Underdog triumphs...at YOUR expense

[J.Alco]

Ever been in a campaign when you're the one whose strongest, with great cash flowing in your coffers and excellent standing forces that are composed of factional AND regional troops, and are essentially the undisputed power in your little area of the EB map? And has it ever happened that you invade a province/faction that you know, by using spies, is weak and should easily be a pushover, only to find yourself a couple of turns later licking your wounds and staring at your still-standing enemies in enraged surprise?

It happened to me recently. Playing as Rome, I had finally managed, by 240-something BC to subdue Sicily, southern Gaul, all of Italy, and get the Polybian reforms. I decided to get started on expanding eastwards, and my first target? Illyria, which had spammed many of its regional units and had somehow managed to fend off Epeiros, which was by this time becoming the dominant hellenic power in the meditterannean. I decided: hell, a few low-grade rebels ain't a big deal, and I could use the foothold against Pyrrhus' boys, so I send in a full stack of troops, composed mainly of factional units (hastati, Principes, Triarii, etc) but with a few regionals bolstering the ranks. Thing was, the only cavalry I had was by FM's bodyguard cavalry, and if I'd maybe taken the trouble to spy on the spammed Eleuthoroi army on the outskirts of Segestica, maybe I'd have learned the reason why they'd not been conquered by the Epeirots yet...

Needless to say, they'd spammed alot of skirmisher peltastai units, so when I engaged them in battle I was forced to chase their soldiers around like an idiot with my footmen and cavalry while they continued to bombard me with javelins and run away. Even though I managed to catch and destroy the odd unit here and there, and of course their regular melee units didn't stand a chance, I still COULD NOT catch the bloody skirmishers.

So, after nearly an hour, and having suffered already over 50% casualties, I withdrew my forces bitterly, repeating to myself over and over 'This isn't a defeat. I haven't lost this battle. I'm just withdrawing from a difficult position, that's all'. THEN I thought 'I'll bet this is how the Americans felt during Vietnam'.

After that fiasco, it was obvious that I didn't have the manpower to fight a battle AND besiege and take Segestica, so I limped home to Italy with my pride having been wounded considerably.

Still, it wasn't all bad. A few turns later Illyria was still Eleutheroi, and my re-trained army had plenty more cavalry detachments. In my next invasion, I of course butchered their army and then, having taken the settlement, decided to do the usual thing, which was exterminate half the population. It made me feel a little better, but the memory of one's defeat never really fades...

I checked the timeline, the whole sordid affair only took about eight turns (two EB years).

What about YOU? What's YOUR tale of misfortune where you've been humbled by a small, plucky nation and have had doubts about yourself, even going so far as to say 'If this were a hollywood flick, I'd be the evil empire going up against a Braveheart-figure'. :laugh4:

Tell, tell!

[Boyar Son]

The cathaginians after only having one province left, attacked my large
3-hastati 3-principes 3-triarii 2-general 2 cav 3-velites army with a militia force. Liby-phoenician troops, well rounded tho, but I had the superior army in equipment.

Tribune lost including maybe %75-80 of the army. Crushing defeat. I think it was my no-star incompetent varrus-like general.

[Bellum]

I make silly mistakes all the time. Just recently I let a unit of light cavalry get caught and (mostly) killed by militia hoplites and skirmishers. :no:

[Maeran]

If you're playing as Rome, this is entirely historically accurate as a way for you to win wars. Never admit you had your ass handed to you and keep sending legions.

I've never been beaten by an underdog, but when I decided to destroy Carthage (Carthago Delenda est) in my last campaign, I did get bogged down because I could never hunt down all those pesky family members. Got them in the end, but only after far more expenditure and manpower than I had planned- by a factor of decades.

I've been defeated by Seleucia in Asia Minor. But of course, I was Roman and therefore used this as an excuse to raise more legions and re-invade. But it's highly unlikely that anyone would call the grey death underdogs.

[Tiberius Nero]

Ever been in a campaign when you're the one whose strongest, with great cash flowing in your coffers and excellent standing forces that are composed of factional AND regional troops, and are essentially the undisputed power in your little area of the EB map? And has it ever happened that you invade a province/faction that you know, by using spies, is weak and should easily be a pushover, only to find yourself a couple of turns later licking your wounds and staring at your still-standing enemies in enraged surprise?

In this game? I wish.

[jman47]

just the other day i was playing as the carthaginians and in the beginning of the campaign decided to take messana, so i sent a half stack over there thinking it would be enough, especially since i had ellies, but the truth was quite different.

i had the ellies smash the gates and a section of wall and poured my infantry through, but after 5 minutes of brutal combat i still hadnt gained the advantage, so i had my ellies smash a third hole, go through it, and attack the enemy in the rear expecting them to rout.

instead they killed almost all the ellies causing them to run amok into my infantry, causing them to rout.

the worst part was the enemies general unit was down to only 1 man, the general! if i coulda killed him i would of routed them easy, that really sucked.

that was the most personally crushing victory i ever faced.


another time as the romans i took syracusa winning the battle but lost 54 percent of my men, talk about a phyrric victory, i had the city put to the sword killing 13000+ though so i got the last laugh.

[General Appo]

A few times. As Hayasdan I had finally managed to reduce the grey death to just a few areas around Mesopotamia and become the dominant power in the Near East, owning everythng between Pergamon in the west, the Caucasus in the north, Hyrkania in the east and Syria in the south.
I decided to once and for all crush the Seleukids, and so put togheter a huge army with 5 full stacks led by a couple of quite decent general´s.
My spies had reported no significant Seleukid forces at all, and so I was confident that I could just roll over their remaining city´s and forever be rid of their annoying presence. Things started out good, I took Seleukeia without any trouble at all, and so decided to split up my army.
1 would stay in Seleukeia as garrison while 2 went for Babylon and 2 for Charax. Once those two cities were gone the Seleukids would finally be gone from this world.
Babylon was soon besieged, as was Charax. However, just as I was about to attack Charax 4 (!) great Seleukid armies arrived from nowhere and attacked me in the back! I admit, I panicked, and tried to get into the city before the Seleukid armies could get all the way around the walls and attack my forces.
Sadly, all my 3 towers and 2 rams were burned to the ground before they reached the walls, and the Seleukid armies arrived before I could escape.
I was caught between the 4 Seleukid armies and the walls.
My forces were constantly fired upon by the great tower of Charax, and with all the huge armies running around there was no space to manouver my superior cavalry and the disciplined phalanxes of the grey death easily slaughtered my troops.
The army besiegeing Babylon had just taken the city, and I was uneager to abandon it. The great Seleukid army soon appeared and besieged the city.
Just 1 turn later they attacked with a couple of rams.
I though my great cavalry would be able to attack the Seleukids in the back, but in a stroke of geniousity the Seleukids moved 2 of their army to cover the flanks, and faced with thousands of men with long pikes my cavalry couldn´t do anything but harass them, and they soon broke through the
walls. My men didn´t have a chance, and were slaughtered to the last man.
Just the next turn the Seleukids were marching on Seleukeia, and I decided to evacuate. Strangely, my army was attacked by 3 large Eleutheroi armies on the way, and despite being able to defeat them my remaining army was slowly decreasing in size. Just as I was about to get to safety I was ambushed by a Seleukid army that must have been waiting for me for quite some time, as my spies had not spotted anything in the area.
The ambush succeded and my army was defeated. In the end only 12 Aspet Hetselazor (Armenian Medium Cavalry) made their way back to Hayasdan land.
My great expedition had utterly failed, and my entire empire suffered as a result. Makedonians threatened my eastern provinces, Ptolemies took the Syria and the areas around it, Bactria invaded Hyrkania and Sauromates attacked the Caucasus. It took me quite some time to stabilize the the empire, but 26 years after the failed invasion of Mesopotamia I tried again, and this time I succeded. And guess what, I had been saving those 12 men in Armavir without retraining them, and they were with the army as it took the last Seleucid city, Babylon. It was truly epic.
Hmmm... I noticed this became a pretty big post, but anyway.

[Centurion Crastinus]

Playing as the Romans, I had a depleted full stack that I pitted against the Iberians. I attacked them thinking that I would win. Much to my suprise my legion was quickly routed. Next turn though I pitted a recently retrained legion against the very same army and killed everysingle one of them.

[Hooahguy]

@General Appo- MY GOD!!!!!!

[General Appo]

My God? Your God? What God is this? The roman catholic god, or some other kind of god? Or did you just use it to express your disbelief/shock/anger/suprise/whatever? And if so, why?
Because you think I suck at this game, because you think the Seleukids are geniuses, because you marvel at the sheer epicness of my campaign, or just because you just realised that you love my forum name so much?
Please, elaborate.

[Pezlu]

@General Appo- MY GOD!!!!!!

I second that O________________O

[General Appo]

I feel obliged to qoute myself. Now, ANSWER! :whip:


My God? Your God? What God is this? The roman catholic god, or some other kind of god? Or did you just use it to express your disbelief/shock/anger/suprise/whatever? And if so, why?
Because you think I suck at this game, because you think the Seleukids are geniuses, because you marvel at the sheer epicness of my campaign, or just because you just realised that you love my forum name so much?
Please, elaborate.

[Pezlu]

I feel obliged to qoute myself. Now, ANSWER! :whip:

"I just use it to express my disbelief/shock/anger/suprise/whatever". In this case: shock O_O
And why? "Because I marvel at the sheer epicness of your campaign" :charge:

[anubis88]

I feel obliged to qoute myself. Now, ANSWER! :whip:
dude... you need some anger management....
I for one don't believe in the 4 stacks magically appearing part but that's just me i guess:laugh4:

[pezhetairoi]

XD Mine was Marian Romans against the Sweboz. Not beaten (that word's not in the Roman vocab) but pretty nicely drained, which in our human-player estimation is equivalent to a defeat, I think.

Three fullstacks of cohors, with ample equites, strategically enveloping Germania, and the Germans ALWAYS manage to call up troops to send against me that cause such huge casualties despite armour that I end up halting to receive reinforcements, which allows them to evade the traps I strive to complete and escape eastwards. When I started their easternmost provinces were Carrodunum and Gawjam Rugoz. When I finally annihilated them I was in Budinije, at war with the Sauromatae long before I wanted to be at war with them. Gah.

But it was a pretty good fight. It was nice to have an apparently-pushover enemy come back at you for 13 consecutive rounds when you expected 3, to finally be knocked out only from exhaustion rather some right hook you threw.

[Skandaz.Imperator]

Playing as the Gray Death, in about 255BC I had just mopped up the remainders of the Pontic faction as the Baktrians decided to have "their way with me". In a few turns, I lost every eastern city between Persepolis and Asaak.

Karmana, Apameia, Antiochiea-Margiane, Alexandria-Ariana, Gabia, Propthasia and Hekatompylos all went over to the Baktrians juggernaut until I had my relief armies ready and they poured out from Ekbatana, Persepolis and Asaak.

Now by 231, all my lost cities have been reconquered and Baktria is just Sülek and Kophen away from defeat...

[anubis88]

Well to be more o topic...
A huge rebbelion happend in my AS campaign in Asia Minor near Sardes.
The army was led by (an) Alcibiades:beam:
It was a full stack army and my armies weren'r really concentrated on that part, so i pulled all of my units from Hallicarnassos, Sardes and Ipsos and attacked them.
I lost.
Badly.
My entire army fled to Sardes with no moving points.
Ipsos fell to Pontus that broke our alliance in that turn.
Hallicarnassos rebelled to KH.
It took my a few years to get things under control in Asia Minor.
I had to move my kings army from Judea to reconquer what i lost in just one turn.
It was great fun though:2thumbsup:

[General Appo]

dude... you need some anger management....
I for one don't believe in the 4 stacks magically appearing part but that's just me i guess:laugh4:

Anger management? That stuff is just boring and makes me won´t to kill someone.
But really, the 4 stacks did magically appear, I think they had been away taking Gerrha down south along the Persian Gulf, because the amount of rebels in that town indicates a civil revolt.

[pezhetairoi]

I'd think so too. It seems to me though that magically appearing troops are most often the cause of naval transfers, which are not uncommon in the Persian Gulf by the Grey Death, when they can deal with the pirates. Any such possibility in your case?

[General Appo]

I guess. They did have quite a lot of ships in the area, so it is possible.
I usually just ignore the sea until I´ve taken out all their ports anyway, but perhaps I should have concentrated more on neutralising their reinforcment options.

[Hooahguy]

My God? Your God? What God is this? The roman catholic god, or some other kind of god? Or did you just use it to express your disbelief/shock/anger/suprise/whatever? And if so, why?
Because you think I suck at this game, because you think the Seleukids are geniuses, because you marvel at the sheer epicness of my campaign, or just because you just realised that you love my forum name so much?
Please, elaborate.
im just expressing how bad your luck was...... wow that had to have been a RTW engine first- the AI actually did something smart!.....

[NeoSpartan]

Nice one General Appo mine was: Aedui (me) vs Sweboz

As usual the Sweboz were getting too big and were getting to close to my lands for comfort, so after killing the Romani I send 1 and 1/2 stack towards them. Expecting to beat them easely with my newly learned "MP battle tactics" from .81x.

However the Sweboz had a surprise for me. A 12+ star General, with 2 Gold Cheverons, a vetaran of the Sweboz-Boii war. (The Sweboz would send stack after stack against the Boii lead by the same guy). And after all was said and done I called him "Hanniboz" :knight:

Anywho once he was given a full stack he attacked me, reinforced by 1/2 a stack of troops from a settlement I was besieging. His army consisted of mostly Spearmen, a couple of Cavarly and a few club men. The reinfocement were the same, only no cavarly. My forces were 4 Brenthin (sp) Generals, 1 Louges Epos, 4 Gaesatae, the rest a mix a Botoroas and Alpine swordsmen. In the battle I employed the MP and so far 100% effectice tactic of "holding the center & one flank, while outflaning the opposite flank with Gaesatae and nailing it with charging Brenthin in the back". It always leads to an instant rout exept for the Elite troops.

However, the Sweboz never routed. Not a single unit routed. Eventually my lines broke, my generals died exept for 1, and my Gaesatae fought to the last man.

I was pissed, I attributed my defeat to the "reinforcements" so I exited, and reLoaded that turn. I Got my A*** beat again!!!:furious3: Thankfully I only lost 1 General this time.

I accepted my defeat and sent a second full stack, this time against the Sweboz stack alone. I was confident in my victory. Same Swebi army, I had a similar one but only 2 Generals and 3 Louges Epos.
Result: A** beat!!!!!! :wall: AGAIN!!! Sweboz only lost 1/4 of their army, and I lost nearly all my men. My geneals got away.

Soon the Sweboz moved to my lands, I put together a 3rd army. This time 5 Brenthin Generals, 4 Gaesatae, 2 Gallic Axe guys and the rest Botoroas. I was pissed and determined to destroy them. I picked a nice flat ground to make my cavarly charge effective. HOWEVER!!! Again the Sweboz NEVER routed!!!~:pissed:
Here I paid attention, :study: even though the Sweboz unit were down to 20 men out of 120, being defeted, scared by Gaesatae, with Cavarly behind them they never routed. I saw the Sweboz General was giving them a HUGE moral bonus.

So my 4th Army was made up of 5 Gaesate with 2 especially positioned to kill that General. I that battle I came close, so close.... I lost all of my Generals and Gaesatae trying to kill that fool, and almost succeded. But he got away as my army was torn to peices. ~:mecry:

Now... I was no longer pissed... I was scared (I admit it). As he moved through my lands towards my settlements, I broke my main Campain Rule: NO Elite Armies.

I spent all my $$, I went to dept (-800). At the end I put together 3 newly married Brenthin Generals, 1 Leuges Epos, 2 Botoroas, 2 Gallic Axe dudes, and 12 Gaesatae!!! I had realized that the only way to win was to kill most or all the Sweboz units since they would not rout. Thankfully I was able to delay him a few turns with some forts here and there. He brought the same army of spearmen and clubmen, bolstered by gallic and german infantry mercenaries.

-In the battle I kept my cavarly in reserve. I let the Gaesate do most of the fighting, :duel: I kept 2 of them in reserve and would move them up and down the line every time the Sweboz general would move up and down his line. The battle was VERY slow, the two lines met and slug it out, both sides kept reserves. After 1/2 of the sweboz army was dead the Sweboz General finaly commited to attack the center and I send my 2 reserve Gaesate against him. At the same time I commited my cavarly to charge and recharge the General and nearby troops. A few Sweboz units routed after being cut down to 6 or 7 men. 1 of my botoroas and Axe men fled and so did the Louges epos. Finaly I killed the General and finished off the very few remaining Sweboz. :smash:

I had lost a little more than 1/2 my army and but the Sweboz were dead, espcially their version of Hannibal. Thank God for the Gaesatae without them I would be dead. :yes:

After that, the Sweboz could not stop me. :charge:

[General Appo]

im just expressing how bad your luck was...... wow that had to have been a RTW engine first- the AI actually did something smart!.....

Nah, it was more me being stupid than the AI being smart. They most likely arrived at Charax right on time by chance, and I could have defeated them there if I had been smart. If I had just stayed away from the walls I could have used my greatly superior cavalry to flank and destroy their phalanxes, now instead I became trapped against the walls with no space to manouver.
After that I was pretty much screwed, and should have withdrawn my forces in Babylonia or at least face their army in the open instead of hiding inside the walls. Though I could still have made it if they hadn´t put half their army on guarding the other gates in Babylonia, I admit that that was rather intelligent.

[PershsNhpios]

My Getic army besieging Arpi was entirely routed.

I had 8 units of Light Phalanx, 4 Triballoi Swords, 3 Classical Hoplites, 2 Mercenary Generals.

I did not think I would need the 8 Phalanx in addition to defeat 2 units of Polybian Triarii, 2 Principes and some camillan skirmishers.

Nonetheless, I lost one third of my army whilst the phalanx waited at a distance simply attempting to get in the gate!
Only one Triarii cohort held it, and the fight was carried on for ten minutes.

Then the Polybian Principes came down all around me from the walls whilst the other Triarii engaged from further within the city.

When all three hit at once, with the skirmishers throwing javelins in, I lost everyone within two minutes....

This always happens when I fight Romans, they were a determined race, but by god do they have to be this unstoppable?!
Two units of Polybian hastati can defeat 5 Triballoi in a fair fight!

Nevermind, I don't want to start an overpowered thread, I simply want techniques on how to humble the Roman advantage.

If it is possible to, then I don't mind them having a morale advantage at all.

[GodEmperorLeto]

Needless to say, they'd spammed alot of skirmisher peltastai units, so when I engaged them in battle I was forced to chase their soldiers around like an idiot with my footmen and cavalry while they continued to bombard me with javelins and run away. Even though I managed to catch and destroy the odd unit here and there, and of course their regular melee units didn't stand a chance, I still COULD NOT catch the bloody skirmishers.

Look up the Battle of Sphacteria.


I haven't lost this battle. I'm just withdrawing from a difficult position, that's all'. THEN I thought 'I'll bet this is how the Americans felt during Vietnam'.

Actually, imagine suffering 10% casualties, destroying 60% of theirs, leveling a city, all despite having an ineffective idiot for a general, and then have every single one of your provinces rebel back home until you withdraw your soldiers. Then imagine Epiros invading Illyria and gobbling it up. Then you'd understand how SOME Americans felt.

The worst I've ever had was fighting a rebel army composed entirely of skirmishers... on a mountainside. And I had to march uphill to reach them. There was no way around their rear. When all was said and done, I'd lost 5 battles and won the last one. I had to raise an entire stack of cavalry, and that took me several years to come up with the funds for that. Charging uphill they took horrendous casualties, but I won that final battle.

Be careful in Bruttium where your rebels spawn and where you engage them. You may end up fighting a heck of an uphill battle that you weren't expecting to.

[woad&fangs]

I feel your pain NeoSpartan. Basically the same thing is happening to me right now. Those Sweboz bodyguards are nasty. I'm also simultaneosly fighing the Getai out in the Balkans. Lost nearly 40% of my troops, most of which were my top troops on that front, fighting uphill in some woods. In every other battle I've been destroying them in city and flatland fighting. Luckily, Thracian Light Spearmen and Falxmen are a dime a dozen so I can keep that front rolling. I also took 60% casualties in a victory against the Romans in a massive battle between Bononia and Arretium. Originally I lost the battle, again with massive casualties for both sides, but I had a ctd so I got to replay it. The turn before my general got the "restless sleeper" trait so I've been referring to it as the "Battle of the Nightmare" in my head. The Eleuthroi settlement of Vesontio introduced 2,000+ of my soldiers to the the reaper.

In my shortlived Getai campaign my army invaded Naissos and lost 99% of my troops in a draw. Yep, I was down to 10 skirmishers who routed and my factionleader. Not "my faction leader and his bodyguards", nope, just my factionleader. The enemy were all dead except for 5 elite thracians. I didn't want to risk the life of my leader so I just waited for time to run out. Luckily, the thracians were disbanded after the battle because they had so few, so I got to take an undefended Naissos the next turn.

I've had plenty of big defeats or phyrric victories in this game.

[Chris1959]

Segesta!!!

So many times I've lost count. Now in any restart of a Romani campaign they get the full 3 Legion treatment!!

[The Wandering Scholar]

I must say that this has never happened to me, if I should win then I do. Possibly a few defeats against Barbarians as Romans but I always win in the end :beam:

[konny]

Here I paid attention, even though the Sweboz unit were down to 20 men out of 120, being defeted, scared by Gaesatae, with Cavarly behind them they never routed. I saw the Sweboz General was giving them a HUGE moral bonus.

That is the main issue with the Sweboz. You can kill other factions generals pretty easy when the AI charges them in your pikes or hunt down your skirmishers not noting the four units of your heavy cavalry that rush to help from the wings. But not the Sweboz (and KH) bodyguards! They are immune to cavalry and are able to absorb a lot of decent infantry before going down.

When playing the Sweboz I have three or four FMs in the center of my line to hammer through the enemy formation. Not even Pedites Extraordinarii or Gesatae (under fair odds) can hold against that, and all other units in the Sweboz line will rather fight to to the last man than turn and run, due to this massive moral boost from all those FMs.

[NeoSpartan]

That is the main issue with the Sweboz. You can kill other factions generals pretty easy when the AI charges them in your pikes or hunt down your skirmishers not noting the four units of your heavy cavalry that rush to help from the wings. But not the Sweboz (and KH) bodyguards! They are immune to cavalry and are able to absorb a lot of decent infantry before going down.

When playing the Sweboz I have three or four MFers in the center of my line to hammer through the enemy formation. Not even Pedites Extraordinarii or Gesatae (under fair odds) can hold against that, and all other units in the Sweboz line will rather fight to to the last man than turn and run, due to this massive moral boost from all those MFers.

Fixed it for ya :whip:

[PershsNhpios]

What does MF stand for?

Briefly, because I have to get back to CAPO DE TUTTI CAPI II,
could someone offer advice upon my problem with the Romans?

I have detailed it higher up ^!

Thankee! Capo.

[johnhughthom]

Mamily Fembers?

[fenix3279]

It means Mother F**kers

[PershsNhpios]

...

What do the, '**' stand for between the letters capitol f and k?

I am actually finding it difficult to believe all the new posts in the EB forum.. Intriguing.. Perhaps there is a secret role here somewhere.

[marodeur]

Ever been in a campaign when you're the one whose strongest, with great cash flowing in your coffers and excellent standing forces that are composed of factional AND regional troops, and are essentially the undisputed power in your little area of the EB map? And has it ever happened that you invade a province/faction that you know, by using spies, is weak and should easily be a pushover, only to find yourself a couple of turns later licking your wounds and staring at your still-standing enemies in enraged surprise?


It was such an interesting thread until now - back to topic!
:focus:

Recently I ran into some Eleutheroi in the libyan desert: two units of Akontistai (light greek skirmishers) and one of greek slingers. I hab two units of Antesignari and one half unit of numidian light Cavalry. The odds were 3:1 in my favour. It was a desaster. The slingers killed of my numidian cavalry, and the skirmishers did not treat my antesignari very well. I simply could not force them to make a stand-up fight. In the end I lost 2/3 of my forces, killing only 10 % of the enemies... . ~:mecry: I simply had the wrong type of forces at the wrong place at the wrong time. Later on, I destroyed those Eleutheroi with two units of greek cavalry - perfectly suited for this task...:charge:

[Dhampir]

I'm playing 1.0 as Baktria. I cheat to get lots of money because I suck.

I am aware of the great threat that rebel cities pose to attacking armies, so I decide to take Kophen with overwhelming force. I have four armies of several thousand men each of a mix of cheap and mid-level units, units that I bribed from the AS and mercenaries.

With so many troops, if I fight on the battle my machine will bog down and most of the attacking forces won't even show up, being inexplicably "delayed". So, I simmed it.

Well...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/dhampir/GAH.jpg

[PershsNhpios]

..?

I don't see any problem here. The AI probably knew you sucked and decided to suck themselves.
I don't mean to be rude, but I really would like to know how people defeat Roman units without ending up as sucky as Dhampir.
Or does no one else find any trouble with them?

Oh, by the way - I recommend the Win Conditions thread in the unofficial mods forum for those who haven't read it - it has destroyed any boredom I was feeling with EB.

[marodeur]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/dhampir/GAH.jpg

bye, bye, little bactrian boys...

~:mecry:

give peace a chance...:hippie:

Post No. 100! Yuppie!

[Gebeleisis]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/dhampir/GAH.jpg



OMFG!!!!!!!!
I think in that moment i'd trew my monitor of the window and eat my desk:furious3:










:inquisitive:

[Tiberius Nero]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/dhampir/GAH.jpg

:inquisitive:

That can only be photoshopped.

[bovi]

I believe it. The autocalc can do weird things.

[Gebeleisis]

i do also bovi.
why photoshop your own defeat to make it bigger :laugh4: ?

[Dhampir]

The campaign at the hardest setting has the most ridiculous rebels imaginable.

[blado]

I haven't really been defeated by a smaller force on land. But when I was at war with Greece (can't remember the EB name) I sent tons of my fleets and they completely destroyed them all. I must of lost 100s of ships. Finally I managed to destroy their weakened fleet and they lost more than a stack of men.

[Barbarian]

Well, not really a defeat, but a strange event. Don't have a screenshot, but that wouldn't really portray the story.
Now. I was attacking one of the AS cities (playing as Baktria, of course). Don't remember the name really, but that makes no difference. I had quite overwhelming force, to take the city, which was being protected by the large stone walls. Odds were 3vs1 or 4vs1, but didn't have many units capable of taking walls, my army consisted of cavalry, archers and phalanxes. So, I was very happy, when the walls fell easily, although, the fighting of them was long, due to the high-quality armor of attackers and defenders.
After this, I surrounded the town square from all entrances, because there were some extremely good cavalry units inside it and I didn't wanted to loose a lot of men needlessly, I expected to attack from all directions, and finish them quickly. Setting all units at their positions took a lot of time, but I thought: "who cares? I still have 10 minutes left to kill some 200-300 riders".

I ordered to lunch a volley, and hundreds of arrows and javelins filled the air. After that - surrounded the enemy with my phalanxes, axmen and heavy cavalry. They held well, but all were dead, when 3,5 minutes were left. I didn't got the "clear victory" message, so, I begun looking for any enemies left on the square. Here are the next events:

Time left till the end of the battle/ what I thought:

3:20 / "Ha! Found you! Only their general left! This will be fun. (pressed ctrl+a and ordered all my army to attack him)

3:00 / (a counter of time left till the victory of AS appears). "Oh, That's nothing. I only have to kill their general. Hmm, he is still alive, usually totaly surrounded soldiers die instantly:inquisitive: "

2:30 / "Wow! He is tough! Should be dead already, he is receiving some 10 hits per second! A heroic last stand :2thumbsup:"

2:00 / Hey! How many hitpoints does this dude have?!? He must be a real trait-machine :dizzy2: "

1:30 / wtf? This is not funny anymore! :no:

1:00 / This must be some bug! I should inform the EB team :furious3: :skull:

0:30 / Die you bastard!!! :wall:

0:15 / Noooo!!! I Can't afford to loose this battle! :help:

0:07 / (the general dies finally, giving me my well deserved victory) :sweatdrop:

[General Appo]

:laugh4:
I´ve experienced the immortal general myself a couple of times, but I´ve never seen one hold out for that long. Frustrating.

[NeoSpartan]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/dhampir/GAH.jpg

dude.... don't ever autocalc unless ur sending 500 cheap units vs 200 AI cheapos.

[marodeur]

Time left till the end of the battle/ what I thought:

3:20 / "Ha! Found you! Only their general left! This will be fun. (pressed ctrl+a and ordered all my army to attack him)

3:00 / (a counter of time left till the victory of AS appears). "Oh, That's nothing. I only have to kill their general. Hmm, he is still alive, usually totaly surrounded soldiers die instantly:inquisitive: "

2:30 / "Wow! He is tough! Should be dead already, he is receiving some 10 hits per second! A heroic last stand :2thumbsup:"

2:00 / Hey! How many hitpoints does this dude have?!? He must be a real trait-machine :dizzy2: "

1:30 / wtf? This is not funny anymore! :no:

1:00 / This must be some bug! I should inform the EB team :furious3: :skull:

0:30 / Die you bastard!!! :wall:

0:15 / Noooo!!! I Can't afford to loose this battle! :help:

0:07 / (the general dies finally, giving me my well deserved victory) :sweatdrop:

I know that problem too. Especially with seleukid/makedonian generals. Only way to kill those guys in adequate time (in my experience) is with slingers or other ranged weapons - but normally at the end of a hard battle, there is no ammunition left. Already lost twice beacause of an immortal faction leader.
:furious3: :furious3:

[Dhampir]

dude.... don't ever autocalc unless ur sending 500 cheap units vs 200 AI cheapos.

I'm not even going to try fighting a battle that big.

[Belisarius Maximus]

I've only just installed EB myself, so I dont have any major/weird defeat stories (yet..) but I remember two exceptionally bad ones from Vanilla RTW. the first was during my julii campaign and I was ahead of schedule (historically speaking) and I was conquering Gaul with a pre-marian army around 240bc. When I reached condate redonum the Gauls threw a gigantic full stack at me accompanied by Condate redonums's garrison. The battlefield had conveniently some woods to the left of my army, into which I hid about one quarter of my forces. The battle begins and as the Gauls emerge I suddenly realise the larger army is coming up my rear thanks to the illogical deployment of their forces in relation to the campaign map. I begin to fight a rather desperate battle, and thanks to some still unknown circumstance to me, my army made a mass rout, and routed straight through the larger gallic army, and so none survived. Everyone was seemingly dead so I wondered why the battle hadn't ended, upon which point I realised the 1/4 of my army I had hid at the start was still waiting patiently in the woods. Taking into account the swift dispatch of the other 3/4 I then won a seemingly impossible victory with only the last 1/4 against the horde that I had thought minutes ago had spelled my doom. It was a great victory as far as my tactical skill is concerned but, back on the campaign map the gauls wiped out this now paltry army and took back all the territory between condate redonum and narbo martius, which was guarded by skeleton garrisons of mercenary warbands.

Later in the same campaign, after conquering Gaul a second time, I was in the process of eliminating the spanish. Narbo Martius (which by now was a large city) had a gladiator uprising on a huge scale. I had just had the marian reforms and so I reluctantly diverted a newly recruited full stack bursting full of praetorian and legionary cohorts to deal with the rebels. I then lost every last soldier in a battle against a preposterously huge army composed of every elite cavalry and infantry unit from Britain to Armenia. I was not amused. Eventually I crushed them with an army of surplus pre-marian troops, winning the victory through weight of numbers more than anything else...:brood:

[Ayce]

I know that problem too. Especially with seleukid/makedonian generals. Only way to kill those guys in adequate time (in my experience) is with slingers or other ranged weapons - but normally at the end of a hard battle, there is no ammunition left. Already lost twice beacause of an immortal faction leader.
:furious3: :furious3:

That's why I never use time limits.

[Visitor13]

I'm not even going to try fighting a battle that big.

I've had stuff like that happen to me also when autoresolving, my casualties exceeding five thousand while the AI got out with nary a scratch.

Generally, an enemy settlement + enemy full stack + autocalc = crushing defeat. Especially if the AI is led by a family member.

Set "allow unlimited men on the battlefield" to true in the preferences.txt to have all your men show up on the battlefield at the same time. So that you can command them personally instead of autoresolving.

Although you'll probably have to lower your graphics settings to avoid a heavy FPS hit.

[Hooahguy]

That's why I never use time limits.
i second that- time limits can kiss my behind! :chucks:

[Barbarian]

Without time limits some battles wold never end. For example: AI atacks a city, but just stands outside and does nothing. If there is atime limit, it loses the battle, or begins rushing at the gates, when some 2 minutes are left and receives a volley of arrows.
If there is no time limit, AI stands there forever, and I have to either go out and fight it, which is totally unfair, because I wasn't the attacker, or end the battle, which means an automatic loss.
Time limit fixes this: if you are the attacker, you really have to attack.

[Tiberius Nero]

Without time limits some battles wold never end. For example: AI atacks a city, but just stands outside and does nothing. If there is atime limit, it loses the battle, or begins rushing at the gates, when some 2 minutes are left and receives a volley of arrows.
If there is no time limit, AI stands there forever, and I have to either go out and fight it, which is totally unfair, because I wasn't the attacker, or end the battle, which means an automatic loss.
Time limit fixes this: if you are the attacker, you really have to attack.

I agree completely, time limits are there for countering AI stupidity in such cases; at any rate in the hundreds of battles I have played over dozens of campaigns there has been perhaps one or two instances where a battle ended due to time limit and I would have prefered it to continue; most big battles should be over in ~20 minutes at most anyway.

[Belisarius Maximus]

I agree, time limits are a good idea, but they can also be a real pain, for example, when I took syracuse (or tried to) I forced the defenders back to the town square itself, and they only had the remains of one unit of syracusan hoplites by this point versus my full stack. They were surrounded in the square fighting to the death with 2 minutes left. When the timer ran out they had something like 2 guys left, and I had clearly won, but because the timer ran out I technically lost, and had to assault the city again two turns later... This is only really a freak event though, I just took too long getting past the walls.

[eadingas]

Not really a crushing defeat, but something that shook my confidence a bit:

Playing as Sweboz, H/M (I don't feel confident enough for VH yet in 1.0) I've crushed Arverni, Casse and Romani, held pretty much all of Western Europe and left one province of Aedui as a buffer between me and Karthies, in case. The Karthies held all of Iberia except for two or three Lusotannan provinces in the west, and I was preparing for a showdown between us over the Mediterranean. I had my eastern horde trying for nth time to conquer one of the Boii province, the northern one cleaning up after Casse, and the southern one on the tip of Italy, preparing to march into Sicily, with just a half-stack of levies guarding the Pyreneean border, as the Carthaginian forces to the south did not pose as immediate threat as those in Sicily.

However, soon after Kart-Hadasht, as expected, challenged me to the war, they were encroached by the Lusotannan and - wonder of wonders - the Aedui, who managed somehow to muster two full stacks of good units. Within a year or two, Karthies were removed from the peninsula completely, and the Aedui and Lusotannan were moving towards my lands.

Before I managed to call all my hordes to that new frontline, I lost almost entire Gaul. The Lusotannan took entire Atlantic coast all the way to Seine, and Aedui went up to Gergovia in the north and Massalia in the east.

Two things made this turn out lucky for me: 1) Carthaginians pleaded for ceasefire after the beating they got in Iberia, so I had a full stack of experienced troops ready to be shipped from Sicilia across Med without their fleet harassing me on the way, and 2) My 10-star faction leader was in the area with a handful of triple-chevroned alpine phalanx and pikemen - entire Aedui military force bled themselves to death trying to go past him. It still took me a good couple of years to move my borders back to the Pyrenees and beyond.

Good thing my relations with the Dacii are very good so far. If they decided to stab me in the back then, things would look very dire for my Empire...

[marodeur]

I agree completely, time limits are there for countering AI stupidity in such cases; at any rate in the hundreds of battles I have played over dozens of campaigns there has been perhaps one or two instances where a battle ended due to time limit and I would have prefered it to continue; most big battles should be over in ~20 minutes at most anyway.

That's one of the reasons for me too, additionally there is the problem of horse archers running around infinitely if you do not have some very fast cavalry units too. :charge:

[General Appo]

Once as the Romani sometime in the begining of my empire building a small band of rebels had popped up near Taras. After finding out that the rebels only consisted of a single unit of leves I foolishly sent a unit of Triarii to take them out. The Triarii got there, charged them, and continued to charge towards them for 40 minutes. I just chased after those damn Leves for the entire battle, and they refused to stop. Nobody died, but I was getting damn tired and so decided to retreat. I did so, but got "your army has disbanded" message afterwards. Incredible! Not a single man died, but they still decided to disband. Next time I just auto-calced, won easily.

[The Celtic Viking]

I'm not even going to try fighting a battle that big.

Then auto_win attacker/defender is your friend. :)