Go north young Roman...

[antisocialmunky]

Does anyone here every see the Romans expand into the Sicily instead of attritioning the people of the Po Valley into dust?

I've rarely seen then even take Taras... Its REALLY annoying.

[Mediolanicus]

Well the first few years, the Romans hardly do anything. But after about 50 years they usually have takes Sicilia or Corsica and Sardinia and are starting to expand into southern Gaul and the Illyria. At least, so they do in my campains.

[anubis88]

well.... once when i played with carthage i helped the take taras and reghion, left messana barely defended so thy conquered it... And then they did take the rest of sicily... They sent 3 legions, and i left them have it after 2 battles for roleplaying reasons

[Torvus]

Yeah, i find that annoying too. In my campaigns, they almost always head straight into Germany. in fact, i had a campaign where Hannibal's people kicked the Romans out of Italy and they migrated into Germany.

Imagine what the world would be like if that actually happened:inquisitive:

[TWFanatic]

Indeed, Rome rarely expands into Sicily, never mind Corsica or Sardinia. If you're lucky and they do expand southwards, its at a much slower rate than their northern expansion.

[NeoSpartan]

true... but is not as bad as in .81x

The new Boii Gallum, Helvetii, and other tribes are much stronger now. Before the Romani where reaching Gaul proper by 268BC, now they take much much longer.

[NEver]

Konny's win conditions alterations are kinda attempting to ammend this and switching to alexander improves the AI in general but even after all that Rome still has this irritating tendency to go north instead of south. They seem to be expanding along the shores more which is good.

It's very different from the agessive scipii south expansion in vanilla. Maybe if the EB team tried to make all the AI relations and scripts for SPQR more similar to Vanilla's scipii faction... But I doubt it

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The AI factions always go for rebels before they attack other factions. Since Taras is in Epieros' hands, they will try to take as many rebels they can before they attack it, causing them to go north.

I also heard a theory somewhere, once, that said that the AI is programed to prefer to go north first, then northeast, then east... clockwise all around. Thus southwest to Sicilia would be way down on the AI's list, as the Romani.

[Justinian II]

Yeah, i find that annoying too. In my campaigns, they almost always head straight into Germany. in fact, i had a campaign where Hannibal's people kicked the Romans out of Italy and they migrated into Germany.

Imagine what the world would be like if that actually happened:inquisitive:


Wasn't there an alternate historical fiction novel about something like that?

[antisocialmunky]

Yes, the 'Great German Migration,' I have more than once seen or heard of (World According to the KH) the Roman's lust to see the scantily clad women of the Proto-Scandinavian Baltic Coast.

I really hope the inclusion of the Boii/N. Italian Faction in EB2 fixes this since that seems like the only real possibility of making it work as sticking a legion by Taras would just trigger the Pyhrric 'walk away... just walk away' from Pella response -you get a balloon if you can guess what that's refering too. Perhaps if they were placed with Taras being between them and their territory... I wonder though what would happen if you put a Rebel stack to stand in for some Samnites that are conquered(mentioned in the History popup) would encourage them to take Rhegion. It would be nice to have the factions in Italy in a epic death struggle from the outset(the factions in Gaul ALWAYS seem to beat the snot out of each other).

[NeoSpartan]

Yes, the 'Great German Migration,' I have more than once seen or heard of (World According to the KH) the Roman's lust to see the scantily clad women of the Proto-Scandinavian Baltic Coast.

I really hope the inclusion of the Boii/N. Italian Faction in EB2 fixes this since that seems like the only real possibility of making it work as sticking a legion by Taras would just trigger the Pyhrric 'walk away... just walk away' from Pella response -you get a balloon if you can guess what that's refering too. Perhaps if they were placed with Taras being between them and their territory... I wonder though what would happen if you put a Rebel stack to stand in for some Samnites that are conquered(mentioned in the History popup) would encourage them to take Rhegion. It would be nice to have the factions in Italy in a epic death struggle from the outset(the factions in Gaul ALWAYS seem to beat the snot out of each other).

Hey I actually like that idea of a Sammite settlement with a strong rebel stack in Italy..... or maybe just a rebal stack or two :book:

[General Appo]

But.... wouldn´t that be historicaly incorrect? Sure there could appear rebel stacks of Samnites within Roman territory, perhaps even scripted, but a Samnite settlement? Besides, Rhegion was controlled by the threacherous half Romans sent there to defend the city against Pyrrhus, and even though some of these men could easily have been Samnites, I don´t think we can go so far as to make it a Samnite city.
But really, the problem with Rome´s expansions is that is was historicaly so great that the AI has major problems following it, even human players have problem taking Taras during the first 4 turns, and then almost immiditaly taking Rhegion is even harder. I´ve often seen the Romans besieging Taras and Rhegion only to be beaten back.

[konny]

The AI factions always go for rebels before they attack other factions. Since Taras is in Epieros' hands, they will try to take as many rebels they can before they attack it, causing them to go north.


I had changed the ownership of Taras to rebell. That plus the VCs at least had made a 90% chance (in my tests) that the Romans attack (and take!) Taras first. But they still prefer to go North afterwards instead of Rhegion - which is as rebell as Bononia is.

Another point is that also Carthage is hardly doing anything in Sicily or Southern Italy. They always have a full stack hiding the bushes near Lilibeo, but leave Messana and Syracusae more or less alone. I think that the AI regards these three towns for reasons unknown to us as worthless to conquer or hard to hold after conquest.

Other theories:

There are pathfinding problems in this region. In this case we should see a number of pinned stacks from both factions standing around. But that's rare, and the three Northern towns have a nightmare of pathfinding for the AI (hills, 90° turns and the like). And the Epeirote often take Rhegion (but hardly cross into Sicily afterwards)

The AI is heading for Latium (Gotland, vanilla VC). In this case the EB Romans (who are the vanilla Seleucids) would be the only ones to do so - so why should they?

The three full stacks are regarded as a threat to the AI. That is something should be tested.

The AI is heading for the hughe "empty" (= rebell) lands along and North of the Danube. That is most likely because also Sweboz, Epeiros and Makedonia are heading in the same direction even though the latter two have better to do.

The "clockwise" theory doesn't seem to apply because the Sweboz, Arverni and Aedui are always heading South first, even though they have rebell towns North of their starting position.

[Sand]

Somewhat pleased with the Romans in my current campaign: They havent got to Sicily but thats due to a rather entertaining scrap between them and Epiros who I kicked out of Greece and who surprised me by gradually rolling the Romans back north into the Po valley, took Roma and won the war. A lot of the Roman defeat can be laid at the feet of the AI trying to head north as well, whereas the Epirotes concentrated almost entirely on taking Roman cities.

After a rather decisive Epirote defeat in Sicily by the Carthaginians, the Romans have swung back into the fight, liberated Roma and Arpi [ IIRC] and are sieging Taras. Its been interesting to observe the fight. The AI appears able to fight wars in Italy and Sicily, so its the Rebels vs Faction preference that seems to be the initial issue - Im almost sorry that Im going to have to intervene again shortly.

[Reno Melitensis]

Do not intervene military, unless you have too, use your spies and assassins.

Cheers.

[Ayce]

In my campaign they just went for the Pyrenees area and Atlantic Ocean access. They didn't cross the Alps and they successfully pushed Qarthadast out of Sicily and Epeiros out of the peninsula.

[antisocialmunky]

I've seen Carthage try to take Sicily only to get smacked down by the crazy garrisons. Those garrisons get ridiculous amoutns of chevrons in some games...

[Lusted]

Question to EB team, why didn't you use the Scipii faction slot for the Romans as the Scipii in vanilla always expanded into Sicily and Nroth Africa before going to Greece/France.

[Obelics]

Question to EB team, why didn't you use the Scipii faction slot for the Romans as the Scipii in vanilla always expanded into Sicily and Nroth Africa before going to Greece/France.

that is true... really good idea for me. (hope it is faisable)

[Tellos Athenaios]

Question to EB team, why didn't you use the Scipii faction slot for the Romans as the Scipii in vanilla always expanded into Sicily and Nroth Africa before going to Greece/France.

Then again when someone played the Scipii he always got missions to focus on Sicily & Carthage. I don't know how that was coded into RTW, but it might be that the AI simply followed orders?

(As for your question: I wouldn't know, since I wasn't around at the time. Obviously it would be both larborious and error-prone (even if someone wrote a tool for it) to change it back now, when all this stuff has become mildly complicated. I mean: the comments wouldn't make sense anymore either, would they?)

[Lusted]

True, given the little i've seen of EB's text files, they are complicated to say the least. But in regards to the Romans i think part of their actions are faction hardcoded as in TE the Romans always expand into Gaul just like the Julii which the faction is based on. I'm going to be doing some testing to see if changign them to scipii internally makes any difference.

And i've just remembered that the Romans being the Seleucids in EB was done because of the limitations of 1.2, which changed with 1.3/1.5 but given how complicated EB is it could cause problems. Changing the factions themselves isn't too difficult if you know all the text files you need to change.

[Geoffrey S]

To be honest I'd have thought the Scipii preference for Sicily and further was caused by being surrounded on all other borders by unbreakable alliances, as with all other Roman families.

[Lusted]

Given the fact that the Scipii performs a lot more naval invasions in vanilla leads me to believe it's more than that.

[Sarkiss]

True, given the little i've seen of EB's text files, they are complicated to say the least. But in regards to the Romans i think part of their actions are faction hardcoded as in TE the Romans always expand into Gaul just like the Julii which the faction is based on. I'm going to be doing some testing to see if changign them to scipii internally makes any difference.

And i've just remembered that the Romans being the Seleucids in EB was done because of the limitations of 1.2, which changed with 1.3/1.5 but given how complicated EB is it could cause problems. Changing the factions themselves isn't too difficult if you know all the text files you need to change.
let us know how it goes please.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Who are the Scipii in EB now? In my current Carthage campaign the Ptolemies built a lot of fleets. I actually had to build a major fleet which costs me about 9,500 per turn to counter them.

[The Wandering Scholar]

The AI factions always go for rebels before they attack other factions. Since Taras is in Epieros' hands, they will try to take as many rebels they can before they attack it, causing them to go north.

I also heard a theory somewhere, once, that said that the AI is programed to prefer to go north first, then northeast, then east... clockwise all around. Thus southwest to Sicilia would be way down on the AI's list, as the Romani.

Interesting, is this tue for all the TW series?

[Pezlu]

Who are the Scipii in EB now? In my current Carthage campaign the Ptolemies built a lot of fleets. I actually had to build a major fleet which costs me about 9,500 per turn to counter them.

Scipii = Hayasdan
The Ptolemaioi use the Numidia faction slot

[Obelics]

The AI factions always go for rebels before they attack other factions. Since Taras is in Epieros' hands, they will try to take as many rebels they can before they attack it, causing them to go north.

So why not having Taras as Rebel, and give it a garrison of Epirote Like units. Then if the Human player is playing as Rome, via scripting there could be added a stack of Epiros units outside Taras. So Epiros could be in war with Rome.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Scipii = Hayasdan
The Ptolemaioi use the Numidia faction slot
I never saw Hayasdan building any ships. And why, they don't have too... I don't think this is related. Probably the Vanilla Scipiones go after Carthage because a) they alreay have a settlement on Sicily and have no other place to go, and b) the Senate gives them Missions like "conquer Lilibeo", "conquer Carthage". I have never seen excessive ship-building in Vanilla btw. The factions more or less stick to what they got at the beginning iirc.

[Pezlu]

I don't know anything at this level of modding, however it seems plausible to me that the scipii attacked sicily and carthage jsut because there was no space in the other directions... the problem is that it requires naval invasions; if we follow this reasonment then the casse in EB would invade gaul when they have conquered the british islands :inquisitive:

[The Wandering Scholar]

The only way is forward

[konny]

I never saw Hayasdan building any ships. And why, they don't have too... I don't think this is related. Probably the Vanilla Scipiones go after Carthage because a) they alreay have a settlement on Sicily and have no other place to go, and b) the Senate gives them Missions like "conquer Lilibeo", "conquer Carthage". I have never seen excessive ship-building in Vanilla btw. The factions more or less stick to what they got at the beginning iirc.

I am pretty sure that these operations are scripted by the Senate's missions, for example the Julii landing on Corsica. BTW, is there any chance to mod Senate Missions?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I am pretty sure that these operations are scripted by the Senate's missions, for example the Julii landing on Corsica. BTW, is there any chance to mod Senate Missions?
That *might* be a feasable way I think. Scripted "Senate missions" for the factions to help them expand in the correct direction. Perhaps connected to a test "settlements already owned by faction" to keep it feasable. Surely a lot of work that would slow down the game further (It's not too slow for me on my compi).