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stranger_2
10-06-2002, 06:09
I think U'd agree that it doesn't, as it was mentioned before and without much opposition. This can be really painful if U R playing a small faction on higher difficulty, but, what's more important, improving it could make the game even more entertaining & challenging.

1. ALLIANCES

First of all, to be allied with somebody doesn't really mean much in TWs. It's kinda "let's pretend we like each other untill I stab U in the back" and has neither serious advantages nor disadvantages, so:

1.1 one ally should be at least able to REQUEST help from the other if being attacked, if not simply get it

Problem: as Grif wrote, "you won't play by the same rules, disadvantaging the AIs [...] you play the Italians, use the French to crush the HRE, then you turn on the French and screw them.", so:

1.2 if U want to get something, then U should give something, so if someone wouldn't help his allies, then it should become less likely, that other factions would like to ally with him or help him (and maybe more likely if he would)

1.3 if somebody would attack his allies, then others should become more hostile towards him

If it'd be this way U'd have to pick & treat your allies wisely, cause U could get yourself into deep trouble both helping & not helping them. This leads me to a more general conclusion, that...

2. GOOD BOY, BAD BOY

...some kind of "Bad/Good Boy" mechanism should be added. I mean if somebody behaves badly, like attacks everyone around, brakes treaties and so on, then his BB value should rise, making others want to "kick the bastard". And if he behaves nice, then it should decrease it or his GB value should rise.

[does "badboy" remind U something? right, there was such mechanism in Europa Universalis. although TWs are simply the best, EU included some good ideas I'd also like to see in TWs]

2.1 maybe U should be also able to check if somebody likes or dislikes U then (spies?)


3. DIPLOMATIC ACTIONS, GIFTS & EXCHANGES

3.1 Sending money, princesses, maybe troops (?) should curry favor of other rulers. This was proposed by Alita (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/002325.html) earlier. Very good idea indeed, but favor doesn't really work right now. But if U would implement BB and checking favor, then
influencing it through diplomacy would make much sense.

3.2 U should be able to (secretely?) support one faction's war effort against another. It's obvious that U would rather want to have a neighbour weaker, not stronger, then U & so on. But this should cost U much and be risky, not to disadvantage AIs too much.

3.3 U should be able to try to convince (bribing is the only solution I can only think of http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif I mean) a faction not to support their ally in a war (most likely against U), or even

3.4 to attack another somehow (something else the bribing on your mind? nothing else on my vicious one http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif ). Costy&risky again (but much more), same reason.

3.5Insolent1 proposed (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/002450.html) handing over provinces. Seems strange, but might work if, for example, U R facing an attack by mulitiple factions. Then it could be wiser to give up a province or few to one of them, than to fight all. U would probably loose them anyway and they should be glad to omit the bloodshed.


Ok, I think this is long enough 4 now. I have some additional ideas, but the longer the post, the less poeple will like to read it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif . hope somebody will http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

---

grif, thanx 4 what U wrote on
friendly&hostile nations (http://http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/002484.html), I wouldn't write this otherwise http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by looser (edited 10-06-2002).]

Grifman
10-06-2002, 07:03
One solution to prevent the manipulating and screwing of AI's is to require treaties to last a certain amount of years, and no breaking of treaties allowed. That way both sides can prepare for what may follow after a treaty expires - or choose to renew. I know some people don't like this, it seems arbitrary and mechanical, but I think it's a fair compromise.

Grifman

Earl of Sweden
10-06-2002, 07:48
One punishment for attacking could be that HIS allies puts an trade embargo on you.

Pragmatic
10-06-2002, 09:21
I've found that, with an alliance, if your ally is suffering from rebellions (and possibly invasions?), and you invade in hopes of taking over the province in a three-way fight, you end up helping your ally.

I've also found that when two allied factions attack the same province at the same time, the one with the biggest army afterward gets the province. I don't know if you can direct allied units in battle, but if you can, send in your allies first. Then attack. If you can't, delay and let your ally take the losses.

Yoko Kono
10-06-2002, 17:44
you cant control ur allies in battle but it is fun top let them attack the enemy then as the enemy are breaking charge ur allies rear and take that province http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

stranger_2
10-06-2002, 21:07
right, but what with the proposals? U like'em? dislike'em? or maybe U think diplomacy shouldn't be changed at all?

theBlind
10-06-2002, 23:18
i like them.

insolent1
10-06-2002, 23:47
At the moment there is no diplomacy in the game to start with so any new introductions would be good. But this is a totalwar game so alliances should mean nothing http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif