Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded] [Archive] - Page 13

ajaxfetish

03-04-2008, 23:12

Mafia status as of N10:

--Stracci. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy (dead), Made: Andres (dead), NorthNovas (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI (dead), associated wise guys or mades: Tran (dead), Gibson. Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (wise guy, N5), Louis VI (presumed wise guy, N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3), Proletariat (N4), Craterus (N6), Sasaki (N7), Brave Sir Robin (N7).

--Corleone. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead). Have called for a mafia truce through Tiberius and TosaInu.

--Tataglia. Don: Unknown, Luca: Makanyane (according to CR), Made: Unknown. Have responded to the Corleones' call for truce, according to TosaInu's second relayed communication.

--Barzini. (Rose group according to Louis), associated wise guy: Ichigo (according to Louis)

--Cunnio.

Religious Weather Balloon group. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (wise guy, N4), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?). This family made an explosive entrance on night 3, but seems to have been a one-night wonder.

Rose group (Barzinis according to Louis, Tataglia if CR's results on Makanyane are correct). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: Rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Chimpyang (townie, N5, black rose), Lt. Pinard (townie, N6), Haudegen (N9), LittleGrizzly (N10), attempted hit on CR (N6, white rose), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4).

Italian Destiny group. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (townie, N5), ajaxfetish (townie, N6), Husar (townie, N7), Sarathos (mafia wise guy, N8), Cowhead418 (N10).

Omanes suspected Sigurd to be the don of the Barzinis, JimBob asserted he was the don of the Corleones. Sigurd claimed to be the King of Hearts hitman. Sigurd's post-mortem has shown he was indeed a mafia don, but has not established his family.

----------------------------------------------------

Musings:

Lone killers with calling cards or consistent modi operandi
--.577 Webley. A rogue killer of unknown motivation. A single individual using the same weapon shot Kommodus (luca, N4), Woad&Fangs (wise guy, N5), and Makanyane (luca, N8). Based on the type of victims, this killer may be protown.
--King of Hearts. Another lone killer is operating, using knives and leaving King of Hearts playing cards. He participated in killing Woad & Fangs (wise guy, N5) and Louis VI (presumed wise guy, N6), and attempted a kill on TinCow (N7). Sigurd falsely claimed to have this role.
--Ashanderei. Yet another solo attacker, but without any successful kills as yet. Attempted hits on Proletariat (N9) and Elite Ferret (N10). The N9 attempt sounded like another attacker was expected but didn't show. Since Sigurd turned out not to be the King of Hearts killer, it is possible that this is the same individual, but the method is sufficiently different (both blades, but the one small and the other huge) that this seems unlikely.

--Society for Creative Anachronism. Successful hits on FactionHeir (made, N6), Northnovas (made, N7), Tran (mafia wise guy, N8), and Ichigo (N10). Failed hit on Tran (N5) due to a late pm, and another failed one on Tran (N7) for unclear reasons, apparently luck, failed hit on Ichigo (N9), due to a late or absent pm from CA.

As Louis has mentioned, CR could very well have been either the FBI detective or a don. Makanyane's post-mortem established that she was indeed a luca, but did not specify her family. The evidence seems to weigh in favor of CR indeed being the FBI detective, but not quite beyond any reasonable doubt.

Based on post-mortem results, N8 looks like it was a good one for the town. 4 mafia vs. 1 townie, and EMFM could be just about anything.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Detective results:

Cowhead418 (via TinCow, N5 & N6 also via a further anonymous intermediary), claimed as regular detective

N1: pevergreen = criminal (lynched D2, wise guy, accurate)
N1: The Stranger = innocent (murdered N3, townie, accurate)
N2: Glenn = innocent (murdered N3, crusader?, probably accurate)
N2: Crazed Rabbit = innocent (lynched D10, results pending)
N3: charge = criminal (lynched D11, results pending)
N3: ajaxfetish = innocent (murdered N6, townie, accurate)
N4: Proletariat = innocent (still alive)
N4: Twilightblade = criminal (still alive)
N5: Rhythmic = innocent (murdered N5, townie, accurate)
N5: Myrddraal = innocent (still alive)
N6: norwegian nerd = innocent (still alive)
N6: FactionHeir = criminal (murdered N6, made, accurate)

CR, claimed as FBI detective

N1: Andres = guilty (lynched D5, made, murdered Drisos N1, accurate)
N1: Proletariat = innocent (still alive)
N2: GeneralHankerchief = criminal, wise guy (murdered N4, wise guy, accurate)
N2: Moros = criminal (murdered N4, wise guy or shadow, accurate)
N3: Twilightblade = criminal (still alive)
N3: Makanyane = guilty (murdered N8, luca, accuracy depends on N3 victims)
N4: FactionHeir = guilty (murdered N6, made, accuracy depends on N4 victims)
N4: Hiji = guilty (lynched D9, results pending)
N5: Joe Monks = criminal (still alive)
N5: Makanyane = guilty N5, Tataglia Luca from outset of game. (murdered N8, luca, accuracy depends on N5 victims)
N6: LittleGrizzly = innocent (murdered N10, results pending)
N6: norwegian nerd = innocent (still alive)
N7: Roadkill = innocent (WoGged N9, results pending)
N7: Warluster = criminal (still alive)
N8: Myrddraal = innocent (still alive)
N8: Ironside = innocent (still alive)

Victims N3, N4, and N5
N3: taka (I think that was TinCow's old wise guy group (with GH, gibsong, and ?NorthNovas? Didn't he claim that?), Beefy (balloon mafia), Zorg (rose mafia), Pannonian (Straccis), the Stranger (balloon mafia), Glenn (balloon mafia).
N4: Kommodus (.577 Webley), Moros (rose mafia), Xiahou (no calling card).
N5: Kamikhaan (Italian destiny mafia), Chimpyang (rose mafia), Motep (Straccis), Rhythmic (no calling card), Woad & Fangs (King of Hearts hitman).

For the guilty results on Makanyane to be accurate, she must (1) have been part of the rose mafia, (2) have been in the balloon mafia but also helped the ?vigilante group? that killed Rhythmic, or (3) characters shown guilty by a detective result continue to be shown guilty regardless of future activity--this seems unlikely but seems not to be explicitly denied in Seamus' rules.
For the guilty results on FactionHeir to be accurate, he must (1) have been part of the rose mafia, or (2) have been part of the ?vigilante group? that killed Xiahou.

Summary of the living, assuming Cowhead's and CR's investigations are accurate:

Innocent (pro-town or don): Proletariat (both), Myrddraal (both), norwegian nerd (both), Ironside (CR only)
Criminal (wise guy or mafia): Twilightblade (both), Joe Monks (CR only), Warluster (CR only)

----------------------------------------------------------------

Post-mortem results:

19 pro-town
Townie: Lord Winter, Beefy, taka, the Stranger, FahadI, killfr3nzy, Sapi, Xiahou, Rhythmic, molonthegreat, Chimpyang, Kamikhaan, ajaxfetish, Lt. Pinard, Husar, JohnHughThom
Detective: Drisos
Crusader?: Glenn, Rob the Celt

13 neutral
Wise Guy: Pevergreen, Hannibal, Pannonian, Zorg, GH, x-Danger, Moros (though Moros may be an unaffiliated mafia member), Motep, WarmasterHorus, Woad&Fangs, Xdeathfire, LouisVI (though Seamus write-up was not specific on his starting role), EMFM (I'm not sure where exactly to put him, so he goes neutral for now)

11 mafia
Affiliated Wise Guy: Tran (Stracci), Sarathos (family unknown)
Made: Tiberius (Corleone), Andres (Stracci), FactionHeir (family unknown), NorthNovas (Stracci)
Luca: Kommodus (family unknown), Dutch Guy (Stracci), Makanyane (family unknown but claimed by CR to be Tataglia)
Don: Omanes (Stracchi), Sigurd (family unknown)

Ajax

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 09:16

Well, at least someone had the opportunity to use the sword!

Just for brief clarification on a raised query;

No, I can vouch for certainty that Dons are not the only role to receive Luck protection.

How did I survive Night 2?

----

And for further clarification;

I did not wonder why we needed a more active director, Kukky, I wondered why we needed Proletariat as Director.

May the town burn.

Sigurd

03-05-2008, 10:24

No, I can vouch for certainty that Dons are not the only role to receive Luck protection.

I guess the town are running out of ways to detect the mafia leaders...:sneaky:

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 12:05

Well, they could make a start by not electing them as Director.

Sigurd

03-05-2008, 12:28

Well, they could make a start by not electing them as Director.
Why do you think Prole is a mafia Don?

Drisos

03-05-2008, 12:44

I think Glenn isn't allowed to post an answer. (if he even has one)

Sigurd

03-05-2008, 12:51

I think Glenn isn't allowed to post an answer. (if he even has one)
For that to be correct he must have some concrete evidence. (i.e unrevealed detective results or pms stating that Prole is a Donna).

If not, he can speculate as any other living player.

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 12:51

For the same reasons I thought Kommodus should not be trusted.

And therefore I may prove it little.

However, I can say it is logical to allow Prollywat to prove her use to the town before she is elected their saviour.

There are more dedicated, "Pro-Township", players alive - and even still I would prefer Jimbob to anyone of them.
Yes.

Yes, he is inactive. But then he is also the only one alive who is truly proven innocent. How can he not be by the finale of this day?
An inactive Director may be useless in a tied lynch, but this is, as the Chief himself wrote; "Endgame", there are no more double lynches.

Which means the Director is a near useless position.

All we are doing is giving someone immortality - who has done nothing but push for the death of proven innocents. (By their post-mortem).

The main argument is over Prollybat's protection - a surgeon.

But Craterus, (I think), raised a very good point in that she could very easily of deceived a surgeon into protecting her.
How?
By the same manner in which she has deceived you all.

And another question has not been answered.
Is there not a law which denotes - that an attacker attempting an assault on a Donna protected by a Luca has a chance of dying?

The main argument in the end for the election of Prollywat was this;

"She was attacked several times. She does not seem Mafia. Let us protect her."

Mafia will beget Mafia. Kommodus seemed not. What has she done for us?

(What will she do for us?)

Andres

03-05-2008, 12:54

For what it's worth: I don't think Proletariat is mafia.

Sigurd

03-05-2008, 13:12

[speaking of Jimbob] Yes, he is inactive. But then he is also the only one alive who is truly proven innocent. How can he not be by the finale of this day?
An inactive Director may be useless in a tied lynch, but this is, as the Chief himself wrote; "Endgame", there are no more double lynches.
Funny you should mention this. As a proven mafia Don, even I am not so sure about the innocence of Jimbob. He has claimed to be in allegiance with you Glenn. You have claimed some sort of Crusader/Templar role. The only proof we have is a post mortem investigation on you hinting to a secret society. Other than that we have a chat log provided by pevergreen in which someone (a mafia if I am not mistaken) claims Jimbob is innocent.
Hardly conclusive at all.
It is funny that this is considered endgame with 26 players alive. In the old days, 26 players were a large game in the outset.

The main argument is over Prollybat's protection - a surgeon.
Hey Prole why don't you just reveal who you really are? The mafia already knows. :yes:
Why hide? I bet you could give the town a large portion of unrevealed data.

And another question has not been answered.
Is there not a law which denotes - that an attacker attempting an assault on a Donna protected by a Luca has a chance of dying?
I will answer it for you because I know... oh wait it is a part of my unrevealed Don pm. Sorry :sneaky:

Andres

03-05-2008, 13:21

A secret society of 3?

Hmmm... : mafia families also started with 3: Don, Luca, Made.

Why are we all assuming that Jimbob is innocent?

Louis VI the Fat

03-05-2008, 15:31

:wall: :wall: :wall:

What a complete and utter spectacle, this last page. Town (well, crusader) playing the mafia in their hands, and the mafia seizing the opportunity to deceive the town.

Hey Prole why don't you just reveal who you really are? The mafia already knows. :yes: You probably do know. Everybody knows why Prole must be director until the end of the game. Save for Glein. And maybe the odd mafiosi or two as well, so there will be no reveal, no matter how much Eglnn plus the mafia are pushing for it.

For the same reasons I thought Kommodus should not be trusted.

Hey Glinn, here you go, your posts about Kommodus. Kommo, whom you 'have never trusted' and whom you are now beating your chest about. I will not mention that you have fingered just about fifty people so far in this game and can hence yell 'told you so!' about everyone. I will only say that you have never placed a single vote on Kommodus, and had this to say about him in the thread:

Still also however, there is no evidence of Kommodus' guilt
I hope this confirms my investigation of CR, but it doesn't do anything for my suspicion of him.
I would like Kommodus and his Holmes to tell me what the opinion of CR is.

I'm not trying to take anyone's attention away from anyone-

But I am trying to broaden the tunnelvision of the voters here!!

Kommodus - speak up! You are the only one who agrees with me!
Also, Proletariat, who simply wants GH dead in almost every post without reason.
Then there is Kagemusha, who obviously thinks my suspicion of him dangerous enough to keep mentioning me.

Highly recommended awards go to, FactionHeir and CrazedRabbit for explicitly showing the same behaviour as Rythmic, who has been detected as suspicious by Holmes.

But, perhaps this last piece of information is incorrect.
Is Kommodus always this inactive?

PROLETARIAT

Is in no way providing an explanation for her constant, inpenetrable protection!
She is not even showing surprise at her brilliant luck!

Now, we KNOW that for the first few rounds she was constantly trying to lynch people who are now confirmed innocents.

GeneralHankerchief being one of them.

I don't like accusing someone of being a Don simply because they had only one protector - but if anyone were to be a don, it would be PROLETARIAT
Prole's early vote record: Pevergreen, GH, GH, Andres, Tran, Dutch_Guy. What innocents? ~:confused:

Let me wager a guess. Here's what happened: Prole was the first to finger GH. From day one right up until even until two days after Seamus write-up confirmed GH as scum, Nnelg thought that GH was innocent. In Gennl's mind this meant: 'GH -innocent, ergo, Prole - Guilty'. Somehow, Nelgn has never been able to let this go.

May the town burn.Yes, well, the town still plans on winning this game. So would you mind not cuddling up with dead mafiosi, or PMíng them, or revealing town stuff to them?

Andres

03-05-2008, 15:37

Now now now, Luis XXX the Hot, don't be so harsh on your team mate.

I can tell you that Glen did not, I repeat, did not, reveal any valuable townie information through pm.

Unless you consider the "secret society" of "crusaders" to be pro-town that is.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 15:39

They've said a couple times that they have multiple win conditions.

Andres

03-05-2008, 15:41

They've said a couple times that they have multiple win conditions.

How about your win conditions, Mister "I'm in contact with a Made" :inquisitive:

GeneralHankerchief

03-05-2008, 15:41

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Classic, Louis. :laugh4:

Ferret

03-05-2008, 18:01

just want to say thanks to Ajaxfetish, his posts are keeping me up to date with this game, thanks dude.

Seamus Fermanagh

03-05-2008, 19:59

This is main thread post #3045

"We are beasts
Out of the light, into the dark
Hatred grows inside of me
Like a torch it is burning high
Step into my mind….
My true face shows disharmony
I am my own reality…
Open your eyes and look"
-- Teatre

Summary, Night Eleven

Warluster had enjoyed a quiet dinner at his favorite café. Though on the committee, he had seldom voted and had only rarely spoken up with his opinion. He had been present, but had chosen not to stand out. His low profile would not be enough protection.

He was walking for his car when he saw the shrouded figures detach themselves from the shadows between and in front of the buildings across the street. Warluster raced for his car – a car he’d had retrofitted into a “Fatlington Special” with armor and bullet resistant glass. If he could get inside, he’d stand a chance and might even be able to use the car for a counterattack. He reached the door and pulled on the handle. It didn’t budge. Someone had thoughtfully spot-welded the door shut.

<<Click. Click. Click. Click. Click.>>

Warluster heard the bolts of the gunmens’ weapons click back as they readied to fire. He spun himself, going for a handgun, but was much too late. He cleared his pistol from its holster, but didn’t even get it up and level before the first shells from the sustained bursts by all 5 Tommy guns slammed into him. He took more than 30 hits on his body armor along with a dozen grazes and hits in the arms and legs, slamming back into the door of the car.

Warluster was built tough. Despite the wounds, he stayed focused and brought his gun up, firing a quick double tap just before all five Tommy gunners let loose with a second burst. With wounds and shock hampering his aim, both of Warluster’s shots missed…his attackers. Draco Leman, sitting in a café on the opposite side of the street took both slugs square in the face, depositing his brains across half a dozen other café patrons. Despite all of his injuries, Warluster had still managed a tight shot group.

Warluster died more or less the same way. His attackers, by some unspoken but fully shared agreement, let their second bursts drift high. Most of the shots still hit Warlusters arms or body armor, but 3 slammed into his head bringing the tough man down.

Seconds later, a 6th shrouded gunmen jogged up.

“When’s the hit?”

His partners looked at him, then looked back at Warluster’s body.

“Oh, a bit late. Sorry.”

With the first five shaking their heads, all of them made their way back under the cloak of darkness.

Myrddraal was proving a source of vexation to the two men currently staring at him through the crosshairs of their 10X-scoped Garands. There was simply no way to get a good bead on him. He didn’t move at a consistent pace, he would seemingly effortlessly put a lamppost or step railing or group of tourists between himself and one of the shooters. His movements were unpredictable and he didn’t leave any real opening for an attack.

Then another figure walked out of an alley and confronted Myrddraal. This man was masked and clad in a jet black, high-collared frock coat bearing a silver sword pin on one collar point and a gold and red dragon on the other. He held a five-foot black wooden staff with a silvery-sharp 15” blade on one end. Myrddraal stopped and the masked figure spoke.

“Shall we dance, Eyeless?”

Myrddraal leapt back two steps as his attacker whirled the Ashenderi through a deadly arc. Despite his swift reactions, the tip of the blade had still slashed a shallow rent across the face of his thick body armor. Myrddraal slipped sideways and went for his gun as his attacker moved forward with a thrusting attack. He side-slipped that attack and hit his attacker with a pair of shots from the .38 he carried, driving him back but failing to knock him down Apparently the coat was not just for looks..

“You’ll need to do better then that, half-man!”

The bladesman moved forward with a rapid series of attacks, pressing Myrddraal and forcing him to block at least two strikes by using the revolver as a shield – it would be useless thereafter as anything else.

Coming to Myrddraal’s aid, Caeser the III darted out from the crowd of onlookers gathered at the windows and doorway of the store in front of which the two men were “dancing” and attempted to tackle the bladesman. Caeser was fast, but not quite fast enough. Just as he reached the bladesman, the ashenderi had been spun and brought back in a rapid back-spike. The blade punched through Caeser’s ribs, transfixing him sideways through the chest. Myrddraal dropped his useless gun and pulled his backup piece from a leg-holder.

Eyes wide with shock, the dying Caeser the III grabbed the bladesman’s mask and then collapsed, unmasking Myrddraal’s attacker and wrenching the ashenderi from his grip. Myrddraal stopped in surprise.

“Twilightblade?”

Whatever ‘blade's answer would have been, Myrddraal never heard it. The shock of seeing Twilightblade as his attacker had caused him to pause in place for the first time all night. Both shots struck above his left ear within an inch of each other and traveling at different deadly angles. The right side of his skull blew outward like a shattered melon, spraying the onlookers in the store and bringing the whole dark affair to a shocked conclusion. Myrddraal was dead before he hit the pavement.

In the stunned silence following, ‘blade bent down and, with some effort, retrieved his weapon. He was gone into the night before the stunned onlookers could gather themselves to move. Moments later, one of the shooters used the milling crowd surrounding the macabre scene as cover and dropped a piece of parchment bearing a message in Gothic script: “il destino e inesorabile.”

Few of the witnesses gave a consistent version of events to the investigators and none knew where the parchment had come from. Only one component was consistent across all of their stories. One member of the Committee of Vigilance could look forward to a lot of questions the next day.

Morning Meeting, Day Twelve

“…well, as odd as it sounds, that’s what our witnesses report,” said Commissioner Fermanagh.

“Our longer term investigations have produced the following results. Roadkill and Alexander the Pretty Good were honest townies with no apparent crime connections. Big King Sanctaphrax and Haudegen were both WiseGuys, but neither seemed to have any links whatsoever to the mafia. In fact, that may have been why Huadegen was killed. We’re unable to figure out what was going on with Hiji. He was, by all accounts, a very straight-laced citizen with no criminal record or leanings whatsoever. His apartment was barren, save for a cot, a stool in the kitchen, and a large wooden cross. His storage closet outside contained a pair of shears, 50 yards of mid-gauge wire on a spool and about 2000 feet of nylon cord, also on a spool. Makes no sense to us.”

Fermanagh exited the large meeting room with its bloodstained floor. Proletariat went over the procedures again before adjourning the meeting.

OOC

1. Lynch Voting begins for Day 12. This phase will conclude at 1600 EST on 6 March 2008 (2100 GMT).

2. Current List of Players:

Still Alive: (22) Brave Sir Robin, Caius, CountArach, Craterus, Elite Ferret, gibsonsg91921, Ironside, JimBob, Joe Monks, Jubal_Barca, Kagemusha, KukriKhan, Leet Erikson, norwegian nerd, Proletariat, Sasaki Kojiro, scottishranger, shlin28, TinCow, TruePraetorian, Twilightblade, Xehh II.

Attacked: (33) Andres (N2, N3), Beefy187 (N1), Brave Sir Robin (N7), Caius (N3), Charge (N9), Craterus (N6), Crazed Rabbit (N6), Cowhead418 (N2), Elite Ferret (N10), Evil_Maniac from Mars (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N2, N3), Glenn (N1, N2), Ichigo (N9), Kagemusha (N6), Proletariat (N4, N4, N5, N6, N7, N8, N9), Sasaki Kojiro (N5, N7), taka (N2), Tran (N5, N7, N8), TinCow (N7), Twilightblade (N4, N5), Xdeathfire (N1)

Murdered: (32) Drisos (N1), Lord Winter (N2), Beefy187 (N3), Glenn (N3), Pannonian (N3), taka (N3), The Stranger (N3), Zorg (N3), GeneralHankerchief (N4), Kommodus (N4), Moros (N4), Xiahou (N4), Chimpyang (N5), Kamikhaan (N5), Motep (N5), Rythmic, (N5), woad&fangs (N5), ajaxfetish (N6), FactionHeir (N6), Lt. Pinard (N6), Louis VI the Fat (N6), Husar (N7), NorthNovas (N7), Makanyane (N8), Sarathos (N8), Tran (N8), Haudegen (N9), Cowhead418 (N10), Ichigo (N10), LittleGrizzly (N10), Myrddraal (N11), Warluster (N11).

Killed During an Attack: (1) Evil_Maniac from Mars (N8).

Lynched: (11) pevergreen (D2), Hannibalbarca (D3), Tiberius of the Drake (D3), Omanes Alexandrapolites (D4), Andres (D5), Xdeathfire (D6), Dutch_guy (D7), Sigurd Fafnesbane (D8), Hiji (D9), Crazed Rabbit (D10), Charge (D11)

Removed from Play: (13) Fahad I (D4), Killfr3nzy (D4), x-dANGEr (D4), Sapi (N4), Warmaster Horus (N5), Rob_the_Celt (N5), molonthegreat (N5), johnhughthom (D8), Alexander the Pretty Good (N9), Big King Sanctaphrax (N9), Roadkill (N9), Caeser the III (N11), Draco Leman (N11)

TinCow

03-05-2008, 22:05

Sasaki Kojiro – Your Friendly Neighborhood Don
An In-Depth Look at the Man, the Myth, the Legend

Sasaki has made much of helping the town over the course of the game, but in reality his story has more holes in it than his pal Ichigo’s corpse. Let’s take a closer look at this fortunate son of Fatlington.

First, Sasaki has been investigated by a 100% confirmed townie detective. He was found innocent, so no wiseguy, Made, or Luca for him. Of course, no one knows Sasaki’s role better than the man himself. I asked him earlier, and this is what he said:

Now, you should know I'm innocent because I appeared during the kagemusha protection as the sole protector, which dons can't do.

Ah, so Sasaki is a Doctor! Yet, Sasaki certainly isn’t acting in a very doctor-like manner.

Protection groups aren't that important anymore. I think we can pull two vig hits. How about you, CA, and haud get one target and me, XXX, XXX, XXX,XXX for the other. So even if one doesn't send the hit will go through.

You guys hit ichigo we hit charge?

Sasaki
(emphasis added)

Protection groups aren’t important? He claims to be a Doctor! His entire role is designed to keep townies alive! In fact, Sasaki’s so eager to abandon protection groups that he has claimed to have been personally participating in vigilante groups, specifically Charge on N9, Ichigo on N10, and Warluster on N11. More on those hits later, though. Instead, let’s take a closer look at this claimed role of his. Let’s start right back at the beginning, with Sasaki’s actions on N1:

Hi there, pevergreen has assigned us a protection group. However, I don't trust pevergreen at all and worry that he is trying to arrange protection for his mafia buddies. Pannonian seems innocent to me, do you have any objections to protecting him?

Sasaki

So, Sasaki is a Doctor, yet he chooses to join a protection group on the first night, instead of protecting by himself? Why would a doctor do that? However, we need not even bother attempting to figure that conundrum out, because there is conclusive proof that Sasaki was not a Doctor on N1. For lack of any reason to trust anyone, I simply submitted the orders pevergreen gave me (protect Beefy187), instead of those Sasaki gave me.

Tonight I will protect Beefy187 along with Lord Winter, Sasaki Kojiro, and Haudegen.

However, the results I was sent by Seamus were about Pannonian. Clearly, the rest of the group had gone with Sasaki’s suggestion and protected Pannonian, rather than Beefy187:

Protect Pannonian = inconclusive

Note: orders were not parallel for all and the effort would have failed had he been attacked.

Pay particular attention to the “Note” Seamus added. He specifically stated that the protection would have failed if Pannonian had been attacked. At the time, I assumed this was because there was confusion about whether our group was protecting Beefy187 or Pannonian. However, even if this was true, if Sasaki was a Doctor the protection should have succeeded. The fact that the protection would have failed proves beyond a doubt that Sasaki did not start the game as a Doctor.

So, that means the only way he could have become a doctor was if he started as a townie, participated in 2 successful protection attempts, and his fellow protectors selected him as the choice for Doctor promotion. There is one tiny little problem with this: there has only been one successful “townie” protection during the entire game, namely the protection of Proletariat on N5. Even giving Sasaki the benefit of the doubt, and assuming he was present there, there is no way he could have gotten a promotion to Doctor, because there was never a second successful townie protection. Therefore, Sasaki cannot be a Doctor and he is lying when he says he is.

While that by itself is certainly sufficient information to lynch anyone, I am only getting warmed up. Let’s turn to some more interesting occurrences.

I present to you a list of murder victims:

Chimpyang (N5)
ajaxfetish (N6)
Lt. Pinard (N6)
Husar (N7)
Sarathos (N8)
Haudegen (N9)
Cowhead418 (N10)
LittleGrizzly (N10)

What do all these people have in common? Why, they were all working with the townie vigilante and protection groups, or aiding the town in some other manner. All of them! Every last one! They were also all killed by only two families, the Roses and the Italian Destiny. It seems remarkably coincidental that these two families could consistently hit people working with the town every single night for 5 consecutive nights, without ever selecting a person outside of the townie groups. Too coincidental actually. Friar William of Ockham would insist that such a coincidence could mean only one thing: that someone inside the townie network has been feeding the identities of the town participants to the mafia.

“But TinCow!” I hear you cry, “surely many people knew that those victims were working with the town. How can you be certain it was Sasaki?” An excellent point, my fellow Fatlingtonians! The answer is quite simple, really. The answer is Cowhead418. You see, as I revealed after his death, Cowhead418 was a detective; a devoted servant of the town, sworn to root out evil and injustice. His identity was known ONLY to JimBob, Crazed Rabbit, and myself. Well, not quite, you see.

I am, what some of you might call, a Mafia n00b. I have never engaged in this ‘game’ before, and have thus made a few errors that more experienced players would not have. One of those errors occurred during my desperate attempts to save Crazed Rabbit from the lynch on D10. As part of these efforts, I contacted Sasaki directly by PM and gave him further evidence about Crazed Rabbit’s actions in an attempt to convince him to halt his attack on our wonderful FBI Detective. While doing this, I forwarded a PM to Sasaki from JimBob that included a list of all of our detective results, because Sasaki was interested in knowing the precise date and time that we started receiving them from Crazed Rabbit. When I did this, I put XXXXXX in the place of all ‘unrevealed’ detective names. Or so I thought.

It turns out, I made a n00b error, and missed a reference to Cowhead418 that was elsewhere in the PM. His name was in plain sight for Sasaki to see. Guess what happened on N10? That’s right, Cowhead418 was murdered by the Italian Destiny family. The night immediately after Sasaki got a hold of Cowhead418’s identity.

Now, let’s get right back to those hits I was talking about earlier. Specifically, the N9 hit and N10 hits on Ichigo. If you read the write-up of the N10 hit carefully, you will notice and exceedingly unusual part of Ichigo’s death:

Inside was a banner with a short message: “Sorry, buddy.” Nobody could explain this.

The meaning of this is plain to see. Someone on this hit team was a friend of Ichigo and regretted his death! Who could this be? Perhaps there is a clue in the nature of the message itself. The note was written on a “banner.” Who else uses banners, regularly? That’s right, the Italian Destiny family, who have consistently killed people working with the townies for many nights now. And who is friends with Ichigo? Could that answer be found in the victim’s very own, self-given forum title? If you are not aware, it reads, simply: “Vote:Sasaki” Good advice, perhaps.

Yet, more protests come from the back of the room. “But TinCow, haven’t you said that Sasaki organized the hits for N9? Why would he hit his own friend?” Ah, but that’s not entirely true. Sasaki picked the make-up of the groups for N9, but he did not pick the targets. I picked the targets, and given the heavy evidence against Ichigo at the time, disagreeing with a hit on him would be been a silly move for a smart Don like Sasaki. So, instead of trying to stop Ichigo from being hit, he suggested a group arrangement that he knew would help him, as you saw from the PM quoted above. The people in the Ichigo hit were myself, Haudegen, and CountArach. As we all know, that hit went belly-up. Only two people showed up, and one of the participants, Haudegen, was murdered by the Rose mafia.

So, what could have caused it to fail? Perhaps because one of the members was working with Sasaki, perhaps? Clearly it was not me, because I am trying to get him lynched. Do any of you honestly believe that it was Haudegen, a person who had successfully participated in the vigilante kills on Factionheir (N6), Northnovas (N7), and Tran (N8)? No, it could only be CountArach. Yet more protests from the back of the room. “But TinCow, didn’t you just say that Ichigo had a special ability that could have stopped people from showing up to the hit?” Indeed he did, my good man. But as you will notice if you read back over this thread, the results I got when that happened included a lengthy text description about failing to show up and getting a severe headache, which my sources tell me is a side effect of this ability being used. Yet neither CountArach, Haudegen, nor myself got any such text in our results from Seamus. So, the ability cannot have been used. If there is further doubt about CountArach’s story, I need only tell you that he was found guilty by a detective who will remain anonymous on N10. When asked about it, this was his response:

Kill Ichigo = Failure

Now tell me, what is it you think?

Ichigo may have had a special ability that prevented one of us from showing up. I am trying to determine if that was the cause, instead of a betrayal. If you are indeed a pro-town, I will publicly retract my FoS on you. I'm not out to get you, it's just that the situation looks a bit suspicious.

However, a detective also got a guilty result on you on N10. The only times I have worked with you were on N7, N8, and N9. On N7 I know you successfully attacked Tran, but he did not die. On N8, you claim you did nothing because I didn't get the orders out in time. This is a perfectly valid reason and I saw that you did not check that order PM until after the night period was over. On N9, you claim to have been on the failed Ichigo hit.

Since none of these three nights include a successful kill, I have no knowledge of any 'townie' actions you may have done that would result in a guilty result. If you killed someone on N1 through N6, or N10, it would be in your interests to tell me who it was, what night it happened, and who you were working with.
I don't know why I got the Guilty Result on me. I haven't killed anyone on the first 6 nights, or last night. I was offered to join a group with w&f and also one with pevergreen but nothing really came of it. I ended up in a protection group with Makanyane and taka nights 2 and 3, but once there was no PMing going on between us, I thought it was a good idea to keep my distance. I have done that until I contacted JimBob.

So, a guilty result from a confirmed Detective that CountArach cannot explain. Mighty suspicious, if you ask me. Did I mention that CountArach also voted to lynch Crazed Rabbit, along with Sasaki and that “buddy” of the Italian Destiny family, Ichigo? Good to know that the mafia vote in blocs.

“What else do you have there in your bag of tricks, TinCow?” I hear you ask. Well, how about this: as soon as Sasaki was informed that Crazed Rabbit was the FBI Detective, he immediately spearheaded the bandwagon to get Crazed Rabbit lynched! Despite a great deal of evidence that shed doubt on Sasaki’s accusations, he refused to relent or even to delay for one day to see if Crazed Rabbit’s results on Makanyane were accurate. He would not even wait one day for a man who might have been the all-important FBI Detective. Ah, let me pull another PM out here. One moment please, while I locate it. Ah, here it is, fresh from last night:

After tonight and tomorrows lynching who do we have left with guilty results? We can't just vig random people. I don't recall anything against T'blade except the criminal result and his vote switch (which i think actually saved glenn).

Sasaki

Yeah, the pickings are getting pretty slim. The current suspects as I see them:

Warluster - Criminal N7 (by CR)
Twilightblade - Criminal N4 (by Cowhead)
Joe Monks - Criminal N5 (by CR)

None of them have anything on them (that I am aware of) other than the single detective results. Since Warluster will be dead after tonight, that leaves just Twilightblade and Joe Monks on the active suspicion list. At this point, I'm inclined to start putting out public requests for validation of their activities before we move on them. There are a good 10-12 townies operating in various groups with various connections. Surely if either of these guys have been helping the town at some point, someone will be able to corroborate that. We can simply ask for people to come forward to verify their innocence before we lynch/vig kill them.

I would suggest giving them four options: (1) Post it publicly, (2) Send the PM to Prole, (3) Send the PM to Sasaki, (4) Send the PM to TinCow. I doubt there is a townie left alive that hasn't got some measure of trust for one of the three of us at this point. If no one comes forward by one of those four methods, then we can assume that neither Twilightblade nor Joe Monks have been helping the town at all. Combined with their criminal results, this should be enough to warrant their deaths, even if just to be safe.

Once those two are dead, if we have no more detective results to work from, we should probably revert to protection groups and see if the night attacks keep coming.

There were several wise guys last game who never participated in any groups and who didn't join the mafia. It was around 20% I think. IMO any killing of tblade and joe monks should come from any in thread open to everyone discussion. If the town ends up trying to double lynch one of them then we can vigg the other.

Have you checked to see if t'blade/joe monks should have turned up guilty on those nights if they were part of the two remaining mafia families?

It's worth noting that joe monks spoke out in the thread against killing random wise guys.

Sasaki

Sasaki seems very concerned about not accidentally killing Twilightblade and Joe Monks, even though they have unexplained criminal results and have no record of helping the town. That’s mighty generous from a person who was not even willing to wait one day to check on the information regarding the FBI Detective. It should also be noted that he had absolutely no problems in going after Warluster on N11, even though the evidence against him was exactly the same (one criminal result), as against Twilightblade and Joe Monks.

Need we also forget that Sasaki has blatantly admitted to being directly in touch with a Made from the start of the game? What does he have to say about that one?

Re: made that is my source. I'm in a tricky spot as to what I can say. Let's just say my in game character (fatlington resident) doesn't wish this made to die. What I as sasaki want is for him to get found out and lynched. I'm constrained however. Recall seamus mentioning that everyone has red text.

My made knows for sure I am a townie and he sends me the information voluntarily. It is possible that he fakes it--however it is to his advantage to get other mafia lynched.

Red text? A convenient excuse, especially for a man who is lying about his role. Wouldn’t the simplest explanation simply be that the Made was from his own family?

Finally, let us not forget that Sasaki was attacked on N7 by the Stracchi. Fortunately for him, his life was saved by a single individual. Doctor or Luca? As it turns out, Sasaki was informed ahead of time (at my suggestion and via JimBob) that he was going to be attacked. So, Sasaki DID have time to arrange for his own protection beforehand. Yet he did not turn to a townie group to do that, he turned to one individual. Despite all of this evidence, I am sure that Sasaki will claim that it was a Doctor that he knew personally, since how else could he have gotten one to help him on such short notice? Yet, how and when exactly did he locate this Doctor pal of his? Will the kindly fellow please step forward? No? I thought not.

So, I shall sum up this detailed look into this dear friend of Fatlington by quoting the immortal words of the recently deceased Ichigo:

Vote: Sasaki

Never was there a neck more worthy of a noose.

FoS: CountArach
FoS: Twilightblade (As if that is even necessary after N11.)
FoS: Joe Monks
FoS: Kagemusha (If Sasaki wasn’t protecting him, who was?)

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 22:25

Therefore, Sasaki cannot be a Doctor and he is lying when he says he is.

Hi Tincow, I never claimed to be a doctor. My pm to you was this:

Now, you should know I'm innocent because I appeared during the kagemusha protection as the sole protector, which dons can't do.

You took this to mean I was a doctor which I was more than happy to let you do. I figured if I turned up dead it meant you were guilty, and also you started to let me in on what was going on.

As you seem to have forgotten, my plan on the night Kagemusha was attacked was to have a vig group attack a target that was protected by a protection group:

Sasaki:

Two things.

1) You are very late on sending out orders. They were sent 12 hours from the deadline. JimBob and I have been coordinating orders and went sent out our own set almost at the start of the N6 phase. By sending this out, you are simply creating a conflict. I guarantee you that the protection group will fail, and I suspect the vigilante group will to. I suggest you abort them both ASAP.

2) These are very scummy orders. At this point in the game, with this many people who are obviously mafia, what possible reason could you have for picking a 'random' target? Looks like an excuse to me for the vigilante group to succeed, while you back out of the protection group, allowing it to fail and for the target to die. You had best explain yourself.

Protection group: Sasaki, Haudegen,TinCow

Vigilante group: ajaxfetish;TruePraetorian;scottishranger;Brave_Sir_Robin

BOTH groups are going to target Kagemusha (picked randomly).

Sasaki

But as you can see you and haudegen had other plans, fortunately others from the vig group had other plans as well. Two attackers showed up with me as the lone defender. I don't believe don's can protect people in townie groups (Omanes said this a while back) ergo I must be innocent.

Protect Kagemusha = failure

Solo attempts at protection always fail, but you were not killed in the effort.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 22:32

Protection group: Sasaki, Haudegen,TinCow

Vigilante group: ajaxfetish;TruePraetorian;scottishranger;Brave_Sir_Robin

BOTH groups are going to target Kagemusha (picked randomly).

Sasaki
Can do. I'll send it in. Let me know if things don't work on the protection side so I can cancel the action if necessary.

Ajax

Protection group: Sasaki, Haudegen,TinCow

Vigilante group: ajaxfetish;TruePraetorian;scottishranger;Brave_Sir_Robin

BOTH groups are going to target Kagemusha (picked randomly).

Sasaki

What about Tran and Dutch_guy? Is someone organizing a vig group to take care of them?

I believe these two were the two attackers in the kage attempted hit.

I may be incorrect about don's not appearing in prot groups (we only have omanes' word anyway) but that is what I believed at the time and is why I gave you that reason "which don's can't do".

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 22:34

Finally, let us not forget that Sasaki was attacked on N7 by the Stracchi. Fortunately for him, his life was saved by a single individual. Doctor or Luca? As it turns out, Sasaki was informed ahead of time (at my suggestion and via JimBob) that he was going to be attacked. So, Sasaki DID have time to arrange for his own protection beforehand. Yet he did not turn to a townie group to do that, he turned to one individual. Despite all of this evidence, I am sure that Sasaki will claim that it was a Doctor that he knew personally, since how else could he have gotten one to help him on such short notice? Yet, how and when exactly did he locate this Doctor pal of his? Will the kindly fellow please step forward? No? I thought not.

If it's really necessary I can go through the rest of these accusations. I picked this one for now. I was protected by Myrdraal, the surgeon. We had been in contact previously. He sent me a pm about my made source and my answer satisfied him enough that he trusted me with his identity.

Kagemusha

03-05-2008, 22:35

Mighty fine speech there Tincow. It must have taken quite a while of time and effort to write it down. As you claim to be the one behind the whole town effort against mafia and you seem to find someone new to point finger at each new day. Could i ask couple questions? First why are you forgetting Kukrikhan and scottishranger consistently out of your suspects? Second, based on the very helpful list´s made by Ajaxfetish, there seems to be a single family called Cunnio, which no one knows nothing about and it seems the family doesnt kill either. Could it be that this family has masquared itself looking something quite different then a mafia family? I would be interested to hear your thoughts conserning these issues.:yes:

TinCow

03-05-2008, 22:36

Sasak: Care to explain:

Who your doctor friend was on N7?
Why people working with the town have been regularly and accurately targeted by two mafia families since the time you began working with our group?
Why Cowhead was killed immediately after you found out his identity, when no one else knew?
How you conveniently had access to a Made's detective results?
Why you were willing to kill Warluster without only a criminal result, when you weren't willing to do the same with Twilightblade or Joe Monks?
How an Italian Destiny banner showed up in a vigilante hit on Ichigo?

Kagemusa:

You are correct that I left people off. I was just listing those that had FoS raised by the Sasaki evidence. There are other people as well, including gibsonsg91921, who I have repeatedly stated is mafia, yet I also left off. As for Kukri, I know he is pro-town and I have been working with him for a long time.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 22:44

Also re:doctor, I sent this pm to jimbob right after you told me that you thought I was a doctor.

It would be a good idea to keep your contacts close. I feel that you guys are a little too trusting. You believed moros even though the reveal shows him as shady, there was the mix up with true praetorian, and TinCow is apparantly convinced I'm a doctor and revealed to me that [snip-sasaki]. That's all very well and I'm trustworthy, but I'm not actually a doctor, just a townie. Just keep it to yourself and give directions without reasons sometime.

Sasaki

Sasak: Care to explain:

Who your doctor friend was on N7?

Already explained.

Why people working with the town have been regularly and accurately targeted by two mafia families since the time you began working with our group?
Why Cowhead was killed immediately after you found out his identity, when no one else knew?

You knew all of these things as well. More on this in a minute.

How you conveniently had access to a Made's detective results?

I've explained this. I've also noticed that myrdraal trusted my explanation enough to reveal that he was the surgeon many rounds ago.

Why you were willing to kill Warluster without only a criminal result, when you weren't willing to do the same with Twilightblade or Joe Monks?

The town judged warluster worthy of death and he had a chance to defend himself. I wanted t'blade and joe to have the same chance.

How an Italian Destiny banner showed up in a vigilante hit on Ichigo?

A banner showed up, it was in english however. I'm assuming one of the six of us was a buddy of Ichigo. You were the only one involved in a failed hit on Ichigo earlier.

Kagemusha

03-05-2008, 22:45

Kagemusa:

You are correct that I left people off. I was just listing those that had FoS raised by the Sasaki evidence. There are other people as well, including gibsonsg91921, who I have repeatedly stated is mafia, yet I also left off. As for Kukri, I know he is pro-town and I have been working with him for a long time.

Allright.So let me get this straight. You are aware of confirmed mafiosi, but still you and Sasaki had difference in opinion to whether criminals should be be vig killed while there are actually guilty people running around alive. Seems like a pretty strange priority. Btw can i ask, what is your own status currently, will you come out as guilty in case you are investigated?

TinCow

03-05-2008, 22:50

Allright.So let me get this straight. You are aware of confirmed mafiosi, but still you and Sasaki had difference in opinion to whether criminals should be be vig killed while there are actually guilty people running around alive. Seems like a pretty strange priority. Btw can i ask, what is your own status currently, will you come out as guilty in case you are investigated?

The only guilty person I was aware of was gibson. Here is what I said to Sasaki about him, which is the exact same thing I've been saying since we killed Northnovas many nights ago:

I completely forgot, there is one other: gibsonsg91921. Part of the now defunct Stracchi family, and part of the duo that attempted to off you on N7. Not an important target, as there is no one left for him to kill with (he's a wiseguy), but worth cleaning up if we have nothing better to do.

My status is wiseguy and I will show up very, very guilty since I have killed: Factionheir, Northnovas, Tran, and Warluster.

Warluster

03-05-2008, 22:53

Warluster was built tough.

Seamus; how'd you know!

I'm happy I died rather then was lynched. Though I still remain to provide my opinion on the situation.

shlin28

03-05-2008, 23:00

Couple questions/ideas:

1. Why don't we select Tincow as director?

2. Maybe Twilightblade was revealed because Myrdraal's possible surgeon ability identified him and should have killed him, but because Myrdrall is dead, it only revealed Twilightblade?

3. Couple days ago, I asked Sasaki what I can do for the town (I did almost nothing this game :shame:) But he replied, "Ask Jimbob", when Jimbob was already gone for several days at that point...

Will vote tomorrow when I get back from school.

Seamus Fermanagh

03-05-2008, 23:03

An excellent point, my fellow Fatlingtonians!

Pardon, but the correct plural referrant is "Fatlings." Fatling is the root word I used to name the town, actually.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled lynch discussions.

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 23:05

Absolutely spiffin' history, TinCow!

I thought you were dead.. But I have discovered an interesting, strange thing on the discovery that you were alive...

You have not even once been attacked?
EDIT:
This comment is a mistake - TinCow is misrepresented in SF's write-up.

I am a fickle, terrible player who loves to stir people up to make mistakes, but even still,
I hope everyone will find something strange in the fact that an active player - whom I believe to be pro-town - has never once been targeted.

Is this an anomaly, TinCow, or because of your close encounters with the Mafia, and their trust of you therefore?

Would you share then if you have the role of Wiseguy or not?

Good job on keeping the finger pointed at Kagemusha.
He ask alot of questions and write many paragraphs to clear his name.

----

Oh, and Louis - I think you may have misspelt my name.

"Bee dee dee dee - Hang y' head and cry silly Louis..."

TinCow

03-05-2008, 23:10

I believe you'll find that I was attacked on N7 and survived by luck. I have expected my death every night since then. I believe I have been allowed to live, because I have been useful to Sasaki as cover. As with every other night since N7, I expect to die tonight.

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 23:14

I would expect to die too, I'm sorry for that mistake, I will edit it out.

You are not mentioned in the reports of Seamus Fermanagh.

But would you mind, Herr Cow, explaining why the attack happened on Night 7?
Believe me, it is rather helpless when you die with the smallest amount of information left unannounced.
(Hint, hint).

So may I suggest that, if you will die, or even if you otherwise have protection, may I suggest that you do the big "R"?

Documents, recordings, PMs and speculations.

It will be just like the finale of those detective movies.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 23:16

No reconsideration of your vote then TinCow? What are you basing it on now?

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 23:23

I would guess it is based on the fact you are lime-green scum.

Perhaps people will keep this in mind next time you start a bandwagon randomnly on Day 1.

Don't forget my suggestion, Herr Cow - please reveal everything when things are seeming grim.
But by all means don't rush that decision, timing is quite important I understand.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 23:23

My status is wiseguy and I will show up very, very guilty since I have killed: Factionheir, Northnovas, Tran, and Warluster.

Have you always been a wiseguy?

TinCow

03-05-2008, 23:25

Glenn: I have no idea why I was attacked. You'll have to ask the attacker. If you want a 'reveal' from me, I'll post my townie role PM and then my wiseguy role PM, but that seems pointless since they are both commonly available.

Sasaki: I stopped waffling on you after that N9 fiasco with Ichigo. I am basing my vote on the absolutely overwhelming evidence that you have done a very poor job of rebutting. My hat is off to you, though. I had no friggin' clue what to think about you for most of the game. I've probably sent out 20 PMs to various people asking what your reputation is and what their opinion is on you. You are truly a master of this game.

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 23:27

Ooooo you rat, you've always been despised - by everyone!
This time they were all right too!
Just look at your avatar! No townie hides their face like that.

Everybody who is just skimming the last page -

I refer you to TinCow's brilliant history of;

Sasaki Kojiro - The Mafia, the Myth, the Lynching.

Now available in paperback.

(Previous page!)

GeneralHankerchief

03-05-2008, 23:28

Oh God I wish I was able to post PMs right about now.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 23:29

Sasaki: I stopped waffling on you after that N9 fiasco with Ichigo. I am basing my vote on the absolutely overwhelming evidence that you have done a very poor job of rebutting. My hat is off to you, though. I had no friggin' clue what to think about you for most of the game. I've probably sent out 20 PMs to various people asking what your reputation is and what their opinion is on you. You are truly a master of this game.

So when you said "please reveal this "doctor friend" who protected you", and I said "myrdraal", this constitutes a poor rebuttal?

How about this?

My red text put me in contact with a made. At a certain point in the game, myrdraal contacted me. He had similar red text and wished to test if mine was genuine. We discussed at as much as we could within the restraints. He believed I was telling the truth about it, thought not trusting me entirely (he told me someone else was the doctor first to see if they turned up dead). Now, why would a don have red text putting him in contact with a made?

Seamus Fermanagh

03-05-2008, 23:37

Oh God I wish I was able to post PMs right about now.

Sorry to restrict you thus.

PLEASE do include what you would have said during your postgame writeup.

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 23:38

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 23:40

Have you always been a wiseguy?

You didn't answer this question but I found it in an old post of yours:

Please accept my apologies for that. I did that intentionally to try to keep GH alive, since his lynch votes were getting very high. I suppose that deserves an explanation...

At that point, I was working with GH, Northnovas, and gibson in an attempt to make a 6th mafia family. When GH died, that became pointless (I was a townie, so there was no possibility to make kills with the three surviving members). The rest wanted to join the Stracchi, but I thought that was a bad idea and wanted to go pro-town. I tried to convince them of this, but I stopped when it became obvious that I was the only one who held that position. So, I pretended to go along with their plan, with them thinking I was operating as an informant within the townie groups. In fact, I was giving all my information to JimBob and helping influence the Stracchi to hit mafia targets instead of townie targets. JimBob can confirm this, as I came clean on everything early on. When the Stracchi decided to start targeting townies, we decided it was time to eliminate them for good, hence last night's actions and the information I have provided since then.

Again, apologies for that 'attack' post earlier. It was an intentional tactic on my part to keep votes off of GH.

In this post, where you are describing your attempt to form a mafia family, you not that you were a townie. Given this rule from the townie pm:

2. After two such successful kills, you may elect to continue the game as a Wiseguy, or you may remain a Townie. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

Why did you choose to become a wiseguy instead of staying a townie?

GeneralHankerchief

03-05-2008, 23:43

Sorry to restrict you thus.

PLEASE do include what you would have said during your postgame writeup.

Am I allowed to allude/paraphrase?

Twilightblade

03-05-2008, 23:44

Trust a WoG victim to reveal me

It seems that my revealing caused Myrddraal to get shot, not my intention

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 23:47

Trust a WoG victim to reveal me

It seems that my revealing caused Myrddraal to get shot, not my intention

What is your role?

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 23:47

GeneralHankerchief -

From experience, you can come nigh close to beating the information into the audience with a hammer, as long as you don't blankly reveal.

To be polite however, it seems best to be obscure and poetic.

*** Just a reminder to everyone ***

This entire page is not about TwilightBlade or his role.

It is about the scum scooper Sasaki getting stuck like a pig.

TruePraetorian

03-05-2008, 23:48

So when you said "please reveal this "doctor friend" who protected you", and I said "myrdraal", this constitutes a poor rebuttal?

How about this?

My red text put me in contact with a made. At a certain point in the game, myrdraal contacted me. He had similar red text and wished to test if mine was genuine. We discussed at as much as we could within the restraints. He believed I was telling the truth about it, thought not trusting me entirely (he told me someone else was the doctor first to see if they turned up dead). Now, why would a don have red text putting him in contact with a made?

....Kinda obvious...that was a dumb question Sasaki....YOUR OWN MADE POSSIBLY???

I have trusted TinCow since...what...day 6??

Vote: Sasaki

I might miss the rest of this day phase...i will let you know if you can prove yourself innocent i will withdraw my vote...but TinCow is one helluva writer...nice Biography TC.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 23:48

Am I allowed to allude/paraphrase?

I'm pretty sure you're allowed to say something like "TinCow is full of it" or perhaps "lynch TinCow".

Sasaki Kojiro

03-05-2008, 23:55

....Kinda obvious...that was a dumb question Sasaki....YOUR OWN MADE POSSIBLY???

I have trusted TinCow since...what...day 6??

Vote: Sasaki

I might miss the rest of this day phase...i will let you know if you can prove yourself innocent i will withdraw my vote...but TinCow is one helluva writer...nice Biography TC.

That wouldn't be red text, it would be normal text. I guess Myrdraal isn't allowed to shed much light on this being dead, perhaps Norwegian Nerd will?

TinCow thought you were guilty at one point TP.

Kagemusha

03-05-2008, 23:56

This is getting pretty weird. A serial killer type of role has been revealed last night and Tincows crew is voting for Sasaki, which is more of a priority? Or do you have some hidden agenda to get Sasaki out from the picture as soon as possible? I think will vote the revealed killer instead of blindly trusting Tincows crew,who seem to be guilty each of them while there is a somehow invisible mafia family at large. Vote: Twilightblade

Twilightblade

03-05-2008, 23:58

PershsNhpios

03-05-2008, 23:58

Quick reminder on vote tallies.

I'm sorry, I would do it if I understood how to without either taking an hour or making a mistake... I don't mean for this to be spam, so I'll make it meaningful.

Sasaki has been exposed properly by TinCow, in the controversial unauthorised biography entitled;

Sasaki Kojiro - The Mafia, The Man, The Lynch-him-dead.

Now available on page 102.

TruePraetorian

03-06-2008, 00:10

TinCow thought you were guilty at one point TP.

I really am sick of that being said a bunch...here is the story for all those wondering...

I am lacking in names and dont feel like going back as my internet is bad, so bear with me, but TinCow and JimBob (still not here...) can confirm this.

After grouping with Sasaki, JimBob sent me a PM asking me what i was doing that night. I told him nothing, since Sasaki didnt send out the PMs yet. He sent me some orders to kill Tran.

Needless to say, the hit failed, and the TinCow/JimBob combo became suspicious (without telling me of course). Their plan was to see who didnt send in the orders. They sent me a PM to attack the same person.

I was the only person to send in the orders. That was the test.

In the write-up, Seamus included me in a hit on FactionHeir(?) instead of a single attempt on Tran. Ask Seamus, this is where he screwed up. He then PMed me saying "sorry, i think i included you in Factionheir's attack...but it doesnt matter the attack on Tran failed."

I then asked him to fix it, but he said it was "too juicy, and i like the way it is".

Seeing that Tran was not attacked in the post, JimBob immediatly declared me Mafia, seeing that i "failed" my test.

Seamus then sent messages to JimBob and TinCow to clear things up.

No one mentioned me in the attack on Tran because I assume he was trying to protect my identity (TinCow was).

There ya go, that should clear things up.

And also, I am very pressed for time...managed to sneak back in and type this up...Unvote: SasakiVote: Abstain

I honestly fergot I was in a bunch of your protection groups...sorry i read TC's post and thought it was the most convincing tale in years without thinking....it wasnt a bandwagon just lack of time in judgement...forgive me.

Caius

03-06-2008, 00:11

Vote:MyeyeshurtnandIcantplaymafiacauseofmyeyes.

Sorry guys, I had an oculist visit and I had to do something that doesnt allow me to see well.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 00:13

I'm inclined to believe T'blades story:

Hi TB, what is your role in capo? Some kind of serial killer?

Sasaki

more a bored player who has need for excitement

and soloing is exciting and always fails so I'm not killing off the town

Both times the attack failed and a serial killer would have been present from the beginning.

PershsNhpios

03-06-2008, 00:25

I would believe that you are squirming like a worm under the spotlight.

Please, I don't mean to be rude, (At least, not to everyone but Sasaki), but the tally, folks, the tally!

TruePraetorian, I don't understand how you responded so largely to Sasaki, who is pointing at everyone who is still alive, yet then sympathised with him?

If I remember, JimBob had other good reasons to distrust you.. which unfortunately cannot be revealed.

But they were not as overpoered as those reasons which condemn Sasaki!

TinCow

03-06-2008, 00:28

Herr Cow, you have no further information other than your role PMs?

I only survived a few short days, yet I had a wide range of opinions and intelligence from several players, I knew a hell of a lot more than what was simply involving me. (And I enjoyed it too!)

So you, who are still alive on day 12, have no contacts or evidence aside from this biography of Sasaki?

Are you kidding me? I've been disclosing information pretty much every single day since D8. I do still have other information on people and actions that I have not publicly disclosed, but none of that information is restricted to me. I have shared all important information I have with multiple people throughout this game. First it was JimBob, then Crazed Rabbit, and there are now two others who are still alive who know everything I know. If I die, nothing important will be lost to the town.

Why did you choose to become a wiseguy instead of staying a townie?

Because it cut down on the number of people required to make a vigilante kill, thus allowing us to do more of them. You can ask the same thing of several other townies who have advanced to wiseguy with me, including the now dead Husar and Haudegen.

This is getting pretty weird. A serial killer type of role has been revealed last night and Tincows crew is voting for Sasaki, which is more of a priority? Or do you have some hidden agenda to get Sasaki out from the picture as soon as possible? I think will vote the revealed killer instead of blindly trusting Tincows crew,who seem to be guilty each of them while there is a somehow invisible mafia family at large. Vote: Twilightblade

It should be pretty clear by the length of my initial post and the time it came after Seamus' writeup that I had prepared it in advance. I had no idea Twilightblade was going to be revealed. After I saw it, I simply added a note to his FoS and posted it as I had originally intended. It's clear that either Sasaki or Twilightblade will be lynched tonight. I guarantee you, I will be organizing a vigilante group tonight to kill whichever one survives.

Also, TP's account of his situation is completely accurate.

TinCow

03-06-2008, 00:30

I'm inclined to believe T'blades story:

Are you serious? Twilightblade's hit on Myrddraal was a two person hit and left an Italian Destiny family sign. How could he possibly be a solo serial killer?

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 00:33

Read it again TinCow.

PershsNhpios

03-06-2008, 00:33

Well, the point is that he isn't a Serial Killer.

Sasaki is just pulling out all the stops in order to make the bad publicity go away.

By the way, I was not kidding you, I wanted to make sure you had nothing left in the shadows.

TinCow

03-06-2008, 00:43

Read it again TinCow.

You're right, there were three killers. Twilightblade and two others. The two others were definitely Italian Destiny, but there's no guarantee that Twilightblade wasn't as well. In any case, he's earned himself a trip to the top of the vigilante kill list unless a higher priority is revealed before tonight.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 00:46

hmm no I rather think gibson is still at the top of that list. Btw why didn't you respond to my questions up there?

TinCow

03-06-2008, 00:50

You dodge answers to my questions, so I'll dodge answers to yours. I've made my case and I'm perfectly happy to let people decide based on what has already been posted.

PershsNhpios

03-06-2008, 00:58

This is my last post without opinion or possible evasive spam.

Since it gives an excellent reason, or fifty, as to why Sasaki should be strung up with a meathook, and so that it has no chance to disappear before this occurs - I once again recommend the biography written by TC on;

Sasaki Kojiro - The Mafia, The Myth, The Why-He-Must-Die-Now.

Available on Page 102. Please read this.

TC is too modest!

gibsonsg91921

03-06-2008, 01:02

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

So Glenn'll shaddap. JK :laugh:

Drisos

03-06-2008, 01:13

So gibson... finally quit lurking, when the lynch is getting intresting? scum scum..

still, sasaki should be lynched.. but he's not the only one.

Town is going to lose. (if there are even pro-town people alive?) however.. let us hope as much scum as possible dies in the process.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 01:15

You dodge answers to my questions, so I'll dodge answers to yours. I've made my case and I'm perfectly happy to let people decide based on what has already been posted.

Which questions did I dodge? :dizzy2:

I showed how ridiculous a bunch of your accusation was and then asked what rest you wanted explained. You posted a list of questions which I answered. You haven't posted any response to those. How about a few "I was completely wrong about that"'s?

btw, I've played enough mafia games on this site to have an idea what happens next. A bunch of mafia read the thread and say "yay! we can lynch sasaki" and a bunch of townies say "hmm well you never can tell with sasaki we were going to have to lynch him anyway he's always suspicious blah blah". The role reveal will prove me right in a few days. I'm more interested to see whether you truly are mafia or are just under some illusion. There's no reason for a townie not to respond when his accusations are shown to be false.

Myrddraal

03-06-2008, 01:20

I believe Sasaki to be innocent. In fact, I believe him to be a townie.

I can't reveal anything contained within PM conversations. So I'll just quote some of the things Sasaki has said, and invite you to read them again.

If it's really necessary I can go through the rest of these accusations. I picked this one for now. I was protected by Myrdraal, the surgeon. We had been in contact previously. He sent me a pm about my made source and my answer satisfied him enough that he trusted me with his identity.

So when you said "please reveal this "doctor friend" who protected you", and I said "myrdraal", this constitutes a poor rebuttal?

How about this?

My red text put me in contact with a made. At a certain point in the game, myrdraal contacted me. He had similar red text and wished to test if mine was genuine. We discussed at as much as we could within the restraints. He believed I was telling the truth about it, thought not trusting me entirely (he told me someone else was the doctor first to see if they turned up dead). Now, why would a don have red text putting him in contact with a made?

Glenn, putting text in bold and being sarcastic does not make your arguments stronger. Try basing them on something more...

I'm sorry to be dead :sad: Good Luck Town

Craterus

03-06-2008, 01:53

Woah, interesting night. I'm a little too tired to cope with so much argument and counter-argument but I should be back before the phase ends.

For now, I'll vote: abstain.

If someone has time, a tally would probably be helpful to everyone, especially Seamus. I have to sleep though :zzz:

Xehh II

03-06-2008, 01:57

Vote: Sasaki Kojiro

Unfortunately TinCow makes a lot of good points against you.

scottishranger

03-06-2008, 02:29

I vote: abstain for now. I have been gone for a while, and I need to catch up on events.

naut

03-06-2008, 02:40

Some good points made by TinCow, the town may still stand a chance.

John86

03-06-2008, 02:42

So thanks again everyone, for lynching me, a fellow townie.

Twilightblade

03-06-2008, 04:34

Are you serious? Twilightblade's hit on Myrddraal was a two person hit and left an Italian Destiny family sign. How could he possibly be a solo serial killer?

I wouldn't have been revealed if I was part of a team would I?

Joe Monks

03-06-2008, 04:39

Vote:Twilightblade

I think there is something inherently wrong about you. Maybe a buddy of yours didnt show up. Maybe you are some kind of serial killer.

But hers the thing, why attempt to kill the surgeon?

Joe

Joe Monks

03-06-2008, 04:46

We’re unable to figure out what was going on with Hiji. He was, by all accounts, a very straight-laced citizen with no criminal record or leanings whatsoever. His apartment was barren, save for a cot, a stool in the kitchen, and a large wooden cross. His storage closet outside contained a pair of shears, 50 yards of mid-gauge wire on a spool and about 2000 feet of nylon cord, also on a spool. Makes no sense to us.”

Why say this, does this mean that there will be a further reveal on Hiji?
This actually interests me.

Joe

PershsNhpios

03-06-2008, 05:22

Well, the fact that two townies were mentioned in that report, and Hiji was given an entirely seperate reveal means he was not a fellow townie.

But it certainly does not sound as dark as Moros' write-up.

I'm willing to believe he was less dangerous than Sasaki is now.

----

Joe Monks

Since the very night in which TwilightBlade - a player I never even spoke to - unvoted me, Joe Monks has wanted him dead.

Everyone seems to have long since forgotten such suspicions - because I am at the very least proven pro-town - and so even if Twilight was trying to help me because he had an affiliation with me, he would be proven but more helpful to the town.

So why, Joe Monks, out of all the other suspects, do you choose to target Twilightblade instead of Sasaki Kojiro?

It is obvious you don't want to pay any attention to the arguments raised against Kojiro - yet even though this is suspicious - even more so is your relentless pursuit of this player.

Here are 3 reasons I can think of;

1. You are Mafia, you realise TB is innocent, you realise Sasaki is Mafia, you want to the former to die preferrably.

2. You have a special role which requires the death of TwilightBlade.

3. You are pro-town, you know TB is guilty and have information that proves this.

If one of the first two are correct, you are probably not pro-town.

If the latter is true, then why are you withholding information?

---

Myrddraal I'm glad you honoured my name in bold print, but it doesn't mean I will heed your advice whatsoever.
Protecting Sasaki against enormous waves of common sense and decency.
"Scummy", as Drisos would say.

Speaking of Drisos - Would you not give your opinion more broadly, former Detective?

LittleGrizzly

03-06-2008, 05:32

Why does everyone think Myrddraal is a surgeon ? ive seen no proof of this ?

im really not sure about sasaki, i have a feeling he's scum..

Twilightblade

03-06-2008, 06:03

But hers the thing, why attempt to kill the surgeon?

Joe

Apart from not knowing whether he is a surgeon, solos never kill so there to my point of view was no risk of me killing, but there was always a risk of being revealed

vote: abstain

Haudegen

03-06-2008, 07:07

Twilightblade, you should tell us a little bit more if you want to survive this day.

What´s your role?
Why did you attack Myrd?
Who were your partners (who apparently let you down)?

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 07:47

Ok, I was going to wait for TinCow to defend himself before summing everything up but he doesn't appear willing (or able) to.

Let me summarize his accusation.

1) Accusation: Sasaki claimed to be the doctor

Therefore, Sasaki cannot be a Doctor and he is lying when he says he is.

As I showed in posts 3047 and 3048, this is false. I never claimed to be the doctor. I found it odd that TinCow would think I was, so I let him believe that while informing JimBob of the truth. When CR asked me why TinCow trusted me I replied with this:

Well, the proof I provided to tincow was that I was the lone protector of Kagemusha in the story a few nights ago. The plan was to have 4 of us attack him and 3 defend him. Tincow and haudegen were the other protectors but they had already made plans and it fell through. I've turned up innocent to investigations and I don't believe dons can participate in protection groups. I don't entirely trust tincow and I don't see why he trusts you.

Sasaki

There is no claim to be doctor in that pm.

2) Accusation: Sasaki was protected by a luca night 7

Finally, let us not forget that Sasaki was attacked on N7 by the Stracchi. Fortunately for him, his life was saved by a single individual. Doctor or Luca? As it turns out, Sasaki was informed ahead of time (at my suggestion and via JimBob) that he was going to be attacked. So, Sasaki DID have time to arrange for his own protection beforehand. Yet he did not turn to a townie group to do that, he turned to one individual. Despite all of this evidence, I am sure that Sasaki will claim that it was a Doctor that he knew personally, since how else could he have gotten one to help him on such short notice? Yet, how and when exactly did he locate this Doctor pal of his? Will the kindly fellow please step forward? No? I thought not.

This is false. If you read the writeup it was clearly a surgeon:

In fact, more than a few rounds had ricocheted dangerously close to the shooters themselves. They themselves had come closer to death than their target!

This surgeon was Myrdraal:

No problem, JimBob suggested you, I was going to protect CR.

Yeah since my first to protections I have a chance to kill attackers. It doubles after 2 successfull protections as surgeon. 1 more protection and I'll be a killing machine

Myrddraal says today:

I believe Sasaki to be innocent. In fact, I believe him to be a townie.

So it should be obvious I'm not making this up.

3) Accusation: Sasaki's red text is a lie

Red text? A convenient excuse, especially for a man who is lying about his role. Wouldn’t the simplest explanation simply be that the Made was from his own family?

This is also false. See Myrdraal's post a few above mine. This alone should prove me innocent.

4) Accusation: Sasaki couldn't wait one day before lynching CR

Well, how about this: as soon as Sasaki was informed that Crazed Rabbit was the FBI Detective, he immediately spearheaded the bandwagon to get Crazed Rabbit lynched! Despite a great deal of evidence that shed doubt on Sasaki’s accusations, he refused to relent or even to delay for one day to see if Crazed Rabbit’s results on Makanyane were accurate. He would not even wait one day for a man who might have been the all-important FBI Detective.

This is also false. As you can see from the above pm, I was informed that Myrdraal was going to protect CR but protected me instead. I'm not stupid, I can put two and two together. If I was a don I could have had CR killed back then without bothering to try and get him lynched in the thread. CR was pretty clearly guilty but that's another story.

5) Accusation: Sasaki had the townie group killed off

Chimpyang (N5)
ajaxfetish (N6)
Lt. Pinard (N6)
Husar (N7)
Sarathos (N8)
Haudegen (N9)
Cowhead418 (N10)
LittleGrizzly (N10)

What do all these people have in common? Why, they were all working with the townie vigilante and protection groups, or aiding the town in some other manner. All of them! Every last one!

both Sarathos and Tran were WiseGuys rumored to have been part of mafia killing teams.

Sarathos was mafia and was aware of as much of the list as I was. Several others were common knowledge, some I was not even aware of. Also note that the mafia try to target active townies, and most active townies were in protection groups. I was never aware that Lt. Pinard and LittleGrizzly were in townie groups. If you look at last game I tried to keep my townie group alive when I was mafia. And so on and so on. There isn't any meat to this accusation.

6) Accusation: The banner during Ichigo's death points to Sasaki

If ichigo was in the italian mafia how come the killed last night and the rose mafia didn't? How come Ichigo claimed earlier to be in the rose mafia? What reason does TinCow have to claim I was ichigo's buddy and not one of the other attackers? None. I don't know what the banner meant.

7) Accusation: Sasaki killed Cowhead after Tincow let his name slip

The answer is Cowhead418. You see, as I revealed after his death, Cowhead418 was a detective; a devoted servant of the town, sworn to root out evil and injustice. His identity was known ONLY to JimBob, Crazed Rabbit, and myself. Well, not quite, you see.

I am, what some of you might call, a Mafia n00b. I have never engaged in this ‘game’ before, and have thus made a few errors that more experienced players would not have. One of those errors occurred during my desperate attempts to save Crazed Rabbit from the lynch on D10. As part of these efforts, I contacted Sasaki directly by PM and gave him further evidence about Crazed Rabbit’s actions in an attempt to convince him to halt his attack on our wonderful FBI Detective. While doing this, I forwarded a PM to Sasaki from JimBob that included a list of all of our detective results, because Sasaki was interested in knowing the precise date and time that we started receiving them from Crazed Rabbit. When I did this, I put XXXXXX in the place of all ‘unrevealed’ detective names. Or so I thought.

It turns out, I made a n00b error, and missed a reference to Cowhead418 that was elsewhere in the PM. His name was in plain sight for Sasaki to see. Guess what happened on N10? That’s right, Cowhead418 was murdered by the Italian Destiny family. The night immediately after Sasaki got a hold of Cowhead418’s identity.

I sent TinCow this:

It was actually JimBob who at first convinced me that CR was trustworthy.

When did this occur? Time, date etc.

Sasaki

I'll dig it up, one sec.

All he had to do was give me the date and time. Instead he sent me a pm revealing the entire townie organization and left one of the instances of Cowheads name uncensored. In addition, he followed it up with a pm that explicitly said he'd messed up and included cowheads name and that he was the detective. And then cowhead get's killed and he blames me for it, making a big deal out of how the same night he told me cowhead was a detective cowhead died. Well guess what? I'd been told the name of another detective, and informed who the surgeon was, and who the surgeon was protecting, and none of them turned up dead on the night. TinCow even knew about the other detective not turning up dead. Now, when I saw cowhead killed I considered briefly that TinCow had sent his name to the mafia but quickly dismissed it. There's no reason why they couldn't have chosen Cowhead because he fit the profile they were after. But this really looks to me like TinCow purposely leaked the name to me and had Cowhead killed that night, planning to frame it on me.

So as you can see, most of TinCow's argument has been shown to be complete bunk, and the rest to be fairly meaningless. There is also strong evidence presented of my innocence. So what is TinCow's response?

I am basing my vote on the absolutely overwhelming evidence that you have done a very poor job of rebutting.

You dodge answers to my questions, so I'll dodge answers to yours. I've made my case and I'm perfectly happy to let people decide based on what has already been posted.

This is absolutely, crystal clearly not the case. No townie would claim that I've done a "very poor job rebutting" his evidence (much of what I've posted in this summary had been posted previously) and refuse to answer questions. He makes specific factual claims which I responded to factually that have been backed up by other people and by a multitude of pm evidence. He refuses to answer questions not because he's content with his case but because he can't answer them. If he was town he would say he was wrong. He's mafia and simply avoiding this thread.

Vote:TinCow

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 07:52

Haudegen

03-06-2008, 08:05

Valid points, Sasaki. I´m very interested in TinCow´s response.

And let´s not forget about Twilightblade:

What´s your role?
Why did you attack Myrd?
Who were your partners (who apparently let you down)?

Tally

Sasaki - 3 - (TinCow, gibson, XehhII)
TinCow - 1- (Sasaki)
Twilightblade - 1 - (Joe Monks)

Abstain - 1 - (TruePraetorian)

ajaxfetish

03-06-2008, 08:19

Mafia status as of N11:

--Stracci. Don: Omanes A. (dead), Luca: Dutch Guy (dead), Made: Andres (dead), NorthNovas (dead), Former associated wise guy: LouisVI (dead), associated wise guys or mades: Tran (dead), Gibson. Calling Card: Pink ballet slippers. Victims: Drisos (detective, N1), Pannonian (wise guy, N3), Motep (wise guy, N5), Louis VI (presumed wise guy, N6), attempted hits on GH (N2, N3), Proletariat (N4), Craterus (N6), Sasaki (N7), Brave Sir Robin (N7).

--Corleone. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Tiberius of the Drake (dead). Have called for a mafia truce through Tiberius and TosaInu.

--Tataglia. Don: Unknown, Luca: Makanyane (according to CR), Made: Unknown. Have responded to the Corleones' call for truce, according to TosaInu's second relayed communication.

--Barzini. (Rose group according to Louis), associated wise guy: Ichigo (according to Louis)

--Cunnio.

Religious Weather Balloon group. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown. Calling Card: Weather balloons and religious paraphernalia. Victims: Glenn (crusader?, N3), Beefy (townie, N3), The Stranger (townie, N3), GH (wise guy, N4), attempted hits on Glenn (N2) and Proletariat (N4, N5, N6?). This family made an explosive entrance on night 3, but seems to have been a one-night wonder. Based on Hiji's postmortem, he may be involved with this group or entirely responsible for these kills.

Rose group (Barzinis according to Louis, Tataglia if CR's results on Makanyane are correct). Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: Rose and a preference for explosives. Victims: Zorg (wise guy, N3), Moros (N4, wise guy or wolf-type character), Chimpyang (townie, N5, black rose), Lt. Pinard (townie, N6), Haudegen (wise guy, N9), LittleGrizzly (N10), attempted hit on CR (N6, white rose), possible attempted hit on Proletariat (N4).

Italian Destiny group. Don: Unknown, Luca: Unknown, Made: Unknown, associated wise guys if any: unknown. Calling Card: an Italian phrase (destiny is inexorable). Victims: Kamikhaan (townie, N5), ajaxfetish (townie, N6), Husar (townie, N7), Sarathos (mafia wise guy, N8), Cowhead418 (N10), Myrddraal (N11). This group has no known failures as of yet, so a very high batting average for them.

Omanes suspected Sigurd to be the don of the Barzinis, JimBob asserted he was the don of the Corleones. Sigurd claimed to be the King of Hearts hitman. Sigurd's post-mortem has shown he was indeed a mafia don, but has not established his family.

TinCow has accused Sasaki of being a mafia don managing the actions of the rose group and/or Italian destiny group. Sasaki has counter-accused TinCow of once again trying to enter/setup a mafia family and betray the town.

----------------------------------------------------

Musings:

Lone killers with calling cards or consistent modi operandi
--.577 Webley. A rogue killer of unknown motivation. A single individual using the same weapon shot Kommodus (luca, N4), Woad&Fangs (wise guy, N5), and Makanyane (luca, N8). Based on the type of victims, this killer may be protown.
--King of Hearts. Another lone killer is operating, using knives and leaving King of Hearts playing cards. He participated in killing Woad & Fangs (wise guy, N5) and Louis VI (presumed wise guy, N6), and attempted a kill on TinCow (N7). Sigurd falsely claimed to have this role.
--Ashanderei: Twilightblade. Yet another solo attacker, but without any successful kills as yet. Attempted hits on Proletariat (N9), Elite Ferret (N10), and Myrddraal (N11). The N9 attempt sounded like another attacker was expected but didn't show. This attacker was revealed as Twilightblade during his unsuccessful attack on Myrddraal. TB's defense, in PM to Sasaki, was that he is a bored player doing solo vig hits knowing that they'll fail. Based on his three solo failures and lack of successful kills, this explanation is at least plausible. According to the rules, solo townies run the risk of dying in a vig attempt, solo wise guys or mafia a risk of being identified.

--Society for Creative Anachronism. This townie vigilante organization was coordinated by JimBob starting on N5 and in his absence is currently led by TinCow. Successful hits on FactionHeir (made, N6), Northnovas (made, N7), Tran (mafia wise guy, N8), Ichigo (N10), Warluster (N11). Failed hits on Tran (N5)-not enough pms, Twilightblade (N5)-not enough pms, Tran (N7)-apparently luck, Ichigo (N9)-not enough pms, Charge (N9)-apparently luck.

As Louis has mentioned, CR could very well have been either the FBI detective or a don. Makanyane's post-mortem established that she was indeed a luca, but did not specify her family. The evidence seems to weigh in favor of CR indeed being the FBI detective, but not quite beyond any reasonable doubt.

Hiji's post-mortem is quite interesting. He came up as townie, but had a bare apartment containing little besides a wooden cross and a lot of wire. Given all the people killed nights 3 and 4 by the 'weather balloon mafia,' which used religious paraphernalia and wire in many of their disposals, I'm very intrigued. Was it not a family after all, but a special role with the ability to kill multiple targets on a single night? Seems a little overpowered for the game. Was he operating in conjunction with the family? I'm confused but sense a connection. If it is accurate then his N4 guilty result by CR is accurate as well, and he is no 'townie.'

Woah, just had a further random speculation on Hiji. Glenn & Co. have mentioned the possibility of an evil mirror of their organization. Could Hiji and EMFM both have been part of such a group and managed to go a-slaying night 3? Perhaps the 3rd member was lost soon thereafter, severely limiting their actions since then? Could Moros have been a part of it? I feel like I'm either a genius or I'm wandering way off into left field with this one. Any thoughts?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Detective results:

Cowhead418 (via TinCow, N5 & N6 also via a further anonymous intermediary), claimed as regular detective

N1: pevergreen = criminal (lynched D2, wise guy, accurate)
N1: The Stranger = innocent (murdered N3, townie, accurate)
N2: Glenn = innocent (murdered N3, crusader?, probably accurate)
N2: Crazed Rabbit = innocent (lynched D10, results pending)
N3: charge = criminal (lynched D11, results pending)
N3: ajaxfetish = innocent (murdered N6, townie, accurate)
N4: Proletariat = innocent (still alive)
N4: Twilightblade = criminal (still alive)
N5: Rhythmic = innocent (murdered N5, townie, accurate)
N5: Myrddraal = innocent (murdered N11, results pending)
N6: norwegian nerd = innocent (still alive)
N6: FactionHeir = criminal (murdered N6, made, accurate)

CR, claimed as FBI detective

N1: Andres = guilty (lynched D5, made, murdered Drisos N1, accurate)
N1: Proletariat = innocent (still alive)
N2: GeneralHankerchief = criminal, wise guy (murdered N4, wise guy, accurate)
N2: Moros = criminal (murdered N4, wise guy or shadow, accurate)
N3: Twilightblade = criminal (still alive)
N3: Makanyane = guilty (murdered N8, luca, accuracy depends on N3 victims)
N4: FactionHeir = guilty (murdered N6, made, accuracy depends on N4 victims)
N4: Hiji = guilty (lynched D9, townie but with anomalies, accurate if involved in killing anyone by N4)
N5: Joe Monks = criminal (still alive)
N5: Makanyane = guilty N5, Tataglia Luca from outset of game. (murdered N8, luca, accuracy depends on N5 victims)
N6: LittleGrizzly = innocent (murdered N10, results pending)
N6: norwegian nerd = innocent (still alive)
N7: Roadkill = innocent (WoGged N9, townie, accurate)
N7: Warluster = criminal (murdered N11, results pending)
N8: Myrddraal = innocent (murdered N11, results pending)
N8: Ironside = innocent (still alive)

Victims N3, N4, and N5
N3: taka (I think that was TinCow's old wise guy group (with GH, gibsong, and ?NorthNovas? Didn't he claim that?), Beefy (balloon mafia), Zorg (rose mafia), Pannonian (Straccis), the Stranger (balloon mafia), Glenn (balloon mafia).
N4: Kommodus (.577 Webley), Moros (rose mafia), Xiahou (no calling card).
N5: Kamikhaan (Italian destiny mafia), Chimpyang (rose mafia), Motep (Straccis), Rhythmic (no calling card), Woad & Fangs (King of Hearts hitman).

For the guilty results on Makanyane to be accurate, she must (1) have been part of the rose mafia, (2) have been in the balloon mafia but also helped the ?vigilante group? that killed Rhythmic, or (3) characters shown guilty by a detective result continue to be shown guilty regardless of future activity--this seems unlikely but seems not to be explicitly denied in Seamus' rules.
For the guilty results on FactionHeir to be accurate, he must (1) have been part of the rose mafia, or (2) have been part of the ?vigilante group? that killed Xiahou.

Summary of the living, assuming Cowhead's and CR's investigations are accurate:

Innocent (pro-town or don): Proletariat (both), norwegian nerd (both), Ironside (CR only)
Criminal (wise guy or mafia): Twilightblade (both), Joe Monks (CR only)

----------------------------------------------------------------

Post-mortem results:

22 pro-town
Townie: Lord Winter, Beefy, taka, the Stranger, FahadI, killfr3nzy, Sapi, Xiahou, Rhythmic, molonthegreat, Chimpyang, Kamikhaan, ajaxfetish, Lt. Pinard, Husar, JohnHughThom, Roadkill, Alexander the Pretty Good, Hiji (though his post-mortem is very suspicious)
Detective: Drisos
Crusader?: Glenn, Rob the Celt

15 neutral
Wise Guy: Pevergreen, Hannibal, Pannonian, Zorg, GH, x-Danger, Moros (though Moros may be an unaffiliated mafia member), Motep, WarmasterHorus, Woad&Fangs, Xdeathfire, LouisVI (though Seamus write-up was not specific on his starting role), EMFM (I'm not sure where exactly to put him, so he goes neutral for now), Haudegen, BKS

11 mafia
Affiliated Wise Guy: Tran (Stracci), Sarathos (family unknown)
Made: Tiberius (Corleone), Andres (Stracci), FactionHeir (family unknown), NorthNovas (Stracci)
Luca: Kommodus (family unknown), Dutch Guy (Stracci), Makanyane (family unknown but claimed by CR to be Tataglia)
Don: Omanes (Stracchi), Sigurd (family unknown)

Ajax

PS Thanks for the positive feedback, guys. I've been behind the last few nights, but I'm working to still get them out every day. I worry that they might be too long, and new info might get lost if someone doesn't want to check the whole post for changes, but I think it's important to have everything still available for double-checking and all. Errors are entirely possible as I'm only human and clearly have access to limited info in this game, but I try to glean all my information from fact or reasonable inference (primarily from Seamus' write-ups) or else acknowledge the source of info or suspicions. Any falsehoods or poor reasoning are honest mistakes on my part.

Crazed Rabbit

03-06-2008, 08:21

I think gibson and xehh should explain there votes more.

To add more explanation for why I believe TinCow is mafia:

Put yourself in his shoes for a minute. You are trying to form a family, but it doesn't work out. So you betray them to the town all the while convincing them that you are on their side. Keep this in mind, he was able to convince his mafia group that he was with them. This shows he is a competant liar. Now he gets in tight with a townie group and once again convinces them he is on their side. Maybe he is for a while. But think of a scenario in which he managed to join a family? What would he do? He gather all the information on the power roles, find someone to blame for their deaths, and then start killing them. He'd have to have a good case against his target so he'd work up a big post and have it prepared.

It all fits together.

Your analysis is worth ****. Sorry Sasaki, normally I think of you as a competent mafia hunter, but you're totally and completely off in this game. You're practically Silver Rusher.

Tincow has made errors, but his are due to incompetence, while yours are due to, shall we say, foolishness.

But my anger at Sasaki for his boneheaded maneuver of getting the FBI agent lynched is less than my anger at the mafia.

Neither Tincow nor Sasaki should die today.

Craterus, whom I strongly suspect is a don - remember his being saved due to a protector - must die.

He slipped through but cannot be allowed to do so again.

The dons must be killed. That is how the town wins the game.

Crazed Rabbit

CountArach

03-06-2008, 08:24

I'm really tired now and University is taking up a lot of my time. I will try and get something good up tomorrow.

Andres

03-06-2008, 09:45

a) TinCow, one of the points you make against Sasaki is that a lot of people who were working with you died. You claim Sasaki's family took them out, because he knew their identity and he knew that they were working closely together for the town.

You realise that there is somebody else who also knew these people, do you? That person, TinCow, is you.

b) Myrddraal vouched for Sasaki. Myrddraal is a surgeon. Why not waiting for the post mortem result on Myrddraal? In the meanwhile, you can focus on real scum.

Myrddraal

03-06-2008, 12:21

Glenn, I have no beef with you, this is all within the role play of the game :bow:

I believe you are making a mistake, and I've presented some pretty solid evidence to back me up. Don't stick to your guns when you're shooting at your friends.

As for why I protected Sasaki, let me remind you of a few quotes:

I also actively encouraged them to hit Sasaki, because I've gotten bad vibes from him for a while now. However, I became a lot less clear about Sasaki recently, and for that reason he was specifically warned about that he was going to be hit on N7.

No problem, JimBob suggested you, I was going to protect CR.

Yeah since my first to protections I have a chance to kill attackers. It doubles after 2 successfull protections as surgeon. 1 more protection and I'll be a killing machine

PershsNhpios

03-06-2008, 13:13

I understand roleplay Myrddraal!

Though it does annoy me when I am simply despised for writing small posts, and furthermore when I write what little analysis I can from the grave I am then PMed and requested to stop spamming.

Is my speculation anymore speculative than any other musings?

The fact that I trust you here as a player, in the same way many trust TinCow, means that I am slightly dissuaded when you say I may perhaps be making a mistake in my accusations.

But then I see what CrazedRabbit has written, that which TinCow and others believe - and it is rather overwhelming when combined with the reactions of Sasaki.

He really requires a post-mortem examination.

---

But, Myrddraal, let us say he is innocent.

How would you, as his ally in this fight, vouch for his protection and deeds in favour of the town?

Who else should be lynched?

---

Sasaki has been dipped in public relations rather sufficiently.
No one who is active will forget the evidence portrayed against him.

So it is time to listen to other accusations.

Firstly, allow me to accuse Proletariat of being somewhat more inactive than JimBob as Director.
She has not even mentioned her role as Director.
This means she could well be happy simply for the protection.
People have alluded to her role being secret and awesome - but have no proof of it. You all say if the Mafia find out then she is dead.

But the Mafia know anyway, else they would not have attempted to kill her so constantly.

I want her revealed, it seems as if I am the only one who doesn't know.

-----

However, on the subject of other accusations.

CrazedRabbit has voiced concerns over Craterus.

Concerns serious enough to have him forget Sasaki.
This is rather serious then, and in relation to the above accusation - Craterus was the only player to support me in suspicion of Proletariat.
This puts me in favour of those who want her alive.

So Craterus must die today, but this is based it seems upon a whim - CR?

As for Sasaki, we have not a whim, but a sideshow of his guilt.

---

I am very impressed with your reports, Ajaxfetish, and though it is greatly comprehensive I am interested in but one of your, "Musings".

That of the possible existence of a seperate religious force in Fatlington.

Seamus, I will allude here to my past, not greatly, but if it cuts too nearly please say so.

Moros, as you have seen, was what seems to be a Gothic Knight.
His post-mortem brings me to believe only that.
However, Moros was one of the closest confidents in my network, and never did anything to betray us.
Nor do I believe he would have - by god I wish I could write the rest, but I can only say that he told me his role was the;

"Light"

and that there was another role;

"Shadow"

Which operated in an opposite mechanism, one was strongly Pro-town, the other strongly Mafia-in-general.
However, there is nothing to suggest the truth of this in the Post-mortem.

These were my confidents, with whom I conversed and planned with in hierarchial order; (The upper knew everything of those below him, the one below knew nothing of the upper).

Moros, Jimbob
Louis VI the Fat, The Stranger,
Zorg,
Pannonian, Beefy, Pevergreen,
GeneralHanky, Omanes Alexandrapolites,
Several townies - Lt. Pinard for example.

This gives way to little, but you can see how the network was structured, it became this way after everyone pulled together to save me on Day 1.
Moros was at the top, and there he remained - at the highest circle of confidence with JimBob.
Unfortunately, a Don, and a Frankish Traitor Scum were among those ranks, but other than that I usually handled the diplomacy rather well.
I wish I had trusted GH more - but he was my first suspect for the role of, "Shadow".

Note that at that time I included the word shadow often, and called GH himself shadowy. No reply, I gave up.

Anyway, I've included the kind of unreleased information that would be written in a post-game write-up, and it doesn't seem game-breaking.
Nonetheless, please advise me if it damages at all.

---

Well then. Craterus or Sasaki the Mafioso?

I would not trust anything Andres writes by the way.

If you are just joining us now live, you should know that he is scum.

Dead scum.

KukriKhan

03-06-2008, 14:12

The Sasaki v TinCow drama is still playing out. T'Blade is a known killer.

vote: Twilightblade

-----------------------

Tally

Sasaki - 3 - (TinCow, gibson, XehhII)
TinCow - 1- (Sasaki)
Twilightblade - 2 - (Joe Monks, Kukri)

Abstain - 1 - (TruePraetorian)

Louis VI the Fat

03-06-2008, 14:30

Warluster killed Myrddraal last night, I believe.

***

Hiji was found guilty on n4. A townie working with the balloon mafia then? I can’t work it out.

***

I think TinCow made a sincere effort in his accusation of Sasaki. It is interesting, but it is not conclusive.
TC is still under close surveillance for previous attempts at becoming mafia, and Sasaki isn’t confirmed pro-town. Nevertheless, I think both are playing pro-town at the moment.

Can’t the two of you share with us more immediately acute information about the vig group? Who is in it, and who isn’t? Lots of criminal and especially guilty results pop up everywhere, and people have been getting off the hook for ages now because everybody and his dog claims to be in this town vig group. The town is no longer helped by secrecy I think.
Who are the people involved?

***

Norwegian Nerd, what is your opinion of Sasaki?

***

I am inclined to believe TwilightBlade’s account of himself. He did not manage a succesful kill, so I don't think he is a priority for a lynch.

***

What of Gibson? He went killing with the new Stracchi’s. What is he up to at the moment? Has CountArach been accounted for yet? Was he or wasn’t he with the town vig group? Why not lynch him?

Andres

03-06-2008, 14:39

Warluster killed Myrddraal last night, I believe.

How could you possibly know that for sure?

Hiji was found guilty on n4. A townie working with the balloon mafia then? I can’t work it out.

Or one of those unfortunate townies who come up guilty, even if they're innocent? Maybe he was in a vig group? If so, then we'll need one of his companions to confirm, since the dead cannot talk about previous actions.

Or maybe your source of information made a mistake? Or lied?

TC is still under close surveillance for previous attempts at becoming mafia,

Are you under close surveillance as well, my former Stracci brother?

and Sasaki isn’t confirmed pro-town.

Surgeon Myrddraal confirmed that Sasaki is pro-town. You guys already lynched the FBI detective (while I, of all players, told you not to do so :no:)

Nevertheless, I think both are playing pro-town at the moment.

:yes:

Norwegian Nerd, what is your opinion of Sasaki?

And how about his buddy, mentioned in one of the very first rounds of this game... Is your buddy still alive Norwegian Nerd?

I am inclined to believe TwilightBlade’s account of himself. He did not manage a succesful kill, so I don't think he is a priority for a lynch.

Yes, you should definitily let someone who was caught during a murder attempt on a surgeon continue to play ~:rolleyes:

What of Gibson? He went killing with the new Stracchi’s. What is he up to at the moment? Has CountArach been accounted for yet? Was he or wasn’t he with the town vig group? Why not lynch him?

Gibson already told the town that he wasn't allowed into the Stracci family.

TinCow

03-06-2008, 14:39

Out of respect for a great player, I will respond:

As I showed in posts 3047 and 3048, this is false. I never claimed to be the doctor. I found it odd that TinCow would think I was, so I let him believe that while informing JimBob of the truth.

I actually believe you on this. I misjudged your statement because I am not familiar with the roles due to a lack of experience with mafia. It still does not change my opinion of you, however. You claim that being showing up for a protection group means you can't be a Don. The evidence you cite to back this up is... yourself. There has been no Don Role PM revealed, so we have no idea what the Dons can and cannot do beyond the few hints provided in Louis' exposure of Omanes. You personally used the many changes to the role as a major reason to lynch CR, but you expect me to believe that Don's can's show up in a protection group, just because you say so?

2) Accusation: Sasaki was protected by a luca night 7

Fair enough. Perhaps he was protecting you. That's no guarantee that you're innocent, though. He says he thinks you're a townie, but as far as I can tell that's just a gut reaction on his part. Plenty of people have had gut reactions on you. In fact the only person I can think of who didn't ever fully believe that you were pro-town was JimBob.

Sasaki reeks to high hell.

3) Accusation: Sasaki's red text is a lie

This is also false. See Myrdraal's post a few above mine. This alone should prove me innocent.

You claim to share similar red text to Myrddraal, yet when I used that exact same argument (two people with identical red text) to prove that the whole Ichigo special ability thing was true, you come up with this gem:

I find this doubtful. But apparently seamus is breaking the mold on role selection, I didn't expect crusaders either. It still sets off alarm bells of unlikely coincidence.

Sasaki

You love those double-standards, don't you Sasaki?

4) Accusation: Sasaki couldn't wait one day before lynching CR

This is also false. As you can see from the above pm, I was informed that Myrdraal was going to protect CR but protected me instead. I'm not stupid, I can put two and two together. If I was a don I could have had CR killed back then without bothering to try and get him lynched in the thread. CR was pretty clearly guilty but that's another story.

Pretty clearly guilty? Are you insane? The evidence against CR wasn't even as strong as the evidence against you, and you claim to be completely vindicated. Yet more double-standards. If you wonder why people don't trust you, Sasaki, it's because of stuff like this.

5) Accusation: Sasaki had the townie group killed off

Sarathos was mafia and was aware of as much of the list as I was. Several others were common knowledge, some I was not even aware of. Also note that the mafia try to target active townies, and most active townies were in protection groups. I was never aware that Lt. Pinard and LittleGrizzly were in townie groups. If you look at last game I tried to keep my townie group alive when I was mafia. And so on and so on. There isn't any meat to this accusation.

The point is that there is a leak somewhere. True, the rest of them do not point directly towards you. The direct finger came from Cowhead's death, which is discussed below.

6) Accusation: The banner during Ichigo's death points to Sasaki

If ichigo was in the italian mafia how come the killed last night and the rose mafia didn't? How come Ichigo claimed earlier to be in the rose mafia? What reason does TinCow have to claim I was ichigo's buddy and not one of the other attackers? None. I don't know what the banner meant.

Whatever Ichigo was, he wasn't pro-town. That makes him our enemy. Which makes any friend of Ichigo also our enemy. Someone on that hit was Ichigo's friend. You do the math.

[B]7)
All he had to do was give me the date and time. Instead he sent me a pm revealing the entire townie organization and left one of the instances of Cowheads name uncensored. In addition, he followed it up with a pm that explicitly said he'd messed up and included cowheads name and that he was the detective. And then cowhead get's killed and he blames me for it, making a big deal out of how the same night he told me cowhead was a detective cowhead died. Well guess what? I'd been told the name of another detective, and informed who the surgeon was, and who the surgeon was protecting, and none of them turned up dead on the night. TinCow even knew about the other detective not turning up dead. Now, when I saw cowhead killed I considered briefly that TinCow had sent his name to the mafia but quickly dismissed it. There's no reason why they couldn't have chosen Cowhead because he fit the profile they were after. But this really looks to me like TinCow purposely leaked the name to me and had Cowhead killed that night, planning to frame it on me.

Everything you say about the events is true and it is one of several times that I have completely bungled this game. CR, Andres, and GH can all verify at least 2 other bunglings as well. I have never claimed to be a veteran and I have openly admitted to making major errors. I have not attempted to become Director for that very reason: I shouldn't be. I don't even want to be in this townie leadership role, but someone had to do it and JimBob up and disappeared.

The point is that Cowhead's death was extremely coincidental. You don't even believe it can be a coincidence, because you think I was responsible for it. You think I'm mafia and therefore believe that I am Ichigo's "buddy" and sabotaged the first hit on him. That makes absolutely no sense. Ichigo has been a townie target since he appeared on the D8 list that JimBob posted. I wrote that list. I also personally selected Ichigo as the target on N9, when there were other options. If I'm the criminal mastermind who intentionally leaked Cowhead's identity, why was I personally responsible for getting the town after him in the first place?

-----------------

Despite all of this, I will respect the advice of a player I trust a great deal: Crazed Rabbit. I've worked with him for most of the game at this point and he has not been wrong yet. Not once. I believe that whatever you are doing, you are not working for the town. Even so, the top priority is, and always has been, to stop the nightly townie deaths by the mafia. If we can stop those, we can spend as much time as we want debating without any serious urgency. A Don cannot kill unless he is solo, and if you are a Don you are certainly not the only person left in your family. Therefore, I can't see the harm in giving you more time to prove yourself. It's a shame you couldn't do the same for CR.

At the same time, I will not agree to let you get right back to work feeding our activities to other people. I will, at least temporarily, cease my attacks on you and unvote you if you voluntarily withdraw from all townie activities until you are invited back in. There is no possible way for me to trust you, and I will not include someone I actively distrust in the night groups.

If you agree to this, I will make the following proposal:

We ask Joe Monks and scottishranger to prove that they aren't mafia. There are several Mades and Lucas left in this game. Joe Monks' criminal result and scottishranger's history are consistent with that. Unless they can provide some proof or townie verification that they aren't mafia, it would be best to lynch one or both of them right now. The only other person with a criminal/guilty result who doesn't have a known excuse for it is Twilightblade, and he can't kill solo, so he can be disposed of at night without risking another townie death.

This is my current list, I suggest we start working down it:

Twilightblade - Likely a remnant of a mostly deceased family, solo and cannot kill
gibsonsg91921 - Last survivor of the Stracchis, solo and cannot kill
scottishranger - From failed 6th Family attempt early in the game. Has been repeatedly invited to prove his 'rehabilitation' to the town and has always failed to do so.
Joe Monks - Criminal detective result, no known townie affiliations.
Craterus - Unexplained protection
CountArach - FoS from N9 Ichigo hit failure

Andres

03-06-2008, 14:50

TinCow, that is a scummy post you know.

If Sasaki is your prime suspect, then you have to stick to your vote.

Now you offer him to withdraw your vote in exchange for him to no longer work with the townie network :inquisitive: ~:confused:

You should stick to your vote until his defense satisfied you or until serious evidence on another suspect gets posted in the thread.

And another thing: keeping Sasaki in the townie network, makes it easier for you guys to detect any treason from his side. Btw, any sane mafioso who is reading that Sasaki is no longer working with you, will not attack one of your guys the next night, just to frame Sasaki. Also, Sasaki probably knows plenty of your townie guys already now, so excluding him from participation to keep identities secret is a bit late now.

Heck, it's perfectly possible that you are the mole in the townie organisation. You claim to be a Wiseguy. This means you can kill with another townie Wiseguy. Can somebody confirm that he has performed a kill with you alone?

Or are you planning to join Sasaki's family (after all, you're a Wiseguy now) and is that the real motivation for you to withdraw your vote that easily?

TinCow

03-06-2008, 14:53

Andres, you've publicly proclaimed that you wanted to do everything you could to help the mafia win. You'll forgive me if I continue to ignore your posts, as I've been doing for several weeks now. Nothing good can come to the town by listening to you, even if you do insert small (and wonderfully precise) measures of truth into them at irregular points. I hope we can be on the same side in Capo III, because you're a fun person to play with.

Drisos

03-06-2008, 14:57

Oki... too much chaos. Let's lynch a known killer.

Andres

03-06-2008, 15:12

Andres, you've publicly proclaimed that you wanted to do everything you could to help the mafia win.

I also publicly proclaimed that Dutch and I were going to suicide after we got backstabbed by Louis :shrug:

Nothing good can come to the town by listening to you,

If they had been listening to me, the FBI detective would still be alive.

even if you do insert small (and wonderfully precise) measures of truth into them at irregular points.

And I'll do it again now: the hitman is still alive.

I hope we can be on the same side in Capo III, because you're a fun person to play with.

You had the opportunity to be on my side in this game :mean:

OOC: The feelings are mutual ~:)

Proletariat

03-06-2008, 15:22

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 15:35

What's the current tally?

I'm leaning toward Sasaki being innocent, probably a townie. Can anyone say exactly what Brave Sir Robin has been up to? Was he a part of the townie vig kills? Because he comes up guiltyguiltyguilty

Vote: Abstain

Yes he's been part of the townie groups for a long time, and was involved in kills the last two nights.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 15:37

you expect me to believe that Don's can's show up in a protection group, just because you say so?

I'm not expecting you to believe that. I'm not sure I believe it myself. That's what I believed when I sent you the pm.

He says he thinks you're a townie, but as far as I can tell that's just a gut reaction on his part.

It's more than that.

You claim to share similar red text to Myrddraal, yet when I used that exact same argument (two people with identical red text) to prove that the whole Ichigo special ability thing was true, you come up with this gem:

That ability seemed out of the scope of the fatlington world to me. It's not a double standard unless the red text I'm claiming was of a similar mystical nature.

Pretty clearly guilty? Are you insane? The evidence against CR wasn't even as strong as the evidence against you, and you claim to be completely vindicated. Yet more double-standards. If you wonder why people don't trust you, Sasaki, it's because of stuff like this.

I guess we'll see about this tomorrow.

Whatever Ichigo was, he wasn't pro-town. That makes him our enemy. Which makes any friend of Ichigo also our enemy. Someone on that hit was Ichigo's friend. You do the math.

I'll do the math...1/6.

The point is that Cowhead's death was extremely coincidental. You don't even believe it can be a coincidence, because you think I was responsible for it.

I believed it to be a coincidence until today. Your timely accusation + the unlikely coincidence where you leaked cowheads name to me has changed my mind.

You think I'm mafia and therefore believe that I am Ichigo's "buddy" and sabotaged the first hit on him.

It's possible, but if CountA has an unexplained guilty result on him then he was probably responsible and should be a priority.

At the same time, I will not agree to let you get right back to work feeding our activities to other people. I will, at least temporarily, cease my attacks on you and unvote you if you voluntarily withdraw from all townie activities until you are invited back in. There is no possible way for me to trust you, and I will not include someone I actively distrust in the night groups.

I see no reason to do this unless the other members of the group trust you over me.

You said yesterday that all of my rebuttals were "very poor". Today you admit that some of them are entirely true. In the end your claimed suspicion is not based on much except a gut feeling that I'm untrustworthy. That makes certain coincidences seem unlikely to be just coincidence. But I believe that if you felt that way you wouldn't have followed up a pm of mine that didn't claim to be doctor with a pm that accepted that as fact and revealed the name of a detective. Considering you knew my reputation from previous games I find it unlikely that you trusted me that much.

This is the tally:

Tally:

Sasaki 3 (TinCow, gibson,xehh II)
Twilightblade 3 (Kagemusha,Joe Monks, Kukri)
TinCow 1 (Sasaki)

I'll hold off on switching my vote for now. I do think t'blade should die, along with gibson and scottish. I'm concerned they'll join a family or join their own group. CountA as well, assuming your guilty result comes from who I think it does.

TinCow

03-06-2008, 15:38

Sasaki is right about BSR, he has confirmed townie vig kills.

Alright, Sasaki, let's see if we can at least reach an agreement on the immediate lynching vote and the proper course of the next night's actions. Time is running out and we can deal with the rest of this later. I think Twilightblade is poor choice for a lynch for the reasons stated above: disposing of him now will not stop any townie deaths. Let's try to do a lynch that will actually keep someone alive. Twilightblade can be disposed of by vigilante groups without risking townie lives.

We have gibson, scottish, Joe Monks, and CountArach as possible options.

gibson was a wiseguy as of N7 with enough kills to become a Made. It is unclear whether he committed to the Stracchi or not, but very possible that he didn't. At the same time, he has been telling the truth that he has been AWOL due to RL time constraints for most of the game. I doubt he has had the time to negotiate his way into another family.

scottish is admitted wiseguy who by my reckoning has almost certainly joined one of the families by this point. I wouldn't be surprised if he is part of these regular nightly hits.

CountArach has a guilty detective result and has no way to explain it. I also wouldn't be surprised if he is part of the ongoing nightly hits. Keep in mind though, that he could not possibly have been responsible for the N10 Ichigo banner, because he wasn't in that hit group.

Joe Monks has a criminal result with no explanation, but also no other evidence that he has done wrong.

I would therefore prioritize scottish or CA as the lynch target, with the rest as vigilante targets unless they can explain themselves before the next night phase. Which would you prefer?

Ferret

03-06-2008, 16:19

I'm gonna vote:Sasaki 'cos TC did :P

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 16:26

Let's go for CountA.

unvote:TinCow,vote:CountArach

I'm gonna vote:Sasaki 'cos TC did :P

really?

Tally:

Sasaki 4 (TinCow, gibson,xehh II,elite ferret)
Twilightblade 3 (Kagemusha,Joe Monks, Kukri)
CountArach 1 (Sasaki)

TinCow

03-06-2008, 16:28

Elite is another KOTR friend. Not worth FoSing him over that.

unvote: Sasaki
vote: CountArach

I encourage everyone else who voted for Sasaki to do the same. To be clear, I do not trust Sasaki and I am not 'letting him off the hook,' but this discussion has been good enough to convince me that at a bare minimum more time should be spent on the issue and there are higher priority target today.

Ferret

03-06-2008, 16:30

okay I have more against him than you

unvote vote:CountArach

Tally:

Sasaki 3 (TinCow, gibson,xehh II)
Twilightblade 3 (Kagemusha,Joe Monks, Kukri)
CountArach 2 (Sasaki, Elite Ferret)

Ferret

03-06-2008, 16:30

new tally (including TC's vote)

Sasaki 2 (gibson,xehh II)
Twilightblade 3 (Kagemusha,Joe Monks, Kukri)
CountArach 3 (Sasaki, Elite Ferret, TinCow)

Andres

03-06-2008, 16:30

gibson was a wiseguy as of N7 with enough kills to become a Made. It is unclear whether he committed to the Stracchi or not, but very possible that he didn't. At the same time, he has been telling the truth that he has been AWOL due to RL time constraints for most of the game. I doubt he has had the time to negotiate his way into another family.

scottish is admitted wiseguy who by my reckoning has almost certainly joined one of the families by this point. I wouldn't be surprised if he is part of these regular nightly hits.

And let's not forget that TinCow is a Wiseguy himself, who has been in close contact with at least one mafia family and who has already performed enough kills to become a Made...

gibson being very busy with RL apparently didn't prevent him from becoming a Made, eh? Why do you insist on not lynching gibson, Townie Wiseguy Made Gangster Don TinCow?

But hey, don't listen to me. I would never try to convince the town to lynch my own Don, would I? Nono, TinCow must be innocent, because I accuse him, just like the FBI detective was guilty because I said he was innocent.

there are higher priority target today

You waited awfully long to bring up these "higher priority targets"... Or are you quickly saving your own skin by letting the supposed "Don" Sasaki (hey, it was you who had a whole, elaborated case against him) live. Or are you an unaffiliated Made Gangster who decided to join said Don Sasaki's family?

Sigurd

03-06-2008, 16:31

Warluster killed Myrddraal last night, I believe.

***

Hiji was found guilty on n4. A townie working with the balloon mafia then? I can’t work it out.

Are you posting new information dead man? :whip:
Maybe as a punishment Seamus should reveal your source... ya know the last of the detectives.

Ferret

03-06-2008, 16:32

oh and I voted the same way as TC as I have grown to trust him since I joined the .org, he is a lawyer, I believe he is pro-town, and I don't have time to read all the discussion (mainly just AjaxFetish's posts) so I trust his judgement.

TinCow

03-06-2008, 16:35

he is a lawyer

For the record, that should probably be a reason not to trust me.

Ferret

03-06-2008, 16:38

For the record, that should probably be a reason not to trust me.

only in the courtroom, what I meant is lawyers are generally very clever people who can read situations such as this well, but yeah you could easily be manipulating me.

Kagemusha

03-06-2008, 16:59

Lol! This stinks to high heavens.:inquisitive: Tincow, first you build a huge case against Sasaki and then you start another rolling bandwagon against CA, just like that. CA plays in my interactive history and i happen to know that he is Australian. Do you know what time is now in Australia and what time it will be when the deadline will be? Its night in there. So you are now ready to lynch a player that cant defend himself at all, just because a bandwagon showed up. This seems too scummy to me to bare. Vote: Tincow

TinCow

03-06-2008, 17:04

Sasaki chose CA, not me. I suggest him or scottish.

Kagemusha

03-06-2008, 17:06

Sasaki chose CA, not me. I suggest him or scottish.

Its not the first voter who starts a bandwagon.:smash:

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 17:07

Hi Kage, I don't trust TinCow but I do trust the detectives he is in contact with.

Sasaki 2 (gibson,xehh II)
Twilightblade 2 (Joe Monks, Kukri)
CountArach 3 (Sasaki, Elite Ferret, TinCow)
TinCow 1 (Kage)

Andres

03-06-2008, 18:00

Hi Kage, I don't trust TinCow but I do trust the detectives he is in contact with.

Are they of the same degree of trustworthiness as your Made or CR who you were so eager to lynch because you suspected him to be a mafioso?

Nice performance guys. First you dominate the whole round throwing accusations at each other and then you switch your votes to an Australian guy who can't defend himself.

When it smells like scum and when it looks scum, it probably is scum.

I think you are both scum. Good job fooling the town :2thumbsup:

Myrddraal

03-06-2008, 18:13

as far as I can tell that's just a gut reaction on his part.

Read again.

Louis VI the Fat

03-06-2008, 18:54

Are you posting new information dead man? :whip:
Maybe as a punishment Seamus should reveal your source... ya know the last of the detectives.What new information? It's all speculation based on what's in the thread*. You just have to read carefully and fill in the gaps with educated guesses.

Looks like I am right about both Hiji and about Warluster killing Myrddraal I guess. Both you and your buddy Andres are jumping on it...
I can smell both of you sweating all the way down here. The net is closing in on what's left of the mafia. :smash:

*try, for example, combining CR's results with the write-ups and the Sasaki/TC vig group names.

Craterus

03-06-2008, 20:03

Gibson already told the town that he wasn't allowed into the Stracci family.

I think this is significant.

How sure are we that Gibson is not the final Stracchi member? Cos if he is, surely he has to be the Stracchi Don? And being our perennial 'low-priority' lynch target, there's a good chance he'll survive till the endgame. At which point, he can flex his Don muscles and win the game. I'm not sure how other people feel, but I would hate to lose to a lurker.

Also, Andres is protecting him even when he is under considerably little suspicion. We all know Andres is not to be trusted and I'll bet he's still doing everything he can to help his old family.

Also, if Gibson has been inactive, where's the WOG?

I'll vote: Gibson, until further notice.

Now, onto the other point, CR 'strongly suspects' me? Based on a protection? I don't think I'm the only player to have been protected in the game. Also, it wasn't an 'unexplained protection', I've made two posts about it now.

scottishranger

03-06-2008, 20:54

scottishranger - From failed 6th Family attempt early in the game. Has been repeatedly invited to prove his 'rehabilitation' to the town and has always failed to do so.

I dont really get how I have failed at this? I have been in all of the groups offered to me. I have not even been on for the past 5 days, because I have been playing sports and dont have time to get on both TWC and the .Org, so it is impossible that I have been part of these hits.

TinCow

03-06-2008, 21:13

I dont really get how I have failed at this? I have been in all of the groups offered to me. I have not even been on for the past 5 days, because I have been playing sports and dont have time to get on both TWC and the .Org, so it is impossible that I have been part of these hits.

Care to explain this, then scottishranger?

To TinCow, Dutch, GH and Northnovas:

It seems like scottishranger is willing to cooperate. Apparantly, Sarathos is a townie who has killed once.

TinCow, do you have a wiseguy in your network who can team up with scottishranger?

I can ask Tran. If one of them proves to be untrustworthy, we lose nothing. If they are loyal, we win two wiseguys for our cause.

What say you?

Cheers,

Andres.

Hi,

I heard you have a 'neutral' role.

Interested in joining the Dark Side of the Force?

A.
Hi Andres. I have heard you have been recruiting for the various families, and now, well I am out of work. My mafia family in the making has been destroyed for the second time. We just lost our new leader in Xdeathfire, and now we only have two members left.

I think I have managed to throw the town of my scent, what with Xdeathfire now dead anyways. I participated in a few protections, because I had to stay alive
I am a wiseguy right now. I was promoted last night with a succesful kill. If any family wants me, Ill be at their service.

Gah, if only my family had worked out, you guys would have no idea. Anyways, whether you want to set me up or not, just putting myself out their.

Hi scottishranger.

You said you only have two members left. Is your friend also a Wiseguy?

If so, I can find a new employer for you guys. You'll probably have to kill the target they decide. There will be no reveal of names until you become a Made. You will only get to know other Mades. The Dons nor the Lucas will no longer reveal themselves to new recruits (reason: the treason of Louis VI the Fat).

In case you're alone, it gets more difficult. Most mafiosi are a bit paranoid at the moment and are very afraid for having a pro-town player infiltrating them. In that case, I'll have to find another lonely wiseguy like yourself.

If Dutch survives this day (now I know that it sounds very unlikely, but hey, we didn't expect him to survive until now, so who knows, maybe he manages to live yet another day), you can also work with him the next night or, in case I find a second Wiseguy, you can team up with said wiseguy and kill with the approval of the Stracci family.

So, can you tell me: is your remaining "family member" also a Wiseguy?

Cheers,

Andres.

My teammate, Sarathos, is a townie with only one kill.

That does put a damper on things, but regardless, Ill take part in anything you set up for me. If you could find someone willing to take on a townine for one night, perfect. If not, then I can be rid of him easily, or he can try to take get one more vig kill and he will talk to me again.

This took place in preparation for N7. This was after you refused my offer to join the townie groups on N5 and N6. On N5 you told me you were in a protection group with woad&fangs. On N6, you never even responded. Then the Stracchi approached you about joining them, and put you on the hit on Brave_Sir_Robin. At the time I thought you were just a mole trying to work your way into their group, because you were working with Sarathos and I thought he was a townie. However, since Sarathos has since turned out to be mafia, that makes this whole episode far more suspect in my mind.

Feel free to explain.

scottishranger

03-06-2008, 21:16

Care to explain this, then scottishranger?

This took place in preparation for N7. This was after you refused my offer to join the townie groups on N5 and N6. On N5 you told me you were in a protection group with woad&fangs. On N6, you never even responded. Then the Stracchi approached you about joining them, and put you on the hit on Brave_Sir_Robin. At the time I thought you were just a mole trying to work your way into their group, because you were working with Sarathos and I thought he was a townie. However, since Sarathos has since turned out to be mafia, that makes this whole episode far more suspect in my mind.

Feel free to explain.
Sarathos was mafia?

Thats news to me.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 21:30

I think we'd be safer with a couple more votes on CountArach.

Caius

03-06-2008, 21:49

Well, I will trust again TinCow and
Vote:CountArach

Leet Eriksson

03-06-2008, 21:50

Vote Tincow

He is accusing everyone else around him, but i say he is scum himself.

CountArach

03-06-2008, 21:53

Vote: TinCow

To save my own :daisy:...

Leet Eriksson

03-06-2008, 21:54

I like the way you are leading vig groups to kill other mafia familes but your own.

Vote: Tincow

Joe Monks

03-06-2008, 21:57

Vote: Tincow.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 21:57

unvote:countArach, vote:TinCow

A tie would be ideal but this will do.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 21:59

whoah.

unvote:TinCow,vote:Countarach

tie it please.

Pannonian

03-06-2008, 21:59

Vote Tincow

He is accusing everyone else around him, but i say he is scum himself.

I like the way you are leading vig groups to kill other mafia familes but your own.

Vote: Tincow
Vote early, vote often.

TinCow

03-06-2008, 22:00

Interesting play Sasaki.

Caius

03-06-2008, 22:00

Unvote:CountArach
Vote:TinCow

Die, manipulator!

shlin28

03-06-2008, 22:04

Vote Countarach

That should tie it up?

TinCow

03-06-2008, 22:05

lol, Ok then. I've been looking forward to death for a bit.

Unvote: CountArach
Vote: TinCow

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 22:05

Wow, interesting.

I make it:

Sasaki 2 (gibson,xehh II)
Twilightblade 1 ( Kukri)
CountArach 3 (Sasaki, Elite Ferret, TinCow)
TinCow 5 (Kage, leet erikson,CountArach,Joe Monks,Caius)
Gibson(Craterus)

Not that I don't appreciate the votes on TinCow but it's strange the way the all come at the last minute and and save CountArach.

Andres

03-06-2008, 22:14

The tally is wrong. TinCow unvoted CA and voted himself.

EDIT: correct tally:

Sasaki 2 (gibson,xehh II)
Twilightblade 1 ( Kukri)
CountArach 3 (shlin28, Sasaki, Elite Ferret)
TinCow 6 (Kage, leet erikson,CountArach,Joe Monks,Caius,TinCow)
Gibson(Craterus)

CountArach

03-06-2008, 22:15

You also missed shlin's vote on me.

shlin28

03-06-2008, 22:17

I voted CA

Sasaki 2 (gibson,xehh II)
Twilightblade 1 ( Kukri)
CountArach 3 (Sasaki, Elite Ferret, shlin)
TinCow 6 (Kage, leet erikson,CountArach,Joe Monks,Caius,TinCow)
Gibson(Craterus)

And FoS Caius for suddenly changing vote despite first saying "I trust Tincow", and then saying "Die manipulator."

Tratorix

03-06-2008, 22:19

Wow, the more this game goes on, the weirder these bandwagons get. Tincow accuses Sasaki, everyone votes Sasaki. Sasaki accuses Countarach, everyone votes Countarach. Someone accuses Tincow, everybody votes Tincow.

Vote: Countarach I personally think Tincow is innocent, so if we're gonna lynch him we should at least try for a double.

One thing I find rather odd here is Caius's vote change he posts:

Well, I will trust again TinCow and
Vote:CountArach

Leet Eriksson posts

Vote Tincow

He is accusing everyone else around him, but i say he is scum himself.

And all of a sudden

Unvote:CountArach
Vote:TinCow

Die, manipulator!

Quite the 180 in about 10 minutes.

Csargo

03-06-2008, 22:22

This thread is anarchy

Evil_Maniac From Mars

03-06-2008, 22:23

For what it's worth from a dead man, I think it's safest to lynch Sasaki. I didn't read TinCow's evidence against CountArach, but I really don't think lynching TinCow is the solution.

Caius

03-06-2008, 22:23

How do you know that TinCow is really pro-town?

TinCow

03-06-2008, 22:24

Hmm, well if I can help take a mafioso with me, I will.

Unvote: TinCow
Vote: CountArach

Seamus Fermanagh

03-06-2008, 22:25

Voting concluded at or near 1600 (as I was pre-cooking dinner for the kids and the baby-sitter). I have two appointments, so the writeup will have to wait until later. Apologies. Take a short breather.

Prole, please PM me with your directorial preferences. Potential lynch-bait who wish input on the narrative may PM me as well.

CountArach

03-06-2008, 22:28

1600 in which Timezone? GMT?

Sasaki Kojiro

03-06-2008, 22:29

I believe my tally is correct.

Csargo

03-06-2008, 22:32

EST
So about a half hour ago

CountArach

03-06-2008, 22:35

TY Ichi-ban

TruePraetorian

03-06-2008, 22:35

Gah I missed voting! What was with the bandwagon on TinCow???

shlin28

03-06-2008, 22:36

I believe my tally is correct.

Your tally doesnt have my vote.

Ferret

03-06-2008, 22:39

Andres's tally is the correct one.

PershsNhpios

03-06-2008, 22:45

Does anyone else here feel as though they have been sitting in a dark room with hooded figures, and you know some of them are terrible creatures but feel that some are at least good-hearted.

And then suddenly everyone becomes a snake and begins fighting desperately over your flesh?

Thank god, you are actually innocent!

---

Well, TinCow is either unbelievably foolish or he is Mafia.

One thing is for sure, the man who condemned Sasaki for being what he was - a worm - then offered to have that worm shelter in his ear.

TinCow almost deserves to die for that - but that is what Sasaki wants - in any case, TinCow, you cannot blame the naive township for this one,
you deceived yourself and the town.

It's very important.. It's factual.. Sasaki must die - tonight or tomorrow!

Andres

03-06-2008, 22:52

Andres's tally is the correct one.

As usual :bow:

ajaxfetish

03-06-2008, 22:54

Let's take a look at any potentially suspicious lynch voting records, shall we?

On Day 6 Dutch Guy was a confirmed mafia luca. His family was continuing to kill or attempt kills nightly even with Omanes and Andres both dead. Xdeathfire was a known wise guy and killer, a threat but not on the same level as Dutch Guy. The town tried for a double lynch, but vote manipulation stacked it in favor of Xdeathfire and Dutch Guy got off for another night, during which he helped murder Louis.

Those who voted for Xdeathfire over Dutch Guy:
-CountArach
-Craterus
-Dutch Guy (dead, mafia luca)
-Elite Ferret
-Evil Maniac from Mars (dead, wise guy and Prole's attacker)
-Hiji (dead, townie with possible balloon mafia connections)
-Kagemusha
-Little Grizzly
-Louis VI the Fat (dead, mafia betrayer)
-norwegian nerd
-Sarathos (dead, mafia wise guy)
-True Praetorian

On Day 10 CR was lynched in spite of a reasonable claim to be the FBI agent and a request for an extension to prove himself. When his post-mortem comes in, this day's voting may get even more suspicious.

Those who voted for CR:
-CountArach
-Ichigo (dead, presumed mafia connections)
-Kagemusha
-Leet Eriksson
-Sasaki Kojiro
-Shlin
-True Praetorian

Today a last minute bandwagon seems to have condemned TinCow, leader of the SCA in JimBob's absence, and while a controversial figure, still a surprising lynchee, especially with such overwhelming last-minute stacking against him.

Those who voted for TinCow:
-CountArach
-Leet Eriksson
-Kagemusha
-Joe Monks
-Caius

FoS goes to:
CountArach. Accused by TinCow of sabotaging SCA vig attempts, consistently voting for questionable lynchees.
Leet Eriksson. Lurking and for the most part staying below the radar, but popping up in time to vote for questionable lynchees just before the deadline.
Kagemusha. I don't put much faith in Glenn's constant and wild accusations, as he has accused just about anyone with a pulse by now, but Kagemusha's voting record is also very suspicious. He and CountArach are the only ones to factor in all three above questionable lynch votes.

A slightly smaller FoS goes to True Praetorian. TinCow's original claims against him have been withdrawn and explained, but he also has a history of suspicious voting. Also, Caius only figures suspiciously in the latest vote, but his unexplained and sudden complete reversal raises that to FoS level as well IMO.

Ajax

Caius

03-06-2008, 22:54

As usual :bow:
Now, lets remember when Andres changed names and added mithical figures to the tally.

Dutch_guy

03-06-2008, 22:59

Vote early, vote often.

:laugh4:

Something else which made me chuckle:

Well, I will trust again TinCow and
Vote:CountArach

nine posts later

Unvote:CountArach
Vote:TinCow

Die, manipulator!

Some interesting developments.

:balloon2:

TruePraetorian

03-06-2008, 23:03

A slightly smaller FoS goes to True Praetorian. TinCow's original claims against him have been withdrawn and explained, but he also has a history of suspicious voting. Also, Caius only figures suspiciously in the latest vote, but his unexplained and sudden complete reversal raises that to FoS level as well IMO.

Well, thanks for noting that things have been cleared up with TinCow calling me mafia, but I would like to know how I have been voting strangely, if you could.

Thanks, as always, ajax for keeping great up-to-date posts.

Louis VI the Fat

03-06-2008, 23:04

Wow, of all the silly lynch rounds in this game, this must have been the worst.

Can a director vote to have no lynches, or only in the case of a tie?

Thanks for the great posts, Ajax. You are really helpful. I'll FoS your CA and Kage too. Leet is here for the riot, I think.

PershsNhpios

03-06-2008, 23:18

Here are the people I suspect;

Sasaki
CountArach
Kagemusha
Craterus
Dutch_Guy
TruePraetorian
Proletariat

These people have all shown good reasons for being suspected, and all, save the last, are also suspected by you yourself, Ajaxfetish.

Not once in the game has the list run higher than this number, in fact this is the highest it has been because so many strange lives have survived until the late game.

Several people, who I would imagine also have a pulse, have not been suspected by me this entire game - they include;

JimBob
Lt. Pinard
Beefy187
Omanes Alexandrapolites
Sarathos
Leet Eriksson
Shlin28
EliteFerret
EMFM
Caius
Hiji
LittleGrizzly
Ironside
TinCow

I know there were alot more people than that in the game.. But the list is not complete.

Therefore, by checking the history of my wild and stupid accusations, there may be seen some sense in them - and certainly some relation in regard to your own accusations.

No doubt, however, this made no sense to anyone and will be considered simple spam.

TruePraetorian

03-06-2008, 23:25

I can deal with being "suspected", it is Capo, but will someone kindly take the time to tell me how come?

PershsNhpios

03-06-2008, 23:40

Quote Ajax:
"A slightly smaller FoS goes to True Praetorian. TinCow's original claims against him have been withdrawn and explained, but he also has a history of suspicious voting. Also, Caius only figures suspiciously in the latest vote, but his unexplained and sudden complete reversal raises that to FoS level as well IMO."

Generally, it is your overall behaviour, but I think this would be soon remedied if you spoke a little more about yourself.

Sigurd

03-06-2008, 23:46

Here are the people I suspect;

Sasaki
CountArach
Kagemusha
Craterus
Dutch_Guy
TruePraetorian
Proletariat

Why do you suspect Dutch? He seems pretty innocent to me.

TruePraetorian

03-06-2008, 23:48

Thanks.

My overall behavior...well, i have been in Sasakis protection groups very early in the game. before that, i was in The Stranger's group. Then, tincow and jimbob recruitde me into their townie groups. So far, they both trust me...

As for voting on CR, i didnt belive he was a detective at all...i just dont think it was possible to sneak in unnoticed without being a don...despite TinCow saying so. That is why i voted for him...if thats where my main suspicion comes from. if not, well i dont know what else to say really...except TinCow and JimBob trust me..if that helps :beam:

ajaxfetish

03-06-2008, 23:53

Well, thanks for noting that things have been cleared up with TinCow calling me mafia, but I would like to know how I have been voting strangely, if you could.

Thanks, as always, ajax for keeping great up-to-date posts.
My suspicions are the results of your votes for both Xdeathfire and CR, nothing more. I understand that some of those who voted in those lynches did so with the best of intentions. I focused on those who had made questionable votes on more than one of the three days, and you did so on two of them. You may well have done so in good faith on both occasions, and I am suggesting suspicion, not accusation. And as I said above, your votes are not nearly as troubling as those of CountArach, Leet Eriksson, and Kagemusha.

Ajax

TruePraetorian

03-06-2008, 23:59

Well like i said, this is Capo. Im sure every single player has been suspected before. Thanks for clearing it up.

PershsNhpios

03-07-2008, 00:16

For reference on Dutch_Guy.

See Ajaxfetish' write-up.

More importantly, when I was in a protection group with Dutch_Guy and TrueP, the latter answered by confirmations and gained my trust by his wariness and townie-nature.

The former gained my distrust by being discreet and not answering, however I forgot about him when things became hectic, and then new evidence emerged.

Another player who acted similarly to him was Draco Leman, and I think that the two of them were and are probably wise-guys with nasty connections.
Dutch_Guy seems very fitting of someone's henchman.

What do you make of him, TruePraetorian?

TinCow

03-07-2008, 00:17

I keep thinking Glenn's going to hit a punchline soon. Have I missed one?

Sasaki Kojiro

03-07-2008, 00:19

GeneralHankerchief

03-07-2008, 00:33

FWIW, we lynched the right guy.

I know you're still watching the thread and since I pretty much wrecked your team, here's something to keep watch for so you feel like you're still "in the loop" as far as the game goes. Hopefully you'll be able to put aside any lingering feelings you had at my betrayal and appreciate good drama for what it's worth (and even if I'm wrong, you can't post this PM in the thread anyway).

The town is doing a decent job at finishing off the mafia, despite the losses of JimBob and Crazed Rabbit. I figured that if we keep up the pace, it will be all over soon and this wonderful game will sadly be finished. I couldn't have that, not with KOTR crawling along at a snail's pace as of current.

Remember what I said in one of those early PMs to you, about how it would be the toughest thing to do, but still the most interesting, if we started our own family? Despite what you may believe, that option hasn't been ruled out yet. Obviously none of our former group will be included, but considering your eagerness to unite with the Stracchis I think you'll still be rooting for me.

The plan is to rid Fatlington of the last few confirmed mafia, which shouldn't be too hard to do. Right before this happens, the people I trust most in this game - Elite Ferret and TruePraetorian - will all tell Seamus that we're forming our own family. If all goes well, it will be perfectly timed so that we'll be the only family left and the town will be clueless. Then, by using my continued control over the town's various groups, the innocents left will eliminate each other, totally confused as to who the new threat is. Eventually it will just be us left, securing the game for the mafia. That's what you wanted, isn't it? Consider this upcoming mafia victory as something of a make-up for me screwing you and the rest of the Stracchis earlier in the game. The odds of pulling this one off are much better than your previous plan.

You know, being a lawyer, you should know that there's always a loophole...

So, I take it that you're still out to get me then. I'm sorry that you're still holding a grudge. I think Seamus's rules are pretty clear about the subject. If you think you can find one, more power to you. You did discover 3.3 in the Charter, but this is different. Don't ruin the game for us if you can't find one.

I was a bit torn about whether or not to pursue posting this in the thread when I first received it.

On one hand, it has always been my goal to see the mafia prevail in this game and clearly TinCow has aspriations for doing the same, despite his flirtation with the town. But on the other hand, TinCow screwed me and my entire family over.

In the end, my ego won out. I was ideally going to post this earlier but when I logged on (the .Org was ridiculously laggy/down for a period of time) he was already doomed. I decided to post it anyway, just to return the favor of TinCow wrecking the rest of the people in my family. EF, TP: any last words?

And for those of you who do doubt the legality of this, I have confirmation from two separate sources that it's okay:

Seamus,

The PMs I referred to in the thread is the following exchange I had with TinCow:

I know you're still watching the thread and since I pretty much wrecked your team, here's something to keep watch for so you feel like you're still "in the loop" as far as the game goes. Hopefully you'll be able to put aside any lingering feelings you had at my betrayal and appreciate good drama for what it's worth (and even if I'm wrong, you can't post this PM in the thread anyway).

The town is doing a decent job at finishing off the mafia, despite the losses of JimBob and Crazed Rabbit. I figured that if we keep up the pace, it will be all over soon and this wonderful game will sadly be finished. I couldn't have that, not with KOTR crawling along at a snail's pace as of current.

Remember what I said in one of those early PMs to you, about how it would be the toughest thing to do, but still the most interesting, if we started our own family? Despite what you may believe, that option hasn't been ruled out yet. Obviously none of our former group will be included, but considering your eagerness to unite with the Stracchis I think you'll still be rooting for me.

The plan is to rid Fatlington of the last few confirmed mafia, which shouldn't be too hard to do. Right before this happens, the people I trust most in this game - Elite Ferret and TruePraetorian - will all tell Seamus that we're forming our own family. If all goes well, it will be perfectly timed so that we'll be the only family left and the town will be clueless. Then, by using my continued control over the town's various groups, the innocents left will eliminate each other, totally confused as to who the new threat is. Eventually it will just be us left, securing the game for the mafia. That's what you wanted, isn't it? Consider this upcoming mafia victory as something of a make-up for me screwing you and the rest of the Stracchis earlier in the game. The odds of pulling this one off are much better than your previous plan.

You know, being a lawyer, you should know that there's always a loophole...

So, I take it that you're still out to get me then. I'm sorry that you're still holding a grudge. I think Seamus's rules are pretty clear about the subject. If you think you can find one, more power to you. You did discover 3.3 in the Charter, but this is different. Don't ruin the game for us if you can't find one.

Obviously, I want to post this in the thread for all to see as it would completely destroy his plan but being dead and all, I'm definitely restricted. I've read over the rules and it seems like the general gist of the the whole "dead caveat" thing is to prevent them from revealing specific roles/actions that have taken place, which definitely does NOT fall into the above category.

Now, I may be wrong, but I think I can post these. Just let me know for sure. It's much appreciated.

GH

You are correct.

The exchange you quoted was clearly sent to you specifically. It revealed no roles nor did it clarify any prior actions taken by any of the participants.

There is the chance that TinCow could have made the entire thing up (which I will neither confirm nor deny :evilgrin:) which only adds to the general ambiguity in the game which I have always been aiming for.

I suspect there will be some questioning over the legality over your actions as well as the validity of the PMs (and considering your past parsiflage who would blame them? :laugh4:) but you have my okay.

~~~~~~~~~

Hi Andres,

As per the subject heading, this has to deal with moderator stuff in Capo. I received a PM from TinCow that could be absolutely damning for him. It was "special" in a way and I asked Seamus for permission to put it in the thread, which he agreed to:

You are correct.

The exchange you quoted was clearly sent to you specifically. It revealed no roles nor did it clarify any prior actions taken by any of the participants.

There is the chance that TinCow could have made the entire thing up (which I will neither confirm nor deny :evilgrin:) which only adds to the general ambiguity in the game which I have always been aiming for.

I suspect there will be some questioning over the legality over your actions as well as the validity of the PMs (and considering your past parsiflage who would blame them? :laugh4:) but you have my okay.

I just want to make absolutely sure that this is okay before posting the exchange in the thread (it's a doozy). I don't want a repeat of Capo I.

I interpreted the game rules in exactly the same way as Seamus does:

- quoting a real pm you received before dead breaks the rules (mind you, blatant cheating will also earn you a warning)
- quoting a pm you received after dead does not, since it was sent to you knowing that you were dead and Seamus already said it didn't break any of his rules.

Looking forward to this :laugh4:

A.

What does this all mean?

Well, for one thing, I'm done. I will no longer post in this thread trying to influence things one way or the other. I've got my vindication and done what I've wanted to do. TinCow the traitor is presumably dead and his compatriots are soon to follow.

In short, I win. :yes:

Proletariat

03-07-2008, 00:37

Nice, Glenn. Next you'll be telling us the earth is round or that Shaq is huge or some other ground breaking tidbit.

This bandwagon on TinCow was ridiculous. It wasn't clear whether TinCow or Sasaki was scum yet, but CountArach had a guilty result and no alibi. Count Arach was a great lynch.

edit: well i'll be!

Pannonian

03-07-2008, 00:37

Of all the strange claims Glenn has made, his suspicion of Dutch Guy has to be the most bizarre.

Seamus Fermanagh

03-07-2008, 00:41

This is main thread post #

“Announcements, announcements, announcements ,
A terrible death to die, terrible death to die,
A terrible death to be talked to death,
A terrible death to die
Announcements, announcements, announcements,
Ohhh... “
-- Scouting Song

Sunset, Day Twelve

Proletariat went through the counting procedure smoothly. She herself had chosen to abstain before recalling that her own vote was invalid.

<<No harm done at least.>>

After checking the tally and having it confirmed by one of the six officers assigned to her as director, Proletariat addressed the assembly.

“TinCow, you have been condemned by the vote of this committee…”

Two officers quickly pinioned his arms.

“…do you have anything to sa…”

“Of course I do,” said Tincow, "It is completely incorrect to assume I am guilty here…”

TinCow launched into involved argument as to his innocence and Arach’s and Sasaki’s guilt at what a later age would call “spreading” speed in policy debate. As each point was made and affirmed, TinCow grew progressively redder and redder in the face. Counterpoints flowed in a beautiful and intricate dance from his tongue even as his breathing became more and more ragged and his left foot began to stutter-tap as he spoke. Finally, somewhere in counterpoint 19, paragraph two, sub-point eleven, his adrenalin tortured body had enough. His left eye bulged a bit as the aneurysm burst inside his brain and his red face quickly paled. He paused.

“Oh, bother,” TinCow said softly, and then he collapsed into the flanking grasp of Fermanagh’s officers. He was dead before they could lay him flat to “give him some air.”

Proletariat confirmed his death and announced:

“The condemned has expired. This evening’s meeting is concluded.”

The committee filed out into the relative cool of the gathering dark. Another night would soon weave its shroud over Fatlington.

OOC

1. Night PMs are due by 1600 EST 7 March 2008 (2100 GMT).

2. Final Tally (15 of 21 possible):

TinCow = 5 (Caius, Arach, Joe, Kage, Leet)

CountArach = 4 (Ferret, Sasaki, shlin, Tinc)

Abstain = 2 (scott, True) & Prole

Sasaki Kojiro = 2 (gibs, xehh)

Gibsong91929 = 1 (crat)

Twighlightblade = 1 (kukri)

Sasaki Kojiro

03-07-2008, 00:47

FWIW, we lynched the right guy.

I was a bit torn about whether or not to pursue posting this in the thread when I first received it.

On one hand, it has always been my goal to see the mafia prevail in this game and clearly TinCow has aspriations for doing the same, despite his flirtation with the town. But on the other hand, TinCow screwed me and my entire family over.

In the end, my ego won out. I was ideally going to post this earlier but when I logged on (the .Org was ridiculously laggy/down for a period of time) he was already doomed. I decided to post it anyway, just to return the favor of TinCow wrecking the rest of the people in my family. EF, TP: any last words?

And for those of you who do doubt the legality of this, I have confirmation from two separate sources that it's okay:

Oh snap! I'm kind of glad I had time to make my case before you posted proof.

Here's some pm's from today which backup this story:

I have also invited Elite Ferret to join us, since he seems inclined my way. No response yet, though.

TinCow inviting elite Ferret out of the blue.

Elite Ferret has confirmed that he will help tonight and prefers vigilante groups. He will be #4 on the vig group. I am certainly one away from being made and would have been at that point if I had gotten credit for Ichigo. I have confirmed with Seamus that I can reject a Made promotion if it is offered, though I doubt that's of much comfort to you.

Elite ferret prefers vigilante groups and TinCow is one away from a made.

Ok let me get this straight. Are you refusing to switch with either [snip-sasaki] or [snip-sasaki] so that you are in the protection group?

Sasaki

I think it is an exceedingly bad idea for you and I to be on the same group tonight. If we are both on the same group and something goes wrong, we're pointing fingers at each other once again. If we are split up, at least one of us will check out for that night, though hopefully both of us. Plus, I have no proof that either of them is a wiseguy yet, which means all 4 people would have to submit orders properly, risking a failure if Elite Ferret is mafia. TP and I are both confirmed wiseguys and Caius is likely a wiseguy as well, and will hopefully confirm that shortly. The three of us can guarantee a successful hit, even if Elite fails in some manner.

TinCow insists on being in the vig group. This makes it clear that he intended to be in a group with elite and tp. Caius is a bit vague.

TruePraetorian

03-07-2008, 01:04

Christ TinCow!!! I had no idea that you were forming a family, tell these people!!!

People, i have no intention of joining a family! I trusted TinCow, but no...i never said anything about joining a family!

TinCow put one of his trusted men at head of the groups, but i asked everyone if they would allow me to lead them...so far everyone has said sure.

Here is a convo with Sasaki to prove my innocence!! Sasaki, please you must tell these people!

How much do you know about shlin and elite ferret? TinCow said he recruited them today but I'm not sure I trust them. We're probably going to all be protecting a detective tonight, we'll see what he (the detective) says. Not sure if I trust these 2 new guys enough to reveal his identity to them.

Sasaki

Wait now im confused...I am the new leader of TinCows party. I will have you know i hold nothing agaisnt you...so we can possibly team up?

Elite says he has been in a few prot. groups.

I know nothing about shlin.

This is a quote from TinCow:

As you can see below, Sasaki and I are having some serious problems. It would be best if the decision making for night actions was completely removed from both of our hands. We would like you to determine both the composition of the groups and their targets for tonight, and probably future nights as well. Please let me know if there is any information you do not have that you need in order to make your decisions.

Sorry for thrusting this on you, but I don't think there's another choice under the circumstances.

Sent to the detective. Has he told you that he's changed his mind since?

Sasaki

I know the detective too. I volunteered to be the head of the group, and so far everyone says "sure", though i will gladly step down if the detective wants to take over.

Like i said, i know the detective, but just in case im not telling anyone his name to keep it safe. TinCow said "he is 100% pro-town and the only one we can trust" ...the detective has yet to get back to me.

Right. I remember some pm's you forwarded to me now. -- is the rogue detective/webley killer. We have about 6 people in our group now. Elite ferret I don't trust. Keep in mind that whoever we include in the protection group, we are basically telling them that -- is a detective. I think he must be protected tonight, but I think it's a bad idea to have a group of three on the job.

Sasaki

Well now that it is out there i dont have to hide his name from you :laugh4:

Anyway, yes. we should protect him. I am not trusting Elite either...without asking him yet he told me he doesnt want to be in protection groups...possibly knowing they will fail?

I will test him tonight if -- gives me the leadership. if not, then Ill be doing what -- says.

TruePraetorian

03-07-2008, 01:07

And here, i have no relations with Elite Ferret!!!

How many protections do you have? We could use a new doctor.

no successful protects, and as I said, I'd rather be a vigilante :yes: I'm sure someone else is closer to a doctorate than me.

true, but it would be helpful, seeig that one of our members needs only one more protection.

If this doesnt say it...please Elite, TinCow, confess that you did not tell me any of this!

Tratorix

03-07-2008, 01:19

People, i have no intention of joining a family! I trusted TinCow, but no...i never said anything about joining a family!

Perhaps your telling the truth, but we really can't risk that. can we?

TruePraetorian

03-07-2008, 01:31

...even if you dont believe me, i dont care. Those posts can be confirmed by Sasaki...and if TinCow/Elite have any honor they will admit to it too. I am innocent...i had no intention nor knowledge of what was taking place.

EDIT:

I'll be in any vigilante groups you guys want. Though I'd like to steer clear of protecting, only been bad experiences for me (I found out later that I had been protecting mafia :wall: )

Really? who?

And it is so hard to see your name without thinking "Julii" :laugh4:

Kommodus, GH and Tran. I was gullible and new to this game :shame:

How many protections do you have? We could use a new doctor.

The Julii thing refers to a new PBM that i started up disregard that...but this is more proof i didnt trust Elite, and was trying to see why he wouldnt protect. If I knew of TinCow's intentions, then why wouldnt i know Elite ferret? Why would i be suspicious? Ponder that...it is very possible that he changed his mind about myself and instead questioned Caius.

EDIT2: Also note that Elite contacted me...not the other way around. I only sent a PM asking if anyone would elect me to group leader to all those who TinCow sent a PM to...elite was on the list.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-07-2008, 01:36

I don't believe you are innocent. TinCow gave every indication that he intended to create a family and he wanted you and elite in his group. GH posted the pm from TinCow. It makes perfect sense.

ajaxfetish

03-07-2008, 01:46

FWIW, I believe True Praetorian's claim that he had no intention of starting a new mafia family with TinCow.

Ajax

gibsonsg91921

03-07-2008, 01:48

FWIW, I don't. TC, as I learned firsthand from KOTR, is the king of manipulation on a multiplayer level. He could be telling TP what to do, even if TP isn't smart enough to be convincing himself.

TruePraetorian

03-07-2008, 02:00

All he has told me to do was to protect the detective:

Ah, almost forgot... --- is also new to the group, but he was in the successful townie protection on Prole earlier in the game. One more successful protection would boost him to Doctor, which would be a good asset to have around.

TP: This is to you only. Since I am not yet officially lynched, I can still tell you this. Do not repeat it to anyone: -- is the Rogue Detective (.577 Webley killer). This is 100% confirmed. Sasaki knows his identity and I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to kill him tonight. It is important to keep -- alive, so I would recommend a protection group on him.

If they all elect me to be the leader then i will gladly do so, but if they dont then what can i say. Thank you for the trust TinCow, it is important in such a tricky game to have close friends...again thank you.

How many wiseguys does it take to protect someone? How many of the guys are wiseguys? -- is now definatley priority..but how does Sasaki know?

With me dead, the only wiseguys I know of are you and Xehh II. I suspect Caius is a wiseguy by now as well, but he shouldn't be trusted anymore. Remember that that failed hit on Tran that caused me to distrust you? That was you, JimBob, Lt. Pinard, and Caius. I assumed it was you or Lt. Pinard, because I trusted JimBob and Caius. However, it wasn't you and Lt. Pinard's post-mortem showed him as a townie. When I saw that I just though someone must've gotten confused about what happened with their orders. With Caius' strange last minute vote change, he may be the answer I missed. Perhaps he's been doing an excellent job as a mafioso this entire time. Or perhaps he's just under Sasaki's spell. It's hard to tell.

BSR is still a townie. Elite Ferret is also townie, but he's a new person in the group and hasn't been tested yet. Make him prove himself before you trust him too much.

I believe Prole is a detective, but I'm not 100% positive on that. Work with -- , he knows everything important.

Will do.

Maybe i did fall under his spell?? But i didnt know...please you have to trust me...

ajaxfetish

03-07-2008, 02:10

This makes me wonder now, whether Caius' vote change against TinCow was more informed than it seemed to be. TP's PM conversation's mention Caius being brought into the vigilante group along with Elite Ferret and True Praetorian. If TinCow informed Caius of his intentions shortly after Caius' original vote for CA, then Caius would be justified in calling TinCow a great manipulator and changing his vote accordingly.

Ajax

Edit: I also worry a little about the True Praetorian situation. His current accusers include gibsonsg, long ago fingered as part of the new Straccis and quite possibly attached to a new mafia family by now, and Sasaki, who I'm currently very torn on whether or not to trust. If TP's innocent as he claims, this would be a great opportunity for surviving mafia to gut JimBob's organization. JimBob's abandoned the town, and his lieutenant, now dead, had planned to betray us. If the mafia can get the next-in-line lynched as well, the SCA could well be over. I don't know if TP is innocent or guilty. But I'm not going to be too quick to trust those who condemn him. Their own motivations are just as dubious as his.

TruePraetorian

03-07-2008, 02:16

Exactly my point! He never told me...perhaps he told Caius, who after learning of this plot voted against him..but was to frieghtened to reveal any Pm's.

If this is true, Caius please post any PM's of TinCow asking you to join a family...this would certainly clear my name, proving that i was never told of any of this.

gibsonsg91921

03-07-2008, 02:18

I'm not convinced, but there's bigger fish to fry.

Louis VI the Fat

03-07-2008, 02:22

Blimey, so TC did do it again, for like, what, the fourth time now in this game? And right in the spotlight. I think it would've been perfectly obvious who the new family was organised by, but I admire the sheer nerve.

That was lovely, GH. :2thumbsup:

More important though, is the recent revelation about Dutch_Guy and Draco Lemann. I bet Prole is their don, and Sasaki their henchman. :whip:

Edit: just to be sure: the last bit was a joke. Dutch and Draco are dead and buried. Prole is the most innocent player in the game. Sasaki is presumed town.

TruePraetorian

03-07-2008, 02:30

Is Draco still playing? I dont think ive seen him post, but i recall many posts by him in the frontroom (i think) in that music thread.

Charge

03-07-2008, 02:39

He was wogged along with Ceasar the 3 last night, after longest lurking, must have a role then

TinCow

03-07-2008, 04:13

ROFL. I am flattered that you all think I was trying to form a family. After all the massive errors I made, it's gratifying to know that you think I was actually capable of pulling something like that off.

It's been a fun game, thanks for letting me play. Also, in case you've been taking this game a bit too seriously, GH's post was a joke and a pretty amusing one at that. The reason it is legal to post it is because it was made up. If it was real, GH would be barred from posting it. I could not have asked for a better eulogy, my friend.

Sasaki Kojiro

03-07-2008, 04:32

Ok count me in as a believer of TP. He comes off as very innocent indeed.

A close read of the rules would seem to disallow GH's post. It is a fact that Seamus has sometimes allowed a little loose play with the rules. I also believe all the evidence points towards TinCow trying to become a made. GH's pm that's supposed to be from TinCow is very convincing and names two people who would make complete sense and who GH should have no way of knowing about. BUT I don't find TP to be scummy. His ferret pm exchange is atypical (he's speaking in short sentences) but I believe he'd have been very hard pressed to fake the 2nd exchange with TinCow and conspirators don't talk like that. He expresses no resignation but more shock.

Elite ferret I still have no opinion of.

TinCow

03-07-2008, 04:54

At least I now have the satisfaction to know that Sasaki can be as gullible as I have been. Perhaps he is not quite the master I thought he was.

Sigurd

03-07-2008, 09:30

At least I now have the satisfaction to know that Sasaki can be as gullible as I have been. Perhaps he is not quite the master I thought he was.

*cough*

Andres

03-07-2008, 09:38

I'm really disappointed by all of this TinCow.

First you offer us the opportunity to get our family back in business, then you backstab us, because you "always intended to chose the town's side" and now GH shows us clear evidence that you were going to become mafia after all.

:no:

Too much backstabbing and double crossing in this game for my taste. I hope there are penalties for switching sides over and over again.

Loyalty? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty)

Csargo

03-07-2008, 09:53

There is no such thing Andres.

CountArach

03-07-2008, 10:08

Loyalty? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty)
LOYALTY? THIS... IS... CAPO!

Sigurd

03-07-2008, 10:19

I'm really disappointed by all of this TinCow.
Too much backstabbing and double crossing in this game for my taste. I hope there are penalties for switching sides over and over again.

I belive a hitman could take care of the vermin.

Andres

03-07-2008, 10:39

I belive a hitman could take care of the vermin.

The town already did the hitman's job :bow:

Sigurd

03-07-2008, 11:25

The town already did the hitman's job :bow:
Don't be too hard on him... I guess he is out of contracts.
I wonder why the town haven't been able to put forth contracts by now?

Shadow vs. Light ...
The things we know.. but won't [can't] disclose.

KukriKhan

03-07-2008, 13:45

LOYALTY? THIS... IS... CAPO!

LoL. THIS... IS... GRAVEYARD - where the dead speak more than the living. :laugh4:

TinCow

03-07-2008, 13:49

Dear god, people. Read the frickin' rules.

The dead may post, but not vote/select nor carry out any night actions. Dead players may not reveal their roles publicly or privately until that role has been revealed as per section V and may not reveal their “familiy” or role particulars even after that time. Dead players may not quote from a PM unless that PM has been posted in the public thread by a living player. Dead players may not reveal, recount or allude to their previous night actions (or results thereof in the case of investigations) publicly or privately – even to confirm a previously made public or private reveal. Remember, even if dead you can still score well provided your “side” achieves victory. Your participation must be circumspect, but your continued participation IS encouraged.

That PM was never posted in this thread before GH died. The only way he could post it is if it wasn't real. Yes, even the explanation from Seamus and Andres was faked. In fact, GH cleared THE FAKE with Seamus and Andres, and they allowed it to be posted specifically because it was fake. Wake up. The writing style of all four people in those PMs, GH, TinCow, Seamus, and Andres, are exactly the same. We do not all write with that exact same style.

Andres

03-07-2008, 14:05

Oh come on TinCow. When it was clear to everybody that I was scum, I had at least the decency to admit my guilt.

Face it: it's game over for you and your "new family". I know it hurts, but you can only accept it :smash:

TinCow

03-07-2008, 14:14

There is one very easy way to test this. I can simply start posting lots of non-revealing PMs I have received since dying. Andres, are you telling me that if I start doing this (posting real PMs received after I died) that neither you nor Seamus will edit them out as illegal?

Louis VI the Fat

03-07-2008, 14:24

I think GH fabricated TinCow PM's.

Elite Ferret is innocent, either a townie or a don. TC knows this and knew that he couldn't start a family with just himself, TP and EF. I also believe TP that he was not informed of anything.

And why would TC confide in GH anyway? TC betrayed GH earlier, and GH has expressed his resentfullness repeatedly. Plus TC is smart enough to brag after the act, not before.

Not that I would not expect TC to try his luck with starting another family again, but this whole episode has bogus written all over it. (GH and Sasaki? Mafia egging GH on to seize the opportunity?)

But why did you vote yourself TinCow? It was this vote that convinced me yesterday that you had been found out indeed. Why wasn't CountArach hanged?

~~~~

Caius, speak up! Why did you suddenly change your vote from CA to 'TinCow - die, manipulative scum!'
Did you reveive any PM's between the two votes? Are you working for mafia? Did you receive information from townies?

Andres

03-07-2008, 14:28

And why would TC confide in GH anyway? TC betrayed GH earlier, and GH has expressed his resentfullness repeatedly. Plus TC is smart enough to brag after the act, not before.

WIFOM...

But why did you vote yourself TinCow? It was this vote that convinced me yesterday that you had been found out indeed.

Exactly.

GeneralHankerchief

03-07-2008, 14:31

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Come on guys, you really think I'd take the time to actually write those PMs after I've been so far removed from the game and my family is decimated? I'm flattered.

I wouldn't have bothered with this except for the fact that TC hand-delivered his doom.

Proletariat

03-07-2008, 14:34

Sasaki talked you into going along with a fake chat log that supported a mafia family (my own) in Capo one and you had been dead for ages.

TinCow

03-07-2008, 14:34

But why did you vote yourself TinCow? It was this vote that convinced me yesterday that you had been found out indeed. Why wasn't CountArach hanged?

Because by that point I was way ahead in votes and I figured I'd just get it over with. You can ask several people, I really have been looking forward to death, because I've been addicted to this game and it's taking up a lot of my free time and annoying my wife. :laugh4:

I switched back to CA when I thought I could take him with me.

TinCow

03-07-2008, 14:36

Let's test this. Apologies to Seamus in advance. I know this violates the rules, but it is to prove a point, not to break the game.

Louis VI the Fat

03-07-2008, 15:10

Or the PM was real and TC is trying to protect his buddies. EliteFerret / TruePraetorian, or other members of his wiseguy group whom he had plans with.

When did TC send you the PM, GeneralHandkerchief?

GeneralHankerchief

03-07-2008, 15:21

Two days ago, 14:21 GMT -5 was the initial PM.

KukriKhan

03-07-2008, 15:58

Hello Dearest Fatlington:

I have a gun.

It's a pretty little machine. Sends a bigger than half-inch chunk of lead flying with great velocity toward whatever I aim it at. It changes lives - making bodies non-responsive to their owner's commands to stand, breathe, or even think straight. It spells "instant doom" to its targets.

And it is yours to control.

Because I am the Rogue Detective, and I am on your (townie) side.

Through my contacts, I believe that most mafia scum already know who I am - so its only fair then that you know, too.

Also because of my contacts with most of you, I think we are entering the endGame phase soon, where good-guys and bad-guys are about evenly matched, and will fight it out to achieve victory.

The greatest asset of the mafia is not their firepower, but secrecy. And they have plenty of that.

The greatest asset of the town is: knowledge. And our ability to use it to win over the bad guys.

Several of you have approached me to take a leadership role in protection or vigilante groups. As you can see from my role PM (RED portions redacted):

Role

Rogue Detective

Victory Conditions.

You have a choice to make. You can work to rid Fatlington of mafia scum using your own special abilities or you can reject the community and work with a mafia family for their success.

(RED)......(END RED)

Powers and Limitations

A. General

1. Though not a WiseGuy yourself, you can function as part of a WiseGuy killing team without jeopardizing their risk of success. If a family offers you the status of Made Gangster, you may take it, but you cease to be a Rogue Detective and STILL must fulfill your personal business victory condition.

2. You cannot work with a Townie Protection team or Vigilante team – you aren’t much of a “protector” and will not be bothered to work at killing with amateurs.

3.(RED)......(END RED)

B. Day Actions

1. You may vote/select as any other townie.

C. Night Actions

1. You can investigate two players.

2. You can, at your option, kill any one player you have previously found to be “criminal” or “guilty.” You cannot investigate on the night of a killing.

3. Combine with 2 other Wise Guys you can attempt to kill one target per night (after three successful kills, one of you (random) will become a “Made Gangster (Unaffiliated)” and can progress from there). You cannot investigate on the night of a killing nor can you conduct an independent killing.

4. Combine with 1 other Wise Guy or Made under the aegis of a Family and you can perform one killing per night (after three successful kills, and with the permission of the family Don, you will become a “Made Gangster” and can progress from there). You can conduct one investigation on the night of a family killing. You cannot conduct an independent killing on the same night.

D. Investigations

1. It is probable that, if investigated by a Detective or by a Made Gangster, you will be discovered as “criminal” or “Unclear” (50/50). You will only register as “guilty” if you have participated in a killing and only on the night of that killing.

2. When investigating, others, remember that “innocents” include Townies and Dons, “unclear” can be Townies or Wiseguys, “Criminal” includes some WiseGuys as well as mafia Mades and Lucas. “Guilty” includes Mades and WiseGuys on the night of a kill as well as any Townie who has been involved in a killing.

3. You have a 1 in 6 chance of learning the player’s exact role in your investigation (1 in 36 for Dons). This chance doubles for a 2nd or subsequent investigation of the same player.

4. While your sources are unmatched – you mix well with cops, crooks and ALL sorts of dubious characters – they are slower than formal sources. You will not receive results until the 2nd day phase following your investigation.

Role Changing

As noted above, you have options for a role change and can progress readily in that new role. Remember, once you have chosen the path of the Gangster, you cannot reconsider and revert but the person who killed your buddy must still end up dead for a full points win for you.

...I cannot participate in such groups. I must remain an independent operator to retain my pro-town affiliation.

Here is my plan/proposal to you: I have laid all my cards on the table, so that you know what assets you have in me and my role. Now you must do the same.

If you are still alive, publish your role PM right here in this thread, so we all know who you are and what your intentions might be. Some people will lie, of course, but we'll be able to smoke them out. Others won't respond at all. They will then be assumed mafia, and marked for death by lynch or .577 Webley.

I will continue my investigations until everyone and their role is accounted for. You can speed up that process by doing what I suggest: publish your role PM, and briefly explain what you have been doing the past 12 days/nights.

On a personal note: since I'll now be the mafia's #1 target, those of you who are capable may want to form into protection teams for me for the next night or 2, so we can complete our work, and finish off the scummies.

Sincerely,

Kukri "Say Goodnight Gracie" Khan

Husar

03-07-2008, 16:18

I just received secret information that Kagemusha and Proletariat are don and donna. :eyebrows:

ajaxfetish

03-07-2008, 16:18

Excellent! Would you be averse to publishing your investigation results thus far, Kukri, so I can include them with the others presented so far?

Ajax

Dutch_guy

03-07-2008, 16:22

ajaxfetish

03-07-2008, 16:26

Yeah, Glenn's accusation of you and Draco :dizzy2: has been one of the highlights of the game for me so far.

Ajax

Sasaki Kojiro

03-07-2008, 16:45

Role PM:

Role

Townie

Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

Powers & Responsibilities

A. General:

1. Townies have no special role-related qualities at the outset of the game – you are the “salt of the earth” of Fatlington.

2. [snip]

B. Day Actions:

1. You can select/vote as can all players.

C. Night Actions:

1. In combination with 3 other townies, you can form a vigilante group (4 required) and attempt to kill one other player. More than 4 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 or 3 townies participate in a kill effort, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a kill, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt.

2. After two such successful kills, you may elect to continue the game as a Wiseguy, or you may remain a Townie. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

3. In combination with 2 other townies, you can form a protection group (3 required) and attempt to protect one other player. If no attack occurs, nothing happens. If the target is attacked your group will save her/him and receive credit for the save. More than 3 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a save and the target is attacked, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt.

4. After two such successful saves, one of your group may be selected (randomly) to continue the game as a Doctor. If refused, the opportunity will be passed to another member of that group. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

5. If you: a) choose to continue in a protection group without becoming a doctor, b) have never participated in a killing, and c) you participate in a two additional saves, you will be offered the opportunity to become a Detective for the remainder of the Game. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

D. Investigations:

If investigated by a Detective or a Made Gangster, it is most probable that you will be discovered as “innocent.” Remember, however, that a significant minority (20%) of townspeople will register as “unclear” rather than innocent if investigated by a Made and as “criminal” if investigated by a detective. These 20% minorities will not be the same for both categories. You will only register as “guilty” if you have participated in a killing.

Role Changing

As noted above under night actions, it is possible for you to change roles. Once you change roles from Townie to WiseGuy, Doctor or Detective, however, you may not reverse the decision – you have made a permanent change. You may progress into other roles from there as appropriate to your new role.

Night actions:

Night one: inconclusive protection on Pannonian
Night two: Protect JimBob inconclusive
Night Three: protect crazed rabbit inconclusive
Night Four: protect JimBob inconclusive
night five: nothing
Night six: protect kagemusha inconclusive, but not fatal to me
Night seven: nothing
Night eight: nothing
Night nine: kill charge failure
Night ten: Kill Ichigo success
Night eleven: Kill warluster success

Nights 5-8 were when my group switched over to jimbob and left me on my own :shame:

BTW, Glenn, what do you think of Omanes's detective results? Do you trust them?

Andres

03-07-2008, 16:48

Can you post your other role pm's as well, Sasaki?

shlin28

03-07-2008, 17:41

Role

Townie

Victory Condition

You achieve victory by voting to lynch suspicious individuals and/or participate personally in their removal until such time as: a) all of the Mafia Dons, original and created, have been killed and b) the remaining townies and unaligned WiseGuys outnumber the remaining Mafiosi. Your personal survival, though important, is secondary to the overall success of the town.

Powers & Responsibilities

A. General:

1. Townies have no special role-related qualities at the outset of the game – you are the “salt of the earth” of Fatlington.

Red Stuff

B. Day Actions:

1. You can select/vote as can all players.

C. Night Actions:

1. In combination with 3 other townies, you can form a vigilante group (4 required) and attempt to kill one other player. More than 4 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 or 3 townies participate in a kill effort, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a kill, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt.

2. After two such successful kills, you may elect to continue the game as a Wiseguy, or you may remain a Townie. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

3. In combination with 2 other townies, you can form a protection group (3 required) and attempt to protect one other player. If no attack occurs, nothing happens. If the target is attacked your group will save her/him and receive credit for the save. More than 3 townies can work in the same group, though this does not provide any other benefit aside from participation credit. If only 2 townies participate in a save effort and the target is attacked, that effort automatically fails. If only 1 townie attempts a save and the target is attacked, that effort fails and the townie has a 1 in 3 chance of dying themselves in making the failed attempt.

4. After two such successful saves, one of your group may be selected (randomly) to continue the game as a Doctor. If refused, the opportunity will be passed to another member of that group. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

5. If you: a) choose to continue in a protection group without becoming a doctor, b) have never participated in a killing, and c) you participate in a two additional saves, you will be offered the opportunity to become a Detective for the remainder of the Game. You will be given this role-change opportunity only once.

D. Investigations:

If investigated by a Detective or a Made Gangster, it is most probable that you will be discovered as “innocent.” Remember, however, that a significant minority (20%) of townspeople will register as “unclear” rather than innocent if investigated by a Made and as “criminal” if investigated by a detective. These 20% minorities will not be the same for both categories. You will only register as “guilty” if you have participated in a killing.

Role Changing

As noted above under night actions, it is possible for you to change roles. Once you change roles from Townie to WiseGuy, Doctor or Detective, however, you may not reverse the decision – you have made a permanent change. You may progress into other roles from there as appropriate to your new role.

Was in a protection group in 1st night (or something like that) with Ajaxfetish, he can confirm this.

Then joined Louis' protection group for two nights (cant remember the date), he, Husar and Leet can confirm this. Then accidentally led to the death of Louis :embarassed:

And now has done nothing since.