Build better units or equip units better?

[Mori Gabriel Syme]

I'm unsure which strategy to use. Should I use my treasury to improve the units I can build before I try to construct buildings which improve morale, armor, etc., or should I give my early units better equipment before trying to build more advanced units.

I understand that sometimes one ends up doing both, e.g., to build a better unit requires an armorers' guild which also provides other units with better equipment. I'm curious as to the emphasis folks put on one or the other.

------------------
Others enslave by victory,
Their subjects, as their foes, oppress;
Anna conquers but to free,
And governs but to bless. -- Edmund Smith (Anna stands for England)

[This message has been edited by Mori Gabriel Syme (edited 10-04-2002).]

[hrvojej]

It depends. I usually want to get some decent unit types first, but after I have them available, I usually beef up the improvements before the next step. I try to get arbs, feudal sergeants and mounted sergeants, for example, to have a decent army if I need to use it, and then concentrate on armour, monastery, etc. before I progress to chivs.
Also, if I specialize the rpovinces for one unit type, the choices are different. I don't need too much improvements for missile units, for example, but I like to have those for the infantry.

[Yoko Kono]

i tend to use 1 province for missle troops, 1 for infantry, 1 for cav and 1 for spearmen and sometimes 1 for mercs and ships

[Pragmatic]

What buildings produce what unit upgrades?

Metalsmiths provide bonuses to attack.
Armorers provide bonuses to defense.

What else is there?

I remember, one game I was playing (heavy cheating...), Constantinople was fully developed, with cheated-in Iron. I was producing Kataphraktoi that started out Loyalty 6-ish, Piety 5, Dread 3, Command 3, and Acumen 3. I got several in a row, so I think it's something built into the buildings.

[Grifman]

Religious buildings increase morale.

Every level of building beyond what is required for your unit gives +1 valor, which is +1 attack, +1 defense, +2 morale - I think that is right.

In other words, if a swordsmith is required for you unit, but you have a swordsmith's shop in the province, you'll get boosted stats. This is an incentive for you to build higher level buildings even if they don't give you much - like the Byzantine infantry for example. Continuing to build advanced buildings can really "buff" your lower level units.

I'd also say this means even more that provinces should specialize. Say you are going to build a province to produce Byzantine infantry. Build a swordsmith, swordsmith shop, guild, and master and you can really pump them. But since you can hardly go up the tech tree for all units in one province like this, best to stick to one unit type at a time.

Grifman

[Dorkus]

Grif, are you sure about this? I haven't noticed much of a difference betw. my byz infantry produced from a region with the swords workshop vs. the ones produced w/o the swords workshop.

Assuming that the upgrade actually works, does anyone know if it applies to ALL units with a particular weapon, or only for those units that require the upgrading building for production. For example, would AUMs get an upgrade from swords workshops/guilds, despite the fact that their prereq building is the town guard?

[Vanya]

I think the upgrade honor thing is not fully functional and is being fixed in the patch. I could be wrong though...

GAH!

[Grifman]

GAH!

Yes, fixed in patch!

GAH!

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Grifman

[Grifman]

Quote Originally posted by Dorkus:
Grif, are you sure about this? I haven't noticed much of a difference betw. my byz infantry produced from a region with the swords workshop vs. the ones produced w/o the swords workshop.

Assuming that the upgrade actually works, does anyone know if it applies to ALL units with a particular weapon, or only for those units that require the upgrading building for production. For example, would AUMs get an upgrade from swords workshops/guilds, despite the fact that their prereq building is the town guard? [/QUOTE]


No, AUM should get an upgrade from upgrading the required building which is the town guard building.

Grifman

[Dionysus9]

Mori--

Well, I think, ideally, you would make the upgrades first. That way even while you have crappy units they will at least enjoy the upgrades. When you finally get the buff units, they will be super-buff because of the pre-existing upgrades.

That is easier said than done though, and if your units have crappy morale, extra weapon quality wont help them much.

In practice you have to compromise and go forward with upgrades and troop quality at the same time. It's funny that I say "upgrade first" because in my SP campaign I went straight for the good units and havent built any armorers yet.

I think next time I will take my own advice. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[andrewt]

I like to use all units so build better units. Usually though, whenever a unit requires a level of armorer, I build the armorer first to get use out of it.

[TomThumbKOP]

Here is what crusader_build_prod13.txt has to say on the subject:

BOWYER
ARMOURER UPGRADE_ARMOUR(1), UPGRADE_ARMOUR(2), UPGRADE_ARMOUR(3), UPGRADE_ARMOUR(4)
SWORDSMITH
METALSMITH UPGRADE_WEAPON(1), UPGRADE_WEAPON(2), UPGRADE_WEAPON(3),UPGRADE_WEAPON(4)
SPEARMAKER {}, {UPGRADE_VALOUR(1)}, {UPGRADE_VALOUR(2)}
SIEGE_ENGINEER
GUNSMITH
TOWN_WATCH
MERCHANT
INN
TAVERN
BROTHEL
ROYAL_PALACE
CHANCELLERY
CONSTABLES_PALACE
MARSHALS_PALACE
ADMIRALTY
UNIVERSITY
COLLEGE_OF_SURGEONS
MILITARY_ACADEMY UPGRADE_DISCIPLINE(1)
IMPROVED_FARMLAND
HORSE_BREEDER
ROYAL_COURT
CHURCH UPGRADE_MORALE(1)
MOSQUE UPGRADE_MORALE(1)
MONASTERY UPGRADE_MORALE(1)
RELIQUARY UPGRADE_MORALE(2)
CATHEDRAL UPGRADE_MORALE(3)
GRAND_MOSQUE UPGRADE_MORALE(3)
CHAPTER_HOUSE
RIBAT UPGRADE_MORALE(2)
WATCH_TOWERS
PORT
SHIPYARD
FOUNDRY
COPPER_MINE
SILVER_MINE
GOLD_MINE
SALT_MINE