Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Late one night
When we were all in bed
Old Mother Leary
Left a lantern in the shed

And when the cow kicked it over,
She winked her eye and said,
"There’ll be a hot time
In the old town, tonight."
-- Anonymous



Fatlington – Day One – Mid-Afternoon


Fatlington lay in the sun like a huge checkerboard of flat black-tar roofs and light grey streets. The air shimmered in waves off the black roofs, heated by the blazing August sun, tar sticky from the heat and speckled with broken clamshells deposited by Seagulls as they used gravity to open dinner for them. The hottest part of the year and, for Fatlington, the biggest part of the year for the merchants and businesses who catered to the tourists visiting the Jersey Shore.

Six decades past the white beaches lining the boardwalk would have been crowded with “the quality” taking in the breeze and swimming in the cool Atlantic. Six decades had not been kind to Fatlington. Like a courtesan well past her prime, Fatlington still painted on a gay face for the tourists, but these days “the quality” were in Palm Beach or Havana and Fatlington was left to cater to the factory workers of Allentown and every other urban armpit in North Jersey or Eastern Pennsylvania. Like calls to like.

It had been a normal summer until July neared August. Then the outbreaks had begun. Very few died, but dozens were struck with cholera and several others seemed to be showing signs of the Spanish flu. That flu had visited Fatlington just after the War to End All Wars had wrapped up and put 15% of the population into the ground. Now, only a few years after the latest War to End All Wars, New Jersey authorities were quick to respond with a 30-day quarantine. Nobody would be leaving Fatlington before Labor Day.

Tourists screamed about their jobs and needing to get home, the locals screamed about the tourists, and the Fates promptly added a heat wave of epic proportions to turn up the pressure. Atropos, apparently, had always taken an interest in Fatlington.

Mayor TosaInu, away at Trenton for a conference when the quarantine began, moved Heaven and earth to get something done for his beleaguered town, but to no avail. In the corridors of power in Trenton, his most persuasive arguments could not counter one basic truth – it was only Fatlington after all, not somewhere that mattered.

But to some, especially a small group of “entrepreneurs” who met infrequently in Havana, Fatlington had value…once a few changes had been made.

“We’ll have to make a few changes folks!” said Fatlington’s Police Commissioner Seamus Fermanagh. “Hizzoner sent me the instructions just before the phone system crapped out.”

The best and brightest of Fatlington were gathered in the convention center ballroom. The scene reminded a few of them of the meetings from ‘the last time.’ Then, some of these best and brightest had been meeting to decide the fate of others as a Committee of Vigilance. Dozens had died before the mafia had been brought to heel. It had all started with a meeting just like this one. A collective shiver ran through the room despite the sweltering heat.

Fermanagh wiped his face with a handkerchief. He’d begun his morning with doughnuts and coffee for nearly 3 decades, but it was a long while since he’d followed breakfast with 10 hours of walking a beat. The sweat was already through his shirts and working its way through the waistband of his trousers.

“We’re in for it again, and that’s no lie.”

Silence filled the room.

“Tosa and I, well, we’ve been hearing rumors that the epidemics are a put-up job to set the stage for another takeover effort by those eye-talyun scum. Nothing we can act on or convince the governor to stop the quarantine, but the story is too consistent from too many snitches. The loss of the phone lines pretty well confirms it.”

Fermanagh paused, looking over the figures in the room. A wealth of expressions – and non-expressions – played across the faces before him.

“We know their methods now – they infiltrate our best and brightest and then try to eliminate anyone that they can’t convince to join them in their scheme. Which means, of course, that the criminal scum who’ve started all this – who’ve killed dozens of people, many of them paying tourists for God’s sake – are right here in this room.”

Fermanagh paused a moment to let that sink in.

"Hizzoner has informed me that he’s re-instituting the Committee of Vigilance that saved us the last time. Some of you know how this works, but let me remind you all. Today, you’ll discuss and then select a Director of the Committee. Each day thereafter, you will vote to lynch the one among you who has proven themselves to be part of the mafia scum seeking to destroy us and we’ll keep lynching until we’ve ended the problem.”

Cries of “that’s insane” and “Fermanagh, stop the bull___” and one quiet “rats, not again” bounced around the room.

“Pipe DOWN!”

Fermanagh didn’t shout much, so when he did it worked – if only from the surprise value.

“Of course its hideous people, but experience has taught us that it – and pretty much nothing else – works. The director will get a squad of police to protect her or him during their duties – we will select a new director every other day – and of course the Director can’t vote except for their tie-breaking powers. My officers will pass around a sheet with the particulars on voting and the like.”

“Now, this burg is about ready to explode, so my officers and I are going to be hard pressed to keep order. I’ve a few secret detectives I’ve put in place to help you, and I hope they’ll get the information to you about who deserves the chop. But it’s going to be up to you to save us all. Get your heads together and then select someone.”

Only a few heard the muttered, “…pray for us sinners, now and at the hour…” that Fermanagh actually ended his speech with.

It would be a long, hot summer.





OOC:

All PMs have been sent. If you're missing one, PM me.

Apologies for the delay. Lots of PMs…..79 to be exact….


Vote to Select a Director for Days 2 & 3. Selections must be recorded in the thread no later than 0900 EST (1400 GMT) 5 February 2008.


So let it be said, so let it be written, so let it be done.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Let's start this off right, shall we?

Elect: GeneralHankerchief

[shlin28]

Select: Andres

Might as well select a mod :help:

[Charge]

I shall
Select: Kommodus

he's good at finding mafia, and it'd be sad to lose him in first rounds anyway...

[Csargo]

Select:Ichigo

I'm the only one I can trust.

[CountArach]

We should ask CR if he is a townie. Though I'm not great at asking questions without any loopholes whatsoever, so someone else should work on it.

Elect: Fahad I

We might as well give a new player the full Capo experience.

[Charge]

Elect: Fahad I

We might as well give a new player the full Capo experience.But he cant be of much use as a director :inquisitive:

that suggests something...

[Drisos]

Select: Kommodus

Though I must've missed it out in reading rules n stuff, it seems that a director would survive 1st rounds for sure? I recall him pinning down some mafiosi in the past, so agree with Charge.

Plus, I don't like someone who votes for himself as director actually getting the role, because, that's what he wanted? Let's not give 'em that! :P

***

My first mafia game in a long while! Looking forward to it! innnntresting, but very complicated.. so much rules, and so much players :S

good luck & have fun, everyone! :bow:

[GeneralHankerchief]

We should ask CR if he is a townie. Though I'm not great at asking questions without any loopholes whatsoever, so someone else should work on it.

That whole thing died with Mafia VII, which you were a part of, IIRC. :dizzy2:

[PershsNhpios]

I intend to

Select: GeneralHankerchief

One who I currently trust, and who will be a popular candidate for the axe if he isn't elected to prove his worth.

I am paranoid of what will be thought of everything I write!

So I must edit to say I trust GeneralHankerchief because I believe he would be given a more moderate role this time - instead of a largely evil one such as in previous games.

Don't credit my guess too faithfully..

[Tiberius of the Drake]

I suggest that we go for someone who will know what they are doing on the first day so that we dont miss any oppurtunities to get a jump on any potential threats.

Elect: GH

[woad&fangs]

Select: Beefy187
He's always innocent.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Elect: Fahad I

We might as well give a new player the full Capo experience.Indeed. Rumour has it, Fahad, that you have already been tentatively probing players with the intent of recruiting them.

What say you to this?

[Myrddraal]

Since the roles were selected randomly, there's no way of knowing who would be dangerous to elect as Director.

Director also doesn't seem to be much of a good role, since you can't vote. However, it does keep you alive, so for now I think an experienced player sounds like a plan.

Select: GeneralHankerchief

For now.

[TinCow]

Select: GeneralHankerchief

I have known GeneralHankerchief for many years. He has been a good friend and neighbor. I know he will do what is best for this town.

[Csargo]

I intend to

Select: GeneralHankerchief

One who I currently trust, and who will be a popular candidate for the axe if he isn't elected to prove his worth.

I am paranoid of what will be thought of everything I write!

So I must edit to say I trust GeneralHankerchief because I believe he would be given a more moderate role this time - instead of a largely evil one such as in previous games.

Don't credit my guess too faithfully..

This is strange. I don't think it's a good idea to trust GH.:inquisitive:

[Myrddraal]

So I must edit to say I trust GeneralHankerchief because I believe he would be given a more moderate role this time - instead of a largely evil one such as in previous games.

Didn't he say that roles were assigned with random.org? So GH is just as likely as anyone to be mafia. There's no such thing as a law of averages :wink:

[PershsNhpios]

Yes, but Ichigo, you do not comprehend a good idea to trust anyone, and thus you voted yourself.

[Drisos]

Indeed, it's not logical to trust anyone at this point. And I don't think we can count on GH doing what's best for the town either...

am I supposed to think: 'nonsense!' or 'hmmmm, suspicious'

hmmm

:book:

[Kagemusha]

I agree with Ichigo, blindly trusting anyone is stupid, so i will Select: Kagemusha

[Husar]

Select: SasakiKojiro

[Csargo]

Yes, but Ichigo, you do not comprehend a good idea to trust anyone, and thus you voted yourself.

Blind trust in someone is foolish, which means you know something we don't.

[PershsNhpios]

Well, then it is a productive and fine thing some of us are stupid, otherwise all 70 of us would vote for ourselves and Seamus would have to make someone Director.
Then who would feel stupid?

As for suspicions - it is far too early to dearly trust, or despise anyone - given the entirely epic nature of this game, every player knows something the other doesn't, but I love this already!

[Xehh II]

I will Select:Abstain

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, then it is a productive and fine thing some of us are stupid, otherwise all 70 of us would vote for ourselves and Seamus would have to make someone Director.
Then who would feel stupid?

Actually, that would be better for the town.

A random selection for Director is just that - random. Townie method of election is subject to player activity, general manipulation, and prior loyalties/deals made. The chances of getting a "tainted" director, especially considering that the families are the only people who know who are each other are, are much lower when done by random selection. The only way this can happen is if everybody gets one vote.

Yes, I know this logic labels me as "tainted." If you want to go after me for it, go ahead. I'm used to early exits from Capo. :laugh4:

[PershsNhpios]

An early exit was what I thought you would appreciate being saved from - no, not for any private reason, but for the pretext that I have read all the previous Mafia games, and pity the popular veteran player who gets lynched early - innocent or criminal - without enacting anything.

However, even if Seamus were to select himself, he would not do so randomnly, he would be forced to choose an active player for the welfare of his game, and he would be influenced by certain unconscious things also.

And, knowing his history, he could very easily choose a Don for the sake of disaster!

[Csargo]

Well, then it is a productive and fine thing some of us are stupid, otherwise all 70 of us would vote for ourselves and Seamus would have to make someone Director.
Then who would feel stupid?

As for suspicions - it is far too early to dearly trust, or despise anyone - given the entirely epic nature of this game, every player knows something the other doesn't, but I love this already!

When did I say anyone was stupid? I find it strange that you could trust someone so early in the game is all. Though it would be stupid for everyone to vote for themselves, but I was pretty sure that wouldn't happen.

[The Stranger]

someone really wants to be a director... :inquisitive:

[Andres]

Select : Andres

Give me one good reason why I should trust one of you guys :inquisitive:

[Andres]

Though it would be stupid for everyone to vote for themselves, but I was pretty sure that wouldn't happen.

Nobody is voting for themselves. Some of us are mereley selecting themselves ~;)

[The Stranger]

select:abstain for now

[Csargo]

Nobody is voting for themselves. Some of us are mereley selecting themselves ~;)

Real funny :beam:

[Andres]

Selecting abstain seems rather pointless to me :shrug:

[TruePraetorian]

Select: SasakiKojiro

only because I just read a finished mafia game with him in it, and he seems veteran.

[scottishranger]

If everyone voted for themselves, and Seamus was forced to randomly choose a director then it could also be bad. We are better off just voting for the people who we think will make a difference. Anyways, is the Director really all that influential in the long run. Yes he is immube to death, but it is not like he gets an INSTA KILL! on anyone he wants. We need to choose a safer player, someone who is reliable and is known for telling the truth. Then again, since they are random roles, that person could be the Don, but honestly what are the chances that on the first day out of 79 players and 4/5 Dones one is picked?

I say we go for someone. If we are wrong, so what? Its the first day and I doubt it will matter much. If we are right, yea, we protected a good player for a few days and now he can go on the manhunt.

Also, I have been impressed by General Hankerchief, even though I have hardly ever seen him before. He domonstrates knowledge, and if he was scum, then why make a post about randomly selecting people?

I vote General Hankerchief

[Csargo]

Unselect:myself, Select:Andres

I'm not a big fan of GH being the director.


Also, I have been impressed by General Hankerchief, even though I have hardly ever seen him before. He domonstrates knowledge, and if he was scum, then why make a post about randomly selecting people?

To make him look less scummy? Just a thought

[The Stranger]

Selecting abstain seems rather pointless to me :shrug:

since when was I ever not pointless...

[Andres]

scottishranger, you give alot of explanation for something you claim to be in fact unimportant... :inquisitive:

[The Stranger]

If everyone voted for themselves, and Seamus was forced to randomly choose a director then it could also be bad. We are better off just voting for the people who we think will make a difference. Anyways, is the Director really all that influential in the long run. Yes he is immube to death, but it is not like he gets an INSTA KILL! on anyone he wants. We need to choose a safer player, someone who is reliable and is known for telling the truth. Then again, since they are random roles, that person could be the Don, but honestly what are the chances that on the first day out of 79 players and 4/5 Dones one is picked?

I say we go for someone. If we are wrong, so what? Its the first day and I doubt it will matter much. If we are right, yea, we protected a good player for a few days and now he can go on the manhunt.

Also, I have been impressed by General Hankerchief, even though I have hardly ever seen him before. He domonstrates knowledge, and if he was scum, then why make a post about randomly selecting people?

I vote General Hankerchief

because he knows what kind of effect that post will have on people like you... :sweatdrop:

[Leet Eriksson]

I promise everyone TRUE CHANGE, I Have covertly campaigned for 35 years for this change, and voting me will get you this change.

AS SUCH

I Select: Myself

[Pannonian]

Select: Jubal Barca

As thanks for hosting the TWC games.

[PershsNhpios]

There is no need for all this suspicion as of yet!

Criminals are going to slip through in any case in the first round - certainly, and it is a common fault in previous games for people to spend far too long gazing into the words of others for clues when it is impossible to tell friend from foe.

Sasaki, Andres, the General, Myrddraal, and the likes of these are prime candidates because nobody else is known to the public - and no one of them can be labelled any more suspicious than any of the 70 people playing.

However, I am going to recede slightly, as I don't want feuds and bitterness to begin over this simple argument.

Finally, Scottishranger, the Stranger is right - if you praise and support GeneralHankerchief in the way you have done, simply because of his idea to help the Townsfolk, you deceive yourself as readily as though who suspect everyone too easily.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Well, this first director selection might as well be totally random, as we have nothing to go on. That said, I'm reluctant to vote for anyone who wants the role, or for any veteran players who have a track record of scheming skull-duggery, and will be able to use the position to best advantage if they are, in fact, mafia. With this is mind I Select: Ichigo.

[The Stranger]

I personally think I should be major.. if it only be because people always lynch me for spamming... bleugh...

[The Stranger]

i never spam... where do they get it from??? not from me... thats for sure...

[Pannonian]

There is no need for all this suspicion as of yet!

Criminals are going to slip through in any case in the first round - certainly, and it is a common fault in previous games for people to spend far too long gazing into the words of others for clues when it is impossible to tell friend from foe.

Sasaki, Andres, the General, Myrddraal, and the likes of these are prime candidates because nobody else is known to the public - and no one of them can be labelled any more suspicious than any of the 70 people playing.

However, I am going to recede slightly, as I don't want feuds and bitterness to begin over this simple argument.

What's wrong with feuds? Feuds generate discussion, which makes for a good game. As long as it's kept within the spirit of the game, there's nothing wrong with irrationally wanting another player dead. Heck, if you can persuade enough people to go along with you, you can do something about that too.

[The Stranger]

and exactly a reason not to listen to you, pann... because you will just ask people to suicide... a lot of discussion there...

[Craterus]

(S)elect: Andres

If only to save him from alphabetical lynch in the first round ~:)

[PershsNhpios]

Yes, feuds do make the game interesting - but as this is my second Mafia game, (the first being Fimbulwinter), I do not wish the be involved in the first feud that encompasses Capo II!

[Pannonian]

and exactly a reason not to listen to you, pann... because you will just ask people to suicide... a lot of discussion there...
No suicide pacts I'm afraid. Seamus has evidently taken note of my muses on the subject, and banned them from this game as a gamebreaker.

[The Stranger]

good... because it is a real gamebreaker..

[Seamus Fermanagh]

No suicide pacts I'm afraid. Seamus has evidently taken note of my muses on the subject, and banned them from this game as a gamebreaker.

Correct on all points.

[gibsonsg91921]

Select: Big King Sanctaphrax

The director should have a sweet name with a lot of titles.

[seireikhaan]

Select: Andres. Can't really go wrong with picking the mod, imo.

[Moros]

Select: Kommodus.

If he's towny we really should keep this guy alive. The games I've played, I know he was a great Maffia hunter. If he isn't well...better than just random I guess.

And now off to bed. I have a lot Claymore episodes to see tomorrow.

[Chimpyang]

Select : shlin28

Lets keep the voting open for now, lets keep the race for this first spot open without apparently tying it up too early. Don't want to end up with only something like 2/3 candidates left with a realistic chance of winning after only a few more hours.

[Husar]

Unselect: SasakiKojiro
Select: Leet Eriksson

[norwegian nerd]

Well seeing as I only can only really trust 2 people, my self and my buddy. And that neither of us are really gaining any support voting does nothing. The only other person I have RP'd with is countarach though I have no reason to trust him over anyone else. So I will not vote for I have no reason to vote for anyone only a reason not to vote.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Why the change, Husar?

[Proletariat]

Select: Prole Selecting the only innocent person I know..

[Pannonian]

Well seeing as I only can only really trust 2 people, my self and my buddy. And that neither of us are really gaining any support voting does nothing. The only other person I have RP'd with is countarach though I have no reason to trust him over anyone else. So I will not vote for I have no reason to vote for anyone only a reason not to vote.
What makes you think you can trust your buddy? Are the two of you the same person?

[Tratorix]

Select: Kommodus

I don't think this is really that big of a decision. All we're doing is protecting someone from night kills for two night phases. I think Kommodus is a good choice because

A) If he's a townie it's in our best interest to keep him alive.

B) If he's mafia, this puts him in the spotlight where he might slip up. :yes:

[PershsNhpios]

Aye, the seat of the director is a crown of thorns.

When you post here in this thread, it is like viewing a harbour, plain and vast - quite peaceful and welcoming - but home to a great amount of activity and secrets that go very deep beyond the surface.

A paranoid feeling.

[Sigurd]

Select: Husar

Because... he is a likeable chap. :2thumbsup:

[Crazed Rabbit]

select: Andres

He seems less crafty than GH.

Kommodus isn't a bad choice, but I wonder how useful Holmes will be in this game.

CR

[norwegian nerd]

What makes you think you can trust your buddy? Are the two of you the same person?
I would be foolish not to trust the one person I know I can trust.

[Pannonian]

I would be foolish not to trust the one person I know I can trust.
So how do you know you can trust him? Have the two of you compared role PMs?

[norwegian nerd]

So how do you know you can trust him? Have the two of you compared role PMs?

I know I can trust him because the gamemaster told me I could trust him and if I don't trust the gamemaster there isn't much point in playing a game of mafia.
What makes you belive I shouldn't trust him?

[Pannonian]

Guys, methinks we've found our first lynch. Post 68 in case he edits it out.


I know I can trust him because the gamemaster told me I could trust him and if I don't trust the gamemaster there isn't much point in playing a game of mafia. What makes you belive I shouldn't trust him?

[PershsNhpios]

Norwegian, why don't I buy you some red and some white paint, and then you stand still while I draw with my brush, a nice wide bullseye on your chest?

[norwegian nerd]

Norwegian, why don't I buy you some red and some white paint, and then you stand still while I draw with my brush, a nice wide bullseye on your chest?

Well you are welcome to buy me paint though I don't see myself painting a bullseye on my chest.

@Panonnian, why so quick for a lynch? Trying to take the heat off your own guilty conciensce?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Come on lads, no jumping on new players. Give Norwegian a chance.

However, Norwegian, I am afraid the one thing that can save you now is for your buddy to step forward, or for you to name him. Knowing a fair bit about how mafia games are played here, I think this is the only thing that will keep you alive anymore. Sorry, sucks to be new.

[TevashSzat]

Norweigian, sorry to say this, but you're just asking to get killed on the first day even if you happen to be innocent

As for the director, I don't really care mainly because I don't think the director of the first day or so can really make a difference unless it becomes blatantly obvious that a certain group of people are constantly wanting one individual to be the director to protect him

[RoadKill]

Select: RoadKill

Seriously. When was the last time I was mafia. Thats right never.

[Pannonian]

Well you are welcome to buy me paint though I don't see myself painting a bullseye on my chest.

@Panonnian, why so quick for a lynch? Trying to take the heat off your own guilty conciensce?
Well, given the roles in the game, I'd guess that you're a Made gangster, and the buddy whom the gamesmaster told you you can trust is your Don. Or perhaps you're the Luca in the family. You're not the Don, as the Don would know the IDs of his Luca and his 2 Mades.

[norwegian nerd]

If my buddy would like to post hist name his welcome to though that is his choice, for if you truly belive me to be mafia then for him to be my buddy he must also be mafia so if I reveleded my buddy then I would give you a second lynch target which is unfair to him if he does not so wish to reveal himself.

[norwegian nerd]

Well, given the roles in the game, I'd guess that you're a Made gangster, and the buddy whom the gamesmaster told you you can trust is your Don. Or perhaps you're the Luca in the family. You're not the Don, as the Don would know the IDs of his Luca and his 2 Mades.

or i could be a simple tonwie with just a good buddy?

[Twilightblade]

I think that I'll Select: GH as it's the first day

[PershsNhpios]

Given the roles in the game, I'd say he was Romeo, and he speaks of Juliet, (Or Julian - ha!), or something similar.

In any case, Seamus will probably wince when he reads what Norwegian wrote, and we can all be safe in the knowledge there is at least one hidden agenda out there.

HOWEVER.

Being a junior member, there could be something more sinister here if he is another member who changed identity just for this game.
Or he could be a junior member who was very quick to take to the role of Serial Killer.

So, it would be well advised not to vote for him, as he will either be a pitied new member who ruined his role, or a Serial Killer who will thwart you.

[RoadKill]

If my buddy would like to post hist name his welcome to though that is his choice, for if you truly belive me to be mafia then for him to be my buddy he must also be mafia so if I reveleded my buddy then I would give you a second lynch target which is unfair to him if he does not so wish to reveal himself.


:daisy:

[FactionHeir]

meh, select: FactionHeir
Who else.

[naut]

Select: Kommodus

Even though there's no way of confirming his innocence, I'd rather elect someone who if innocent will do the Town good than someone completely random.

[Csargo]

Well, given the roles in the game, I'd guess that you're a Made gangster, and the buddy whom the gamesmaster told you you can trust is your Don. Or perhaps you're the Luca in the family. You're not the Don, as the Don would know the IDs of his Luca and his 2 Mades.

I'd be willing to bet all the family members know one another, so saying he knows one other person who he can trust is hardly a reason for thinking he is mafia. Just seems like a wrong assumption to me. :shrug:

[John86]

Select: Kommodus

[scottishranger]

There is no need for all this suspicion as of yet!

Criminals are going to slip through in any case in the first round - certainly, and it is a common fault in previous games for people to spend far too long gazing into the words of others for clues when it is impossible to tell friend from foe.

Sasaki, Andres, the General, Myrddraal, and the likes of these are prime candidates because nobody else is known to the public - and no one of them can be labelled any more suspicious than any of the 70 people playing.

However, I am going to recede slightly, as I don't want feuds and bitterness to begin over this simple argument.

Finally, Scottishranger, the Stranger is right - if you praise and support GeneralHankerchief in the way you have done, simply because of his idea to help the Townsfolk, you deceive yourself as readily as though who suspect everyone too easily.
Meh, did you read the rest of the post, it does not really matter who is the director. Yes, it gives them immunity for a few days, but then again, so does just not posting for a few days in such a large game. No one will really notice, nor care.

I am fine with whoever being the director. As I have never participated in such a large game or even a game at the org, I do not know the particular tendencies of your players.

Unvote: General

[Xiahou]

Select: Sasaki
Why not? :shrug:

[Pannonian]

I'd be willing to bet all the family members know one another, so saying he knows one other person who he can trust is hardly a reason for thinking he is mafia. Just seems like a wrong assumption to me. :shrug:
Looking at the rules, in particular those for the succession when the Don is dead, it does imply that the Mades (of whom the Luca is one) know each other, unless they are kept in the dark at the start and only informed by Seamus when the time comes. We could ask GH about this, as it would relate to his previous game's experience and not this game's, and thus it wouldn't be technically breaking any rules. Perhaps Seamus can clarify this point.

One option would be for norwegian's buddy to step up, for both of them to state their roles and their relation to each other, and for us to lynch one of them. If the investigation proves they were telling the truth, then the other will be a confirmed pro-townie who can be protected for the rest of the game. And given that players are supposed to play for a team win, sacrificing one townie in order to guarantee the innocence of the other should be a price worth paying, especially since townies can upgrade once they've participated in enough night actions.

But if norwegian is unwilling to open up, then the best course would be to lynch him, given what we know of the game.

[PershsNhpios]

Norwegian.... Count Arach would not happen to be this friend of yours, would he?

You are not a new player, given your previous posts on the forum here, but have joined for the sake of playing Mafia.
So you do know more than it was first reckoned, and you also, rightfully, should know better than to so blatantly hint at your role.

I don't credit anything you have said, and I shall not vote for you on any matter.


Pannonian, the odds of him being a Serial Killer are as even as any, if he were one, and an intelligent one, he would act in a way which would have him surely lynched.

[norwegian nerd]

No countarch is not my buddy, He posted on a differnt forum to gauge interst in this mafia game
http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?showtopic=13625 True, I joined to play mafia but you can ask Countarch how often we play mafia on the forum I came from.

As to my buddy, it is not my place to say.

[Joe Monks]

Hey :)

I got interested in playing Mafia from reading two of general handkerchiefs mafia games.

So Select:GeneralHandkerchief.

Joe

[CountArach]

That whole thing died with Mafia VII, which you were a part of, IIRC. :dizzy2:
Yes I remember that and I was his scum-buddy I believe.He found a loop-hole in the statement. If we can make a loop-hole-less statement then we are fine.

As to knowing norwegian nerd - we have met on another forum, as he implied.
EDIT: Just read back over his comments and I must say... I don't know why he trusts me... I know that I certainly don't trust him...

After looking back over the rules that the Director has, I choose to change my vote for Director:
Unselect: Farad
Select: Kommodus
I missed the last little bit that made them immune to killings, something that might help keep Kommo alive.

[seireikhaan]

Yes I remember that and I was his scum-buddy I believe.He found a loop-hole in the statement. If we can make a loop-hole-less statement then we are fine.
Trouble is, making sure that its free of loopholes. His loophole in that game was as tiny as the difference between Mafia and mafia(first letter). Frankly, I don't trust any question we can come up with, as he'll(if he's mafia) somehow find a loophole around it.

[Csargo]

Looking at the rules, in particular those for the succession when the Don is dead, it does imply that the Mades (of whom the Luca is one) know each other, unless they are kept in the dark at the start and only informed by Seamus when the time comes. We could ask GH about this, as it would relate to his previous game's experience and not this game's, and thus it wouldn't be technically breaking any rules. Perhaps Seamus can clarify this point.

One option would be for norwegian's buddy to step up, for both of them to state their roles and their relation to each other, and for us to lynch one of them. If the investigation proves they were telling the truth, then the other will be a confirmed pro-townie who can be protected for the rest of the game. And given that players are supposed to play for a team win, sacrificing one townie in order to guarantee the innocence of the other should be a price worth paying, especially since townies can upgrade once they've participated in enough night actions.

But if norwegian is unwilling to open up, then the best course would be to lynch him, given what we know of the game.

You may be right, but it still doesn't make sense for norwegian to come out like that if he is mafia. Though it begs the question, why aren't you questioning why Glenn seems to trust GH for no apparent reason? Why are you just going after norwegian? Why focus on one person when you have so many other people to question? It doesn't make any sense in my opinion.

[norwegian nerd]

Yes I remember that and I was his scum-buddy I believe.He found a loop-hole in the statement. If we can make a loop-hole-less statement then we are fine.

As to knowing norwegian nerd - we have met on another forum, as he implied.
EDIT: Just read back over his comments and I must say... I don't know why he trusts me... I know that I certainly don't trust him...

After looking back over the rules that the Director has, I choose to change my vote for Director:
Unselect: Farad
Select: Kommodus
I missed the last little bit that made them immune to killings, something that might help keep Kommo alive.


I never said I trusted you... I said I knew who you where.

[Kommodus]

Select: Ichigo

Since at this point everyone is equally trustworthy (and equally untrustworthy), I'm picking someone whose instincts and experience have proven quality.

[Pannonian]

You may be right, but it still doesn't make sense for norwegian to come out like that if he is mafia. Though it begs the question, why aren't you questioning why Glenn seems to trust GH for no apparent reason? Why are you just going after norwegian? Why focus on one person when you have so many other people to question? It doesn't make any sense in my opinion.
Because norwegian's stated that he knows the ID of another player, in a game where by default townies don't know who each other are? Go back a couple of pages and you'll find a post by norwegian that said that he doesn't trust anyone except his buddy, which prompted me to probe him further, which eventually led to that damning statement. We've seen blunders like this before, like Kralizec's in Capo 1 that led us to Beirut, with the difference being that I caught norwegian's post and quoted it so it can't be denied later.


Trouble is, making sure that its free of loopholes. His loophole in that game was as tiny as the difference between Mafia and mafia(first letter). Frankly, I don't trust any question we can come up with, as he'll(if he's mafia) somehow find a loophole around it.
And more to the point, as I said even before M7, staking his truthfulness takes the fun out of the game.

[norwegian nerd]

Even if you hadn't quoted it, I wouldn't have edited it. I have nothing to hide.

[Drisos]

Selecting abstain seems rather pointless to me :shrug:

it's just to prove they're not lurkers :P hehe :P


since when was I ever not pointless...

:laugh4:


I know I can trust him because the gamemaster told me I could trust him and if I don't trust the gamemaster there isn't much point in playing a game of mafia.
What makes you belive I shouldn't trust him?

this indeed seems rather indicating for a mafia role.. of course, I don't know all kinds of pm's sent to the different roles, but when I compare mine to what norwegian nerd sais about his, he must be some kind of guilty, probably..

and ichigo, I can see why pannonian is going after this and not after the stuff around director selection.. this is more serious. at least, it seems. director selection seems abstract, and a slight addition to the game with few importance. voting randomly isn't normally suspicious because of this light nature.. but of course it's possible that mafia will use it to their advantage.

I must say though, I'd much rather lynch NN then Glenn now.

[ajaxfetish]

Well, since I have no past experience to guide me, and it still seems mostly a random decision,

select: Andres

Let Chaos Reign.

Ajax

[taka]

select: kommodus

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I intend to

Select: GeneralHankerchief

One who I currently trust, and who will be a popular candidate for the axe if he isn't elected to prove his worth.

I am paranoid of what will be thought of everything I write!

So I must edit to say I trust GeneralHankerchief because I believe he would be given a more moderate role this time - instead of a largely evil one such as in previous games.

Don't credit my guess too faithfully..

History shows us that mafia often tries to get their own elected as director. Two things about this post:

He is paranoid about his posts, and edited it to add reason. Mafiosos are more paranoid than townies. His reasoning for selection is also bogus as has been pointed out.


If everyone voted for themselves, and Seamus was forced to randomly choose a director then it could also be bad. We are better off just voting for the people who we think will make a difference. Anyways, is the Director really all that influential in the long run. Yes he is immube to death, but it is not like he gets an INSTA KILL! on anyone he wants. We need to choose a safer player, someone who is reliable and is known for telling the truth. Then again, since they are random roles, that person could be the Don, but honestly what are the chances that on the first day out of 79 players and 4/5 Dones one is picked?

I say we go for someone. If we are wrong, so what? Its the first day and I doubt it will matter much. If we are right, yea, we protected a good player for a few days and now he can go on the manhunt.

Also, I have been impressed by General Hankerchief, even though I have hardly ever seen him before. He domonstrates knowledge, and if he was scum, then why make a post about randomly selecting people?

I vote General Hankerchief

Scottish ranger also uses scummy reasoning and lots of unnecessary explanation for a vote for GH. These two stand out to me from all the nominations of GH.

I would go for Kommodus but he noted in the last game that holmes has trouble here because of the multiple mafia factions. So I will Select: Sasaki. If someone could do a tally it would be sweet.


Guys, methinks we've found our first lynch. Post 68 in case he edits it out.

I agree.

[KukriKhan]

You know, Rick, I have many a friend in Casablanca, but somehow, just because you despise me, you are the only one I trust. ...


Select: Louis VI the Fat.

https://jimcee.homestead.com/Casablanca36.jpg

I do not despise him, nor think he does me, but he's the first CdtC2 player to PM me wishing me good luck. Plus, his nick resembles our setting (Fatlington), plus I've always imagined he looked and acted as Captain Renault in that movie - quick-witted, a little corrupt, but ultimately fair-minded, with the overall good of the community his ultimate goal... a fine random selection for our first Director, in my random opinion.

[Csargo]

Because norwegian's stated that he knows the ID of another player, in a game where by default townies don't know who each other are? Go back a couple of pages and you'll find a post by norwegian that said that he doesn't trust anyone except his buddy, which prompted me to probe him further, which eventually led to that damning statement. We've seen blunders like this before, like Kralizec's in Capo 1 that led us to Beirut, with the difference being that I caught norwegian's post and quoted it so it can't be denied later.

You're probably right, but we'll have to wait until Day 2 to lynch him and see. I'm still not sure what to think of his post, but I doubt he's mafia honestly.


and ichigo, I can see why pannonian is going after this and not after the stuff around director selection.. this is more serious. at least, it seems. director selection seems abstract, and a slight addition to the game with few importance.

The director is guaranteed two rounds without being able to die. I think that's a pretty good reason to care about who selects who.

[Pannonian]

Select: Louis VI the Fat.

I do not despise him, nor think he does me, but he's the first CdtC2 player to PM me wishing me good luck. Plus, his nick resembles our setting (Fatlington), plus I've always imagined he looked and acted as Captain Renault in that movie - quick-witted, a little corrupt, but ultimately fair-minded, with the overall good of the community his ultimate goal... a fine random selection for our first Director, in my random opinion.
Is this a meatball which I see before me
The spaghetti toward my hand?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Select: Kommodus

[Hannibalbarc]

Even if you hadn't quoted it, I wouldn't have edited it. I have nothing to hide.
We are not allowed to edit our posts, are we?
I don't have much experience in mafia so I'll just, Select:Andres

[PershsNhpios]

Sasaki has shown that he is always probing of everyone's statements in all cases, and there are many times he was innocent and many times he was guilty and deceived everyone.
Therefore he is dangerous - yet I do not suspect him of anything.

I am, I admit, annoyed that after I joked and said I was paranoid and tried to give good reasoning for voting GH, mainly because I felt sorry for him, that someone still picked something in this to try and turn the light upon me.

Such attention is unwanted in any role.

I would ask what everyone here would have me do to avoid suspicion that Hankerchief and I are connected in this game in anyway, but until someone suggests - I will simply change my vote.

Deselect: GeneralHankerchief

Select: True Praetorian

[pevergreen]

Louis also PM'd me wishing me well, but i feel i must Elect: Pannonian

It will ease my thoughts after last game. He still hasnt accepted my apology over his forced suicide.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Scummy scummy scummy. I don't see how anyone can read your first post and come away with the impression that you were joking when you said you were paranoid (funny that you claim this after I say paranoia is a scumtell). You also said that you were voting for GH because you "trusted him" not because you felt sorry for him. It looks like you were selecting a scum buddy for director, made up some reasoning (as you say "tried to give good reasoning for voting GH") and now are trying to change that.


I'm going to vote to lynch glenn tomorrow.

Here's his first post for reference:



I intend to

Select: GeneralHankerchief

One who I currently trust, and who will be a popular candidate for the axe if he isn't elected to prove his worth.

I am paranoid of what will be thought of everything I write!

So I must edit to say I trust GeneralHankerchief because I believe he would be given a more moderate role this time - instead of a largely evil one such as in previous games.

Don't credit my guess too faithfully..

[CountArach]

We are not allowed to edit our posts, are we?
I don't have much experience in mafia so I'll just, Select:Andres
Yes we are able to edit our posts. Its just that if you do it people may take it as a sign that you edited something out and as such have something to hide. You also should never rule out that someone saw what the post was like before you edited it.

[Lt. Pinard]

Select: Kommodus.

Why not

[CountArach]

Select: Kommodus.

Why not
Bold your votes, it helps.

[Pannonian]

Louis also PM'd me wishing me well, but i feel i must Elect: Pannonian

It will ease my thoughts after last game. He still hasnt accepted my apology over his forced suicide.
No hard feelings mate.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Looking at the rules, in particular those for the succession when the Don is dead, it does imply that the Mades (of whom the Luca is one) know each other, unless they are kept in the dark at the start and only informed by Seamus when the time comes. We could ask GH about this, as it would relate to his previous game's experience and not this game's, and thus it wouldn't be technically breaking any rules. Perhaps Seamus can clarify this point.

A Mafia family starts play with 1 Don, 1 Luca, and 1 Made. All 5 families are in play.

[Lord Winter]

Derictor has some power, first of all it can protect a Don from the wrath of the town and also provides a good exscuse for staying alive. They also have a fair amount of influence in the voting selection. Even if a twonie dies its not a huge lose to the town (as long as they arn't power town), as they can still add to the debate. So the mafia have a preaty big advantage in trying to get one of there own in there. Look at the Godfather I where the role was introduced, GH was scum and got elected for basiclly the whole game. From there he was able to manipulate the town making it so all of his teammates survived. It was a crushing victory.

That being said you can see why have some distrust for GH or any really strong player getting the post, its just to dangerous in expert hands. Kommodus is two fold as Holmes it self would be preaty esay to use to manipulate the town. That being said inexperianced supicous player is better off in office then an expert suspicous player.

So I'm going to go with one of the noobs, chosen at random,

Select: Chimpyang

[pevergreen]

I would encourage a newer member to the director position.

All I can remember is GH getting killed night 1 after selecting me. Got attacked for selecting a newbie. :laugh4:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Bold your votes, it helps.A Lot!

Current Tally for Director:

Kommodus - 10 (BSR, Charge, CA, Drisos, EMM, Hiji, LtP, Moros, Ry, taka)

Andres - 8 (ajax, Andres, Craterus, CR, hb, Ichi, Kami, shlin)

GH - 6 (GH, Joe, Myrd, TotD, Tin, Tb)

Sasaki - 4 (Husar, Sasaki, True, Xiahou)

Several with 1 or 2 votes.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, I'm logging off for the night. A couple of quick hits before I go:

- From what I recall, Kommodus sucks as mafia. Putting him in the spotlight might not be such a bad idea.

- The question is now, do I change my vote from myself to Kommodus? After all, one can get hit both ways for this. If I keep my vote on me, I get blasted for not following above logic, people saying I'm scummy, and saying that my impending "well, the logic is sound, but I'd still rather it be me because I'm the only one I can trust" defense is weak.

- On the other hand, considering my last long post ("everybody, vote for yourselves!"), they'd say I'm a flip-flopper and that's scummy. Finally, considering that several people are under fire for selecting me (never mind that Seamus just posted that the initial families get two people they know and I have roughly six votes :rolleyes2:), backing off and voting someone else would also be considered scummy.

Ahh, Capo.

Anyway, I'd rather be hit with the allegations coming from my first choice, so I'm leaving my vote on me right now.

G'night.

[PershsNhpios]

Either you are putting me under as much pressure as possible to determine my role, Sasaki, or you consider me a personal threat to your own safety and so refuse to see any innocence in whatever I say.

At this rate, if anybody shows any affection for anyone in this thread, they will have given - apparently - sufficient evidence for a lynching.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You haven't responded to the meat of my accusation.

Why would I have considered you a personal threat?


Finally, considering that several people are under fire for selecting me (never mind that Seamus just posted that the initial families get two people they know and I have roughly six votes ),

The number of votes for you is irrelevant, it is the manner in which those votes are made that is important.

[Csargo]

Either you are putting me under as much pressure as possible to determine my role, Sasaki, or you consider me a personal threat to your own safety and so refuse to see any innocence in whatever I say.

At this rate, if anybody shows any affection for anyone in this thread, they will have given - apparently - sufficient evidence for a lynching.

There's no innocence in anything you say. It seems like you're trying to save yourself from a mistake you made.

[johnhughthom]

Select Andres

May as well keep the voting tight.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Select Andres

May as well keep the voting tight.

Why is that?


Scratch that question, let's keep talking about how Glenn is guilty.

[Tran]

Select: Andres

[Makanyane]

Gah, confused, I thought initially better to choose one of the really experienced / devious guys to see if they reveal something about their role so we know whether to lynch / protect later. But strikes me now that it could be too dangerous if they are bad guy and get to manipulate early stages, also some of reasons given for selections so far look a bit dodgy.

Select: The Stranger
partly random, partly sympathy vote as people in sign up thread seemed to want to lynch him on name, though with current voting pattern that probably equals abstain, which was second favourite option.....

might change mind if more compelling reasoning comes up before deadline :confused:

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Select: Abstain.

[Beefy187]

Select: Beefy187
He's always innocent.

Thanks but ive been mafia about 2wice.. :sweatdrop: But i am innocent this time.

Select: Andres

Ill rely on someone to protect Holmes. I dont think it comes handy when we got 80 peoples playing and some new comers with unknown play style. I think Andres should be the leader for 3 days and Kommodus can take over later.

[PershsNhpios]

Well, this is a very obvious bandwagoning attempt by a mafioso, and as such I don't think there is no damning evidence to convict me - but Sasaki is instead by constantly questioning me and abandoning others - trying to desolve evidence from what I say in my, 'defence'.

Remember, this is an attempt at a lynch far before the correct day, and with a pretext of my first vote of the game - let alone my first post.

Sasaki is a grand detective if he can decide a Mafioso from the first thing he writes.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Select: Kommodus

We've got to start somewhere, and Kommodus mafia hunting skills could come in handy. Or at least if he's not a mafioso or ends up killed in the first round. Pannonion may also be an advisable director target later on in the game - both of them are extremely brilliant mafia hunters.

On another note, I don't like Glenn's rather paranoid and defensive stance - repetitively shouting from the rooftops "I am a townie" probably means you aren't. I'm a little weary of it, since it seems fairly excessive. Of course, this can be simply dismissed because you are are relatively inexperienced player, but it should possibly be monitored.

[Sarathos]

Im going to have to Select:Andres because he is a moderator and can handle the shame responsibility. :dozey:

[Warluster]

Select: Kommodus


I always remember Kommodus being superb in rooting out mafia. I think he is worth somehwat 'protecting' for the night, and will be good for weeding the ground of mafia.

[Zorg]

Wow, this topic has gone quickly getting back from school I had to read through 5 pages :stars:. Anyway so far, as has been pointed out numerous times, there is really nothing to go on or anyone to trust so far. Selecting myself, no-one or someone with few votes will really have no affect at all. With that in mind, I'm going to Elect: Andres. I'm a fairly new player here and don't know peoples histories, and Andres is just as likely scum as anyone else but as a moderator I think he will do a competent job as director if he isn't scum.

As for the topic so far, I think norwegian has been incredibly scummy however not nessecarily so. I think that Pannonian is completely correct when he said:


Looking at the rules, in particular those for the succession when the Don is dead, it does imply that the Mades (of whom the Luca is one) know each other, unless they are kept in the dark at the start and only informed by Seamus when the time comes. We could ask GH about this, as it would relate to his previous game's experience and not this game's, and thus it wouldn't be technically breaking any rules. Perhaps Seamus can clarify this point.

One option would be for norwegian's buddy to step up, for both of them to state their roles and their relation to each other, and for us to lynch one of them. If the investigation proves they were telling the truth, then the other will be a confirmed pro-townie who can be protected for the rest of the game. And given that players are supposed to play for a team win, sacrificing one townie in order to guarantee the innocence of the other should be a price worth paying, especially since townies can upgrade once they've participated in enough night actions.

But if norwegian is unwilling to open up, then the best course would be to lynch him, given what we know of the game.

Thats what I currently feel about the situation, however I'd just like to add that we shouldn't rule out the situation where norwegian has a secret role, or some sort of special rules. From the way he talks about his friend as a "buddy" I don't instinctively feel he is talking about a don, I get the feeling it is someone who is his equal. But in any case, the system that Pannonian set out sounds like the most logical to me.

If Norwegian won't give us more details about his "buddy", then I'm prepared to vote for his lynch tomorrow.

[PershsNhpios]

Very good Zorg, a nice write up!

Thankfully someone agrees with me on how dark it is in here for anyone to be shouting names yet.
Norwegian should be given a fair chance to respond, though I think he has done more damage to himself than we can do to him.

I doubt very much he is in a family, and thought it was a secret role bestowed on him myself.

However, as I also pointed out, he HAS played this before - why would a player who could even be a veteran do such an obvious thing?
Before deciding to lynch him, let him speak again - because I think there is a chance he is a Serial Killer, no reason why such a role would not be included.

He could easily type something dull and suspicious and have everyone vote for him, then continue on a killing spree, ( I admit I only know the basics of a serial killer's rules - but that is the general purpose of it).
As to his allegiance, no speculation can fairly be made.

If you want to survive Norwegian, it is certainly time you found your voice again.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I dislike the idea of townie groups being formed at the stage where everything is shrouded in mystery.

Dons/Mades could be trying to infiltrate, and may even be the ones establishing them, hoping to manipulate the unsuspecting innocents to their will. Of course a certain level of risk has to be taken, but when nobody knows anybody else's true intentions it can be dangerous.

Next day phase, I say we target norwegian nerd with the hope of pressuring him into speaking about his partner. Then we can interrogate this partner into revealing more about himself. I doubt norwegian nerd is a mafioso, although this partner has a chance of being one.

[pevergreen]

Get him! He's trying to use logic!
Zorg is instantly lynched. He was townie
I hope you remember that Zorg.

[Zorg]

I do it, but online mafia games are just a tad more sophisticated than 2 minute long ones at lunch ~;) .

[Drisos]

Unselect: SasakiKojiro
Select: Leet Eriksson

Why? Got different orders from the boss now? This change wasn't going to change anything in the election anymore.. suspiciouss...

AH, so Kommodus might actually become director.. nice..

now I must say, I'm stilly more suspicious of norwegian nerd than of 'Glenn'.. he might have a feeling for saying things the wrong say so that they are interpreted wrong, but I must admit it sounds suspicious here and there.

on the other hand.. one thing I remember from my last mafia game.. never trust sasaki. :P

[Andres]

Okay, I'm logging off for the night. A couple of quick hits before I go:

- From what I recall, Kommodus sucks as mafia. Putting him in the spotlight might not be such a bad idea.

- The question is now, do I change my vote from myself to Kommodus? After all, one can get hit both ways for this. If I keep my vote on me, I get blasted for not following above logic, people saying I'm scummy, and saying that my impending "well, the logic is sound, but I'd still rather it be me because I'm the only one I can trust" defense is weak.

- On the other hand, considering my last long post ("everybody, vote for yourselves!"), they'd say I'm a flip-flopper and that's scummy. Finally, considering that several people are under fire for selecting me (never mind that Seamus just posted that the initial families get two people they know and I have roughly six votes :rolleyes2:), backing off and voting someone else would also be considered scummy.

Ahh, Capo.

Anyway, I'd rather be hit with the allegations coming from my first choice, so I'm leaving my vote on me right now.

G'night.

That sounds awfully defensive for somebody who isn't under pression :inquisitive:


Sasaki has shown that he is always probing of everyone's statements in all cases, and there are many times he was innocent and many times he was guilty and deceived everyone.
Therefore he is dangerous - yet I do not suspect him of anything.

I am, I admit, annoyed that after I joked and said I was paranoid and tried to give good reasoning for voting GH, mainly because I felt sorry for him, that someone still picked something in this to try and turn the light upon me.

Such attention is unwanted in any role.

I would ask what everyone here would have me do to avoid suspicion that Hankerchief and I are connected in this game in anyway, but until someone suggests - I will simply change my vote.

Deselect: GeneralHankerchief

Select: True Praetorian

You know, you could have easily ignored Sasaki's accusation. After all, we are not voting for a lynch yet. Also, there wasn't much pressure on you when you made that post. Same as for GH: sounds awfully defensive for somebody who isn't under (much) pression :inquisitive:

[PershsNhpios]

So shall I ignore you as you attempt to pression me, or shall I play the game?

I am new, this is my first proper match, Fimbulwinter was my introduction.
As such, I love discussion and carrying on debate, in the hope more people will join in and create a great meeting here.

I am sorry if it is the precipitation of my reply that causes this suspicion, however Sasaki is the only one who relates blame to no other but myself - and this caused me to believe him criminal.

I have learnt.

[Xehh II]

Apparently Kommodus has some special anti-mafia power, so i'm going to
Unselect: Abstain
Select: Kommodus

[Sarathos]

Does anyone have a tally?

[Andres]

So shall I ignore you as you attempt to pression me, or shall I play the game?

It's too late now... You'll have to defend yourself next round or alot of people will just bandwagon you.


I am new, this is my first proper match, Fimbulwinter was my introduction.

We know your new, but your defensive posting style while there wasn't much pressure on you, makes it difficult for us to believe that you're not scum.


I am sorry if it is the precipitation of my reply that causes this suspicion, however Sasaki is the only one who relates blame to no other but myself - and this caused me to believe him criminal.


Attack is the best defense, eh? You remind me of myself when I was mafia for the first time ~;)

Also, I'd like to hear more from norwegian nerd and more in particular about that "buddy" thing.

If you don't want to tell us the identity of your buddy, then maybe you can hint us towards his/your role(s)? You could consider doing so by pm, but since you can't trust anybody at this stage in the game, I'd do it in this public thread if I were you. There are doctors in this game able to offer you protection for the night and we can form a group of townies to protect you if necessary, so you don't need to be afraid of dying tonight.

[pevergreen]

Mmm. My main suspicion is Glenn. He is acting very irrational in PM conversation.

[Zorg]

Would you mind explaining the details of such a pm conversation, and what elements of it you found irrational? We can't really place blame on someone without more detailed evidence.

[pevergreen]

Lot of plots going around.

Lets wait until tomorrow for more information.

[Husar]

Sasaki - 4 (Husar, Sasaki, True, Xiahou)

Several with 1 or 2 votes.
I changed my Selection to Leet Eriksson and he selected himself(thus falling under 1 or 2 selections with Sasakis having 3), unless it's not allowed to unselect, which would be fine with me as well, this tally is a bit wrong. ~;)

[Sarathos]

Lets wait until tomorrow for more information.

Meaning death...:hanged:

[Moros]

First day in a while I'm out of bed before 12. So what I type may not be to clear, or logic, and will contian many grammar errors and the likes.

This norwegian nerd dude; he doesn't seem to be a mafia, well to me. Somehow it doesn't feel like it. I think he just got some special role, or some special addition to his role. Like knowing the true role of a player (for example two townies, who in the story are long freinds, and know for certain that both are in fact townies. Though they could also be wiseguys or mafiosi who know each other or something.) or they might have some special role who co-operates whith another one. For example let's say if there are 2 FBI-agents, maybe they know eachother, or something.

he could have a pro-towy role or the contrary. But it seems to me that he has some special role. And I think that if he has a special role it might be worth it to save him. Though putting him under pression might reveal a mafioso or something it might as well reveal a detective of sorts.
So I'm uncertain wether or not to lynch him next phase.

Anyway if there are detectives reading this, it might not be a bad idea, to actually investigate this fella.

EDIT:
If he indeed has a buddy, it'd be my bet that it is Glenn. Or he expresses himself in wierd way (I don't mean the limericks) or this guy is being stressed. We all know which players are usually stressed the most, the guilty ones.
So I think we might not do much bad if we try to get Glenn some votes next rounds. I want him to talk. And if he shows to be the buddy we might spash two flies in one go.


Mmm. My main suspicion is Glenn. He is acting very irrational in PM conversation.

Care to elaborate? Cause this is almost plain meatballin'. You may not take screens or citations (need to check the rules again), but I'm pretty sure you can discuss them.

[Andres]

Lets wait until tomorrow for more information.

Why do you want to wait until tomorrow?

[Moros]

Pevergreen, you're making yourself suspicious.

Andres: not angry because of last game are you? As you don't even wanted to talk by pm?

[pevergreen]

Why do you want to wait until tomorrow?
More information from the conversation.

It wasnt finished at that point, I still dont think it is now.

Enjoy your pm's :bow:

[Chimpyang]

Because it's interesting to see who the mafia hit tonight. Also, a lot of people havn't voted yet....things can still change

[pevergreen]

Hi, are any of you interested in creating a doctor group? Only 3 are needed but I think that 6 is a good number because if I got lucky and we're all townies then we can run 2 groups at once or we can run 1 group while the others settle any personal grudges they may have. We can also take a few casualties this way without having to look for new recruits. I should mention that I like doing stuff like this and creating names for the group. I was thinking something along the lines of "Angels of Fatlington" or AoF for short.

I won't be available night 1 because I'll be whacking Pevergreen. Don't have a clue who I'll be working with, but I want him dead if I can. I'll be available after that.

Remember that if you decline then I'll be forced to assume that you're mafia

toodles.
Woad(or Dr. Waldinger works too)

Whacking me night 1? Not very nice W&F.

Glen PM conversation:


"With my best friend pevergreen"?

I see W&F has contacted you. His plan to kill me will not last.

4 hours later:



You and Pannonian have a deal - he isn't saying anything - but you're saying alot, and if you want me to say anything at all on the subject of Capo, you are going to explain to me ************** why you voted for him.

To put your mind at ease, my location is to do with Fimbulwinter, when you suspected me I wanted to stir you up.
The Title is just a competitive attitude.

You are also going to tell me why WF wants to kill you and why he won't.

Glenn
Why I voted for Pannonian: Back in Capo 1, I was new and posted a screenshot proving Sasaki as guilty in my eyes. Pannonian saw this unreputable truth and suicided. I felt terrible so I exiled myself from the org for about a month.

My post said it was to ease my regret or whatever i said. He then accepted my apology, saying that there were no hard feelings. I now have no loyalty to him.

I havent been in contact with Pannonian in 7 months.

Why W&F wants to kill me: No idea
Why he will fail: I already have a protection group.


Thats part of it.


People are very afraid to commit. heheheh

[Andres]

Andres: not angry because of last game are you? As you don't even wanted to talk by pm?

You've got mail ~;)


Enjoy your pm's

I got exactly 1 (one) pm from you in which you proposed to become the town's coordination center.

Now, pevergreen, if you are going to be our coordination center, then you'll have all the valuable information. Tell me, why should we trust you and give you such an important position?

Why not waiting until somebody gets killed by the mafia or succesfully protected, because at that stage we will have a confirmed innocent.

Right now, you might as well be mafia scum who is going to get alot of important information.

I don't trust you pevergreen. Sorry. I prefer to wait until we have a or a few confirmed innocent players. Until then, you won't get anything from me.

[Andres]

Hi, are any of you interested in creating a doctor group? Only 3 are needed but I think that 6 is a good number because if I got lucky and we're all townies then we can run 2 groups at once or we can run 1 group while the others settle any personal grudges they may have. We can also take a few casualties this way without having to look for new recruits. I should mention that I like doing stuff like this and creating names for the group. I was thinking something along the lines of "Angels of Fatlington" or AoF for short.

I won't be available night 1 because I'll be whacking Pevergreen. Don't have a clue who I'll be working with, but I want him dead if I can. I'll be available after that.

Remember that if you decline then I'll be forced to assume that you're mafia

toodles.
Woad(or Dr. Waldinger works too)

A doctor who is going to kill another player?

Assuming this pm quoted by pevergreen is genuine (isn't it woad&fangs insead of Woad&Fangs?), I would like to know, woad&fangs, why would you want to kill pevergreen? How can you possibly be sure of his guilt?

A vigilante killing random players is as dangerous as a mafioso...

[pevergreen]

Would you like who that was sent to Andres?

I left it out originally.

[Craterus]

God knows how I'm going to keep up with this game. I'm at college atm and it's pretty rare that I have the opportunity to check the .Org while I'm here.

Anyway, I don't have very long but I'd like to say that I think forming these vigilante groups is dangerous at this stage. I've already been approached twice and asked to put my trust in a group of unknowns(their names would not be revealed until my participation was definite). As I understand it, if one group member backs out, there's a chance the others could die. Seems a bit risky to me, especially when the target is fairly likely to be innocent anyway. Therefore, I won't be joining any vigilante groups in this night phase and I think the people forming them right now are suspicious.

[Kagemusha]

A doctor who is going to kill another player?

Assuming this pm quoted by pevergreen is genuine (isn't it woad&fangs insead of Woad&Fangs?), I would like to know, woad&fangs, why would you want to kill pevergreen? How can you possibly be sure of his guilt?

A vigilante killing random players is as dangerous as a mafioso...

Thats a good call indeed Andres, it should be indeed woad&fangs with no capital letters. What do you have to say in this little thing pevergreen?Now that i remember, did we had certain roles in Capo I, who´s main job was to try and kill the other, maybe woad and pevergreen are these roles?

[Moros]

Is it allowed to quote pm's then? I guess I misread the rules. Anyway I replied Andres.

Got pm's from pevergreen and Glenn too. Some guys are putting a lot of time in this it seems.

[pevergreen]

I copy pasted from a pm into word. The QUOTE tags around W&F's post are manual.

If it should be woad&fangs, my mistake. I automatically put Woad&Fangs.

I got pounded for this in Capo 1. It was manual, therefore, not perfect.

[Andres]

I got pounded for this in Capo 1.

And you were mafia in that game ~;)

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

[Pannonian]

From the rules (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1819573&postcount=2), "Rules Pertaining to Gameplay by dead players, Screenies, etc.".


Dead players may not quote from a PM unless that PM has been posted in the public thread by a living player.

Clearly implying living players can quote PMs. Also, from the code of ethics (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1819414&postcount=1).


Part of the charm of Capo is the degree of ambiguity and the lack, for the most part, of absolute results on investigations etc. You are free to fabricate, connive, or otherwise finesse your way to success. Screenshots destroy this and make the game pretty much moot.

Living players can quote PMs, dead players can only quote PMs that are already public, screenshots are a no-no for everyone.

[Moros]

Meh. If you got pounded for it, then why do it again? I know I did that with CTDC I and got lynched or almost (not sure anymore) because of it. While I was detective. However since I would never do the quote manually again, so would any sane person...

[Moros]

From the rules (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1819573&postcount=2), "Rules Pertaining to Gameplay by dead players, Screenies, etc.".



Clearly implying living players can quote PMs. Also, from the code of ethics (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1819414&postcount=1).



Living players can quote PMs, dead players can only quote PMs that are already public, screenshots are a no-no for everyone.
yeah I noticed when I checked them. Thanks anyway!:egypt:

[Kagemusha]

It seems that in pevergreen, we have found our first real scum.:whip:

[Andres]

I'd still like to hear from woad&fangs though...

w&f, is pevergreen lying or not?

[Myrddraal]

BTW w&f, it's in your interest to tell the truth, wether the claims are true or false.

Does anyone have a tally of the current vote? I've lost track.

[Moros]

Pevergreen might have or might not have changed the pm, but I don't think someone would make this up for some kind of reason.

wtf...err...w&f please tell us. Being silent pobably will only make you a possible lynch.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I'm curious as to what woad&fangs has against pevergreen, although I'm not entirely sure I can trust pevergreen either - I'm weary of the true intentions of players who seem willing to form up vigilante/protection groups so early on in the game. Going on a recent PM of his, pevergreen is trying to do that exactly.

So, woad&fangs, why are you trying to kill pevergreen? As Andres has said, fanatically random vigilantes are helping the mafia more than the town. Also why are you trying to form a protection group at a time so early on in the game when distinguishing between the innocents and the guilty players is practically impossible.

The latter question I also pose to pevergreen, although I do have fewer doubts over his intentions, since I am sure that he sent the PM to more than a few people (if he was mafia, this would make manipulation very difficult).

[woad&fangs]

I'm not being silent. I've been asleep. I didn't check to see that they were word for word 100% accurate but the gist of it looked correct. As I've explained to several of the people I contacted, I have a personal grudge against Pevergreen and I wanted to deal with that. No strategy, just me wanting to kill him in the game. I guess that that plan is out the window now.

[Drisos]

Got pm's from pevergreen and Glenn too. Some guys are putting a lot of time in this it seems.

I didn't receive any from Glenn... any thoughts as to why, moros? suspiciouss..

not as suspicious as woad&f though.. a personal grudge? give me a break :P:dizzy2:

intresting!!:book:

[Andres]

I'm not being silent. I've been asleep. I didn't check to see that they were word for word 100% accurate but the gist of it looked correct. As I've explained to several of the people I contacted, I have a personal grudge against Pevergreen and I wanted to deal with that. No strategy, just me wanting to kill him in the game. I guess that that plan is out the window now.

Anyone else you hold a grudge against? If so, you might be as dangerous for the town as any other mafioso...

[The Stranger]

W&F what if pever was a doctor or a detective... then you just wouldve rid the town of a valuable person just because you are mad... control your self man...

[The Stranger]

Please, don't spam. Thnx in advance - Andres

this game is tooooo slow...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Why not waiting until somebody gets killed by the mafia or succesfully protected, because at that stage we will have a confirmed innocent.

Bruh? :dizzy2:

Have you forgotten that there are five families??!?!

In this game, death means nothing. At least, not until Seamus reveals the roles several days later, and by that time the issue will most likely be moot.

[The Stranger]

5!!!???!!???!?!?! families...

omg... this asks for a drastical different approach... i wonder how many wolfs are there... SASAKI!!! HOWL IN THE WIND MY FRIEND... I'm coming to get some WOLFS!!!!!!!! lads lock and load...

[Drisos]

It's cool though, our enemies might kill each other. That would certainly help.

It's quite difficult though, so much things that can happen, and nothing you seem to know is really true.. hmm.. will be hard to pick a lynch.. :S

[Sigurd]

pression

pression

pression

Please... I know English is not our first language, but its pressure. Geez!!! :beam:

[The Stranger]

hard... bet the reason will either be alphabetical or spamming... as usual...

[Andres]

Bruh? :dizzy2:

Have you forgotten that there are five families??!?!

In this game, death means nothing. At least, not until Seamus reveals the roles several days later, and by that time the issue will most likely be moot.

Meh, at a certain stage we will have somebody who we can trust.


Dead players may not quote from a PM unless that PM has been posted in the public thread by a living player.

A dead innocent can't quote a pm, but he/she can still tell us what information he/she has and can still somehow coordinate the town's actions.

It's safer to wait until we have somebody who can be trusted instead of pm'ing all our roles and night actions to an uncertain factor like pevergreen.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

"...And when Darkness
finally surrounds me now
All what remains is Silence
Into the Abyss you see"
-- Impending Doom


Sunset, Day One

The huge windows overlooking the boardwalk were uncovered, but no light streamed through. The sky was dark – no stars would shine tonight. Distant lightning lit the clouds, the cloud-to-cloud spikes of heat lightning – nothing that spoke of rain, of relief from the relentless heat.

The murmers died down as Fermanagh looked up from the pile of vote slips he’d been tallying.

“Well, that settles it,” said Chief Fermanagh, “with 13 votes out of 79, you’ve selected Andres AND Kommodus to stand as director for the Committee of Vigilance for the next two days.”

The meeting was hushed, but expectant. Everyone was breathing with that slow, conscious quality you get as the roller coaster heads up and over the top of that first long hill. Most were expressionless, a few openly worried. All wondered what this night would bring.

“Saints preserve us,” said Fermanagh, “this hasn’t happened before…”

He paused, considering, then flipped a coin…

“We’ll split the difference. Sergeant Muldoon! You and your 6 lads are to guard Kommodus tonight and to help him execute the sentence of the committee as he directs tomorrow sunset. You’ll then do the same for Andres on the following night. None of us are going to like this, but it must be done.”

The committee members filed slowly to the exits, only a few murmured conversations marring the silence, and walked out into the sweltering dark.

Night had come to Fatlington.



OOC:

Voting was a tie at 13, so each of the two will receive one night/day as director. Order determined at random.

All Night phase #1 (N1) PMs are due to me no later than 1300 EST 6 Feb 08 (1800 GMT). Night results posted as quickly thereafter as possible, so early PMs appreciated.

Selection Tally: (Edited, first formatting effort failed)

Andres = 13 (ajax, andres, beefy, craterus, crazed, hannibal, ichigo, jht, kami, sarathos, shlin, tran, zorg)

Kommodus = 13 (bsr, charge, ca, drisos, emm, hiji, ltp, moros, omanes, rythmic, taka, 'luster, xehh)

GeneralHankerchief = 6 (gh, joe, myrd, tiberius, tinc, 'blade)

Saskai Kojiro = 3 (sk, true, xiahou)

Ichigo = 2 (bks, kommo)

Leet Erikson = 2 (husar, leet)

Abstain = 2 (atpg, strange)

Solo Self Selection = 4 (FactionHeir, Kagemusha, Proletariat, Roadkill)

Single Selection (voter) = 10 (shlin28 (chimp), Big King Sanctphrax (gibson), TruePraaetorian (Glenn), Louis VI the Fat (kukri), Chimpyang (winter), Jubal_Barca (pann), Pannonian (pever), The Stranger (makan), Husar (sigurd), Beefy187 (w&f)).

Changed Selection = 6 (Fahad I to Kommodus (ca), GeneralHankerchief to TruePraetorian (glenn), Sasaki Kojiro to Leet Erikson (husar), Ichigo to Andres (ichigo), GeneralHankerchief to unselect (scott), abstain to Kommodus (xehh)).

No Selection = 23 (Caeser the III, Caius, Cowhead418, Draco Leman, Dutch guy, Elite Ferret, Fahad I, Haudegen, Ironside, JimBob, Jubal_Barca, Killfr3nzy, LittleGrizzly, Louis VI the Fat, molonthegreat, Motep, norwegian nerd, Northnovas, Rob_the_Celt, sapi, Warmaster Horus, x-dANGEr , Xdeathfire).

[Caeser The III]

select:beefy187
your name....it.......sounds suspicous

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It seems that in pevergreen, we have found our first real scum.:whip:

hmm? There's no reason to fake a pm at this stage. W&F would simply call him out and they would both go down.

[The Stranger]

you cannot select anymore...

[Husar]

wolfs [...] WOLFS
It's wolves. :inquisitive:

Also if I got that tally correctly we have Kommodus and Andres as directors, have to say that I found the tally a bit disturbing at first, seems like you count the votes from up all the way down. :dizzy2:

[The Stranger]

excitement got to me... i know that:P

[Moros]

Alea iacta est.

[Kagemusha]

hmm? There's no reason to fake a pm at this stage. W&F would simply call him out and they would both go down.

Well no one should not get away with being so sloppy either, later in the game there will be bad times coming if you cant tell a real pm from forgery when even writing other players name wrong is allowed when quoting him, without it raising suspicion.:thumbsdown:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think you and Andres were making a mountain out of a molehill. Copy/pasting the text and then adding the name manually is a perfectly legitimate way to quote a pm and not suspicious in the slightest. There's no rule that says mafia are more sloppy than townies, I would expect the opposite in fact. It's better to analyze from a bigger perspective--is it logical for pever to try and fake a pm, does the pm sound legitimate, etc.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

We can have two directors? Excellent.

[Drisos]

Alea iacta est.

I'd prefer: "Iacta alea east." Romans seem to build their sentences like that, all the time. :P


We can have two directors? Excellent.

where's the comment pointing to? seems out of the blue

Hmmm, if we could, could we also have 3? 4? 5? where would it stop. we could just arrange it so that loads of people would get the same number of votes.. (2 or so) and then loads are protected.. that would be helpful.

[Myrddraal]

If I understand correctly, each is director for 1 night only.

[TruePraetorian]

Glenn, just curious, why did you select me? Randomly or is there a specific reason.

[Kagemusha]

I think you and Andres were making a mountain out of a molehill. Copy/pasting the text and then adding the name manually is a perfectly legitimate way to quote a pm and not suspicious in the slightest. There's no rule that says mafia are more sloppy than townies, I would expect the opposite in fact. It's better to analyze from a bigger perspective--is it logical for pever to try and fake a pm, does the pm sound legitimate, etc.

Well this is your opinion and i respect that, but i think the situation should be analyzed from every possible perspective. Pushing Pever a bit over the typo didnt hurt anyone so whats the point complaining about it? Or do you have some kind of information, we rest are not aware off?

[The Stranger]

tis night now... innit...

[Warmaster Horus]

I won't be available for a few days. Unfortunately, the computer is dieing right now, and I'll probably be without the internet for a few days... So, pretty please with sugar on top, don't lynch me while I'm gone...

I'll be back though!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yes, I resolved the selection tie by having each serve for 1 of the two lynching sessions.

No, there are NOT multiple Directors -- they serve sequentially, as indicated in the text.

Yes, it is now night one.

N1 PMs due from everybody. Dons owe me "signatures"

[The Stranger]

so... who is director now? its important to know... because directors cant be hit... are they both unattackable now?

[Pannonian]

so... who is director now? its important to know... because directors cant be hit... are they both unattackable now?
Read the story. Kommo is protected tonight, Andres tomorrow night.

[The Stranger]

oh oke...

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

so... who is director now? its important to know... because directors cant be hit... are they both unattackable now?Are you planning a hit on one of the potential directors TS? If this is the case, might I ask why you are planning on such a strategy when there is so little evidence to go on?

[Husar]

Yeah, means you can't kill them and better focus on protecting me...

[The Stranger]

yeah... im planning on killing andres... :dizzy: and im already saying so in thread so he can prepare his prayers...

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

yeah... im planning on killing andres... :dizzy: and im already saying so in thread so he can prepare his prayers...The critical question is why though TS? I know you very well as the fairly aggressive vigilante, although such a strategy on any player at this phase is a ridiculously inadvisable move and helps the mafia more than the town. Although I do not doubt your intentions are not necessarily against the town, I advise you avoid murdering any player until you are more sure on their guilt.

[Ferret]

not if I kill you first! Maybe tonight I'll kill all of you then who'll be laughing?

On a serious note I am also suffering internet troubles as players from the Throne Room already know so I may miss out on a few votes as I have no idea when it is going to go down. This is also my first ever mafia game so please go easy on me.

edit: first part aimed at TS

[Dutch_guy]

On a serious note I am also suffering internet troubles as players from the Throne Room already know so I may miss out on a few votes as I have no idea when it is going to go down.


Missing votes, abstaining or generally lurking is perhaps one of the best ways to get oneself killed by an angry horde of pitchfork wielding peasants. Let's hope your internet holds on just a little bit longer.

:balloon2:

[The Stranger]

i was being sarcastic omanes...

[Ferret]

Missing votes, abstaining or generally lurking is perhaps one of the best ways to get oneself killed by an angry horde of pitchfork wielding peasants. Let's hope your internet holds on just a little bit longer.

:balloon2:

hmmmm but why do you hope I survive? :inquisitive:

veeeeery suspicious...

[Dutch_guy]

hmmmm but why do you hope I survive? :inquisitive:

veeeeery suspicious...

You misunderstood, I don't have an opinion regarding your hypothetical death, because I can't and don't know if you're a townie or a mafioso.

:balloon2:

[Moros]

I'd prefer: "Iacta alea east." Romans seem to build their sentences like that, all the time. :P.
First of all the word east didn't exist in latin. It was oriens back then. Also it doesn't matter wether it Iacta or alea is in front. Alea is in front as it's the Alea which is important. Also Caesar would have said it in Greek, if he indeed ever said it. So it doesn't really matter.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

i was being sarcastic omanes...*feels exceptionally embarrassed*

[Sasaki Kojiro]

TS, where you planning on forming a protection group tonight?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Sunset Day One Selection Tally adjusted to actually be readable.

Have a good night.

[Louis VI the Fat]

not if I kill you first! Maybe tonight I'll kill all of you then who'll be laughing?

On a serious note I am also suffering internet troubles as players from the Throne Room already know so I may miss out on a few votes as I have no idea when it is going to go down. This is also my first ever mafia game so please go easy on me. Well that is a drag. I am afraid Dutch_guy is right though. Nobody knows whom to kill or hang in the first few, confusing rounds. So people generally aim for inexperienced players who don't post. For all they know, the newster may have stopped playing anyway so he won't be missed.

Might I suggest you PM me your role if you are interested in continued participation despite possible internet problems? Then I can vote on your behalf and see to it that nobody mistakes you for an easy picking in your absense. :bow:

[The Stranger]

so... and sasaki joins the fray...

[Pannonian]

Might I suggest you PM me your role if you are interested in continued participation despite possible internet problems? Then I can vote on your behalf and see to it that nobody mistakes you for an easy picking in your absense. :bow:
I also hear that Fatlington bridge is up for sale at a very reasonable price.

[Chimpyang]

Why the sudden generous offer Louis? Seems kind of like scaremongering, trying to encourage new players like me to join up.....

[The Stranger]

maybe he is mafia and needs some roles he can use for cover... i say not give him your role...

[Louis VI the Fat]

maybe he is mafia and needs some roles he can use for cover... i say not give him your role...Mafia wins with secrecy and by divide and conquer. Town wins by sharing information and by joining forces. :smash:


I also hear that Fatlington bridge is up for sale at a very reasonable price.
That would be the Eiffat Tower, to be precise. ~;)


Great place for suicides too...~;p

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Mafia wins with secrecy and by divide and conquer. Town wins by sharing information and by joining forces. :smash:


Mafia also wins by finding and killing all the detectives and doctors :smash:


I don't think TS's story about asking which director was protected quite adds up, but there are more important things to do.

[The Stranger]

i wouldnt be so bold about it... if i was planning murder

[Andres]

Sasaki, why didn't you like the extra pressure on pevergreen? After all, his mass pm'ing at the beginnig of the game is at the least odd. He can be sincere, but he can also be a Made looking for wiseguys or a wiseguy trying to create his own family...

The W&F - w&f was thin, but it made him and others talk. It made w&f confirm in the thread that he indeed sent that pm.

Since when are you not in favour of discussion?

And "pever wouldn't post a fake pm at the beginning of the game, because blahblahblah" just leads to WIFOM.

[KukriKhan]

That would be the Eiffat Tower, to be precise.

https://jimcee.homestead.com/eiffat1.jpg

LoL.


but there are more important things to do.

Such as?

Guessing: figuring out who to lynch? Is it usual to start that now? Or best to wait for the Director to direct the effort?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Such as?

Guessing: figuring out who to lynch? Is it usual to start that now? Or best to wait for the Director to direct the effort?

:laugh4:

Unfortunately, in our messed-up little world, a director is hardly required. After all, we have enough posts from newbies being horribly misconstrued, paranoid people going after people with legitimate excuses for being offline, and "capitalization" smoking guns to put forth a solid effort by ourselves.

Note to self: revise above, it sounds too harsh.
:thinking2: :thinking2: :thinking2:

No, we've accumilated more than enough information in this first day to get started without a Director.

[scottishranger]

Just to clarify, the reason I made such a long post was not even in support of GH. All I was doing was analysing the role of Director in my opinion. It was also so I could be noticed and possibly be taken seriously by all of you experianced mafia players here:clown: .


As to Pevergreen, I see no reason to coordinate with you, especially now that some people have been suspecting you. If I was to tell you who was in a group of mine, and you were turned or betrayed us, the entire town would be screwed.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki, why didn't you like the extra pressure on pevergreen? After all, his mass pm'ing at the beginnig of the game is at the least odd. He can be sincere, but he can also be a Made looking for wiseguys or a wiseguy trying to create his own family...

The W&F - w&f was thin, but it made him and others talk. It made w&f confirm in the thread that he indeed sent that pm.

Since when are you not in favour of discussion?

And "pever wouldn't post a fake pm at the beginning of the game, because blahblahblah" just leads to WIFOM.

I had already heard that w&f had said something like that, it's not wifom because wifom involves an ~50-50 choice, the capitalization issue is bad logic and it's never good to start discussion with bad logic, and with a game this big there's no danger of lack of discussion while there is a danger of lack of focus...remember there are 15 mafia to start with. I remember the last thread solid accusations got buried in 10 pages of posting.




Such as?

Guessing: figuring out who to lynch? Is it usual to start that now? Or best to wait for the Director to direct the effort?

Lynching Glenn.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Lynching Glenn.

Please summarize your case against Glenn, ignoring the fact that he is relatively new to both Mafia and the .Org and seems to use this awkward posting style in all other forums.

[Charge]

Please summarize your case against Glenn, ignoring the fact that he is relatively new to both Mafia and the .Org and seems to use this awkward posting style in all other forums.
You kinda defending him, GH.. He really wanted to elect you before...

[Andres]

GH, you probably missed this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1823897&postcount=138)

For your convenience:


Okay, I'm logging off for the night. A couple of quick hits before I go:

- From what I recall, Kommodus sucks as mafia. Putting him in the spotlight might not be such a bad idea.

- The question is now, do I change my vote from myself to Kommodus? After all, one can get hit both ways for this. If I keep my vote on me, I get blasted for not following above logic, people saying I'm scummy, and saying that my impending "well, the logic is sound, but I'd still rather it be me because I'm the only one I can trust" defense is weak.

- On the other hand, considering my last long post ("everybody, vote for yourselves!"), they'd say I'm a flip-flopper and that's scummy. Finally, considering that several people are under fire for selecting me (never mind that Seamus just posted that the initial families get two people they know and I have roughly six votes :rolleyes2:), backing off and voting someone else would also be considered scummy.

Ahh, Capo.

Anyway, I'd rather be hit with the allegations coming from my first choice, so I'm leaving my vote on me right now.

G'night.

It's the bolded part that bothers me. It sounds awfully defensive for somebody who isn't under pression pressure :inquisitive:

[GeneralHankerchief]

You kinda defending him, GH.. He really wanted to elect you before...

No, I'm simply defending someone whom I believe is a mistaken lynch target.

Those who have played with me and paid close attention to me in the past know that I've always fought against "newbie lynches" who seem to have just misspoke.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Please summarize your case against Glenn, ignoring the fact that he is relatively new to both Mafia and the .Org and seems to use this awkward posting style in all other forums.

1) Paranoia: He is paranoid about his posts, and edited it to add reason. Mafiosos are more paranoid than townies. His reasoning for selection is also bogus as has been pointed out. Paranoia is a well know scumtell.

Quote:

I intend to

Select: GeneralHankerchief

One who I currently trust, and who will be a popular candidate for the axe if he isn't elected to prove his worth.

I am paranoid of what will be thought of everything I write!

So I must edit to say I trust GeneralHankerchief because I believe he would be given a more moderate role this time - instead of a largely evil one such as in previous games.

Don't credit my guess too faithfully..

2) Backtracking: After the initial accusation of paranoia he backtracks, claiming:


Sasaki has shown that he is always probing of everyone's statements in all cases, and there are many times he was innocent and many times he was guilty and deceived everyone.
Therefore he is dangerous - yet I do not suspect him of anything.

I am, I admit, annoyed that after I joked and said I was paranoid and tried to give good reasoning for voting GH, mainly because I felt sorry for him, that someone still picked something in this to try and turn the light upon me.

Such attention is unwanted in any role.

I would ask what everyone here would have me do to avoid suspicion that Hankerchief and I are connected in this game in anyway, but until someone suggests - I will simply change my vote.

Deselect: GeneralHankerchief

Select: True Praetorian

There's no way the initial post can be taken as a joke. He said he was paranoid, came back and edited his post to give a reason because he was worried, and asked us not to look at it too closely. He also asks us what he should do to avoid suspicion, which is another scum tell.

3) Sidestepping: He hasn't responded to the accusation of dishonesty, instead moving to the offensive:


Your belligerence is even more thirsty than when you were an innocent civilian.

I thought I gave correct evidence, and didn't see my error worthy of death in any case.

I have no suspicions of anyone yet - excepting your sudden attacks, and how you push for a bandwagoning attempt upon me.

Don't make any mistakes in your posts, Sasaki, and don't betray anything - because you aren't a Pro-Townie.

4) Self PreservationAnd despite his certainty that I am not pro-town, he is willing to offer a truce:


If you are innocent, I don't think there is anyway I can prove mine to you in speech - and I don't see anyway you can convince me that you aren't a family member who has mistaken me for one - and is now attempting to lynch me - or kill me.

But I know one way in which we can trust each other, and that is by my abstenance from prosecuting against anything you say, and your abstenance from harming my welfare also in the public arena.

This way we can both be peaceful without entrusting ourselves to each other, and we can be sure, assuming we're both innocent, that we aren't doing any harm to our own team - and keep this attitude until something drastically changes.

Tell me wether you agree with this.

I think it's likely you'll refuse, and continue to try and lynch me - but I'd prefer you to disappoint me in that apprehension.

Glenn

If a townie thinks someone is guilty, they don't offer a truce for the sake of self preservation. QED. 4 strikes and you're out. Lynch Glenn.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No, I'm simply defending someone whom I believe is a mistaken lynch target.

Those who have played with me and paid close attention to me in the past know that I've always fought against "newbie lynches" who seem to have just misspoke.


Really? You think someone who is paranoid, lies about it, sidesteps questions, and acts strongly for self preservation is "misspeaking"? What do you consider scummy short of guaranteed detective investigations?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Really? You think someone who is paranoid, lies about it, sidesteps questions, and acts strongly for self preservation is "misspeaking"? What do you consider scummy short of guaranteed detective investigations?

Behavior that in the past indicated scumminess when the people doing so should have known better.

[Moros]

I think we're getting a bit too excited Sasaki. Can't remember you being so attacking from the start SK. We're not trying to spread choas are we? Just had to say that SK, just had to.

Though you do raise valid points. However I think the first kills will reveal much more. And perhaps we might then be able to build a bigger case than the writing style of someone who's writing style doesn't even is known. He might not have defended his case, but aren't mafiosi the guys who'd defend their case the most? (That or they would ignore it, hoping it would be forgotten.)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Re: Andres.

Missed the post when you first did it (and second time too).

Anyway, it was indirect pressure. Sasaki's been dogging Glenn and those who gave (to him) questionable reasoning for electing me. By using some kind of mathematical or logical reasoning, I figured that if he was pressuring my alleged "goons" he'd think that I was in on something too.

[Andres]

I think we're getting a bit too excited Sasaki. Can't remember you being so attacking from the start SK. We're not trying to spread choas are we? Just had to say that SK, just had to.

Though you do raise valid points. However I think the first kills will reveal much more. And perhaps we might then be able to build a bigger case than the writing style of someone who's writing style doesn't even is known. He might not have defended his case, but aren't mafiosi the guys who'd defend their case the most? (That or they would ignore it, hoping it would be forgotten.)

So first you say Sasaki is spreading chaos, then you agree with him. Allthough he gives valid points, you say that we have to wait for the kills because they will make for a better case? Then you say that Glenn did not defend his case, but a mafioso would defend his case, but then again he would not defend his case...

Eh...

I'm lost.

Have you been drinking? Or are you scum that feels the need to post and to look like the helpfull townie?

:inquisitive:

[Husar]

:bulb: :bulb2: :bulb:

[Andres]

Re: Andres.

Missed the post when you first did it (and second time too).

Anyway, it was indirect pressure. Sasaki's been dogging Glenn and those who gave (to him) questionable reasoning for electing me. By using some kind of mathematical or logical reasoning, I figured that if he was pressuring my alleged "goons" he'd think that I was in on something too.

And in what post exactly was it written that you could be/are linked to Glenn?

Oh no, there wasn't such a post, you just used "mathematical reasoning"...

So it was a pre-emptive defense?

Sounds like fear of being lynched + a bit of paranoia to me.

You're usually not the kind of guy who loses his nerve and gets paranoid that easily...

Strange to say the least.

:inquisitive:

[Moros]

So first you say Sasaki is spreading chaos, then you agree with him. Allthough he gives valid points, you say that we have to wait for the kills because they will make for a better case? Then you say that Glenn did not defend his case, but a mafioso would defend his case, but then again he would not defend his case...

Eh...

I'm lost.

Have you been drinking? Or are you scum that feels the need to post and to look like the helpfull townie?

:inquisitive:
Well No, I've been drinking a lot lately but I haven't today. Maybe the beer did kill the braincells though. (Not that that would have required a lot of beer though. :laugh4: )

Anyway my point is, that though he has some valid points, I think he's a bit overreacting. That's all. And that thing about spreading chaos? Wel I just had to ask, I had to. Who said it again? That paranoia in this game was good.

also at least I wasn't pmming in English ~;).

[GeneralHankerchief]

And in what post exactly was it written that you could be/are linked to Glenn?

Oh no, there wasn't such a post, you just used "mathematical reasoning"...

So it was a pre-emptive defense?

Sounds like fear of being lynched + a bit of paranoia to me.

You're usually not the kind of guy who loses his nerve and gets paranoid that easily...

Strange to say the least.

:inquisitive:

Hmm, let's see...

The fact that he (along with a few other people) was being called out specifically for their reasons for voting moi, perhaps?

And yeah, it was a pre-emptive defense. I didn't want to have to wake up with 50 "you said you like the choice of Kommodus, why did you not vote him then?" posts waiting for reply.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Finally, considering that several people are under fire for selecting me (never mind that Seamus just posted that the initial families get two people they know and I have roughly six votes :rolleyes2:), backing off and voting someone else would also be considered scummy.

Ahh, Capo.


For what it's worth, this is exactly how I'd expect GH to defend a scumbuddy. No name mentioned, dismissive rolleyes.

[GeneralHankerchief]

For what it's worth, this is exactly how I'd expect GH to defend a scumbuddy. No name mentioned, dismissive rolleyes.

I figured it out! It's the transitive property (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_property)! That's that little mathematic formula I've been using!

If A=B and B=C, A must equal C.

A: Glenn comes under fire for electing me.
B: I defend those who come under fire for electing me.

Therefore...

C: I defend Glenn.

It's not too hard to put 2 and 2 together, Sasaki.

[Csargo]

I figured it out! It's the transitive property (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_property)! That's that little mathematic formula I've been using!

If A=B and B=C, A must equal C.

A: Glenn comes under fire for trusting you for no apparent reason.
B: I defend those who come under fire for electing me.

Therefore...

C: I defend Glenn.

It's not too hard to put 2 and 2 together, Sasaki.

fixed.:)

[Moros]

Just a question sasaki, but what do the numbers on you list between the () mean? * means the same number I guess. But wat does the number mean?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

* is a placeholder, the others are 1-10. Why would you think that I considered you as suspicious as Glenn?

[Ayachuco]

1) Paranoia: He is paranoid about his posts, and edited it to add reason. Mafiosos are more paranoid than townies. His reasoning for selection is also bogus as has been pointed out. Paranoia is a well know scumtell.

2) Backtracking: After the initial accusation of paranoia he backtracks, claiming:

There's no way the initial post can be taken as a joke. He said he was paranoid, came back and edited his post to give a reason because he was worried, and asked us not to look at it too closely. He also asks us what he should do to avoid suspicion, which is another scum tell.

3) Sidestepping: He hasn't responded to the accusation of dishonesty, instead moving to the offensive:

4) Self PreservationAnd despite his certainty that I am not pro-town, he is willing to offer a truce:

If a townie thinks someone is guilty, they don't offer a truce for the sake of self preservation. QED. 4 strikes and you're out. Lynch Glenn.


Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Even while typing this reply, I am feeling a bit paranoid; more paranoid than usual since as a townie I have no idea who is on which side. Every word can be taken as a lynchable clue and every statement a double-edged sword that hit yourself in the head. The whole, you're all alone and screwed if you misplace your trust (esp. in the beginning with the vigilante/protect groups) can make anyone to some degree paranoid. Glenn was attacked and he reacted by lashing out at the provokers. Instead of defending himself and digging himself into a bigger hole b/c of his presumed "mistake" of jokingly being paranoid, he decided to settle it via pm. His offensive pm really wasn't that offensive or scummy, he just gave you a mental note that he would be keeping his eyes on your activities which is something a townie is supposed to do. However, he probably realized that he was being too aggresive and didn't want to come off as being a mafioso and offered a truce, albeit a shady one. Also, the fact that he probably couldn't persuade anyone that you were a mafioso coupled with his lack of evidence of your guiltyness (his assumption of your mafioso role came from your actions, however a townie would also be questioning people lead to his confused state) and prompted the truce. Everyone wants to live as much as the next person and so self preservation isn't neccessarily something that would point out a mafioso. I sure don't want to die but I know that I'm not a mafioso, also. Let us wait for night results before we start a lynching comittee, it will give us a more accurate picture of who we're dealing with. Right now I'm just going to be watching scottishranger and Lord Winter, (no hunches, just watching). Yes, I'm paranoid and proud of it.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That's fine, there's a reason it's a scumtell and not a scumguarantee. It's widely accepted by many experience players as well, if you'll excuse the appeal to authority ~:)

[Moros]

* is a placeholder, the others are 1-10. Why would you think that I considered you as suspicious as Glenn?
Cause I tought the * probably stand for same number. and I see those - connecting me with Glenn and GH, or who was it? (can't see your sig while replying), so I guess I'm not the one laying the connection.

I however did have pm conversations with Glenn, and though I will not say that I thrust him, the pm conversations I had didn't make him look suspicious at all. Personally I must agree that he did post some supicious stuff. However I'm going to wait making to many conclusions for now, however, please don't stop posting arguments adn try to convince me. Cause if you can make a case, I'll be the first to lych him. However personnaly I think we're a bit to low on information for thinking about lynching people already. Hopefully the kills may tell us much more.

Though you suspecting people already that much, is a bit suspicious (but then again, what isn't during a Mafia game?), I'm under the impression you seem to play different from the previous game. When you in fact was mafia-side, or are you succesfully fooling me again? :clown:

[Csargo]

Paranoia has nothing to do with it. Even while typing this reply, I am feeling a bit paranoid; more paranoid than usual since as a townie I have no idea who is on which side. Every word can be taken as a lynchable clue and every statement a double-edged sword that hit yourself in the head. The whole, you're all alone and screwed if you misplace your trust (esp. in the beginning with the vigilante/protect groups) can make anyone to some degree paranoid. Glenn was attacked and he reacted by lashing out at the provokers. Instead of defending himself and digging himself into a bigger hole b/c of his presumed "mistake" of jokingly being paranoid, he decided to settle it via pm. His offensive pm really wasn't that offensive or scummy, he just gave you a mental note that he would be keeping his eyes on your activities which is something a townie is supposed to do. However, he probably realized that he was being too aggresive and didn't want to come off as being a mafioso and offered a truce, albeit a shady one. Also, the fact that he probably couldn't persuade anyone that you were a mafioso coupled with his lack of evidence of your guiltyness (his assumption of your mafioso role came from your actions, however a townie would also be questioning people lead to his confused state) and prompted the truce. Everyone wants to live as much as the next person and so self preservation isn't neccessarily something that would point out a mafioso. I sure don't want to die but I know that I'm not a mafioso, also. Let us wait for night results before we start a lynching comittee, it will give us a more accurate picture of who we're dealing with. Right now I'm just going to be watching scottishranger and Lord Winter, (no hunches, just watching). Yes, I'm paranoid and proud of it.

Why are you paranoid?

[Moros]

Why are you paranoid?
err... didn't he explain that in his post?

People please, I know most of us (hopefully lol) are trying to help town. But I sincerely got the feeling were going over the top. We're turning this thing into a chaos. This way we're going to make decent arguments fade to the background.