US Census Update

[KukriKhan]

Have any of my fellow Americans received one of these letters/packets? (Envelope reads: YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW

"US American Community Survey", with a 28-page questionnaire to return, requiring:

Full name, address, telephone number, age, date of birth, education, taxes, income, marital status, date of marriage, how many times married, military service dates, number of bathrooms, number of bedrooms, housing market value, annual gas, electric, water, sewage, trash, and transportation costs, weekly, monthly & annual number of hours worked, where worked, for whom (and address), whether pay or receive child support, physical, mental or emotional disabilities, languages spoken, type of mortgage, race, ethnicity, place of birth, national ancestry...

So, after being shocked and amazed that my government wants all this info - more than even the military ever wanted for a security clearance, I might add - I LOOKED UP (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/13/usc_sec_13_00000221----000-.html) what the penalty was for not answering this thing that came addressed "Resident" to an incorrect address, and found it's $100 for not answering at all; $500 for answering falsely.

So I ditched it, and will pay the fine. I figure that's a $100 investment in my right to privacy from a gov't that can't hang onto personal data any better than my neighborhood grocery store.

Why do I hate freedom?

What would you do?

Do any non-US countries have such survey requirements?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

If it's run by the government, I'd probably fill it out. They can find out anyways if they want to, and I personally don't care what they know as long as they're responsible with the information. Having them know the number of bedrooms and bathrooms in your house seems to be overkill, but it's really insignificant to personal privacy.

On the other hand, if the documents fell into the hands of someone else, like they have in the past (in America and the UK, to my knowledge), I would be extremely angry with the officials who allowed it to happen.

[Ice]

Have any of my fellow Americans received one of these letters/packets? (Envelope reads: YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW

"US American Community Survey", with a 28-page questionnaire to return, requiring:

Full name, address, telephone number, age, date of birth, education, taxes, income, marital status, date of marriage, how many times married, military service dates, number of bathrooms, number of bedrooms, housing market value, annual gas, electric, water, sewage, trash, and transportation costs, weekly, monthly & annual number of hours worked, where worked, for whom (and address), whether pay or receive child support, physical, mental or emotional disabilities, languages spoken, type of mortgage, race, ethnicity, place of birth, national ancestry...

So, after being shocked and amazed that my government wants all this info - more than even the military ever wanted for a security clearance, I might add - I LOOKED UP (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/13/usc_sec_13_00000221----000-.html) what the penalty was for not answering this thing that came addressed "Resident" to an incorrect address, and found it's $100 for not answering at all; $500 for answering falsely.

So I ditched it, and will pay the fine. I figure that's a $100 investment in my right to privacy from a gov't that can't hang onto personal data any better than my neighborhood grocery store.

Why do I hate freedom?

What would you do?

Do any non-US countries have such survey requirements?

Remember, big brother is watching you and he knows best.

[Husar]

I see this similar to EMFM.
Most of that info is only of statistical use anyway.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Have any of my fellow Americans received one of these letters/packets? (Envelope reads: YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW

"US American Community Survey", with a 28-page questionnaire to return, requiring:

Full name, address, telephone number, age, date of birth, education, taxes, income, marital status, date of marriage, how many times married, military service dates, number of bathrooms, number of bedrooms, housing market value, annual gas, electric, water, sewage, trash, and transportation costs, weekly, monthly & annual number of hours worked, where worked, for whom (and address), whether pay or receive child support, physical, mental or emotional disabilities, languages spoken, type of mortgage, race, ethnicity, place of birth, national ancestry...

So, after being shocked and amazed that my government wants all this info - more than even the military ever wanted for a security clearance, I might add - I LOOKED UP (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/13/usc_sec_13_00000221----000-.html) what the penalty was for not answering this thing that came addressed "Resident" to an incorrect address, and found it's $100 for not answering at all; $500 for answering falsely.

So I ditched it, and will pay the fine. I figure that's a $100 investment in my right to privacy from a gov't that can't hang onto personal data any better than my neighborhood grocery store.

Why do I hate freedom?

What would you do?

Do any non-US countries have such survey requirements?


DO NOT fill it out. I tear up jury duty notices. How dare they force us to do anything. If they asked nicely, I'd be more likely to do it. Same thing with jury duty.

Whenever anyone makes demands or threatens me I go ballistic.

[CountArach]

“Marge, you can’t kick me out of the house! you’ll cause a miscount on the census! a miscount!" [/The Simpsons]

[KukriKhan]

Yeah. I've completed my military obligation, serve on juries when selected, haul my butt to the polls in every election, pay my taxes accurately and on-time, register my property purchases, weapons, births and deaths, with the appropriate level of government. I feel I've adequately paid my dues to live in this land of the free and home of the brave.

You guys are right, every bit of info requested is available from some level of government. Why should I give the info, in one neat wrapped-up package, to an entity that hasn't shown sufficient security precautions - only to have it compiled in a personally-identifiable database copied to a DVD that some bureaucrat accidentally leaves sitting at his neighborhood Starbucks on his way to work?

From my reading, I've learned they no longer ask for your religion or social security number. LoL. Like an identity thief cares that I worship the Flying Macaroni Monster.

[Ronin]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/vincent_pt/me_lj_08.jpg

now Mr. KukriKhan...you know you will comply and give the required information to our benevolent government....It is inevitable.

[CrossLOPER]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/vincent_pt/me_lj_08.jpg

now Mr. KukriKhan...you know you will comply and give the required information to our benevolent government....It is inevitable.
https://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o273/CrossL/8DCat.jpg

[seireikhaan]

Egh. Good job, Kukri. That's utterly ridiculous to require all that info of people when they don't even do a half decent job making sure its safe and secure. And not requiring religion, but all the vital stuff instead? Insane. And interestingly...I didn't think it was time for the cencus. Your area growing pretty fast, Kukri?

[Gregoshi]

Looks like we're developing concensus here.

[seireikhaan]

Looks like we're developing concensus here.
:whip:

[Crazed Rabbit]

Looks like we're developing concensus here.

I thought we were agreeing on the cons of the census.

Good for you, Kukri.

CR

[Fragony]

I can't see any reason why the government would need that information I would ignore it.

[Tribesman]

Well I can see the merit in the objections , but there is another side to the coin .
The government likes information , it uses information for many things , including allocating its spending .
There was a prime example of this just down the road , a nice little town was finally getting a by-pass , thus freeing the town from the constant traffic jam .
Now of course such a development project requires money , (from both the government and EU in this case) , their descisions on allocting the money and designing the by-pass to fit the requirements of the town were based on the ....census:yes: ...lots of people in the town hadn't filled in the census , after all why should they give the government all this information eh ?
Them people in the town really moaned like hell when the government allocated the money , planned and started the development ...but it left the town buggered because it only took account of the population (and predicted future expansion) and their transport requirements according to the census .:idea2:
Turned out the real population was more than 3 times the population according to the census , and just as many were working in towns and cities to the south as to the North (they had only planned for one link to the by-pass since that was all the population merited and put it out of the north of town as most of those on the census worked to the north) .

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I imagine it's mostly so politicians can skew statistics to make their talking points.

[Gregoshi]

I thought we were agreeing on the cons of the census.

That's what I meant. ~;)


I can't see any reason why the government would need that information...
The government is finally coming to their census and we complain... :laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

The Census isn't actually due out until sometime in 2010. You'd think that with all the info they want it might just take that long to process, but according to Kukri's link in the first post the bill was passed early in 2006.

Which means it's something different entirely. :hide:

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Tribesman - why didn't the feds work with the local governments? Stuff like population of a town could be found out with a quick email or even a browse of the town's website (mine has it).

[woad&fangs]

According to the local news 230 military IDs and a machine that can make more were stolen yesterday from an army reserve base near Milwaukee.

I think you made the right call Kukri.:yes:

[Vladimir]

According to the local news 230 military IDs and a machine that can make more were stolen yesterday from an army reserve base near Milwaukee.

I think you made the right call Kukri.:yes:

I bet you they'll still have to wait hours for card.

[Redleg]

Census has changed over time. I was sent one once about 10 years ago, and never filled it out. It seems the actual penelty is rarely applied.

I have filled them out before with just my name and who my dependents were without all the other information filled out. Like you Kukri there is some information I don't volunteer to the government. However you should fill out the part about: Full name, address, telephone number, age, date of birth, marital status, date of marriage, and children. Everything else I have never filled out, and havent seen a fine yet.

Major Census is every ten years, however the government does run other census in between to calculate population growth, and other such governmental things.

The government probably should look at the information they are wanting to gather versus levying a fine on people who refuse to devulge all their personal data to the government.

Hell I have even been given letters stating my information was stolen when the VA lost a computer or two. Doesnt exactly give one confidence that their information is being secured by the government.

[TinCow]

FYI, for those Americans complaining about the census being mandatory: it's a requirement imposed in the original draft of the Constitution. Specifically, Article 1, Section 2:


Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

The census is required every 10 years, because otherwise there would be no way to determine how many seats each State should get in the House of Representatives. That's why you get fined if you don't respond.

Of course, most information beyond name, date of birth, and place of residence is not necessary for this purpose, so the contents of the current census go beyond the bounds of the Constitutional requirement. Just remember that a basic, minimum census of some kind is required in order for our governmental system to work.

[Ironside]

I have filled them out before with just my name and who my dependents were without all the other information filled out. Like you Kukri there is some information I don't volunteer to the government. However you should fill out the part about: Full name, address, telephone number, age, date of birth, marital status, date of marriage, and children. Everything else I have never filled out, and havent seen a fine yet.


What I don't get is that isn't like almost all that info already known by the state? :inquisitive:

And calculating things like population growth through census nowadays? Were you have to be in a register to well like officially exist? :inquisitive:

[TinCow]

What I don't get is that isn't like almost all that info already known by the state? :inquisitive:

Not necessarily. There is no requirement for anyone to inform the state when they move. For voting purposes, it does not matter where you were born, etc., only where you live right now. It is entirely possible for a person to move from one state to another without ever registering the move with any government. This changes the population distribution of the various states, which has an impact on the number of Representatives they have in Congress.

In addition, there are so many levels of local, state, and federal governance that a lot of information simply cannot be gathered together easily in one central source. Things like old birth certificates are still only recorded on paper, rather than digitally, thus making it essentially impossible for the federal government to get a hold of them all. While drivers license information is probably accessible by the states, that doesn't take into account the large number of people who do not hold drivers licenses. As absurd as it may sound, it's probably easier to do a national poll every 10 years than to surmount the legal and bureaucratic hurdles that would be required to get this information from existing sources.

[Caius]

Do any non-US countries have such survey requirements?
Our Gov. doesnt think we exist.

[Kralizec]

Of course, most information beyond name, date of birth, and place of residence is not necessary for this purpose, so the contents of the current census go beyond the bounds of the Constitutional requirement. Just remember that a basic, minimum census of some kind is required in order for our governmental system to work.

Well, how else are you going to determine the most effective electoral boundaries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymander)?

About the Netherlands, it's been tried a couple of times here since WWII but they're not well received by the public. The last one was in the late 70'ties I believe, accompanied with massive protests and thousends of forms were returned with false information.

[lars573]

^People having fun with their cencus forms might explain why some many people in Britian are offically recorded by the crown as being Jedi's. :laugh4: