Armenia Succession PBM

[Zim]

Figured now that the game is under way we needed a real thread for it.

Faction: Armenia
H/VH
Maintain alliances with Orthodox Brethren
Players each have a 20 turn "reign".

Players:

Zim
Ramses II CP
Elite Ferret

[Zim]

I've finished the first reign. Not much to report. We are allied with Georgia and the ERE and have trade rights with all neighbors. During my reign Vahka and Famagusta were added to the Kingdom of Armenia, with the latter quickly becoming a major economic center.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/Armenia1.zip

[Ramses II CP]

I'll get started sometime today. :beam:

:egypt:

[Ramses II CP]

EF you're up, I saved it during the AI turn so you could see the start info:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/Armenia1194s.zip

Brief summary:

We're allied to the ERE, Georgia, KoJ, Makuria, and the Sindhi. We're at war with the Turks, who are almost done, and the Ayyubids, who are very strong. The Abbasids attacked us, but I gifted them Aleppo in exchange for a ceasefire because they're also very strong and I wanted to clean up our Turkish backfield first. I would suggest after the Turks are gone that you try to help the KoJ with the Ayyubids a little (I've tried to get the ERE in that war by gifting them a little town on the border) but focus on the Abbasids because Georgia is getting hammered by the Kypchaks, Abbasids, and Seljuks... and I mean hammered. If we don't save Georgia any advance into Ayyubid territory just gives the Abbasids a longer border to attack.

We only have one decent merchant, near Aleppo, and a few weak spies. Our Faction Leader is 60, but I already passed on his 'master of horse' badge and titles. Oh, and we have one ship that is holding closed an Ayyubid port down south. There are diplomats positioned near Georgia, the ERE, and in the Ghazni/Ghorid/Rajput region.

Oh, and we're sieging that Ayyubid castle north of Edessa.

Hmm, that about covers it. Our reputation isn't very good, evidently because I had to sack three Turkish towns to keep order and continue the war. Taxes are almost universally set low to allow for growth.

Any questions? I'll be doing a writeup, maybe this weekend, but I've got ~400 screenshots to get through so it'll take some time. :laugh4:

It's a fun situation, lots of possibilities. If Georgia falls, and I don't think we can save her, then I'm betting we and the ERE get a big old stew of Kypchaks and Abbasids with some Seljuks on the side against our north flank. Good luck! :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[Ferret]

gah already! I'll start straight away, prepare yourselves for the least productive reign this PBM will ever see :clown:

[Ferret]

dang Jerusalem has fallen already lol. Looks like I'm gonna have to declare war on the Abbassids eventually.

[Zim]

I don't know, I only gained two settlements for us, and both together aren't worth what Antioch is. :clown:


gah already! I'll start straight away, prepare yourselves for the least productive reign this PBM will ever see :clown:

[Ferret]

I'm gonna have to end my reign at ten turns as I really don't have time (more exams coming up next week and over the next few months). However in those 10 turns I have managed to detroy all of Ramses' hard work :clown:

The Seljuks were destroyed straight away, and an expidition is being prepared to take Alexandria (an army and fleet at our homelands).

I also drove through Ayyubid lands but had to bypass Damascus because of a huge garrison but went on to take Kerak (which will fall anyway) and then Gaza (which is cut off and surrounded by enemies.

Even more bad news came in Turkey. After the Turks were destroyed the Romans backstabbed us and grabbed tow of our settlements and would have wiped us out if I had not obtained a ceasefire (and one of their cities as revenge). We also lost our hold in Cyprus due to this betrayal.

Some good news is the Makurians are positioned to take Cairo which will help the Southern war effort.

Finally there are two more pieces of bad news, don't you just love bad news :clown: , firstly the abbassids have two massive armies besiging our Northernmost Province and will be able to blitz to our home territories if they are not held and Secondly the Georgians have been wiped out by the Kypchacks.

Good luck Zim: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/Armenia1198.rar

[Zim]

That is quite a lot of bad news for 10 turns. :clown:

I'll post a writeup thread tonight and as much of my turn as possible (to be finished over the weekend). :2thumbsup:

[Ramses II CP]

Oh wow, the outlook is, err, grim. Our economy was crushed by losing those four core cities to the ERE, who were at perfect relations just a few years ago! What caused 'em to go to war do you think?

If we can't get a true alliance back in the west we're either going to drive to Constantinople or get squished between the Abbasids and ERE. I'd give up those southern holdings if I were you Zim, they'll never be profitable and the KoJ is already pretty much dead. Your call. :shrug:

It'll be interesting to see where we are when I get my shot. :beam:

:egypt:

[Zim]

I'll figure something out (I hope). If not, then this can be one of the shortest pbms ever. :clown:

[Ferret]

all thanks to me, I'm such a great commander :clown:

[Zim]

FInsihed the writeup, although since I just editted a palceholder post, it's still at the bottom of the page. :clown:

I'll get to work on that save within the day.

[Ramses II CP]

I'll get mine up as soon as possible.

:egypt:

[Zim]

Geez, you weren't kidding when you said the situation was bad.

Played a little bit. Discovered spearmen suck pretty bad at almost anything but pinning (and I had to pick the faction in the BC hotseat with great spearmen and weak charge cavalry. :clown: ). I think I can guarantee we'll still be around come Ramses' turn, but can make no such guarantee regarding the condition Armenia will be in when he does.

[deguerra]

What time time limit on getting the turns done? (And I assume this is for BC?)

[Ramses II CP]

It is Broken Crescent, and I don't think we're in any kind of real hurry to get reigns done. I'd personally like for everyone who participates to write their turn up in some fashion, but otherwise it's pretty much open season.

:egypt:

[deguerra]

Well the only reason I never AAR is because I can never really drag myself to it when starting a campaign. Being in that frame of mind straight away should eliminate that. So if you're willing to have me, I'd love to try my hand at ru(i)n(n)ing Armenia.

[Ramses II CP]

Hah, you haven't had a look at the save yet, and I don't even know how Zim has done. If we can't turn things around the end might be nigh no matter how well you play. :skull:

:egypt:

[Zim]

About Armenia's chance of survival. Let's just say if I pull things through the map of Armenia will look very different...

[Zim]

Alright, while I'm no Ramses or askthepizzaguy when it comes to SP, let it never be said that I can't manage to do ok when backed into a corner.

https://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8932/image001rw1.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Armenia's center at the end of my reighn (check the minmap to see how thigns have changed).

https://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1214/image002fj9.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Me vs the Abbassids. This chart doesn't really tell the whole story, since we had some wierd borders from that bad war with the Romans, not to mention our territories in the Levant, which sucked up quite a bit of my military for garrison duty. Abbassids had over twice our military and our other enemy the Ayyubids were at least as strong as Armenia when I started.

https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2403/image004gv0.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

We have gone from 10th or so to 3rd in the faction rankings and own a nice Empire in the middle of the map. Next two potential targets are the Seljuks (easier) or Kypchaks (strongest faction), at least if we want to continue filling out the middle of the map.

Things are a bit of a mess I'm afraid. No money for the first 15 turns or so, then I started making tons of cash (after taking Baghdad, go figure. :clown: ). Buildings are queued in all settlements, but not neccesarily in the best order, and our armies are large but a bit motley. Started autoresolving my battles around 4 A.M. :sweatdrop:

We're at war with noone, and gained the Romans back as an ally. Kypchaks are not allies but we have good relations (they went to war with the Abbasids towards the end of the reign).

[Zim]

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/Armenia_1208.zip

[Ramses II CP]

Nice! That gets us closer to our goal of a Mongol war too, especially with the Kypchaks on favorable terms and the ERE back as allies.

I haven't fought the Abbasids much, but they're supposed to be one of the tougher factions. Very impressive Z. :2thumbsup:

I believe Deguerra was thinking about taking the next reign?

:egypt:

[Zim]

Thanks Ramses. I'll be honest, I pulled out every trick in my meager book. Using general's guards heavily against infantry armies (we never did get any other charge cav while I played, although Homs should be teching up to them), Using spies to open gates and take out their castles (and Baghdad eventually), attacking armies next to settlements to draw out the garrison, crushing their tougher armies between two of my full stacks, etc.

Should make for an interesting aar post, although it might take a while. So many battles...:dizzy2:

[deguerra]

well, I'd be happy to take it if thats ok with you Ramses

[Zim]

Got the first Mongol related even, they should be appearing during the next reign. If we want to get closer to them we'll have to conquer northeast fairly quickly (through Seljuk territory, Kypchaks are also fighting them so be careful).


Nice! That gets us closer to our goal of a Mongol war too, especially with the Kypchaks on favorable terms and the ERE back as allies.

[deguerra]

So in general what should I be aiming for? The Mongols were mentioned. Anything other than that?

[Zim]

We've been trying to stay allied to the Orthodox factions as much as possible, and maybe make it east to fight the Mongols. If you have other plans I wouldn't let those interrupt them. Each player can play out their reign however they see fit. :yes:

[deguerra]

Well looking at the saves two things spring to mind:

1. The Ayyubids are extremely vulneralbe. They are already being attacked by Markuria from the south. If we wanted, the KOJ and us could easily hit their already precariously overstretched empire.

2. The size of the Kypzchaks is insane. Scary, scary, scary. On the one hand that makes me want to stay away from them. On the other they must be contained! And they have old Armenia...

[Zim]

It's your choice. Taking the north coast of Africa might provide some nice trade between those provinces and southern Anatolia. Then again taking on the Seljuks before the Kypchaks can finish them off will contain the Kypchaks. Of course, you could always just attack the Kypchaks directly. Other than our allies the Romans they control the last settlements in our area of recruitment. :beam:

[deguerra]

Can you explain the Areas of Recruitment. I mean I know the general stuff, but how exactly does it work in BC, and what areas are there?

[Zim]

Right now, basically most faction can only recruit their faction units within their area of recruitment. Only way to find out what it is trial and error, though. There's no map of the areas yet, so only the developers know their exact boundaries. :sweatdrop: There are exceptions. Some units have special areas of recruitment (Seljuks can get special infantry in Khorasan, for example) and most of the Kypchak's cavalry can be recruited anyway (presumably because they are nomadic).

Crappy levies can be recruited anywhere, and I think what kind you can recruit depends on area (i.e. I noticed I could recruit Saracen Militia and those Huntsmen guys in many Abbasid territories, as opposed to the levies I can get in the Armenian AOR.

Far as I can tell, the Armenian area includes most of the area around Silicia, Much of Anatolia, runs a little into the Levant (Homs is our best castle, and I think I could recruit troops in those territories in the Southern Levant I ended up giving away to the KOJ. I strongly suspect Old Armenia as well will be in the AOR, maybe with some special unit (I hope). Most of the former Abbassid castles are worthless, and I only refrained from turning them into towns because I was blitzing them and needed the high public order to keep them from revolting.

In the future the BC team wants to do a more EB like AOR system, where you can recruit some local units if you take castles out of you area.

[Ramses II CP]

You're welcome to take the next reign Deguerra, just leave some Mongols for me. :yes:

Two notes: Unless EF comes forward with a different explanation I'm going to guess that the ERE declared war on us, betraying the alliance, because we held some of the cities they needed for their victory condition. With that in mind, either don't completely eliminate the Ayyubids or be prepared for war with the KoJ/Makuria if we're holding lands they need and we are the only nation on their borders.

As far as the Kypchaks, I would try to get the ERE into a war with them and otherwise leave 'em alone. The Seljuks are weak and the countries to their east are about to get Mongol-smacked. Contain the Kypchaks, hope they fight the ERE and leave you alone, and expand east against the Seljuks.

...but of course you're free to go about it a completely different way if you want, just watch out for allies betraying you if you wipe out the Ayyubids.

By the way, what happened to our reputation? Right through the floor, eh?

Not that it matters, there weren't any more alliances to collect, but still, rough diplomacy lies ahead.

:egypt:

[deguerra]

Righto. Just trying to get an idea of the family tree. Who dared assassinate our faction leader???

[Zim]

Ramses Sorry about the reputation thing. I kind of had to exterminate a lot of prisoners to move so quickly against the Abbasids. :sweatdrop:

deguerra The Abbasids assassins killed our faction leader, spurring me on to conquer about twice as much territory as I had planned (I initially had no plans to wipe them out, but after that I had to). :furious3: That's also when I started using assassins myself, but only to take out their's.

[Zim]

So, shall I just start doing the writeup for my reign or wait on the one for the last reign? :clown:

[Ferret]

uhhhhh my write up is there, can't you see it? :sweatdrop:

[Zim]

I don't see anything but my post and three by Ramses in the writeup thread. :sweatdrop:


uhhhhh my write up is there, can't you see it? :sweatdrop:

[deguerra]

hey guys. ive done 3 or 4 turns so far, but I'm afraid I can't continue. I've got too much on with uni at the moment, and with the other hotseats it's just too much. I'm very sorry for holding you guys up, but consider me out for now. I'll be following the write-ups though!

[Ramses II CP]

No worries DG, did you upload a save or should I just go from where Zim ended? It'll probably be a day or two before I can get much into it. :beam:

:egypt:

[deguerra]

nah go with Zim's. I really didn't do much of anything yet. Thanks

[Ramses II CP]

Just to provide an update, we're in a fun situation. As the KoJ gets gradually ground away we're going to inevitably end up back at war with the Ayyubids. The Kypchaks hold some of the cities we need for our victory condition, and many of the main castles of our area of recruitment, so war there is almost certain as well. Then, too, there are the Seljuks, who are weak and ready to topple, and form our eventual gateway to the Mongols if we can manage to get armies that far east.

I think for the moment I'm going to conduct an attack against the Seljuks, mostly to sack some profitable cities and slow the Kypchak advance, but in the long term I'm going to launch a military expedition via ship to strike the Kypchak heartlands, which are difficult for them to defend and should put some economic constraints on their advance. Hopefully the Kypchaks will go to war with the ERE first so we have a little help.

I'm very glad we picked Armenia, this position is quite interesting and we've got some tough battles ahead. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

[Ramses II CP]

Second update:

I'm about halfway through my reign and the Seljuks are all but finished. That, unfortunately, was the easy part. The Kypchaks jumped ahead of me and declared war, not unexpectedly, after I cut off their advance against the Seljuks at that fortress north of Baghdad. The Takavor captured the city east of there, and those two armies have been holding back constant Kypchak sieges. The ERE agreed to assist us at a high price, but they haven't actually entered the war yet.

Fortunately my end run with the army I sent around Constantinople via ship has sacked three of their prime port cities and castles, while the ships from that fleet are blockading the rest of the Kypchak ports. Their economy has to start struggling soon, hopefully, because in the formerly Abbasid lands we're holding the bridges and launching random forays to capture badly defended towns when our spies reveal them to be open. The Kypchaks have about eight full stacks in visible range, and at least that many more out of sight. It's difficult to reinforce the front with anything other than expensive mercenaries.

Also in the bad news category the ERE refuses to sell us Ani, which is one of the cities we need for our victory condition. After I capture some more Kypchak lands I'm going to make the ERE an offer they can't refuse and hopefully get Ani. We've taken Yerevan, which we also needed, but it's completely surrounded by huge, hostile Kypchak armies and there's no surety that I can hold as it's just a castle.

Oh, and I restarted our merchant armies by spamming merchants from every city with a merchant's guildhouse. We own the best resources from Constantinople to Antioch to Oman... and we can still barely pay our army upkeep. I expect to overtake the Kypchaks as the top dog any turn now.

Oh, and I declined a chance to make them our vassals early in the campaign. I tested it, and as expected it would've droppped about 200k florins in our laps immediately, resulting in a cakewalk for the remainder. Haven't seen or heard anything from the Mongols yet, but they should be soon.

Edit: Oh yeah, and the KoJ bent knee and became vassals of the Ayyubids, who are now reluctant to declare war on us while they're still fighting the Makurians in the south and we're allied to the KoJ. Lucked out there, after Acre fell I thought the KoJ was done. The Pope launched a crusade, but the army is just hanging around Ayyubid lands watching. We'll see what happens there, I might be able to trick the Ayyubids into going to war with us and losing their vassal if I can survive the Kypchak Horde.

:egypt:

[Ramses II CP]

I've got about 5 turns left. I just took Tblisi, the Kypchak capital, which was a citadel with cannon towers, and even though they have some stacks left I think the Kypchaks are broken. I'd vassalize them if I could, but even with releasing prisoners and occupying cities I can't get our reputation back up. I guess it doesn't help that I've continued to use those assassins Zim trained up, and they just don't seem to fail. :shrug:

We got the note about the Mongols sacking Beijing, but no sign of them yet. I guess it'll be a few more years, and even then they've got to go through the Kwaz to get to us. Or we could conquer the Kwaz!

Why not the world, come to think of it? :laugh4:

The ERE keeps getting annoyed with us, and it's costing me bribe money. I think it's because we're basically their only neighbor, even though they're still at war with the Ayyubids. I've decided I don't want to buy Ani off of them, because we'd be too close to the end of the game then.

If I can get rid of the Kypchaks the turns will pass a little more quickly and maybe we can float along to the Mongols without an ERE war. They have, oh, about 8 stacks west of our homelands. I've started training troops to hold them, hopefully west of Tarsus. We'll see.

:egypt:

[Ramses II CP]

Done, at last:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/Armenia1218w.zip

I had to make the Kypchaks our vassals in the end just to preseve my sanity. We took all the profitable territory they had from them, and as for all that extra cash, well, we have to give most of it to the ERE to keep them friendly anyway.

We're technically over 60 provinces, but the ERE won't sell us Ani and we aren't supposed to go to war with them. The Mongols will be arriving soon, so I've been trying to concentrate our best troops in the east. Unfortunately there is very little chance the Kwaz will accept an alliance, much less mutual military access, so we may have to wait for the Mongols to clear them away.

War may also be bubbling up from the Ghazni or Ayyubids. I've got our border with the ERE pretty heavily garrisoned, and the Ayyubids probably aren't really a threat, but if the Ghazni sweep in with a few stacks the east end of the empire will be threatened.

To put it in perspective, I took over a thousand screenshots. Somehow I have to cut that down to, at most, 100. Better 50. And still tell the story. :sweatdrop:

So, err, the empire is at peace for the moment. The next reign may mostly just have to wait for the Mongols to get around to us. Anyone up for it?

:egypt:

[Zim]

Good stuff. I can take the next turn if noone else wants to. Don't start posting the writeup yet! I promise I'll get mine up this weekend. Real life kept interfering over the week. :dizzy2:

[Ramses II CP]

Not to worry, I probably won't get started until KotR is over, one way or the other. Take your time. 1k screenshots remember. :laugh4:

:egypt: