View Full Version : Poll : Do you like Mass rebellions ?
Mithrandir
10-03-2002, 21:37
A)Yes
B)No
C)Don't care
New!
D)Patch it so they're not as powerfull and dont happen quite as often as now.
E) Patch it so they only occur in the hard & very hard game modes.
I ask this because I dont like them and many other people don't, if there are enough votes on no, maybe the devs can "patch" it ?
A simple, A,B or C will do http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.
Thanks,
Mithrandir.
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Counting :
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A : 2
B : 2
C : 1
D :
E : (first have dinner brb http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif)
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[This message has been edited by Mithrandir (edited 10-03-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Mithrandir (edited 10-03-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Mithrandir (edited 10-03-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Mithrandir (edited 10-03-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Mithrandir (edited 10-03-2002).]
Soapyfrog
10-03-2002, 21:38
A
I should note that they have been toned down in the patch (less tech)
Mithrandir
10-03-2002, 21:42
How about only enabling them in Hard or very hard game modes ?
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Mephisto
10-03-2002, 21:42
A
MonkeyMan
10-03-2002, 21:43
C, i like a good rebellion or two, just so long as it isn't really big, i think with the patch and the reduction in the quality of rebellions, that should clear most problems up.
In their current state? B) NO!
If they were tweaked to better reflect reality then... A) YES!
You may want to consider adding a few more choices because my answers don't quite fit the logic of the original question.
Swoosh So
10-03-2002, 21:51
B if you work to get your provinces high loyalty it should be rewarded not hit with mass rebellion i find the game very difficult as it is with certain factions so for me the rebellions destroy my fragile empire. I think a more powerfull and effective mongol horde would make the game much more interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not mass rebellions that just seem like a chore as apposed to fun
[This message has been edited by Swoosh So (edited 10-03-2002).]
Niccolomachiavelli
10-03-2002, 21:53
If *I* cant raise 5 units of 60 Nubian Spearmen in a single turn, neither should the rebels be able to. I dont see how its logical that a bunch of rebels can instantly produce large numbers of trained units. In all frankness most rebellions should be limited to peasants. Maybe you could make them high valor, moral armor, weapon peasants, but they should *not* be advanced troops. Peasants, just peasants
(all that meaning "B")
[This message has been edited by Niccolomachiavelli (edited 10-03-2002).]
ToranagaSama
10-03-2002, 21:57
You should include another option.
e) Have never experience them
Soapyfrog
10-03-2002, 22:03
Or:
f) experienced them once, figured out how they work and how to prevent them, and then never had to deal with them again...
ishikawa2
10-03-2002, 22:14
In response to SoapyFrog's "figured out how they work":
OK... but where is the definitive answer on "how they work"? I've seen so much stuff around here, but I must have missed any definitive explanation.
But here's a related issue: How can you save and exit the game between battles within a given turn? With world-wide rebellions (I think I had over 20.... thus far unexplained), I cannot devote the computer to the several uninterrupted hours of gaming it would require to work through them all, so it is a complete campaign-ending event since I don't seem to able to save between battles.
Pachinko
10-03-2002, 22:19
A
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Crush your enemies, see them driven before you on the field of battle, and hear the lamentation of their women.
Dev quote>>Sigh, ye of little faith. Don't assume everything is a bug.
BlackWatch McKenna
10-03-2002, 22:55
A
.........
The patch is addressing the Super Stacks(tm), yes?
AgentBif
10-03-2002, 23:00
B
If there is going to be such a rebellion, there ought to be a reason for it. You should get some kind of feedback that the people across many provinces are massing large quantities of well trained well armed armies. And there should be some mechanism by which you can move to prevent it from happening before it does.
bif
A of course what else? Let the game be as it is and have fun.
Hey Mithrandir, it's me Ioahn Stonecast, Paladin =)
Arent u the leader of Eternal Radiance?
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Cheaters never win and winners never cheat!
PanthaPower
10-04-2002, 00:17
A
TenkiKiller
10-04-2002, 00:21
d
Niccolomachiavelli
10-04-2002, 01:03
So does anyone else agree that revolts should be confined to peasants of varying quantity/quality? I'd rather have to fight off 1000 peasants than 400 advanced troops which pop up within a single turn. And it would furthermore be alot more realistic.
moldndecay
10-04-2002, 01:13
Quote Originally posted by Niccolomachiavelli:
So does anyone else agree that revolts should be confined to peasants of varying quantity/quality? I'd rather have to fight off 1000 peasants than 400 advanced troops which pop up within a single turn. And it would furthermore be alot more realistic.[/QUOTE]
A, but they need the patch tweek.
I think maybe 2 or 3 units of good troops representing the dissenting barons/leaders then the rest peasants or militia. Definately not RKs or such.
Cardinal
10-04-2002, 01:19
Quote Originally posted by moldndecay:
I think maybe 2 or 3 units of good troops representing the dissenting barons/leaders then the rest peasants or militia. Definately not RKs or such. [/QUOTE]
Agree, though I still vote A.
A A A A A A A!!!!
I love the different revolts.
Catholics with knights...
Muslims with Ghulams...
Peasants with... ehhh... Peasants...
Bandits with... GAAAAAAH!!!!
Heretics with Fanatics
And lastly the Orthodox with they variety of nobles.
Ahhh the diversity
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Yagyu Jubei
10-04-2002, 02:00
I have been enjoying the revolts....
As the Almohads I have all of Africa....took Spain and France and most of Germany..Some of England and almost all of Italy...on the other side,,,wrapped around to Const...and up around Khazak too....I admit I am playing on the easy settings since I just got the game and am trying to figure out all the new goodies...but so far it seems as if I would have taken over the world already if it wasn't for the revolts and uprisings and all......Yeah it would be more realistic to have it just be a couple or maybe even one elite unit with the rest peasantry,,,,but I learned to keep a good garrison of cheapo units and it seems to cool things off....a few Imams and spies and other agents help too.......
Sor far I love the game just as it is.....
I think that we all to often try to get things changed in these games without figuring out how to deal with them the way they are in the first place......We always want patches and things....Don't get me wrong....I had all the patches for the other two games....I had to so I could play online with everybody else....I was still having fun dealing with the Hojo Horde back in the day though......
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Watashiwa Yagyu Jubei desu! Ganbate!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
If you really like revolts, rebellions and really, really nasty revolutions-- download my mod, named MOYA.ZIP from the org downloads.
If like now non realistic NO - B
If more realistic YES - A
[This message has been edited by todorp (edited 10-04-2002).]
Hakonarson
10-04-2002, 04:30
A
they're quite realistic IMO, and make the game nicely unpredictable!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
LittleGrizzly
10-04-2002, 04:33
c
im playing on expert but store peasents in every region and have no problems at all even when excommunicated
had that recently after taking out france germany declared war on me by launching a crusade everyone cancelled thier alliances with germany and joined me it was a full army crusade so to get revenge went on a pillaging spree and took out the chapter house where they launched it from by accident http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif (currently finishing off germany)
Dionysus9
10-04-2002, 04:56
A.
I haven't had anything but realistic problems yet.
Jo_Beare
10-04-2002, 05:17
E
I would rather see more civil wars and less respawns. I think that would be more historicaly accurate. I think the computer should also try to bribe your generals. That might force the human player to look at loyalty more on a level with command.
JoBeare
A
D, it will be in the patch.
E, nice addition.
D
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Rosacrux
10-04-2002, 14:19
A!
but, E ain't bad too... i play on expert anyways
[This message has been edited by Rosacrux (edited 10-04-2002).]
A
but I can live with E (I play on expert)
Dark_Magician
10-04-2002, 14:45
Quote Originally posted by Niccolomachiavelli:
If *I* cant raise 5 units of 60 Nubian Spearmen in a single turn, neither should the rebels be able to. I dont see how its logical that a bunch of rebels can instantly produce large numbers of trained units. In all frankness most rebellions should be limited to peasants. Maybe you could make them high valor, moral armor, weapon peasants, but they should *not* be advanced troops. Peasants, just peasants
(all that meaning "B")
[This message has been edited by Niccolomachiavelli (edited 10-03-2002).][/QUOTE]
It depends on who actually rebels. If it is local aristocracy, they can have feudal knights and crossbowmen abundantly, it's their own troops. They are sort of conspirants, when peasant rebellions are sort of spontaneous
This difference is not made well, however, in my opinion in the game.
Lord of the Isles
10-04-2002, 14:51
A)
Mithrandir
10-04-2002, 18:07
I just quited a HRE easy campaign because it was too boring since all I was doing is pushing back revolts, now the french have reappeared in 5 or so provnces with major troops, there are also 5 peasant revolts,1 muslim revolt and several other revolts, in total some 15 or so...
THE MAIN THING I THINK SUCKS :
I've got at least 2 spearman units (often more with archers etc.) in every single province, tax rate is max at normal...
I think you should be able to switch it off... that'd be the best solution imo.
I dont like the game as it is now. I'm able to win every battle, but I cant attack my enemies and I have to let the AI do most of my battles since I get bored with battles when I have to fight 6 of them every turn...
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Soapyfrog
10-04-2002, 19:34
Mithrandir sounds like you are biting off more than you can chew.
Newly conquered provinces must have a large garrison (or a mass of spies) for a long time to prevent immediate rebellions.
Some specific provinces are much more volatile than others, e.g. Portugal, Prussia, Livonia (and there are others) and usually require a large permanent garrison for a very long time.
Lastly make sure your king has easy access to all parts of you empire. This will drastically improve your loyalty. e.g. if you king is sitting in Switzerland, expect your border provinces to be rebelling quite frequently... better put him in a port province (Venice or Saxony) with ships strung everywhere.
Kingmaker
10-05-2002, 01:00
A
If anything, it's TOO easy to build a massive empire without rebellion (it rarely happens to me, as long as I'm careful). Just ask the English if it's easy to maintain loyalty in Scotland and Ireland.
Kingmaker
ToranagaSama
10-05-2002, 02:36
The above two posts are the basic receipe to prevent rebellions. Just check your loyalty in each province every turn without fail. Any change in loyalty requires a response from you; and simply slow down. Unless your an exceptionaly good Rusher, you won't be able to finance your expansion thru conquest. You must develop trade, which takes time. So another reason to slow down. Also, slowing down allows you develope more advance unit; and it also allows the AI to develope its game for greater challenge.
Soapyfrog
10-05-2002, 02:41
I should note that I do not check my loyalty in every province every turn. Far from it.
Rather I check loyalty in newly conquered provinces, and I check loyalty affects when my naval transport net gets disrupted.
I never suffer unexpected rebellions, and I hardly ever suffer rebellions at all.
Mithrandir
10-05-2002, 02:42
I pressed Shift every turn, where it was yellow, I'd make sure the taxes would go as low as needed and a garison was doubled.Also I had a border fort, in EVERY province as well as 2 units of pikeman and often even more... sometimes I had a garrison of around 600 quality men,normal taxes in a province I owned since the first years of my conquest, still they'd rebel...
I still think it should be an option to turn mass rebellion on or of, or get rid of them all together...
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Soapyfrog
10-05-2002, 02:44
Mith, could you post some savegames of these unexpected rebellions occuring?
I've never had core provinces rebel.
AcePylut
10-05-2002, 03:41
Quote Originally posted by Mithrandir:
A)Yes
B)No
C)Don't care
New!
D)Patch it so they're not as powerfull and dont happen quite as often as now.
E) Patch it so they only occur in the hard & very hard game modes.
I ask this because I dont like them and many other people don't, if there are enough votes on no, maybe the devs can "patch" it ?
A simple, A,B or C will do http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.
Thanks,
Mithrandir.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I like mass rebellions. The first camp I played, I was pissed when I lost 3/4 of the map due to rebellion.
Then, I learned to watch my far flung provinces closely, appoint high loyalty/dread/acumen commanders to those provinces, alter taxes accordingly, win battles instead of lose them, use priests,bishops, emmissaries... build peasent garrisons, build churches/monasteries(happiness bldgs), eliminate those commanders with bad happiness vices, and not attack catholic provinces unless provoked first(if playing catholic).... to remove those rebellions from happening.
Since the first failed campaign, I haven't had a mass rebellion yet. Yeah, I've lost a province or two here and there, but nothing like the "1 Turn all provinces rebel".
Current camp I'm English/Early/Hard. I control 3/4 of the map (1300 AD) and have only lost 1 province to a rebellion that I wanted to. I had to pull guys out of the Crimea to defend against the Hungarians attacking Kiev. It revolted, it was crushed the next turn.
After the Ahlomeds attacked me (they had all of Western Europe all the way to Poland, and across N. Africa to Turkey, I pretty much controlled the rest) I took out thier navy (barques kick dhows butts - I'd lose 1 ship for every 8 of theirs). Once their navy was gone, I send a solitary army on a rampage through their territory in a rear assault. After conquering a province and assaulting the castle, I destroyed everythign in it and moved to the next province.
Still, by paying careful attention to each province, I haven't had the mass rebellion, and I haven't been excommunicated.
So, if you're having a problem with mass rebellions, it's not a game error, it's a player error. Pay more attention to those 'worthless' units - for they actually do something http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.
AcePylut
10-05-2002, 03:44
Another thing to help keep loyalty up... don't go around killing all the prisoners.
I did this against the Ahlomeds over three ro four turns in all the battles I was fighting, and my loyalty across the nation dropped like 10-20%.
Warmaker
10-05-2002, 11:33
B
Rebellions in the current state is ridiculous. You're telling me that a ruined faction can respawn with more and better troops than it ever had at the height of it's former power and glory? That's B.S. and as pleasant as passing a kidneystone.
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There's no such thing as overkill, just ensured victory!
nightcrawler_35
10-05-2002, 21:42
Definately B!! Ive unistalled the damn thing cos heirs keep bloody appearing! Its a very good game but just too fustrating!
A rebel uprising of a few peasants with some local lord to lead I can understand in some poorly managed provinces - but hiers who were stomped 20 years ago reappearing in 5 or 6 provinces with full armies of royal knights!?! No! And these are in provinces with the lowest tax rate and over 500 men sitting in each one?! Taking the p*ss!!
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