{title}: Total War

[Red Spot]

Have been working with this game for some time now and have come to a point where I think I have the skill and knowledge to make a pretty decent mod, actually have already made several (minor) mods but nothing spectactular.
Now I'm about to sort of finalize the setup of what will become a grand-mod revolving around a Roman-oriantated faction, but I'm in a bit of doubt about some things and hoped that possibly a fresh look at the "global concept" by other could help me make up my mind .... :smiley:

Edit;
this is what I'll be using in EarthSculptor;
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/949/xxxmapheightsvr5.th.jpg (https://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxmapheightsvr5.jpg)

https://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1396/xxxlayoutsoo7.th.jpg (https://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxlayoutsoo7.jpg)
https://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8430/xxxregionsfr2.th.jpg (https://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxregionsfr2.jpg)

/edit.

The "global concept" would be that the player is a Roman-faction with a full set of units as you more or less know them from vanilla but with a bit of a visual tweak, like the Roman-bodyguard;
https://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1933/bodygxd5.th.jpg (https://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bodygxd5.jpg)

The map will be made with specific "climate clusters", meaning a part of the map (north and south) will be all desert, other parts light and dense woodland, etc etc .. factions will be balanced to make serious advantage of the climates/winter-summer-cycles, and probably something in the form of a 12-turn year may be included so winter and summer can make or break your campaign.

As a special, say role-playing thingy sort of thing, I intend on making 2 maybe 3 lines of troops for certain factions, like you as Roman (the one with the brain) can choose between winter or summer dressed troops, to make better use of these long cycles, and have a fighting chance in a different than your own "climate-cluster". For some AI factions I intend to make a dual-setup, for instance with desert-factions, they get desert-troops in the desert and eastern-look-alikes when out of the desert, though they dont get a choice (they dont have that "brain" thingy working for them :wink: )

Edit;
Dillema taken care of ..:D
But suggestions are still welcome ;)
/edit.

Anyway this is sort of what I'm currently working on and this is your chance to possibly influence it a bit, I'm not saying that whatever suggested is included but it may very well be so ... :2thumbsup:


:feedback:


G

[Aradan]

First of all, I love the mod's name! :P

I'd go with either the multi-Roman setup or the singe-Roman setup. if you go the multi- way, which faction gets to be the superfaction, the central one? And where exactly on the map do the Romans go? Aaaand also, Nomads are in dense forest regions? Seems a tad unfiting.

[Dol Guldur]

Good to see modders thinking a little outside the box.

I'd like to see more of a statement of what the mod is or tries to achieve though - clearly it is not based in the real-world so what is the explanation behind it? Is it more of an abstract battle mod?

[Red Spot]

First of all, I love the mod's name! :P

I'd go with either the multi-Roman setup or the singe-Roman setup. if you go the multi- way, which faction gets to be the superfaction, the central one? And where exactly on the map do the Romans go? Aaaand also, Nomads are in dense forest regions? Seems a tad unfiting.

Yeah, was thinking about for the time calling it "Roman Fantasy; TW" but figured that could make people think this orientated about something completelly different than combat and strategie ... :freak:

In the super-faction the regular senate will be positioned in the absolute center (why I use a 1019pixel heightsmap, so I have an absolute center pixel in map_regions) with probably around 5-ish settlements to give the other 3 someone to fight once the cival-wars break out, than the other 3 romans, north, south/east and south/west in the area, pretty crowed starting-position compared to other factions.
The sub-romans (roman in look, cathagenian in culture-tag) will be as far away as pretty much possible from the main-romans, on small 3 to 5 settlement ilands on the boarder of the map east and west.

Dont see the Nomads as real nomads, see them as a developed, hard-hitting, developed barbarian culture, a roman equivalant but not with the more defensive stats but more offensive orientated stats. (and warcry ...)

Cultures are basicly just tags, I guess I'll end up with some very fitting names in the end, like "wood people" or so ....




Good to see modders thinking a little outside the box.

I'd like to see more of a statement of what the mod is or tries to achieve though - clearly it is not based in the real-world so what is the explanation behind it? Is it more of an abstract battle mod?

First of all, and guess it wont come as a surprise, I love the Roman-look and testudo capable legions, so I want to play as Roman, and against Romans *stomps with feet on the ground*. Why I also have made the Nomads a sort of Barbarian/Roman type of culture, they have a clear resemblance with the Romans but than again are clearly not ...
There isnt a real label I can give the mod, I like to create a game where the AI behaves as its set up, and the player is forced to think ..
Like the winter and summer units, eventhough you have 6 advanced and experianced full legions ready to do some invading, if these men arent dressed for the season the penalty will effectivly leave you with 1/2 the strength, combine this with slightly longer recruitment, so a legionaire may take 2 turns to recruit, together with low movement it will force you to plan everything very carefully, spies are mayorly important as you cant just train and combine some units to a capable force to fend of an attacker, you need to plan this defense in advance, start distributing troops several turns in advance, make the choice between 1-turn recruited light infantry or 2-turn heavy legionaires to be recruited for as long as you have for the enemy says hello ...

In a nut-shell, I'm trying to get as much "feature" in the game by combining Rome and BI, building a map and layout wich the AI can handle, with clear power-centers by clustering settlements here and there. In a form it isnt too straightforward/easy for the player, and hopefully give you a campaign of epic-proporsion, at least in the form of turns needed to achieve victory-conditions and battles fought in that time.

Must admit though that after pretty much having worked with the different aspects of the game I know pretty much wich direction I want to go, wich is gameplay, but the maze of "tweaks" and features I have lined up make it pretty much impossible to give you a good impression of it whole package, as for a part I dont yet know, and other part to be kept as surprise ... :evil: ....
The most important aspect is probably the "player-faction", a single faction set up to be played by the player, and clearly different in its workings to allow for more involved gameplay and a positions where you start as the underdog ...


Edit; forgat ... within the multi-setup I've been playing around with a bit of a story, something for faction-descriptions basicly ..
Wich is that you have your established Romans, wich once had given 2 families the order to expand east and west. The barbarians have surprised the unsuspecting Roman families and have cut them of from the other families, leaving a distinct disliking from all Romans towards the Barbarians, but also from the Senate towards the 2 Roman families for loosing territorium and leaving the empire broken in peaces. In the meantime part of the Barbarians, tucked away in the deep dark forrest have been training like no normal human could, creating the most brutal warriors to ever roam the face of the planet .... (your neighbour ...)
Now its the time, the time for you to prove that lowsy senate that you are more than a true Roman, you will show it to them by taking the world and by that taking Rome ...


G

[Red Spot]

I've changed the map, though its still relativly similair to the one above, the main difference is that the center is now an illand ..

The setting will be the Senate in the center, on an iland, with naval invasions disabled, wich creates a similair effect as it has as super-faction, but now with expanding characteristics.
You as the 2nd Roman will have 2-ish legions and a bunch of peasants/town-guards boarded onto fleets near this center iland with as story that you've only just been outlawed on now must run for your life (at war with the Senate and enemy fleet nearby!!)

Imo a nice variation to the known hording-start, something that the AI cant handle in a starting-positions but as I make this faction to be player by the player its a nice oppertunity to use features like this ...

(possibly a randomised spawning of a spy to unhide a decent beach to disembark onto, and perhaps some slave-troops so every start will be slightly different, though big enough in this position to make sizeble impacts on the campaign ...)


what an evening of only brainstorming and no modding or learning stuff can do ... :tongue2:


G

[Dol Guldur]

I did not think you could start with armies on boats?

[Red Spot]

you can, not really sure about the exact details anymore, except for that I recall that it does screw up the AI if used for an AI faction, but iirc you could use it for a player-only faction ..
(if I'm mistaken its not the biggest issue, I'll just put you on the coast with some Senatorial legions in your back ...)

I'll see if I can get BI's campaign to run atm and test it out right away ..

edit;
the ugly aproach;
https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8300/nieuwbitmapafbeeldinghi8.th.jpg (https://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nieuwbitmapafbeeldinghi8.jpg)

the smooth aproach, or the ugly aproach but after moving the fleet a tile;
https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/269/kopievannieuwbitmapafbemu5.th.jpg (https://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kopievannieuwbitmapafbemu5.jpg)

abandon ships!!! :);
https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9279/kopie2vannieuwbitmapafbfh2.th.jpg (https://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kopie2vannieuwbitmapafbfh2.jpg)

though .... :( ;
https://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6573/nieuwbitmapafbeelding2eb2.th.jpg (https://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nieuwbitmapafbeelding2eb2.jpg)
good advise to not use show_err ...

descr_strat;

character Vithimer, named character, heir, age 33, , x 162, y 88
traits FactionHeir 1, GoodCommander 3, Pagan 1
ancillaries veteran_warrior, scout
army
unit goth warlords exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit goth raiders exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit gothic spearmen exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

character Gundemar, admiral, age 36, , x 162, y 88

army
unit naval boats exp 2 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit naval boats exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
dont swap the fleet for the army, first army than fleet, else you get that the general .. er .. is standing on deck ...


G

[Aradan]

I think you'd be better off with the troops already landed. And perthaps have the senatorial armies so close to the player's army that the only way to get out is take just the horsemen (perhaps only mounted units in the startinga rmy can be the general's bodyguard?) and flee. Or fight a very very tough battle :) Just an idea for an interesting start.

[Red Spot]

I like the "need to fight to get to freedom .." though I guess I'd set you up on the center-iland with some praetorian legions in your back, fleets at the coast and most men near but a few straglers ...

you let them die and save your last legions for fights that will be taking place when you try to claim new lands ...
you desperatly lash out to them hoping to keep casualties so minimal that the gain of men saved is greater than the loss to get the straglers on board ..
you stay and try to keep the fight on the iland, by taking 1 of the Senate's cities ...

bezesus!! you write 2 lines of text and I'm rethinking the start of my mod .... :2thumbsup: :wink:


Now first of to making a new map ..... boy do I hate map-making .... :freak:



G

[Red Spot]

this is what I'll be using in EarthSculptor;
https://img247.imageshack.us/img247/949/xxxmapheightsvr5.th.jpg (https://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxmapheightsvr5.jpg)

though I'm wondering if the number of small ilands in going to cause any problems**, even if they are connecting is such way they create the so called land-bridges .... Mak. ?? ;)

**; enlight of;

map_regions.tga
Number of provinces: Min ?, max 200. Experimentation.
Number of landmasses: Min ?, max 20. JeromeGrasdyke. Effects for extras unknown (not CTD).
taken from;Hard-Coded Limits (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=682780&postcount=1)

ps;who can spot ET ?!? :D

edit;
https://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1396/xxxlayoutsoo7.th.jpg (https://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxlayoutsoo7.jpg)


G

[Ossie The Great]

This is a good idea for a mod as ( like dol guldur said) it is giving a new look on modding. But anyway i will be kepping a close eye on this mod.

[Makanyane]

though I'm wondering if the number of small ilands in going to cause any problems**, even if they are connecting is such way they create the so called land-bridges .... Mak. ?? ;)



sorry hadn't spotted that question before, small islands without cities shouldn't do any harm, and I think so long as you have land bridges between islands then AI shouldn't have any problems at all getting around.

BI and possibly Alex .exe seem better if you want naval invasions to happen as well, which are you using?


To see how its going get some factions on it quickly with basic troop building capabilities and auto-run it - a lot!

[Red Spot]

sorry hadn't spotted that question before, small islands without cities shouldn't do any harm, and I think so long as you have land bridges between islands then AI shouldn't have any problems at all getting around.

BI and possibly Alex .exe seem better if you want naval invasions to happen as well, which are you using?


To see how its going get some factions on it quickly with basic troop building capabilities and auto-run it - a lot!


Thanks for the info Mak. .. my only worry where basicly those ilands ..
My previous/current map more or less revolvs around "what can I do with AI path-finding" .. or it became so after my struggle to get it to run ...
Never tested a map with small ilands .. correction .. so many ilands that it exceeds the 20 landmasses/individual pieces of land ..

I'm using BI (Alex is one I skipped...), do know about naval-invasions wich some factions will use, but it isnt decent enough to allow real ilands .. imo ..
I found that the AI tended to "build 2 armies, but only 1 fleet" and so left 1/2 its army stranded on its iland ... why I later on started testing land-bridges and the impact of them on path-finding ... (use them!! *hint*)

so far I have the impression that;
-whenever there is solid land the AI tends to "walk"
-without any path you get the "2 armies, 1 fleet" behaviour**
-with a land-bridge they tend to still like naval-invasions but do send (stranded) armies by land (besides that it can save regions as you could get away with less sea-regions)

**they tend to leave the first fleet where they dropped the first army and never send it back to pick up a second army, nor build a second fleet to transport the second army, usually resulting in a sizable force standing on the beach till .....

edit;
possibly overdone things a bit now .. :saint: ;
https://img174.imageshack.us/img174/430/xxxmapheightsxz7.th.jpg (https://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxmapheightsxz7.jpg)


G

[Aradan]

lol, yeah probably overdid it...


If you manage to find a trick to get the AI to perform invasions with more than 1 fleet, pleaqse do share. The best we have got now is naval invasion with 3-15 units (depending on how well the faction does in campaign) and support by land (meaning the AI sends 1-2 more stacks wlaking, to aid the one going by sea).

Oh, and there's also the problem of the AI getting stuck on the shore, opposite to where a settlement is, because it "thinks" it can get to it walking (but of course it can't)...

[Red Spot]

If you manage to find a trick to get the AI to perform invasions with more than 1 fleet, pleaqse do share. The best we have got now is naval invasion with 3-15 units (depending on how well the faction does in campaign) and support by land (meaning the AI sends 1-2 more stacks wlaking, to aid the one going by sea).

If I would know that I wouldnt be using land-bridges ;)


anyway, EarthSculptor day 1;
https://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7761/xxxmapheightszd2.th.jpg (https://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxmapheightszd2.jpg)

Rome is going to be a bit hard to get to ... perhaps a bit too hard .. but I like it .. :smiley:

edit;
EarthSculptor Session 2;
https://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9358/xxxxxxxsl7.th.jpg (https://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xxxxxxxsl7.jpg)


G

[Red Spot]

just a little "fyi" ...

I'm taking a minor break from modding Rome, cause of a combination of say current lack in motivation and the fact that in the last year I've not only learned a lot about this game but most noticably also learned a lot about Photoshop and 3D-Max and something is .. er .. occupying my thoughts ...

Wich is Battlezone II (http://www.planetbattlezone.com/), I've loved the game since release and a combination of new skills and a dying community and an awesome public-beta (by one of the original developers, among others ... for a ~9 year old game .. :2thumbsup: ) makes me want to "continue" work on that game ... for the moment ...


I will be coming back, beter said I wont leave this forum, its just that it may explain why I wont make any progress or do any research in Rome/BI atm ...



G

[Aradan]

Good luck with your new interest! :)

[Makanyane]

have fun but don't desert us! :thumbsup: