Recruitment in Celtiberia

[Ower]

I would like to ask. Why arent there any celtic units recrutable in This region?
After all it shoud have people linked to the celts and is even a expansion for 2celtic factions (Aduei and Casse).

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

There are regional Iberian units available to the celtic factions in the province.

[Ower]

I know that, I am just curious why there are no celtic units? Why did the EB team decide to not have them there.

[stupac]

For lusotannan at least you can only get milites and caetrati. I think it is one of the most sparse provinces in iberia, though it is inland so the people would have been more poor mountain folk than the coastal tribes who could equip heavy infantry/calvary. I, like ower, though would infer also from the name that it would be more gallic inspired, but that's just based on inference, I could be totally wrong. Were a few gallic units intended to be in the region, or possibly some iberian/gallic hybrid units? Or does the name have nothing to do with their northern celtic brothers?

Edit: If I'm not mistaken, Iberian tribes were referred to as 'celtic,' having the same origin as the gallic tribes. Once again, I could be mistaken though.

[Sarcasm]

No, no, no. Celtiberians had nothing to do with 200 B.C Gauls. They were a much earlier migration, that probably established a Celtic aristocratic warrior-class over a larger Iberian stratus. In time the Celts would come to intermarry and adopt local customs, so that by the mod's time period, they were a hybrid culture (though not a Gaul/Iberian one).

You could call them demi-Celts, but they were no longer part of the major Celtic culture that occupied most of Europe then. There were however, Celts living in Iberia, in the Northwest mainly, that resembled the Britannic Celts or Aquitanians more.

Anyway, recruitment-wise, there should be a heavy regional infantrymen (there's concept art for it, even), that's specific to the area. You should also be able to get Curisi, light infantrymen and some scutari I think.

[stupac]

No, no, no. Celtiberians had nothing to do with 200 B.C Gauls. They were a much earlier migration, that probably established a Celtic aristocratic warrior-class over a larger Iberian stratus. In time the Celts would come to intermarry and adopt local customs, so that by the mod's time period, they were a hybrid culture (though not a Gaul/Iberian one).

You could call them demi-Celts, but they were no longer part of the major Celtic culture that occupied most of Europe then. There were however, Celts living in Iberia, in the Northwest mainly, that resembled the Britannic Celts or Aquitanians more.


Thanks for the clarification.


Anyway, recruitment-wise, there should be a heavy regional infantrymen (there's concept art for it, even), that's specific to the area. You should also be able to get Curisi, light infantrymen and some scutari I think.

Not according to recruitment viewer at least, only caetrati and milites, and of course the celtic lesser king.

[Sarcasm]

Well, gah. There's hopefully gonna be some updates on this front for 1.1.

[General Appo]

That´s strange, loading screen 31 shows a Celtiberian Heavy Infantryman, named a Dunaminaca, from C. 250 BC. Maybe he don´t show up until the Celtic reforms, or it´s just a bug.
HOLD ON!! The picture in Sarcasms sig is actually a picture of that Celtiberian Heavy Infantryman!! He´s not even Lusotannan.

[Ower]

It has defiinitly nothing to do with the reforms, I have the times of soldiers. And the recruitment viewer only shows 2 iberioan units in the region. And I know about the loading screen(saw it yesterday), so that is why I am curious.

[General Appo]

I´m curious why Sarcasm has a picture of a Celtiberian in his supposedly Lusotannan sig.

[Watchman]

Way I've been reading it, the Lusos were at least influenced by the Celtiberians. Anyways, AFAIK that unit is still WIP.

[Sarcasm]

I´m curious why Sarcasm has a picture of a Celtiberian in his supposedly Lusotannan sig.

Wow, am I gonna burn at the stake or what? It's the Lusotannan skin of the unit. Kinda like the Numidian nobles for Carthage.

An Eleutheroi sig would be fine too, but this is the only one that exists.

[Tellos Athenaios]

And it isn't even a Celtiberian Heavy Infantry guy. Oh, no. He's the Hunky Firefighter. :beam: AFAIK this unit is NOT in EB 1.0; you gotta wait till 1.1.

[Ower]

Will that be the only Celtiberian unit? Or will you have do more?

[Hax]

Mwahahahaha!
MWAHAHAHA! *gurgle*

[Spendios]

I´m curious why Sarcasm has a picture of a Celtiberian in his supposedly Lusotannan sig.

The Holy Inquisition is here :laugh4:

[Hax]

Nobody expects the --

[Watchman]

'Twas the one with the suspenders.

[Sarcasm]

Will that be the only Celtiberian unit? Or will you have do more?
There's another celtiberian in the works, let's see if it makes it.

[Theodotos I]

That´s strange, loading screen 31 shows a Celtiberian Heavy Infantryman, named a Dunaminaca, from C. 250 BC. Maybe he don´t show up until the Celtic reforms, or it´s just a bug.

I don't know, but I've been told: the Dunaminaca will not be in until EB 1.1. Too bad, but I guess the best is yet ahead! :yes:

[overweightninja]

You guys have seen this (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/5/12/18/f_dunaminacasm_b421a2c.jpg&srv=img27) right?
Cheers

[General Appo]

Holy crap, it looks like a warrior with mixed Celtic and Iberian influences, who would have expected that!? No seriously, it looks really nice, I look forward to hopefully using that in 1.1.

[Bactron]

HOLD ON!! The picture in Sarcasms sig is actually a picture of that Celtiberian Heavy Infantryman!! He´s not even Lusotannan.

I would just like to throw my two cents in - regarding grouping of people of Iberia. I have just read Rome' Enemies (4) Spanish Armies from Osprey by Rafael Treviňo Martinez, and according to what is written in this book: the Lusitannians were in fact a branch of Celtiberians. The Iberians were living along the southern and the eastern coast of Iberia, while Celt-Iberians were living in central part of Iberia and along its western (west-central) coast, and Celts (or the most celtisized people) were living in the northern Iberia in the montainous region.

Let me quote from that book (on page 3 and 4 there is written following) -

"During the 3rd century BC, on the eve of the Second Punic War, we may categorise the Hispanic peoples in three major cultural and ethnic groups, as a result of long-standing mutual interaction and external influence during the First Iron Age. The group living in the north of Spain was formed by peoples having Indo-European roots, and largely "Celticised". The peoples, who developed a hill-top culture, are identified in the ancient sources as the Gallaeci, Cantabri and Astures. They appear to have been divided into multitude of smaller tribal communities, whose territory extended little beyond the fortified hill which they inhabited.........................................The central area of Spain, known today as the Meseta or Plateau, comprising the provinces of Salamanca, Caceres, Badajoz and Valladolid and Portugal, was inhabited by peoples who are known today by the conventional name of "Celt-Iberians" in obvious reference to a fusion of Celtic and Iberian cultures. Their great tribes were the Lusitani, the Vettones, the Vaccei, the Carpetani, the Arevaci and the Pellendones. Each of these tribes had its own distinct personality.......................................
The third major grouping, the civilisation of the Iberians, has proved to be one of the most controversial subjects in the study of Spanish protohistory. Some have denied their existence as a true cultural entity; others, with equal vigour, have advanced them as one of the most evolved of the peoples who have formed the mosaic of the Hispanic race. From the 7th century BC they came under the influences of the Phoenicians, the Greeks, the Egyptians, and all the other Mediterranean cultures. The basic nucleus was formed by the population of the territories associated earlier with the mythical kingdom of Tartessos, and comprising modern Andalusia and the Mediterranean coast, extending up to the southern coasts of France......................"

It's really nice reading I bought it recently (also with similar publication on Gallic and British Celts), its very thin book with great infos and nice illustrations.

[overweightninja]

Holy crap, it looks like a warrior with mixed Celtic and Iberian influences, who would have expected that!? No seriously, it looks really nice, I look forward to hopefully using that in 1.1.

Hopefully yes, its in the xmas preview stickied on the main page so thats promising I suppose.

@ Bactron thanks for the reference, just taking a look at ordering one or two of those books now. I hate to go OT but can you recommend any good retailers for them in/able to ship to the UK? I'm looking at about £10 per book atm on amazon.co.uk which is a bit rich for 48 pages :laugh4:

Cheers

[Bactron]

I hate to go OT but can you recommend any good retailers for them in/able to ship to the UK? I'm looking at about £10 per book atm on amazon.co.uk which is a bit rich for 48 pages :laugh4:
Cheers

Hi overweightninja (cool name btw, are you a Chris Farley fan, by any chance?), I am sorry but I can't recommend UK based retailer, I live in Czech Republic so I ordered it through a czech war/miniatures shipping company. If I recount the price from czech crowns on pounds I paid something like 13 pounds for one book. It's definitely expensive, as you said a high price for such thin publication. But I think that it is worth it. In these books there is like 8 or 7 color drawings of warriors, plus there are even some photos (of vasses, sculptures etc.) and also there are some pictures with maps and of course the text is very informative.

The only drawback is the high price. If it was cheaper I would buy probably whole serie. There are same publications for germanics, dacians, persians etc. You can check them all on this link

http://search.ospreypublishing.com/search?site=titles&q=Rome%27s+enemies&getfields=*&filter=0&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=titles&btnG.x=22&btnG.y=8

[Sarcasm]

I wouldn't put my faith in osprey. They're more of a nice introduction than any sort of proper reference for anything.

To call Lusitanians a branch of the Celtiberians is wrong in my view, and an oversimplification - remember that the ancient authors themselves do not refer to them as Celtiberians. Other terms such as Iberians and Gallaeci are also major major oversimplifications.

[Bactron]

To call Lusitanians a branch of the Celtiberians is wrong in my view, and an oversimplification - remember that the ancient authors themselves do not refer to them as Celtiberians. Other terms such as Iberians and Gallaeci are also major major oversimplifications.

Well "branch of Celtiberians" was my wording, not of Osprey's. So I think that you are unrightly harsh on them while you should be harsh on me.

Here is again what I quoted from the book about Celt-Iberians.

"The central area of Spain, known today as the Meseta or Plateau, comprising the provinces of Salamanca, Caceres, Badajoz and Valladolid and Portugal, was inhabited by peoples who are known today by the conventional name of "Celt-Iberians" in obvious reference to a fusion of Celtic and Iberian cultures. Their great tribes were the Lusitani, the Vettones, the Vaccei, the Carpetani, the Arevaci and the Pellendones. Each of these tribes had its own distinct personality...."

This really doesn't seem as oversimplification (I will give you that that I had indeed oversimplify that by choosing that rather dull word branch) But as you can see in Osprey there is clearly written that we know those people TODAY by the conventional name of Celt-Iberians, and then they also continue with stating that each of these tribes had its own distinct personality and continue with a brief description of some of those named tribes.

[Sarcasm]

I have the book too, and a quite a few more. I guess what I was trying to say is that it's quality varies widely. However, my opinion stands that they're a very rough introduction to subjects, and little use as reference due to their oversimplification.

[Bactron]

Well maybe you have a point. I have read only two publications from Osprey, and both are only forty something pages long, so I guess that there is a necessary need for some level of simplifying things.

I think that it is a very good rundup of important informations. Albeit it should probably be seen as a basic introduction.


BTW: Europa Barbarorum really awake a huge hunger in me for history. Before encountered this wonderfull mod I have read a history book only when it was required from school (with the exeption of some historic novels, which I always read with passion - for example Taiko or Musashi by Eigi Yoshikawa)
But just recently inspired by EB I have read - Campaigns of Alexander the Great by Arrianos, Hannibal by Frantisek Knotek, Augustus and his times by Werner Eck and Etruscians by Werner Keller.

[overweightninja]

Hi overweightninja (cool name btw, are you a Chris Farley fan, by any chance?), I am sorry but I can't recommend UK based retailer, I live in Czech Republic so I ordered it through a czech war/miniatures shipping company. If I recount the price from czech crowns on pounds I paid something like 13 pounds for one book. It's definitely expensive, as you said a high price for such thin publication. But I think that it is worth it. In these books there is like 8 or 7 color drawings of warriors, plus there are even some photos (of vasses, sculptures etc.) and also there are some pictures with maps and of course the text is very informative.

The only drawback is the high price. If it was cheaper I would buy probably whole serie. There are same publications for germanics, dacians, persians etc. You can check them all on this link

http://search.ospreypublishing.com/search?site=titles&q=Rome%27s+enemies&getfields=*&filter=0&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=titles&btnG.x=22&btnG.y=8

Chris Farley? No not really heh....
After a bit more digging I actually found several retailers via the "Used & New" option on amazon (which I usually shy away from) offering the Osprey books from three or four pounds, much more acceptable IMHO and I noticed a lot of them were US based companies offering international shipping so perhaps that will help if you're looking to add to your collection, or for anyone else who's interested.
As an example....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0850454735/ref=dp_olp_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1204669672&sr=8-2
Thanks for the help Bactron, Cheers all