't seem to figure out how to beat them. Catas and horse archers would be a fine addition to the list. Maybe even a brief section on historical tactics, but I don't want to go to far. I mostly just want to get in the basics needed for a manual. If we have the time, we may turn it into more of a strategy guide, but mostly I just wanted to highlight things that RTW players may have difficulty with when coming to EB.

fahrenheit

01-30-2008, 02:27

Hooahguy

01-30-2008, 02:42

IIRC, wikipedia has an online page that allows people to edit freely on documents you post.....
ill try to get a link up soon. i would love to help with this project!
EDIT: here it is: http://www.wikispaces.com/

stupac

01-30-2008, 02:52

Heres an idea, once you get th manual finished you should have it open to critique for the whole public, people can add things or suggest changes. That way it would be built by the whole community instead of one person, and therefor contain more probably better information.

Absolutely. I want this to be a community product, and I'm certain it will be better for it as I don't have great confidence in my own abilities. But, we aren't there yet, and though I'm fine with writing the whole thing myself; some kind folks like BMI challenged friend, overweightninja, have offered to submit sections I haven't even had a chance to work on yet. I don't want to suggest that this is "my" project and therefore I make all the rules. I just want to urge everyone to participate in an adult manner and discuss things rationally. I've just been in too many forums and community projects that dissolve into bickering that I may be a little gun shy. Once again, I'm sure this forum is the exception. What we have is open to the community at all times for critique and as sections are added they too will be available as well.

Hooahguy

01-30-2008, 02:54

IMO, the only way it will be a community project is if you take the entire guide which you have done so far, and post it on the wikispaces, so others can edit it easier.

stupac

01-30-2008, 03:40

I just saw your edit, I will set up one as soon as I can. I'm kind of busy tonight though. I don't have much wiki experience, but it is a great idea, hooahguy, thanks.

stupac

01-30-2008, 05:56

I hastily created a wiki. Please note the blank pages I created were based on my outline and tentative, I'm sure as we start discussing things we'll get a better idea of the structure.

Here it is:

http://ebmanual.wikispaces.com

If anyone wants an invite, pm me your email or wikispaces username if you have one.

stupac

01-30-2008, 06:12

is there really a difference b/w RTW and EB w/ regards to fatigue?

I think most people may be surprised at how quickly units fatigue in EB compared to RTW and most mods. Don't units fatigue faster in EB or is it my imagination?

fahrenheit

01-30-2008, 06:20

http://ebmanual.wikispaces.com

Looks great, best of luck:2thumbsup:

Maion Maroneios

01-30-2008, 08:54

Good idea, stupac. Keep up the great work!

overweightninja

01-30-2008, 13:53

stupac

01-30-2008, 19:20

Are you sure a Wiki is the best way to go? Surely that just puts us back to stage one? I would suggest that if people cannot find out some of the basic info via the existing website, and then beyond that these forums, a wiki probably wont make a huge difference.
I'm not saying a wiki is a bad idea (I thought we already had one actually but there you go nvm hehe) but its applications beyond submissions of work or simple reference I'm not sure about, I don't think it fits to the objective of a game "manual".
Cheers

What it does is make the document easier to edit between multiple people who want to participate in the project. Basically it will work the same way as I had it setup (me uploading drafts to rapidshare, posting here and accepting corrections and submissions through email, and discussions taking place here) just easier so I don't have to be constantly uploading and checking my email, it also makes it easier for us to discuss versions of a section. This will allow us to get the text of the document completed. Once we have all the sections completed, I will take it and convert it to a document (.doc) and .pdf, along with additional graphics, table of contents, and credits. I hope the wiki will allow us to collaborate better and faster.

Hooahguy

01-30-2008, 21:43

i wrote the battle section for the manual- but not the fatigue part- is there any difference with regards to that between RTW & EB?

overweightninja

01-30-2008, 22:48

Once we have all the sections completed, I will take it and convert it to a document (.doc) and .pdf, along with additional graphics, table of contents, and credits. I hope the wiki will allow us to collaborate better and faster.

Okay then, sounds good to me. :2thumbsup:

keravnos

01-30-2008, 22:56

On behalf of the team I want to thank you for your work and commitment.
Keep up the great work. :2thumbsup:

Tellos Athenaios

01-31-2008, 03:55

Yeah good idea. A couple of idea's:
You may want some section about Client Rulers;
You may want some section about the Recruitment Viewer;
You may want to replace low with high in conjunction with the velocity of sling bullets: right now that sentence makes no sense. :grin:

Mouzafphaerre

01-31-2008, 04:57

.
Script! The script!! Right about it everywhere, every page! Make it even a repeating header maybe! :stunned:
.

stupac

01-31-2008, 08:39

stupac

01-31-2008, 08:42

.
Script! The script!! Right about it everywhere, every page! Make it even a repeating header maybe! :stunned:
.

Can't we just mention it once? Hey want the damn advisor to leave you alone, press the "show me how button." If people can't follow the instructions in game, they aren't going to follow them outside of it.

Ayce

01-31-2008, 13:32

I was checking what's been done till now and I saw this:

Getai Thracian/Dacian tribe(?) Thrace/Dacia(?)

the Getai are a Dacian tribe (and the Dacians are closely related to Thracians, infact they are sometimes called north danube thracians) and as a RTW eqquivalent, it would be Dacia+Thrace.

Tellos Athenaios

01-31-2008, 20:20

Can't we just mention it once? Hey want the damn advisor to leave you alone, press the "show me how button." If people can't follow the instructions in game, they aren't going to follow them outside of it.

But they will come and complain asking about missed Marian reforms... :dizzy2:

And on that note you might want to include a general article about the Modesty Patch, and the various lighting files you can choose... And about naked soldiers in general, but Gaesatae/Tindanotae in particular.

Mouzafphaerre

01-31-2008, 21:04

Can't we just mention it once? Hey want the damn advisor to leave you alone, press the "show me how button." If people can't follow the instructions in game, they aren't going to follow them outside of it.
.
:laugh4: I was exaggerating. But there are so many people whining about bugs that are not really bugs and they all turn out to have left the script unloaded. :stare:
.

stupac

02-01-2008, 01:05

stupac

02-01-2008, 01:06

.
:laugh4: I was exaggerating. But there are so many people whining about bugs that are not really bugs and they all turn out to have left the script unloaded. :stare:
.

Script unloaded? Is it possible for the advisor not to appear at all? Or do people just manage to ignore it somehow?

stupac

02-01-2008, 01:07

But they will come and complain asking about missed Marian reforms... :dizzy2:

And on that note you might want to include a general article about the Modesty Patch, and the various lighting files you can choose... And about naked soldiers in general, but Gaesatae/Tindanotae in particular.

Good reminder, I'll have to insert that in the installation section.

Mouzafphaerre

02-01-2008, 02:23

Script unloaded? Is it possible for the advisor not to appear at all? Or do people just manage to ignore it somehow?
.
They ignore it. :shrug:
.

Tellos Athenaios

02-01-2008, 04:27

Another one: Virtual Factions aka the Roving Generals...

Ayce

02-01-2008, 11:34

.
They ignore it. :shrug:
.
I ignored it at first, but it was because the advisor was set to voice only and I didn't notice it.

Nikaïa's tyrannos

02-01-2008, 17:08

A few remarks:
-You forgot to say the script has to be activated when loading a saved game.
-In the reforms section you may add all the things activated by the vanilla reform (early->late BG, refomed makedonian phalanx...)
-About the agents, I think the important diffference with vanilla is the "spy-guild master" trait and the ambassador trait for diplomats.

Great work so far!

Mouzafphaerre

02-02-2008, 01:07

I ignored it at first, but it was because the advisor was set to voice only and I didn't notice it.
.
You're not the only one. ~:pat:
.

stupac

03-14-2008, 00:03

The interest on this project has died down considerably, but I've continued working on it. I would like some feedback, especially from EB team members if possible, but any will suffice. Looks like most topics have been completed, especially regarding game play. Please take a look, and post comments on the page (edit: you don't have to be a member of the space, but you will need a free wikispaces account) if you have a little time. Remember, that the original goal of this project was not to produce a wiki, but a single distributable document (pdf) that could be downloaded or even included in EB and also be printable if so desired (though as it is it may be too long for some folks). Thank you very much.

http://ebmanual.wikispaces.com/

overweightninja

03-14-2008, 00:05

The interest on this project has died down considerably, but I've continued working on it. I would like some feedback, especially from EB team members if possible, but any will suffice. Looks like most topics have been completed, especially regarding game play. Please take a look, and post comments on the page (no registration required) if you have a little time. Remember, that the original goal of this project was not to produce a wiki, but a single distributable document (pdf) that could be downloaded or even included in EB and also be printable if so desired (though as it is it may be too long for some folks). Thank you very much.

http://ebmanual.wikispaces.com/

Mate I'm still waiting on you to make me an account :2thumbsup:
I sent you a PM a while back with my e-mail like you asked, need a resend?
Cheers

stupac

03-14-2008, 00:15

Hmm, I got your PM and accepted your request to join the space some time ago overweightninja, and your username, overweightninja, is shown as a member on my management screen. Do you still have access to that account? I should have pmed you a while back, but I just assumed you didn't have time to help out, I'm terribly sorry. Try to get on the space, sign in and you should be able to edit pages, if you can't, then pm me and we'll figure it out.

pezhetairoi

03-14-2008, 02:07

Must include a paragraph on 'NO Lorica Segmentata'.

stupac

03-14-2008, 02:50

Must include a paragraph on 'NO Lorica Segmentata'.

Aha, I knew I must have forgotten something. Though do you honestly think it will make a difference? :wall:

Danzifuge

03-14-2008, 12:33

thank you so much for creating this. i just found out it exists.

stupac

03-15-2008, 01:33

thank you so much for creating this. i just found out it exists.

NP, if you read it, I'd appreciate knowing what you think. It's still very much a WIP.