Sab'yn Culture?

[Parallel Pain]

Ya EB researchers and anyone else who knows:

To help my AAR (if only a little bit) I need some information about the culture of Sab'yn.

And I am not very knowledgeful in this area

Wiki gave some, but not a lot.

So what are some Sab'yn culture and traditons?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Pre-Islamic Arabia is an area of expertise that has very few experts. There really isn't an expert for Sab'yn in EB right now...

[Geoffrey S]

But there are books. It's listed in the EB book guide topic, but what I found most accessible was Jean-François Breton's Arabia felix - from the time of the queen of Sheba. It doesn't quite cover the EB period, but describes the situation in south-western Arabia in general and quite a lot on religion in Saba. It's easily the most accessible work on the subject and readily available on amazon for a low price.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

But there are books. It's listed in the EB book guide topic, but what I found most accessible was Jean-François Breton's Arabia felix - from the time of the queen of Sheba. It doesn't quite cover the EB period, but describes the situation in south-western Arabia in general and quite a lot on religion in Saba. It's easily the most accessible work on the subject and readily available on amazon for a low price.
Definitely. And it was used as the primary source for much of our information on Sabaean buildings also.

[Geoffrey S]

A bit too closely though, perhaps? Some of the parts of the book sounded a little bit too familiar when compared with what I remembered of the EB descriptions, but I can imagine that being a difficult point to address as long as the team is incomplete for this faction.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Anything about the whereabouts of Qwery? :inquisitive:
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[Teleklos Archelaou]

A bit too closely though, perhaps? Some of the parts of the book sounded a little bit too familiar when compared with what I remembered of the EB descriptions, but I can imagine that being a difficult point to address as long as the team is incomplete for this faction.
It's difficult when you don't know much of anything about a group of ancient people but the person who was the FC bailed on you, and there is pretty much only one really accessible book about them in your language, and it is somewhat of a slender volume itself. But yes, point taken. :embarassed:

[Geoffrey S]

If it's any help, I've just reserved some books which I'll look through for anything useful. It does certainly seem most books are in French or German - though that makes it more difficult to find literature rather than reading it once found. I know of at least two local uni professors who are experts on Yemen, at least one of whom has recently given lectures on ancient waterworks. Time permitting I could ask around.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

If it's any help, I've just reserved some books which I'll look through for anything useful. It does certainly seem most books are in French or German - though that makes it more difficult to find literature rather than reading it once found. I know of at least two local uni professors who are experts on Yemen, at least one of whom has recently given lectures on ancient waterworks. Time permitting I could ask around.
I've even had emails back and forth with Breton himself - and I tried a number of grad students he suggested, as well as some other professors who specialize in the area. But none were interested in helping out in any way really.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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~:pat: I know the feeling. :wall:
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[Geoffrey S]

Right, here’s a quick overview of some things in the library. A bit messy but I don’t have a great deal of time right now. As always it’s difficult to find anything specifically relating to EB and there is a tendency to repetition. Most is well synthesized by Breton, but some of the following expands on various themes or provides a slightly different look at things.

- Beeston, A.F.L., Qahtan: studies in old South Arabian epigraphy Fasc. 3 – warfare in ancient South Arabia (2nd – 3rd centuries A.D. (1976). Is a brief yet interesting overview of inscriptions and what they may tell us about South Arabian armies.
- Groom, N., Frankincense and myrrh: a study of the Arabian incense trade (1981). In-depth look at the trade in spices and the roll South Arabia played in it. Relies heavily on textual sources and is somewhat dated. Contains quite a lot of information on agriculture.
- Hoyland, R.G., Arabia and the Arabs: from the bronze age to the coming of Islam (2001). This is a very general work on Arabia, geographically and in periodization. But it’s a decent overview and provides an interesting summary of how the region as depicted in EB fits into a larger picture, and may be of help for other parts of Arabia.
- Korotayev, A., Ancient Yemen: some general trends of evolution of the Sabaic language and Sabaean culture (1995). Gives an overview of the chain of command of the Sabaeans, possibly of use for traits.
- {of possible use) Phillips, W., Qataban and Sheba: exploring the ancient kingdoms on the biblical spice routes of Arabia (1955). Old and quite dated, but some interesting parts on some archaeology in the region.

I’ve also found Monuments of South Arabia by Doe, and Hellenism in the East[/I[ by Kuhrt and Shermin-White if information from those two is needed. I haven’t looked through them yet. Regardless, the general impression gained from these books is that specifics are hard to come by and for unit types a lot of information must come from later pre-Islamic periods. The most important matters of emphasis seem to be placed on water management and the very loose ties of culture rather than politics – both are matters which could be expanded on in EB, I think.

The following two works seemed most useful, so a little more information.

Beeston

The ESA [Epigraphic South Arabian] inscriptions of all periods contain numerous references to wars. But in the archaic period, down to around the beginning of the Christian era, these references afford us no insights into methods of warfare. Even the great Sirwah inscription R.3945 of Kariba’il Watar, recording victories on a scale which makes him a Napoleon of South Arabia, confines itself to saying that he “smote” (mhd) such-and-such a folk, and then goes on to list enemy casualties and detail the measures taken after the victory.
In the second and third centuries A.D., however, it became customary in the Sabaic-speaking area for all persons of distinction to give thanks for their successes – both military and otherwise – by dedicating a votive statuette, usually to the national deity [I]’lmqh in his shrine of Awa (now called Mahram Bilqis) a little way from Marib, or occasionally elsewhere to a local deity. These votive offerings were mounted on stone plinths containing an epigraphic record of the dedication and its motives, sometimes in general terms but often in great detail. It is to these texts that we owe our knowledge of the modes of warfare employed. p. 1
The above illustrates the problems with determining the methods of war in the time of EB. Although this is an older text and I’m not yet up to date on archaeology in Yemen it would appear that later periods are the best we have to go on.

The forces of a Sayhad state comprised three main elements: the khamis, the levies and the cavalry. p. 7
The next pages expand on this. The author argues that the khamis were a Sabaean ‘national’ force under the direct command of the leaders, possibly semi-professional. Levies from subject areas formed the second main part of battlelines, though the proportion in relation to the khamis is unclear. They fought in groups from particular communes, under their local ruler. Cavalry reportedly played but a minor role, apparently similar to the usage in Greece before Alexander – mainly as scouts, rarely in battle as distinct formations, and as part of infantry units.

Apart from that, the author also mentions the use of bedouin mercenaries, mainly from western Arabia. Also, Sabaean urban militia were used, but relatively rarely and separately from the khamis.

With regards to weaponry, the author states that the primary weapons were the lance and the sword, the latter being rare and costly and limited to nobility. The bow was used, but was principally a hunting weapon. Daggers and lances were the mainstay of most troops, with the dagger having a large symbolic value in oaths.

Aside from that the booklet contains a number of illustrative texts.

Korotayev
This book is mainly concerned with the Sabaic language and contains a number of useful points on how the area fit together. The lack of a Sabaean state as such becomes clear: it is largely a loose cultural zone consisting of communes (sha’bs, usually autonomous. The early 1st millennium B.C. saw a brief unification under Saba by kings gaining the title mukarrib. It all seems a quite confusing matter of semantics, but the book appears helpful in denoting the chain of command, correct titles. An emphasis is placed on the changing role of titles from state to clan and property rights inside clans.

The impression given is that the faction would benefit strongly from a system similar to that of Hayasdan. The was no state as such – mainly a strong cultural area with a weak Marib at its centre, but with enough cultural ties that conquest is feasible if in the game the time needed for consolidation is somehow represented. They certainly couldn’t get up and conquer.


Possibly promising is that someone mentioned there being a set of catalogues nearby, possibly illustrated. I'll check it out if time permits.

[Parallel Pain]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

So basically the game descriptions are about as good as I'm going to get anyway.