EB Website galling

[Ibrahim]

this isn't meant to be scathing, just a lighthearted critique:

I've gone to the EB official website lately; it was very nice, with good unit info, and basic histories of many of the factions-until I got to Makedonia......why doesn't anyone have the guts to write a history about them?! they are just Makedonians.:inquisitive:

I know, they produced Philippos II, and Alexanderos III Megas, and their careers were Awesome, but still, they aren't scary (they're dead after all)-and you (the team) write good basic histories on all the other factions, and recognize the beauty of Baktrian coins (thought I was the only one who did around here~;) ), and there are many sources on Makedonia.

hope someone musters the guts-you'll do a great job, don't worry:balloon2: :cheerleader: (that's a hired cheerleader, not me) :balloon2: :balloon2:

[Watchman]

Yeah, but the 'net is also crawling with nasty beady-eyed Balkans pinko-nationalists with perspective issues. Heck, we've a few on these forums too... :sweatdrop:

In other words, nobody wants to touch that can of worms with the poverbial eleven-foot pole.

[Copperknickers]

And also they have EB2 and things to worry about more than website descriptions.

[Ibrahim]

I see...didn't know that factconcerning Makedonia-sorry:embarassed: . And what on earth are those balkan nationalist arguements your describing, between who and who, and what are their arguements?(greeks (I bet they are involeved) and?)

[Watchman]

Are you aware as to why the state called Former Yugoslavian Republic Of Macedonia (FYROM for short) has such an godawfully unwieldy name ? Because both their and Greek paleonationalists aren't about to let anyone else use the name Macedonia and the oh-so-damn-glorious associations with Alexander the Great...
:wall:
It's the damn Balkans. They have ultranationalist idiots like Finland has trees, ie. way too many. (And you can at least make paper for export out of the trees...)

[Ibrahim]

Your telling me that greeks are arguing with modern Macedonians about the name.... that's silly.... Ancient Makedonians were neither Greek or Slavic-so why argue? Ancient sources say that Makedonians were Barbarians, and that this one greek mercenary needed an interpretor to understand his Makedonian troops. And the Ancestors of modern Macedonians were mostly Slavic, judging from language-no way they were there earlier than 6th century AD.

again that's with respect to the two famous Makedonians; bet they'd laugh at the two, albeit feeling a bit flattered. Its Ironic that the very people who insulted the Makedonians as barbarians are now claiming them as there own....reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllly
silly and irrational, and fickle:no: :no: :shame:
now I'm not out to insult either side, but it's clear that they need not argue on it.:yes:

balloons to those who agree:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: x10 to the 10

[V.T. Marvin]

I agree. :yes:

I like both Greece and Macedonia (I recognize that country under its constitutional name despite the fact that my country does not), but the arguments between some of their nationalists (and governments) are ridiculous indeed. I believe that most Greeks and Macdonians either do not care or are annoyed by that frog-mice war as well. I wish...!:no:

Currently serious talks are taking place on a new "international" name for Macedonia (that would replace that preposterous FYROM). Hope that it will end up in some reasonable solution that would help to lower the tensions...:2thumbsup:

Hopefully we will see the day when a short story about Macedonian history could appear on the EB website without any fear...

[Timoleon]

It's the damn Balkans. They have ultranationalist idiots like Finland has trees, ie. way too many.
I think this comment is very insulting for the peoples of the Balkan countries! If you where aware of the history of the Balkans in the last two centuries, you would show a bit more understanding of the situation.


Your telling me that greeks are arguing with modern Macedonians about the name.... that's silly.... Ancient Makedonians were neither Greek or Slavic-so why argue? Ancient sources say that Makedonians were Barbarians, and that this one greek mercenary needed an interpretor to understand his Makedonian troops. And the Ancestors of modern Macedonians were mostly Slavic, judging from language-no way they were there earlier than 6th century AD.
You are right that ancient Makedonians couldn't have been Slavs but you are wrong about them being Barbarians. There are overwhelming evidence that they where Greek, although not as civilized southern Greeks (such as the Athenians).


I believe that most Greeks and Macedonians either do not care or are annoyed by that frog-mice war as well. I wish...!
Being a Greek (and not a nationalist one!), I can assure you that we both care and are annoyed by the whole situation.

All in all, the issue of the name and the identity of the state of FYROM is extremely complicated and has many political implications in the counties of Greece, Albania, Serbia and the Kosovo. I would need to write a huge post to explain it in detail.

I would suggest that the moderators of the forum should stop this thread before it becomes a "battlefield" between nationalist. EB is fun and we shouldn't mix fun with politics.

[cmacq]

don't fortget the albanians?

[pezhetairoi]

Then again, this forum isn't just about fun. If this forum was just about the game alone, it would probably not be as busy as it was.

Don't close this thread just yet. People on this forum have demonstrated the ability to argue civilly about such topics, because we don't happen to be the sort of Balkan nationalist Alexander-never-existed sort of people. Let's prove pcaravel wrong.

No offence meant to you by Watchman, pcaravel. He is a respected and veteran forumer and would undoubtedly know the correct rules of conduct. Take things easy. Opinions expressed here in the Org, as long as they are not personal attacks or insults, are after all opinions. It's a free world.

Just because someone mentions 'damn' doesn't mean he's trying to insult the Balkans. And you have to agree, these nationalist sorts are damn annoying, especially when they publish their bigoted views online. You haven't read, as we have, the rabidly anti-Alexander views put forth by some obnoxious Balkan (was he Greek or 'Macedonian' or Bulgarian or others, I can't remember) on some wiki site which was shared with the Org by some poster. IIRC, some of our own people had even tried to debate with him based on academia and incontrovertible fact.

If you had seen the sheer amount of wrong-headed, blind, immature and utterly irrational hatred and bigotry advanced on that debate as intellectual fact and argument, and the complete refusal to accept anything anyone said who didn't agree with him ('I am definitely correct so you are wrong, however you want to argue'), you'd understand why we say we need Balkan nationalists like Brazil needs coffee imports.

Or perhaps let's use a different word to prevent confusion: Balkan BIGOTS. Nationalism is a strong cohesive force that holds a country together and is not bad in itself. It's only when people take it to such extremes it becomes xenophobia/historiophobia/revisionism/irrationalism/terrorism that it goes too far.

There really are too many of them.

[anubis88]

It's the damn Balkans. They have ultranationalist idiots like Finland has trees, ie. way too many. (And you can at least make paper for export out of the trees...)

Agreed... I'm from slovenia, and i must completly agree with Watchman. Already in Slovenia we have a lot of ultranationalist, but the Souther you gou, the more there are:wall:

[Matinius Brutus]

It's the damn Balkans. They have ultranationalist idiots like Finland has trees, ie. way too many. (And you can at least make paper for export out of the trees...)

I am one from the Balkans and I couldn't agree more. But from another point of view everyone is right for themselves. I would understand Serbs not wanting to give Kososvo, and I can see why the Albanians in Kosovo would prefer to have their own country. And the Maks since they are a new country, are looking to find themselves somewhere in history and what is better than the creators of one of the largest Empires in the world. While Greece would not give up on the way they see things.

[Timoleon]

And you have to agree, these nationalist sorts are damn annoying, especially when they publish their bigoted views online. You haven't read, as we have, the rabidly anti-Alexander views put forth by some obnoxious Balkan (was he Greek or 'Macedonian' or Bulgarian or others, I can't remember) on some wiki site which was shared with the Org by some poster. IIRC, some of our own people had even tried to debate with him based on academia and incontrovertible fact.

Just because I personally know such persons and I really think they are annoying I suggested to close the thread.
I didn't mean that the members of this forum can't discuss thing politely and scientifically. I know they can because I've been lurking in this forum for quite a long time. But the last thing I wanted to have is a "Makedonia is Ours" thread.

My point is that the matter is purely political and that the actual ancient history has nothing to do with the modern situation in the Balkans.

[Obelics]

I discovered all this anger between fyrom and greece on youtube... every damned video, involving Alex, or ancient greece, or macedonia, is fulfilled with infinite wars of comments, same on every damned video involving Costantinople/Istambul, again infinite wars between greeks commenters and turkish ones... samethink on every damned video involving Hannibal... again war of comments between black-power people, and white-power people...

results:
i think this people make more damnages to theyr own country history than to the other one... infact i got so much disgusted, that i carefully avoid to watch a video of that kind... and every time i think to alex, or costantinople, or macedonia, my interest is lowered much, cause every opinion i make on that matter, i think there are huge armies of people poisoned by this kind of wars, and ready to be angry on the minimal thing you could say on the matter...

you cant even joke on the matter... people of that kind have no sense of humor...

anyway this kind of things not only happens for mac. and greece, but for example in sports, between a lot of nations...
when you are used to that comments, you start to perceive the nationalist behaviour, by just a single word, so you can accurately avoid it...

dont even talk of wikipedia and company...

[V.T. Marvin]

The last thing I wanted to have is a "Makedonia is Ours" thread.

My point is that the matter is purely political and that the actual ancient history has nothing to do with the modern situation in the Balkans.
I very much agree on that and I think that all who took part in this thread do as well. But let us simply lament on the sad and stupid fact that even our heroes form the EB team did not dared to write an introductory article on Macedonian history.

What is interesting on the Greco-Macedonian controversy is the fact, that it is not only a matter of some crazy teenagers who experience a deep identity crisis, but that the issue of Macedonia/F.Y.R.O.M. name is raised by the Hellenic Republic on the level of governments in the E.U., NATO, OSCE, etc. Not only this puts more fuel into the fire, strengthens those above-mentioned teenagers on BOTH sides, it also blocks a number of useful projects and sometimes even the inner workings of the involved organizations. I happen to know about that from inside. That is why I could not resist my comment in the post above that hopefully current state-name negotiations will help the things to calm down.

Following lines could be interpreted as anti-hellenic. That is not the intent. You have been warned!
Consider this: There is a bunch of countries in the U.N. that has the word "democratic" in their name. Democratic People´s Republic of Korea is a shining example. One can very easily argue that the DPRK´s regime has very little, if anything, in common with "true" democracy, that that boastful name is an insult to all really democratic countries, that DPRK is hardly even a "republic".
True, but once someone recognize that a state does exist, than he should not question the state´s name.

Now consider Macedonian Republic. It could be argued that it does not have much in common with historical Macedonia - neither in terms of geography nor in terms of demography. It is neither all of Macedonia (part is in Bulgaria, part belongs to Greece) nor its a republic of all Macedonians.
Maybe, but once someone recognize that a state does exist (and even Greece does), ... Well, you ´ve got the point...

And here is a logo that Alexander certainly DID NOT used (this time anti-Macedonian). You have been warned.
https://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee315/VTMarvin/ostatni/VMRO.jpg

BTW: I note with satisfaction that the EB Team rightly decided to put the largest stacks of bravest warriors to Mrogbonna, thus representing the fact that Czech people (Boii) have been throughout the history (and foreseeable future) the most freedom-loving, militarily powerful, and invincible people of Europe. Without being threat to their neighbors they always defended their homeland to the last man. If you think about it, Boii-Czechs far surpass all those Alexanders and the like...:viking:

[Tiberius Nero]

Wow, never knew how close "Macedonian" is to Russian, I could actually understand the legends on the logo just with my meagre Russian skillz.

Ok, seriously, someone close this please, its like watching an accident about to happen.

[Foot]

I agree, this is starting to head in a bad direction.

Bye bye.

Foot