View Full Version : uncertain&even wavering without a reason...
Mithrandir
09-12-2002, 03:20
MY troops just started to get uncertain and even waver ,even though the enemy was on the other side of the battle field (after and engagement), My high honor general was right beside them,they were all happy because their flanks were covered but they were just wavering and being uncertain.
I attacked the enemy, used my arrowhead formation (all units backing eachother up), they weren;t even fired upon, but a single charge f mere peasants sent my whole army routing.
I had all decent troops, townsguards,abedisian guards,3 units of knights and a few units of camel warriors, I also had 45 units reinforcement http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif, but they too got uncertain when they aproached my general and other troops (no routing troops nearby anymore).
Could this have anything to do with killing the prisoners?
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Azmogeddon
09-12-2002, 03:35
Well my first guess is either the enemy general has very high Dread, or your general is a Coward. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Edit: If you can reload, hit F1 at the start of the battle and see what your units Morale is at.
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Azmo
[long-time lurker]
[This message has been edited by Azmogeddon (edited 09-11-2002).]
shokaku76
09-12-2002, 11:10
Teehee... I nearly wiped out the Turks, and noticed a stack of Sultan and his princes. The endgame, as I'd like to call it. King and his princes were major ass-kickers, with 6-7 command and 8-9 dreads. For kicks, I send in a coward -6 general in front of peasant army and a few men-of-arms. Heh heh... bloody peasants ran away like dogs, and men-of-arm fought for a while before turning tail when the general ran off. SO yeah, enemy general's ranking does matter.
Mithrandir
09-12-2002, 20:14
he had an honour of 8 ! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif, there's no way the dread could be so high that they start to WAVER although all conditions were in my troops favour....
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Red Inquisition
09-12-2002, 20:24
Did he have any vices that lowered morale?
DarknScaly
09-12-2002, 20:32
Quote Originally posted by Mithrandir:
he had an honour of 8 ! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif, there's no way the dread could be so high that they start to WAVER although all conditions were in my troops favour....
[/QUOTE]
Valour is only part of the picture - hit F1 to see their morale. A high star general can easily have bad V&Vs that make morale poor - low morale causes your troops to waver and even rout.
I was fighting the Almohads as Byz. Well, they insisted on sending the Sultan to invade my province several times. Problem was, he had a "coward" vice (-6 morale) plus a "good runner" (-3? morale).
All it took was several naptha explosions to send their armies of 1000's running for their lives. Quite hilarious. 4 invasions of Morocco all failed because of napthas and some arrows; no melee at all.
Of course I made sure that none of my archers touched that Sultan. He was too valuable.
I have this problem in my English campaign. I've got a Rank 6 general who's a coward. Last night while defending Lithuania from an attack my the Ruskies I had a hard time keeping my army on the field. This guy led an army that outnumbered the russians 2.5 to one but on first contact half my army ran.
I think its time to send in Guy of Gisbourne, my rank 7 assassin to get rid of this guy.
On a side not, a rank 7 assassin is a GOD. My boy Guy so far has killed 2 Almo kings, 3 Egyptian Kings and at least 20 Heirs from various factions. Now if Guy of Gisbourne is such a bad ass how come he couldn't kick Errol Flynn's ass in Robin Hood?
A bad vice in your general affecting Morale is probably to blaim. I'm playing the Turks and fought two battles with anti-morale vices. In both battles my men had negative morale. Had to be very careful to keep my men from bolting. One situation I had some calvalry charging downhill at some exposed archers, and 20ft from tearing them a new one the white flag went up and they ran away! I swore I was going to send that general to the furthest reaches of my empire for that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
My lesson learned: Never *EVER* trust a battle to a general with a negative morale vice!
Yoko Kono
09-12-2002, 22:36
but why do they get the bad vices so easily?
ive lots two outstanding generals i built up from 0 command, both got positive morale vices after winning many battles and then the game sh*ts on me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
the first faced up his army of 400 od against just over 2000
after routing the enemy several times we were driven off the field by reinforcements late on in the day and my general gets the 'good runner' vice, yet he has won about 20 battles and this was his first loss and in the face of overwhelming odds AND he killed/captured over 800 men
the second good general got his bad vice after i pulled his 600 man force out of a province after being invaded by 200 odd men
fearful of a repeat i wanted to reinforce and counter but my general got a 'eager to retreat' vice despite he charged a larger army in next turn and retook the province from a superier sized army
some times i feel the penalties for losing just one battle are too harsh and they should be overcome by winning more battles
Hey Jakel, good job on getting him there! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I wish I could keep my assasins alive past rank 4. I simply don't dare go and assasinate a person in a rival province. Those border forts kill my spies and assasins too often, and then there might even be counterintelligence.
I experienced the most interesting fun today.
I attaked with my king (not a bad general but he had some bad Vices) and a lowly general of rank 4 but with great Vices.
My king died fast (intentionally) and I thought my army would waver from it.
But NOOOO... They actually gained 2 Morale each, because of the general I think, at the same time they lost one Valour (the king was rank 7)... I ended up winning... That was great and the general got 'Expert Attacker' 2 to Command attacking. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.
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Dionysus9
09-12-2002, 22:46
Generals are getting the Good Runner vice too easily, I agree.
Well for some reason Guy of Gisbourne actually started out as a 4 star Assassin. Most of those heir/king kills came while the Egyptians had about 6 stacks full of heirs sitting in a province without towers/forts and Guy just had a field day whacking heirs/generals/kings there. It's awesome to drop him on an heir and have a 93% chance of a kill. On a couple of the king kills he had 50-70% chance to get the kills.
Mithrandir
09-12-2002, 23:11
my first sultan was a good runner and a coward, now all his children are cowards too, I outnumbered an enemy with 764 to 123 (123 attacking :eek http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif but my troops just routed as 3 knights appraoched. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/eek.gif
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I have found that the retreating vice is too easy to get and unchangeable...for example, once I had a province invaded and I had to leave the province or have the army wiped out...afterwards the general was a coward and useless...even if i did manage to use him in battle and win he would still be a coward...gluttony can be countered by flanking and chasing down routers...he will have the vice but will counter the valor loss with that gained but still, I would like the general to somehow prove himself so he can be useful
Beelzebub
09-13-2002, 01:04
Yoko I totally agree. I have a 4 star Italian general built up (4 star ain't great, but my royal line sucks so I'm not getting a steady stream of 8 star heirs). I invaded a spanish desert province with 1400 v 2000. I was doing decent, maybe 5:3 or so kill ratio, but my men were just too exhausted and depleted to overcome the final spanish reiforcements. My general was mounted sargeants who had been fighing VERY well gaining +3 valour so far in battle, but he got surrounded by 3 spanish units and after fighting for a while got routed and wasn't able to rally. This was near the end of like an 80 minute timer battle.
SO he picks good runner -3 morale vice?? cmon gimmee a break that's BS.
Yoko Kono
09-13-2002, 01:10
the annoying thing is that now all my heirs are born good runners despite having never fought battles, i even have one 15 year old year heir who is a good runner who is having an incestuous relationship with his daughter
he doesnt even have a daughter i mean hes only 15 and unmarried...
is there any way to force civil wars as i have men of royal blood with fantastic vices (great leader, gentle knight, mighty warrier) and would them to retstore the royal line to its former glory
Beelzebub
09-13-2002, 22:28
I've been taking some steps to do that with my weak Italian line. My king is 1 star, and most of his princes (about 5-6) were 0-2 star, but I managed to get one up to 3 and one to 4. I then assassinated or suicided all those others (the 3 and 4 star ones are young, in 20s and 30s, but if they were older, I would be risking the line). I'm hoping when they take over, they will start producing some decent heirs.
DarknScaly
09-13-2002, 22:33
Quote Originally posted by Beelzebub:
Yoko I totally agree. I have a 4 star Italian general built up (4 star ain't great, but my royal line sucks so I'm not getting a steady stream of 8 star heirs). I invaded a spanish desert province with 1400 v 2000. I was doing decent, maybe 5:3 or so kill ratio, but my men were just too exhausted and depleted to overcome the final spanish reiforcements. My general was mounted sargeants who had been fighing VERY well gaining +3 valour so far in battle, but he got surrounded by 3 spanish units and after fighting for a while got routed and wasn't able to rally. This was near the end of like an 80 minute timer battle.
SO he picks good runner -3 morale vice?? cmon gimmee a break that's BS.[/QUOTE]
When your troops are all totally exhausted they will rout.
Thus:
ALways keep this in mind and in protracted battles rotate your troops so they get to rest.
Remember that in desert conditions once exhausted heavy and amroured troops wont recover.
If it looks like you are about to be defeated then WITHDRAW your general - if he withdraws you wont get a bad vice.
- - -
Similarly - Eager to Retreat comes from not engaging the enemy at all (straight withdrawal froma province) - so dont do it. Fight part of the battle with some units making sure to keep your general clear and then withdraw after inflciting some casualties on the enemy - no bad vices.
because you were the general mith http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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