Random RTW crazyness

[Spartan198]

This topic was inspired by a really,really funny happening in RTW today.
I was assaulting a Roman-held fort and had my archers playing "Romans in a Barrel" when the fort commander rushed his bodyguards to the wall closest to me. One unit of archers launched a volley of arrows and all but one struck the fort wall. That last arrow flew over the wall and hit,of all individuals,the Roman commander himself in the chest just as he reared his horse back on its hind legs,causing the animal to rear all the way up and fall backwards before dying. :laugh4:
I know this might seem mundane,but I had to pause the game until I stopped laughing so I could effectively command my troops.

Do any of you have any funny,ironic,or crazy but entirely random happenings you'd like to share?

PS - I took the fort and lost only one hoplite doing so. :2thumbsup:

[Quirinus]

Something like that happened to me once, only that I didn't find it so funny because it happened to my commander. My general was struck down by the wooden wall defenses while chasing a routing troop. D= I restarted the battle right after that.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Hahaha... mirth!

Anyways not really as funny but more immensely lucky. One time as the Kingdom of the Parthians I was fighting endless Scipionic full-stacks with my experianced army, (led by my only commander ever to be called the Horseman... I was amazed). Anyways after winning two heroic victories in a row (in one turn) their faction heir (Gaius Marcellus, at least its similar to a historical character) rocked up with another full-stack with a half-stack of reinforcements. Somehow I managed to win again, but during the fighting, Marcellus and his bodyguard were surrounded and broke. He still had a sizeable bodyguard and I didn't want him coming back so I immediately set three units of HAs chasing him to run him off the map.

He was actually out of range you could see the arrows (hundreds of them falling well-short). Anyway just as he reached the edge of the map one single arrow (that I could see) soared into the middle of the pack of Romans and hit Marcellus between the shoulderblades, and bang he was gone.

I was in shock for the next five minutes. Thats not supposed to happen!!!!

Thats also the moment I decided to start a new campaign, (even the Gods were with me... absolutely no challenge... lol).

[Quirinus]

Was that bad? I would be ecstatic.... haha.

I remember once, in a BI bridge battle versus the Huns, I was winning, and chasing the routing enemy across the stream when I suddenly got a message that my general has drowned. After surviving and defeating the Huns many times, he drowns. Still, it was a hard-fought battle, and he was old anyway, so I let him go.

[The Wandering Scholar]

Must have wanted a cool down after all that fighting but forgot he still had all his armour on.

[Punicus]

Was I going crazy, or have I seen weak units that are forced to man the walls in a siege jump off and commit suicide rather than fight? I remember that and remember laughing at it too, lol.

Also, I love seeing how high I can make an enemy soldier go flying when he's charged by cavalry, chariots, elephants, etc. I once made a Roman soldier fly higher than the walls of a large city!

[Shieldmaiden]

During a Julii campaign against Spain, General Flavius - the Conquerer of Gaul, Germania, and Britain, Faction Leader with command stars and cool traits coming out of his butt - did battle a tiny army of Bull Warriors and riff-raff with an Onager, outnumbering them 10 to 1.

Naturally, the 1 Onager shot they fired before getting flattened hit Flavius right on the bonce, crushing him.

There's probably a lesson in that :dizzy2:

[The Wandering Scholar]

Onagers are great for targeting enemy generals

[The Wandering Scholar]

Playing as Scipii I sieged Carthage, they had a full stack with 2 units of ellies, I had half a stack of general, hastati/princeps and missiles (velites and merc peltasts) I fought off their infantry on the walls and lined my forces up. They ran their ellies around by the walls en route to the town centre, I set infanty/ missiles to fire at will, both ellies went amok about 8 intotal straight through their forces who were coming from the centre to the walls, on normal unit sizes around 300 perished turning the battle to my favour. You should of seen those ellies!!

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

During a Julii campaign against Spain, General Flavius - the Conquerer of Gaul, Germania, and Britain, Faction Leader with command stars and cool traits coming out of his butt - did battle a tiny army of Bull Warriors and riff-raff with an Onager, outnumbering them 10 to 1.

Naturally, the 1 Onager shot they fired before getting flattened hit Flavius right on the bonce, crushing him. That sounds exceedingly familiar. Many a time my general has had a huge rock hurled at him, and many a time it has hit him directly. When I've tried it against the enemy general, the projectile has rarely managed to hit even a single one of his bodyguard - never mind the general himself.

On one occasion, however, I decided to try and dodge these missiles. I saw one a rock coming directly in my eight star general's direction. When the missile got closer, I concluded this it would probably hit somewhere around where the general was currently standing, so I moved him out of the way in the hope of preventing his death. Lo and behold the stone hits exactly where I moved him to, resulting in him instantaneously ending up massacred.

:wall:

[Caius]

I fought the same battle twice due to problems, and twice my general got owned. Roman catapults are bugged.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Was I going crazy, or have I seen weak units that are forced to man the walls in a siege jump off and commit suicide rather than fight? I remember that and remember laughing at it too, lol.


This kindof thinhs are not funny when they happen to you :wall:
I had a hoplite unit on the wall when the enemy broke through my walls .. I then ordered the hoplite unit to go down so they could go and defend the hole ... but what they did?? :furious3:
over a half of the unit jumped down from wall and got killed!!!:wall: :furious3:
I won the battle but deleted that unit in the camp map .. sometimes the shortest way to somewhere is not the best one!!!!:no: :thumbsdown:

[Hannibalbarc]

I once had one of my onagers fire a large flaming rock at the enemy general only to hit just wide of unit, but the unfortunate general standing a little to the left of the unit got the flaming ball of death square in his chest, it's kind of hard to believe how a large rock like that only kills one man and it turns out to be the general.

[TruePraetorian]

Playing in singleplayer, I was the Brutii. It was me vs Egypt. I lined up my men in perfect formations, mind you we both had nearly full stacks. He had arround 8 units of chariots. I advanced forward at walking pace...he moved his chariots. Instead of attacking me, he moved directly behind my cohorts, 2 of them urbans...they all routed instantly before the fight even began.

I was so shocked I had the screen on pause while I looked through the forums on how to stop a mass rout. This is where it gets funny.

Admitting defeat, I pressed the pause button to resume play. Please note, my entire army is routing. now, instead of attacking me with his chariots, he moved his chariots back to his own line, and astonishingly he sounded the retreat. His units were closer to the OOB line.

Results?
None of us lost any troops, I was declared the victor by average victory.

Now, that is odd.

[Quirinus]

That is odd. Don't you just lose the battle outright if all your units rout?

[The Wandering Scholar]

No, sometimes you do but sometimes they have to leave the battle area.

[Quirinus]

What determines whether you lose the battle instantly or get to see your rout play out first?

[placenik]

What determines whether you lose the battle instantly or get to see your rout play out first?
I suspect that AI also has END BATTLE/CONTINUE BATTLE choice, as human has when he routs enemy army. In first case you lost, in second you must run away first.

[el_dext0r]

one thing i've noticed that's absolutely crazy is the diplomacy, now, i've known the diplomacy has been flawed since like forever, but i've lost count of the times an opposing faction has bugged me and bugged me for an alliance only to attack one of my cities the following turn

maybe they're trying to lull me into a false sense of security.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Battles provide one team a victory when all of the enemy troops have either died, are current routing or have withdrawn manually from the field (passed the red line).

Due to this, the only possibility is that at least one of TruePretorian's units was either still being manually withdrawn or was still remaining standing on the field.
I suspect that AI also has END BATTLE/CONTINUE BATTLE choice, as human has when he routs enemy army. In first case you lost, in second you must run away first.The AI sadly doesn't have access to the ability to run down and destroy enemy troops. Due to this, I consider chasing down routing enemy troops when the battle is already won a bit of an unfair exploit.

~:)

[Permenion]

sorry going off topic, but Tomo are you from the Netherlands or from Belgium.? I have that strange feeling... am I right?

[RobN]

Yes, the diplomacy can be crazy. In my present Vandal campaign I cannot even give Corduba to the Huns even though they besiege it intermittently, and seem uninterested in anywhere else.

[The Wandering Scholar]

sorry going off topic, but Tomo are you from the Netherlands or from Belgium.? I have that strange feeling... am I right?

huh? yh but why?

[Caeser The III]

one time is a siege(greece vs. carthage or rome, cant remember)me being greece,(big walls)i ordered my troops to go down and hunt down the remaining troops, but my troops would go down 1 by 1 every like 5 minutes and i had my unit size set on huge, so it took like an hour for all of em to get down, really got me bored :bomb2: ( the remaining troops were hiding....)

[Vitellus]

Well, I"ve been on the other side of the onager-squishing-general thing. During my first Roman civil war ever, my veteran, but depleted, army squared off against a Scipii full-stack. The two sides were still manuevering for position when the Scipii general noticed a steadily growing shadow around him...

SQUISH. Ah, that was a good day.

One other mildly hum'rous incident was of my own making. I was Parthia, and I had an itty bitty empire out on the fringe of the map. I had a small garrison of horse archers and eastern infantry holding Palmyra, when a full-stack Egyptian army besieged it.

THe turn they assaulted, they sent a diplomat to the town, demanding I become a protectorate of Egypt. I promptly made a counter-offer with my little garrison: They ought to become a protectorate of ME. Nice show of defiance, I rather thought.

The Egyptians laughed and began their assault...But just as they got midway through the streets my relief army of about 5 Persian cavalry arrived and poured into the town behind them. n_n Not one Egyptian escaped.

[Quirinus]

one thing i've noticed that's absolutely crazy is the diplomacy, now, i've known the diplomacy has been flawed since like forever, but i've lost count of the times an opposing faction has bugged me and bugged me for an alliance only to attack one of my cities the following turn

maybe they're trying to lull me into a false sense of security.
Ugh, yes, I know what you mean. In my current Greek game, I didn't want the Romans as my enemy, so I evacuated Syracuse and tried to give it to them, only to have them refuse, and then attack it the next turn. :wall:

About your account, though, I think maybe it's because if the Huns got Corduba, they'd be forced to settle down, so maybe the diplomacy engine didn't want you 'trick' them into settling down.

[Shieldmaiden]

Unlike STW and MTW, RTW diplomacy feels quite disconnected to whats going on in the Campaign :wall:

Is it much better in MTW2 or..?

And back on topic... am I the only one to lose against Carthage because of Flaming Pigs stampeding away from the elephants? Hello smoky bacon, goodbye battle line!

[Quirinus]

I don't use them at all-- I find them a little too ahistorical for my taste, like wardogs and the German phalanx.

[Flying Pig]

The wierdest must be my 10 star commander, age 50, getting a HEART ATTACK and dying just before sounding the charge to bring his hippeis into a squad of routing legionaires!

[Permenion]

huh? yh but why?

"They ran their ellies around by the walls en route to the town " => you wrote this :yes:

but the fact is that you write Allies and not ellies
and and not en


Thats why I tought knowing where you come from, my neighbour (haha) lol
But don't be shamed :p I make mistakes too sometimes

[Mikeus Caesar]

Unlike STW and MTW, RTW diplomacy feels quite disconnected to whats going on in the Campaign :wall:

Is it much better in MTW2 or..?

And back on topic... am I the only one to lose against Carthage because of Flaming Pigs stampeding away from the elephants? Hello smoky bacon, goodbye battle line!

Yes, you're quite right about the diplomacy being disconnected - it works seperately from the military side of things, and thus they contradict each other frequently. Because MTW2 uses the same system, it has the same problems, albeit not on the same epic scales of stupidity.

Thankfully this is being fixed in ETW - a new AI, with diplomacy and military fully integrated together, so now the stupid thing will think through it's decisions before blindly charging into battle against your fully garrissoned capital city, with nothing but some peasants and a unit of archers.

[Punicus]

Thankfully this is being fixed in ETW - a new AI, with diplomacy and military fully integrated together, so now the stupid thing will think through it's decisions before blindly charging into battle against your fully garrissoned capital city, with nothing but some peasants and a unit of archers.What a relief, if I have a computer that can run ETW by that time it should be a breath of fresh air. Anyhow, back to the topic: has anyone else noticed how stupid the Egyptian AI specifically is? Even though the pharaoh bathes in gold, he insists on sending armies mostly of peasants, often throwing in a slinger or skirmisher unit or two. It's not like I see the fact that the AI is lacking the "I" part of its title as the crazy part, it's just that I see this with Egypt more than anyone else. Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

[Spartan198]

Unlike STW and MTW, RTW diplomacy feels quite disconnected to whats going on in the Campaign :wall:

Is it much better in MTW2 or..?

And back on topic... am I the only one to lose against Carthage because of Flaming Pigs stampeding away from the elephants? Hello smoky bacon, goodbye battle line!

No,Maiden,you're not. That's why I vowed never to use battlefield bacon ever again.

[Quirinus]

"They ran their ellies around by the walls en route to the town " => you wrote this :yes:

but the fact is that you write Allies and not ellies
and and not en


Thats why I tought knowing where you come from, my neighbour (haha) lol
But don't be shamed :p I make mistakes too sometimes
Haha, actually, I think Tom0 was referring to elephants when he said 'ellies'. And I'm pretty positive 'en route' was what he intended to write. :laugh4:

On-topic, Punicus, I dunno, from what I've seen, most large Egyptian armies have a core of Nubian spearman with maybe a couple of Nile Spearman thrown in, a whole lot of skirmishers, and one or two chariots, and the rest comprised of peasants. It's a pretty effective and cheap army composition, IMO. The chariots are the shock troops, the phalanx protect (to some extent) the skirmishers, the skirmishers pepper away at the enemy, the peasants absorb charges and missile fire. I hate fighting Egypt because of this, but I have to acknowledge that it's darn effective.

[The Wandering Scholar]

"They ran their ellies around by the walls en route to the town " => you wrote this :yes:

but the fact is that you write Allies and not ellies
and and not en


Thats why I tought knowing where you come from, my neighbour (haha) lol
But don't be shamed :p I make mistakes too sometimes


I am your neighbour That uis what I thought? And yes Quirinus is right

They moved their elephants around the bottom of the walls, they could have been manoevering them to the town plaza...

[Punicus]

On-topic, Punicus, I dunno, from what I've seen, most large Egyptian armies have a core of Nubian spearman with maybe a couple of Nile Spearman thrown in, a whole lot of skirmishers, and one or two chariots, and the rest comprised of peasants. It's a pretty effective and cheap army composition, IMO. The chariots are the shock troops, the phalanx protect (to some extent) the skirmishers, the skirmishers pepper away at the enemy, the peasants absorb charges and missile fire. I hate fighting Egypt because of this, but I have to acknowledge that it's darn effective.
Interesting, in my campaign as Pontus their full stacks are much less of a challenge. It's not that I haven't encountered tougher units like you have in earlier campaigns though, but they just seem to be acting strange this time around.

[Celt Centurion]

During a Julii campaign against Spain, General Flavius - the Conquerer of Gaul, Germania, and Britain, Faction Leader with command stars and cool traits coming out of his butt - did battle a tiny army of Bull Warriors and riff-raff with an Onager, outnumbering them 10 to 1.

Naturally, the 1 Onager shot they fired before getting flattened hit Flavius right on the bonce, crushing him.

There's probably a lesson in that :dizzy2:

Ah, gave him a "pounding headache"eh?

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Spartan198]

Ah, gave him a "pounding headache"eh?

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

I woulda' said "a crushing weight on his shoulders". :laugh4:

[The Wandering Scholar]

I woulda' said "a crushing weight on his shoulders". :laugh4:

Ironic that balls ended the life of an adultering Roman :clown:

[Spartan198]

That's a good one,too. :laugh4:

[Hound of Ulster]

wow, this thread just crashed and burned.

Whenever I use Parthia I always have fun. Every victory is heroic victory because I send all-cav formations against all-infantry Seluekid units...
I cut through them like a hot knife through butter.

My most bizarre RTW moment was when my general (using the Britions) got clocked in the head by...a severed head thorwn by one of my head hurlers:jawdrop:

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

It always gets annoying when friendly fire hit your own generals, although it's worse when it collides with him after the battle is theoretically over.

My General's Bodyguard had five men left in it, and was chasing after the remains of a few Roman Hastati while my other units dealt with the two still surviving units which were attacking my frontline.

This was fine, but, in the woods nearby I had placed some skirmishers which I had totally forgotton about. Worst of all, they had fire at will turned on, so, when the enemy Hastatii wondered past, they fired two vollies at them. The General lost two more bodyguard units, and the second volly hit and killed the General himself.

This was fortunately a useless two star general in him mid fifties, so he wasn't really of too much use to me. Also I had about fifty other Generals still fighting on my behalf, so I didn't really have too much to worry about.

~:)

[Spartan198]

This was fine, but, in the woods nearby I had placed some skirmishers which I had totally forgotton about. Worst of all, they had fire at will turned on, so, when the enemy Hastatii wondered past, they fired two vollies at them. The General lost two more bodyguard units, and the second volly hit and killed the General himself.~:)

At least it happened after you'd won,right? :beam:

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

At least it happened after you'd won,right? :beam:I'd theoretically won, but not actually won won, if you know what I mean. The AI had an odd few men still alive and not routing, although they were quickly getting munched up by my main force.

~:)

[Hound of Ulster]

accidents happen in warfare. As long as you one the battle its ok.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

I was once laying seige with my 4, count' em, 4, armies of Carthage to Rome when the last Roman was fighting off my whole army on the wall. I zoomed in really close and I actually saw him jump off the wall. Plus as he fell one of my archers arrows hit him right through the middle and when he finally hit the floor a battalion of War Elephants trampled him.

Crazy or WHAT!

[The Wandering Scholar]

Count what? Hard to believe without evidence that one.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

I've just remembered another funny thing that happened to me.

My army wasnt commanded by a general. Just a hoplite captain on foot, and (since i'm very brave, or very stupid) I always command at the front. It was a long time ago and the first assault i had done.

I made my catapults fire at the wall and i lined up my men behind the part of the wall I was attacking so that when the wall came down I could storm into the city.

Sadly i didnt win this battle for the reason that my men were savage mercenaries and fled at the first sign of trouble. The sign in this case being the stone wall falling and crushing everyone in my generals unit.

Oops!

[Shieldmaiden]

Sadly i didnt win this battle for the reason that my men were savage mercenaries and fled at the first sign of trouble. The sign in this case being the stone wall falling and crushing everyone in my generals unit.

*Sings* Ramparts Keep Falling On My Head

[Spartan198]

I was once laying seige with my 4, count' em, 4, armies of Carthage to Rome when the last Roman was fighting off my whole army on the wall. I zoomed in really close and I actually saw him jump off the wall. Plus as he fell one of my archers arrows hit him right through the middle and when he finally hit the floor a battalion of War Elephants trampled him.

Crazy or WHAT!

That's gotta be one of the funniest things I've ever read. :laugh4:

[gaiusmarius8]

Dude, I was the Seleucids in a Custom Battle and the Onager was only a couple ways behind my general. The boulders flung in a perfect arc over his head at the enemy, then one rock just smashed smack dab into my general! I was like WTF? :furious3:

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I was once laying seige with my 4, count' em, 4, armies of Carthage to Rome when the last Roman was fighting off my whole army on the wall. I zoomed in really close and I actually saw him jump off the wall. Plus as he fell one of my archers arrows hit him right through the middle and when he finally hit the floor a battalion of War Elephants trampled him.Nasty bug that one, although I've never seen a captain/general decide to take the quickest route to his destination rather than taking the stairs. It sound like an event that would have made a very good screenshot.
Dude, I was the Seleucids in a Custom Battle and the Onager was only a couple ways behind my general. The boulders flung in a perfect arc over his head at the enemy, then one rock just smashed smack dab into my general! I was like WTF? :furious3:Onagers are something you definitely have to be careful with - little problems such as this occur quite frequently. If you are using flaming projectiles, which further hampers their accuracy, even more so.

~:)

[Spartan198]

Onagers are something you definitely have to be careful with - little problems such as this occur quite frequently. If you are using flaming projectiles, which further hampers their accuracy, even more so.

~:)

I remedy that by placing my onagers directly behind my infantry line,ahead of missile troops.

[gaiusmarius8]

Hehe, I'll tell you something, and Ill give you a screenshot of it before it happened. One of my Companion Cavalry (Seleucids) actually got the Pontic general in the head and actually died!

https://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s51/gaiusmarius8/CompanionCavalry.jpg



It. was. Awesome! :laugh4:

[The Wandering Scholar]

Is that a noob box?

[Spartan198]

Ouch!

[carbz]

r those pirate mercs in the screenshot? or those galdiator dudes.

The pirate mercs make me laugh, they are not very good (moderator edit), dontthink ive ever seen the AI have them in an army. That would make me laugh.

and yeah, have you got the elephants in the circle around the general? someone lays some fire arrows on them it would be carnage, that would be a good screen shot!

edit, oh no i can see the ellies in the background.

[Quirinus]

Those are Cilician pirates, I think. I find them okay mercs-- their harpoon is pretty decent I find, and, combined with their speed, they make good light flanking troops.

I think the 'box' The Wandering Scholar was referring to was the phalanghite box-- a bunch of phalanx pikemen facing outwards from one another, forming a very spiky 'box' that is nigh impregnable.

[Spartan198]

Yeah,I like the Cicilian Pirates,too. An armored version would be cool,as well.

[carbz]

does no one else find the thought of a load of Johnny depp look alikes coming up against armoured elephants sligthly strange then?


yeah the armoured box is a bit unfair isnt it, i have read about that as a tactic but sod that,

[Hound of Ulster]

All grouping your hopilites closer together does is make them easier for archers to kill.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

Of course not. If anything they're better defended in my experiance but hey...thats one opinion!:yes:

[Emperor Mithdrates]

thats good. i couldnt have thought of that one!:2thumbsup:

[Emperor Mithdrates]

yeah the armoured box is a bit unfair isnt it, i have read about that as a tactic but sod that,[/QUOTE]

Hey thats a mint tactic. i once had a 300 experiance near Athens and my 4 spartan Hoplites manages to defend my general (whilst in box formation) from 200 Gladiator and town wath militia.

[Spartan198]

does no one else find the thought of a load of Johnny depp look alikes coming up against armoured elephants sligthly strange then?

Yeah,that does seem just a teeny bit unusual. Personally,I'd prefer to send a load of Orlando Bloom lookalikes at the same war elephants,but that's just me.


yeah the armoured box is a bit unfair isnt it, i have read about that as a tactic but sod that,

I prefer to just form up a line and march a forest of spears at my opposition.

[Quirinus]

All grouping your hopilites closer together does is make them easier for archers to kill.
It doesn't.... you know it. I distinctly remember you remarking (sarcastically I presume) that making a phalangite box in MP would make the player real popular. With the implication that the phalangite box is unbeatable/extremely unfair.

Do the Cilician pirates look like Johnny Depp? Haha, I haven't noticed that, I have to look out for that next time. Imagine, a bunch of Jack Sparrows screaming "BUT WHY IS THE RUM GONE?!?" at the party-pooper Romans who burned all their wine. :laugh4:

[carbz]

It doesn't.... you know it. I distinctly remember you remarking (sarcastically I presume) that making a phalangite box in MP would make the player real popular. With the implication that the phalangite box is unbeatable/extremely unfair.

Do the Cilician pirates look like Johnny Depp? Haha, I haven't noticed that, I have to look out for that next time. Imagine, a bunch of Jack Sparrows screaming "BUT WHY IS THE RUM GONE?!?" at the party-pooper Romans who burned all their wine. :laugh4:



hahahaha thats the spirit!

tbh they look nothing like johnny depp, i just cant get past the fact they are pirates, armed with harpoons no less!

as for the box being a mint tactic, i dont doubt it. Just seems a tiny bit boring to me. Im not gonna get all neeky and say "its not historically accurate," i just thinik if i used it and it was awesome, it would kinda ruin the game for me tactically cos i would always have to use it. Its a bit like reading the thread about siege towers and ballistas, i now never bother to upgrade stone walls, and indeed never bother to defend said walls, just form a phalanx at the choke points of the main square.

sure its my choice, free will and all that, but the walls thing is a no brainer, theers more choice in field battles.

i think phalanx units are quite well protected against arrows arent they? certainly if they arent moving, i thought the pikes overhead afforded some protection from inbound arrows.. Myabe im just making that up though.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

The box formation does have it's vulnerabilities. Although placing archers in the centre negates this slightly, the AI do try their very best to hit the units with the backs facing towards them. Ballistic units and other siege weapons are especially problematic when this happens since they have an exceedingly long range. There also is the risk of an especially powerful push breaking through a weaker unit and causing havoc within the box's centre.

~:)

[carbz]

yeah im thinking about a few well placed fireballs from an onager, or a rock taking out a sidefacing row.

[placenik]

Too bad that in Armored box case AI wasn't programmed to fire all his missiles and then orderly retreat.
And than attack again.
And again
And again
....

[Quirinus]

The box formation does have it's vulnerabilities. Although placing archers in the centre negates this slightly, the AI do try their very best to hit the units with the backs facing towards them. Ballistic units and other siege weapons are especially problematic when this happens since they have an exceedingly long range. There also is the risk of an especially powerful push breaking through a weaker unit and causing havoc within the box's centre.

~:)
Very true, especially the last possibility, though I find that it doesn't happen a lot with better quality hoplites. It happens a lot with militia hoplites, sometimes in Greek hoplites, and armoured hoplites only in the most heated pushes. Is it coincidence, or is there an actual effect like that in the game?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Yes - it's primarily effected by their morale status which you can see by right clicking on their unit card at any time on the strategic map, and when paused on the battle map.

Armoured Hoplites, for example, have a morale status of eight, while Hoplites have a morale status of four. Militia Hoplites have a morale status of two, making them vastly more likely to rout when the going gets tough. Spartan Hoplites have morale of fourteen, which is one of the highest ratings in the game.

Another factor is unit strength overall. Morale is the key factor, but this plays a role as well in the chances a unit has before it runs for its life. The higher the units attack and defence, the less casualties it will take and the more casualties it will inflict on its foes. If the enemy are killing them faster than they can kill the enemy, the chances are they will gradually waver till they route. Morale then takes over - the lower the morale, the faster this happens.

~:)

[gaiusmarius8]

Noob Box :lol: I guess so, but I did this to get screenshots which I did for like 2 hours :lol: I wasnt aiming to totally wipe their armies out.

[Spartan198]

i thought the pikes overhead afforded some protection from inbound arrows..

I don't mean to break from the topic at hand,but that's not historically accurate. The overhead pikes of the Macedonian syntagma provided very little protection,if any at all,from missile fire. That's one of two things that,in my opinion,makes the so-called Macedonian phalanx inferior to that of the Greeks. I'd rather have a large,heavy hoplon (see note below),rather than a small pelta,on one arm to hide behind in an arrow shower. The other being that I'd rather fight with a 9-foot dori that's useful in close combat when I'm flanked,than an 18-foot sarissa that'll be utterly useless for that same situation. :2cents:

(Note - I know that's the wrong word,I just simply use it to distinguish said weapon from the older-style hoplite shield with the single grip in the center.)

[Quirinus]

Yes, but in the game they do, I think, and both the regular hoplites and the Macedonian phalanx switch to secondary weapon in close combat.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Regarding the defence of hoplites against missiles compared to pikemen, I, like SpartanGlory198 have found hoplites to be more effective than the pikemen. Levy Pikemen are particularly vulnerable, not having any armour in their stats to protect them.

This does seem to be partially negated by additional numbers though - although a Levy Pikeman unit may take slightly more casualties when under fire than their equal class of hoplite unit, Militia Hoplites, the percentage of the unit removed is equal to or slightly less than that the hoplite suffers.

When it comes to the effectiveness of the pikes/spears fending off missiles though, I'm not quite sure of their effectiveness, although I'm inclined to say that, like SpartanGlory, that it may be fairly negligible amount.
Yes, but in the game they do, I think, and both the regular hoplites and the Macedonian phalanx switch to secondary weapon in close combat.This has always made me wonder - what happens to the big ten foot pikes when these units involve themselves in combat when out of the phalanx formation? Possibly could make a ridiculous, yet comical discussion.

~:)

[The Wandering Scholar]

They drop them?

[Emperor Mithdrates]

Regarding the defence of hoplites against missiles compared to pikemen, I, like SpartanGlory198 have found hoplites to be more effective than the pikemen. Levy Pikemen are particularly vulnerable, not having any armour in their stats to protect them.

I love hoplites and find pikemen ok, but I relly think that if they ever bring out a RTW2 they should give the helenics some unit types that arent long-spearmen. I need people who charge aroung with either short-spears or swords.

Hoplites are quite easy to flank.

[The Wandering Scholar]

Get yourself over to the advertisement thread Barca, oh brutii brutii brutii, you gotta love the brutii!

[Spartan198]

I love hoplites and find pikemen ok, but I relly think that if they ever bring out a RTW2 they should give the helenics some unit types that arent long-spearmen. I need people who charge aroung with either short-spears or swords.

Hoplites are quite easy to flank.

Have you played the Extended Greek Mod? That's what I'm currently engrossed in and it uses SignifierOne's animation pack with shield_wall (if you have BI.exe,that is),which gives traditional hoplite units an overarm phalanx with the ability to charge. It was simple to download and install even by my standards,which is saying alot because I can barely figure out how WordPad works! It adds new and enlarged unit rosters with Area of Recruitment ability (i.e.,the ability to recruit native troop types such as Greek hoplites,Iberian infantry,etc.) with any faction owning said area,a few new factions like Saba,Baktria,etc,a larger map extending to India,and so on. I definitely recommend it to anyone like me who enjoys vanilla Rome.

[Spartan198]

I just thought of a really crazy one that happened a few nights ago.

I was playing a sandbox siege of a small town with an army of Spartans against a horde of Eastern Infantry in XGM when,after the enemy's initial charge was routed by Spartan phalangites,I charged my Spartan Royal Bodyguard after a routing Eastern Infantry unit. They were intercepted,head on,by another Eastern Infantry that had sustained losses but not routed. The Spartans and Eastern contacted,only to have the Spartans pass right through them and literally trample them ALL into the ground without even raising their spears! It was hillarious,and a true test of Eastern Infantry's inferiority.

[The Wandering Scholar]

XGM is a great mod.

[Emperor Mithdrates]

I prefer to just form up a line and march a forest of spears at my opposition.

yes my friend, but in my personel experiance the computer aint dumb.
It knows your tactic and when i do it I always get out flanked. thats why I love the box formation. I group them once in a square therefore keeping them in possition when i move them.
this way my troops are protected on all sides.

[Spartan198]

yes my friend, but in my personel experiance the computer aint dumb.
It knows your tactic and when i do it I always get out flanked.

That same AI ain't exactly Alexander the Great,either!
That's where my relative over-reliance of cavalry comes into play. Once the initial fear factor wears off and my opponents begin their attempted flanking maneuver,lots of heavy cavalry on both of my wings quickly puts an end to that.
Plus,if you arrange your line in a reverse wedge before advancing,said enemy will more often than not focus directly on your center. When this happens,I'll order them to retreat,and the rest of the enemy army will typically abandon their positions and focus all attention to the gap left behind. When that happens,there's ample time (even in vanilla) to turn my infantry flanks inward and box them in on three sides.

Genius of the Athenians at Marathon,my friend.

[The Wandering Scholar]

I think you are mentioning a phlanax V shape with cav on the wings? that is a very good tactic if that is what you meant.

[Spartan198]

I think you are mentioning a phlanax V shape with cav on the wings? that is a very good tactic if that is what you meant.
Yeah,that's the one. But I place my cavalry behind the wings to prevent them from being prematurely engaged.