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View Full Version : Spearmen -- how do they defend so well?


Dorkus
10-06-2002, 21:31
Asked this question in another thread and didn't get a question.

Anyhoo, I'm wondering how the heck spearmen of all sorts hold up so well when their stats are so underwhelming. Are their rank bonuses to defense as well as offense?
hrvojej
10-06-2002, 21:39
Yes, and even more so (I think its +1 to attack, +2 to defense for spears). Also, their defense ratings are not really undewhelming, I would say.
Dorkus
10-06-2002, 21:45
Holy cow!!!!

Plus 2 to defense per rank? So SAPs get +8 to defense if they can retain their formation!!!

Mother of god... no wonder they're so unkillable.
Grifman
10-06-2002, 21:54
Plus spearmen have all these long pointy sticks which tend to hurt when you are poked with them . . . http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Grifman
hrvojej
10-06-2002, 22:07
Errm, no, not +1/+2 *per rank* but for two ranks or something...... There is a thread on the exact values somewhere.
Ahh, here it is...... Check out longjohn's post. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001602.html


[This message has been edited by hrvojej (edited 10-06-2002).]
ElmarkOFear
10-07-2002, 00:38
For every one level increase in valour, there is a +2 morale, +1 attack, & +1 defense bonus. So at valour 4 a spear unit will have an increase of +8 for morale, +4 for attack, & +4 for defense, which are added to their base values. Plus spear units get a rank bonus to defense when in 3 rows or more up to a bonus of +2. Pikemen get a bonus of up to +3 since pikes are longer and another row can attack with the front row. That is why they hold out. They should not win against swords of equal valour, but as of now they do. Hopefully the patch will take care of this imbalance.
NARF
10-07-2002, 01:26
I LOVE YOU ELMARK!!

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What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby? Maybe we'll never know.
Itonami
10-07-2002, 02:13
Quote Originally posted by Grifman:
Plus spearmen have all these long pointy sticks which tend to hurt when you are poked with them . . . http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Grifman[/QUOTE]

Indeed
anymapkoku
10-07-2002, 03:46
How can you say an equal valor spear should not win against swords? I've said it once and I'll say it again, you can't compare a 32423423 florin unit to a 10 florin one, equal valor or not.
Dorkus
10-07-2002, 06:20
hrvo:

well, for example, feudal sergeants have a base defense value of -1, but they hold up amazingly well against AUM or Byz inf charges. That just doesn't make any sense, unless they're getting their cavalry bonuses against infnatry for some reason.

Thanks for the link.

Do you know if the bonus listed in the thread you pointed me to is PER RANK (even if it's capped at 2 ranks for a total +4 bonus for pikemen, as you suggested) or a flat bonus?

NEVER MIND, hehe. I read the wrong post. i see longjohn's post fine and clear now. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/redface.gif

Thanks again.

Oh, one thing -- I assume that these rank bonuses are NOT included in the attack and defense values in the unit stat file?
[This message has been edited by Dorkus (edited 10-07-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Dorkus (edited 10-07-2002).]
anymapkoku
10-07-2002, 07:02
The game designers can't know whether you're going to set it in 5 ranks or 1 or 234234 or whatever, so they decided not to include the rank bonus into the unit stats. That's why they call it a bonus, it's added onto the unit stats if the bonus applies.
ElmarkOFear
10-07-2002, 08:42
Yes Dorkus, you are right. The rank bonus is an added bonus only if you are in that many ranks. It is not included in the base stats like shields are.

NARF: UglyElmo passes his jug o' shine your way. Drink up and you will fall in love with just about anyone!! Elmo's "Secrets to dating 101". http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Major Robert Dump
10-07-2002, 17:18
Back off NARF, Elmo is mine.
ElmarkOFear
10-07-2002, 23:06
There's enough of Elmo to go around!! woohooo http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Kraellin
10-08-2002, 00:06
that's what we're afraid of, elm ;)

K.


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ElmarkOFear
10-08-2002, 00:38
Elmo takes pix of himself . . has to break out the wide angle lens . . zooms in close . . . oh! Oh! . .too close . . backs up a bit . . a bit more . . a bit more . . ahh much better. "Click!" hmmm . . funny . . . never heard a camera whine like that before . . . AAACK! . . . darn camera stopped working . . oh well Kra, I will send you photo once I get camera fixed . . 3rd one this week . . darn the bad luck!